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Flat earthers won't use Google earth now!

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pax
Flat earthers won't use Google earth now!

Metro: Google Maps has made a big change that's going to anger Flat Earthers.
https://metro.co.uk/2018/08/03/google-maps-made-big-change-going-anger-f...
Google has quietly rolled out a change to Google Maps, shifting what happens when you zoom all the way out.

Instead of displaying a flat ‘Mercator’ projection of the world, the tech giant has rounded it out into a sphere. You can spin and rotate the big blue marble any way you want.

Which is great for most of us, but not great if you happen to be one of those people that believes the world is flat.

DISCUSS!

nibs
Flat Earthers are disgusting people (or fools)

I'm of the opinion that most of them are trolls who like to entertain themselves by misinforming the gullible and getting a rise out of the rest of us. And then of course there are the sad few who actually get sucked into believing it.

My recent study of psychology has taught me that there are people who have zero ability to think for themselves. They are open vessels, sitting targets for the creeps who will take advantage of them.

logos
nibs wrote:
nibs wrote:

My recent study of psychology has taught me that there are people who have zero ability to think for themselves. They are open vessels, sitting targets for the creeps who will take advantage of them.

That sounds like people who accept the official view of things without investigating their validity.

nibs
logos wrote:
logos wrote:

That sounds like people who accept the official view of things without investigating their validity.

Do you think the earth is flat?

logos
nibs wrote:
nibs wrote:

I'm of the opinion that most of them are trolls who like to entertain themselves by misinforming the gullible and getting a rise out of the rest of us. And then of course there are the sad few who actually get sucked into believing it.

Not half as sad as the masses who can't prove their own views, or worse, are unwilling to examine how they came to hold those views.

nibs
logos wrote:
logos wrote:

Not half as sad as the masses who can't prove their own views, or worse, are unwilling to examine how they came to hold those views.

Do you think that people who believe the earth is flat have proven their case?

Do you think that the evidence that the earth is an oblate spheroid is wrong?

pax
and then....

those that are into both hollow and flat earth?!?!? next thing you know it'll be 4 elephants and a big fuck off turtle! :P

zoopenhoff
I find it fascinating.

I recently had to quit a flat Earth group because I couldn't figure out the maths to prove that gravity is strong enough to stop things flying off a 4000-mile radius sphere spinning at 1000mph.

I think the best argument, without being able to fly into space and look personally, is simply that orbits, tides, seasons etc, wouldn't work the way they do on a flat earth. But I realised I don't understand them well enough to prove it.

It's good to be open-minded, but not so much it makes you retarded.

thisuser
Weak reasoning
zoopenhoff wrote:

I recently had to quit a flat Earth group because I couldn't figure out the maths to prove that gravity is strong enough to stop things flying off a 4000-mile radius sphere spinning at 1000mph.
I think the best argument, without being able to fly into space and look personally, is simply that orbits, tides, seasons etc, wouldn't work the way they do on a flat earth. But I realised I don't understand them well enough to prove it.
It's good to be open-minded, but not so much it makes you retarded.

So you went in trying to prove the globe earth model and failed (I wonder why its so hard to prove bullshit...hmm) and that was your motivation to quit the group. Do you also give up after trying to take a shit but it gets stuck halfway out your ass? I would hope not.
Digression aside... your reasoning for "best argument" resembles a fortress made out of toilet paper. Let it rain.

Flying out into "outer space" and seeing for yourself would only show so much (see perspective limitations) and you could still misinterpert the observations if you are preloaded with erroneous data (globe model). Most if not all people that believe in the globe earth model ASSUME at least some part of that model to be true and thereby leaving the realm of reality and making a cozy habitat in religious belief. None of those believers will have proven every facet of it and will overlook the holes in their belief in order to maintain congruency with the rest of the herd. Conformity 101.

Orbits.. I presume you mean of cellestial bodies. Well, the stars (and our familiar constellations) are a constant pattern than repeats every year like CLOCKwork, without deviation. If the big bang were true and the universe expanding out wards then we would not see the same constellations for this long... same sky patterns that were seen thousands of years ago. Well, then you mean orbits of the "planets"? or as they were originally called in the older biblical texts "wandering stars" because of their deviation from all the other stars, each of those wandering stars on it's "own" unique orbit. Well now I don't see any reason why patterns of lights in the sky can't happen on a flat plane model the same as they would on a globe model. All these phenomenon occur ABOVE us, regardless of the model you try to squeeze your brain into. What doesn't work is your thinking, or lack thereof, because you are leaning on the crutch of a lie that you were fed from youth onwards. It is going to be hard but you have to try to look at the cold hard facts and do some soul searching to find your way out of this. What you are experiencing is cognitive dissonance... trying to hold two contradictory thoughts in the same mind at the same time... leads to blindness of one or the other. Let go of all preconceived notions and test reality and measure it with the use of your own natural senses. Ever notice that the sun and moon are the same size? Otherwise we wouldnt have eclipses. Pretty convenient to have that happen with the wacky astronomical distances and sizes of everything in the heliocentric globe earth model and a result of a random big bang event leaving us with the perfect phenomenon of eclipses year after year.

Tides...the explanation you might have in your mind would again be leaning on assumptions. "gravity is a force and the moon's gravity pulls the waters up" This leans on the shape of the earth assumed to be a sphere and that gravity is a REAL force. On that topic, gravity...which is it? - bending of conceptual space time or mass attracting mass? Modern "science" (so called) says the former is true and latter is not but we all are told to believe that the latter is true as well. The claimed shape by the way has no valid scientific validity to back it up. (Maybe CGI of satellites is proof? haha just kidding, it is not)

Seasons, that's a good one. See, the sun and its orbit above the earth-plane are responsible for the seasons. The sun has an orbit that centers at the north pole and so it orbits around that locus point with its orbital radius changing over time. The pattern follows that when the sun's orbital radius is short then it orbits over the "Northern hemisphere" (bad term that assumes earth shape to be sphere but you get what I'm referring to) and this is when there is summer in that part of the Earth, meanwhile the sun is farther awar from the "Southern hemisphere" and they experience winter there. Conversely when the sun's orbital radius is long then North gets winter (sun further away and seen lower in the sky from land observers perspective) and South gets summer as the sun travels over that part of the Earth. That pattern changes every year. Very simple and doesn't require any fancy gymnastics axis tilt phoo-phoo mixed with illusary forces to explain. That one would be easily pieced together from simple observations (however modern society gets in the way of such efforts).

Being open-minded doesn't make you retared. Being closed-minded does. Retarded literally means "slowed down".
Be always open-minded but selective of what you take from the catch of your mind's "fishing net". Collect the good, discard the bad. Measure and evaluate what you catch...otherwise you might eat a bad fish and become terminally ill.

zoopenhoff
thisuser wrote:
thisuser wrote:

So you went in trying to prove the globe earth model and failed (I wonder why its so hard to prove bullshit...hmm) and that was your motivation to quit the group. Do you also give up after trying to take a shit but it gets stuck halfway out your ass? I would hope not.

Yeah so basically I had to revise my A-Level physics to figure it out.

You don't understand my point.

Mechanics, gravity, mass, these are all just part of a MODEL - slightly more than just a theory - that usefully predicts the way the universe works.

A related part of that model predicts how electricity and semi-conductors etc works. If we didn't have the model accurate enough, we wouldn't be able to make iPhones etc.

We have a model that predicts tides, orbits, etc. I have an app that shows me when the ISS or any other satellite is going to be overhead.

Most of your points just show you've misunderstood the model. No, the constellations shouldn't be changing any more often than they do, etc

IF ANY flat-earther gave us an equally, or ideally more accurate model, that would be useful. But they can't. Apparently the Sun is being carried by a drone or something. Just by measuring the energy coming off the sun you can be pretty sure it's a giant nuclear reactor millions of miles away. etc

The point is that the globe earth model fits together. Yours doesn't.

thisuser
Whoa. you guys are still comatose.

Earth is not a sphere, not at least by the claimed dimensions. If it is a sphere it is MUUUUCH bigger. How is that so? No measurable curvature. Even lasers at many miles distance can't find this "sphere surface curvature". Sure there are dips and valleys and hills and so forth, but not any sign of the great elusive curve that validates the globe earth model.
"But, thisuser, objects disappear over the horizon as they move away from an observer. That PROOOVES there is a curve."
No, silly derpling, that proves that there is an angular limit to light travelling over a distance and demonstrates how our eyeballs sense this. If you just use a telescope you can bring up that "gone beyond the curve" object in full view, even seing the bottom of the object. No curvature obstructing your view. Only perspective and our eyeballs playing an illusion on us and the powers that be capitalizing on that. Neat trick, don't ya think?
Most cattle, I mean people, wouldn't clue into that. Sadly there is much disinfo on every "side"... though we are all on the same side... top side of the earth-coin-plane and some of us are royaly fucking the rest of us.

Hollow and flat earth models could work.....just calls for a bigger container to hold all that upper and lower domain. If outer space as we "know" it is a lie, then we have a limitless unknown (in theory at least) of what contains all of our reality and beyond. Why can't it be an infinite plane with both an upper and lower domain that suprasses the plane we are so fondly attached to?

Deepest humans have dug downwards is about 8km.... some Russia crew some decades ago. Their machinery couldn't handle the heat at that point and began to fail. So much for digging a hole to China....

Oh and another nail in the globe earth model coffin:
Can't have molten iron core AND have an earth-wide magnetic field that eminates from the core due to Curie temperature above which certain materials lose their permanent magnetic properties, to be replaced by induced magnetism. Womp womp waahhmp. What's inducing the magnetism if it's not coming from the core? Ooof. Bad time to be an earth scientist fresh out of the poopdollar-administration_takeover-university system.
What's gravity and what causes it? Oof. We don't know! Even the HIGHpriest of space science NDGT says "I don't know". hahaha... him and his oblate spheroid. PEAR shaped huh? too funny. and people just gobble that shit up like its mana from heaven. For they have eyes yet do not see and ears yet do not hear. Woe. Woe. Woe.

nibs
Your arrogance reveals that you're lying

You don't believe a word you're saying. Therefore you are a troll. I won't tolerate creeps who get off on ridiculing people. You are therefore cordially invited to fuck off.

thisuser
Apologies for your ignorance

FWIW, I whole-heartedly believe every word I said and stand by it. Sure I pointed out a weak/silly behaviour and shamed the person for it to start my reply but then continued dropping knowledge and perspective that I didn't see anyone else drop.
My arrogance was fueled by alcohol when I wrote my previous reply but I spoke the truth as best as I know it. And I still stand by every word I wrote.
You seem to hold quite an opinion on who/what I am. Clearly you held these preconceived notions of what "flat earthers" represent before I even said anything. Prejudice, which shows itself through this knee-jerk reply of yours. The traits of a closed mind. How about you challenge any one of the points that I brought up instead of just giving a hand-wave-dismissal and demonizing a light-bearer? I cordially invite you to stop and think for a moment.

euxconcen
fringe physics

Reading that bit above about "if the earth was a sphere, it would be much larger" reminded me of a book by Margaret Wertheim, "Physics on the Fringe: Smoke Rings, Circlons, and Alternative Theories of Everything". Wertheim is a good historian of science (I recommend her early book on the history of space, including cyberspace) but this book on fringe science is odd one out for a mainstream science commentator. Even so, she treats it fairly and critically. The part that sticks out is the guy she features whose science seems so enigmatic but well thought out to her. Ever hear of Jim Carter? He claims that we do not fall to the earth, it rises up to us. As his theory tells it, a falling pencil doesn't go anywhere; rather, the earth rises up to meet it. He theorizes that gravity does not exist and in its place he proposes "constantly expanding matter".

Wild thought.

Physics on the Fringe: Smoke Rings, Circlons, and Alternative Theories of Everything

One question: who benefits from pulling the wool over our eyes about flat vs sphere? Why must a flat earth view be predicated on conspiracy? It just doesn't make sense. The captains of the oil industry not wanting anybody to get cheap fuel, I can understand; but a flat earth? Who really cares?

zoopenhoff
euxconcen wrote:
euxconcen wrote:

Ever hear of Jim Carter? He claims that we do not fall to the earth, it rises up to us. As his theory tells it, a falling pencil doesn't go anywhere; rather, the earth rises up to meet it. He theorizes that gravity does not exist and in its place he proposes "constantly expanding matter".
Wild thought.
Physics on the Fringe: Smoke Rings, Circlons, and Alternative Theories of Everything

Holy shit. I swear to god, when I took Iboga, the spirit of the plant showed me the theory of CIRCLONS.

I think that means it's real. If I saw it on psychedelics, and he's gotten it from somewhere, that's real.

"According to Carter, the universe is composed of what he calls "circlons", ring-like structures like "atomic LEGO blocks, interlocking rings that snap together to form all the elements".[3] He proposes that instead of the Big Bang theory, the universe began when two circlons combined and mated, subdividing to make up all the matter in the universe. His theory is mechanistic, and does not involve action at a distance. He explains gravity as due to the constant expansion of the universe."

This is exactly what I saw.

First I saw an O, and it's exactly like the "smoke rings" he describes. It was sort of static, but also sort of infinitely expanding, with an AAAAAUUUUUUUUUUMMMMMM sound, and when I recognised it as an "a" symbol depicting the first letter of the alphabet, it changed... there were two of them, on a collision course, and when they hit, they made a 'BUH' sound for B. When I recognised B the lesson continued. There was one and it broke... C... Cuh.

I saw then this was the alphabet of which the universe was constructed, I think there is a whole alphabet of maybe 33 or 36 symbols, depicting motion, replication, combinations. These are like sub-sub-sub-atomic particles.

I've also gotten the information that all matter is created at the centre of living stars and planets. In fact, that is how Matter, Energy, Space and Time are created. If you think about it, that would create an effect that looks like gravity.

I had put this down to an interesting trip... but if someone else gets it, that's really made my day, thanks for mentioning it. I believe it should be possible to take Iboga or other plant-based psychedelics and ask to be shown this and other lessons.

Z

pax
LOL

flat earth is totally, utterly and provably fucking nonsense...
And you believe that tripping out your cock you'll get answers?
don't get me wrong... i've have more modern chemistry and natural chemistry than most ijn my time.... I have had fun!..lol and the big things I learned about it really quickly? It's always an INNER journey... always
But getting out your tits and thinking thoughts that reinforce the belief you are ready had is a folly.
To suggest that a psychedelic experience trumps cold hard facts and science backed by multiple metric fuck tonnes of evidence take a level of willful ignorance and arrogance that I personally do not possess.

#

zoopenhoff
pax wrote:
pax wrote:

flat earth is totally, utterly and provably fucking nonsense...
And you believe that tripping out your cock you'll get answers?
don't get me wrong... i've have more modern chemistry and natural chemistry than most ijn my time.... I have had fun!..lol and the big things I learned about it really quickly? It's always an INNER journey... always
But getting out your tits and thinking thoughts that reinforce the belief you are ready had is a folly.
To suggest that a psychedelic experience trumps cold hard facts and science backed by multiple metric fuck tonnes of evidence take a level of willful ignorance and arrogance that I personally do not possess.
#

you seem to have confused me with the flat earther.

If you look at the greatest scientists, they are all mystics. Many of them took psychedelics to find inspiration.

Of course psychedelics are no substitute for science, but they can certainly guide scientific research and always have.

I have directly viewed chemical processes in my body that I needed to correct, while on psychedelics, and used them to help me find the medicines I needed to fix the chemistry. It worked, which is all the proof I need.

pax
ah

fair do's however no matter what i have read about psychedelic experiences i have NEVER let that person imagery taint my own experience.
let it happen and flow and every now and then, if needed, remind yourself you are in control.
The only insights i have had have been about myself and my relationship to things.
The basic tenet of know thyself and to do so explore yourself and psychedelics, if the person can handle them are a great way of doing it.
I kinda laugh at the people nowadays with their microdosing bullshit. when I got for it.. I go for it with no half measures allowed!
I ALWAYS make sure the people I journey with and close and trusted and experienced... which they are as it's always the saem 2-3 people.
Last time was pretty good with a combo is MDMA, LSD and DMT.
Method... take the acid, wait 15 minutes and snort up a couple of lines of MDMA then give it about an hour.... get into the groove then start on DMT in bouts with one at a time having a blast.... repeat the turns until DMT is gone.
Then it's thinking time, talking time and smoking weed time.
Sometimes we go on a wander into Holyrood park... an oasis of countryside within my city.. sometimes we stay in... sometimes we wander into another room just to have alone time then go back into the group...
Due to this we are a very tight knit closely bonded friends with a greater understanding of ourselves and each other.
in my experience then for self knowledge it's the dogs bollocks and a good thing if done in the right way with the right people.

zoopenhoff
Love Edinburgh, I've been to

Love Edinburgh, I've been to the festival a couple of times.

Wow that's an awesome combo. I'm tempted to try LSD and Iboga.

I think there are different realms you can explore, with gateways between them. You have to really push to get into the existential stuff.

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