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Understanding Islam
05-12-2008, 09:58 PM,
#1
Understanding Islam
Hi fellow ConCeners. Islam being fairly misreprested and misunderstood, I'm making a thread about various Islamic concept, principles, teachings, and philosophy as an educational excercise for those interested in learning more about it. The purpose of this thread is not to preach, but to educate and answer questions people may have... provided I have the ability (knowledge and understanding) to answer them. The focus is Islam itself as opposed to Islamic history. I'll be posting random articles every now and other are welcome to participate as well. I will not be editing content of posted material to respect it's origniality, but I may comment on what I feel are fallacies or leaps in logic.

Greetings In Islam
Quote:Muslims all over the world use the Islamic form of greeting, "Assalamu alaikum", which means peace be to you.
The very wording helps generate a friendly and relaxed atmosphere. It is also common in its shorter and longer forms to all Muslim communities wherever they happen to be. Thus, when two Muslims meet who are total strangers to each other, the moment they use this greeting, they immediately feel that they have common grounds, even when they do not speak each other's languages.


The Islamic greeting has different versions, the shortest of which is the one we have already mentioned. The rule in Islam is that when we are offered a greeting, we return it with a better one, or with its equal at least. God orders in the Qur'an:
"When a greeting is offered you, answer it with an even better greeting, or (at least) with its like. God keeps count of all things."
[Surah an-Nur; 4: 86]


The better greeting and reply are illustrated in the following Hadith. Umar (radiAllahu anhu) reports that he was riding with Abu Bakr (radiAllahu anhu) on one mount. When they passed by people, Abu Bakr (radiAllahu anhu) greeted them saying: 'Assalamu alaikum' and they replied: 'Wa alaikum assalam wa rahmatu Allah.' Or he may greet them saying: 'Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatu Allah,' for which their reply was: 'Wa alaikum assalam wa rahmatu Allah wa barakatuh.'
Abu Bakr (radiAllahu anhu) commented: "Today, people have gained much more than us."
[Sahih al-Bukhari in Al-Adab Al-Mufrad]


We note that every time Abu Bakr (radiAllahu anhu) offered a greeting, its reply was the same with an addition. The first one was the short form of the greeting of peace. The reply stated: 'Wa alaikum assalam wa rahmatu Allah.' This means: 'And to you be peace together with God's mercy.' Thus, the reply adds a prayer that the person who offered us a greeting should be blessed with God's mercy, both in this life and in the life to come.
When the person who starts the greeting includes in it this same prayer for mercy to the one being accosted, the latter replies with yet another addition, 'wa barakatuh,' which adds a wish for Allah's blessing to the one who took advantage and offered us a friendly greeting. Abu Bakr (radiAllahu anhu's) comment at the end of the Hadith shows that he was pleased with the fact that people always replied to his greeting with a better one.


These are the normal form of greetings mostly used in Muslim communities. Rarely does a greeting go beyond these. It is reported that a man from the Yemen visited Abdullah ibn Abbas (radiAllahu anhu) and greeted him with the full greeting 'Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatu Allah wa barakatuh,' but added something extra. Ibn Abbas told him: 'A greeting of peace ends with the wish for God's blessings.' This means that Ibn Abbas thought that such addition is unnecessary.
However, Kharijah ibn Zaid, a scholar of very high standing who belonged to the generation that followed the Prophet's companions, i.e. the tabieen, used to write when he addressed the caliph: 'Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatu Allah wa barakatuh wa maghfiratuh wa tayyib salawatih.'


The added last phrases express a prayer that the addressee will also have Allah's forgiveness and special blessings. Kharijah would not have added these phrases if he had the slightest doubt about such addition being appropriate. His father was distinguished among the Prophet's companions for his scholarship. When we have two reputable scholars expressing opposite views, we say that one of them was aware of something the other did not know. Perhaps Kharijah was aware that when addressing a person of eminence, the use of additional phrases would be in order.


Another Hadith that speaks of the importance of the wording of the Islamic greeting quotes the Prophet as saying:
'The Jews do not envy you for anything more than they do for the greeting of peace and saying Aameen.' This Hadith stresses the special distinction given to the Islamic greeting.


The Jews the Prophet refers to here are the ones with profound knowledge, such as the well- versed rabbis. They are the ones to appreciate the significance of the Islamic greeting, assalamu alaikum.
Aameen is a word which we say when someone addresses a prayer to God. It signifies a request made to God to answer his prayer. This makes the prayer a collective one, with all those who are present joining their fellow Muslim in an appeal to God on behalf of the one who is saying that prayer. But why would the Jews be envious of our greeting?


The word 'Salam', which means peace, is also a name of Allah. Using it in our greeting is a constant reminder of the special relation between a believer and Allah.


We have already mentioned that the Prophet has encouraged us to use the Islamic greeting often, and with all people. But how important is it to greet others?
To answer this question we mention a Hadith reported by Abu Hurairah (radiAllahu anhu) who quotes the Prophet as saying: 'A Muslim has a right against his fellow Muslim in six ways.' Asked what were these, the Prophet said:
'(1)When you meet him, greet him;
(2) if he invites you, accept his invitation;
(3) if he seeks your advice, give him an honest and sincere advice;
(4) if he sneezes and praises God, bless him;
(5) if he falls ill, visit him; and
(6) if he dies, attend his funeral.'
[Sahih al-Bukhari and Muslim]


The Hadith is clear in making it a duty of a Muslim to offer a greeting to his fellow-Muslim when they meet. The one who takes the initiative is in a better position. Although offering a greeting is a sunnah, which means that it is highly recommended, returning a greeting is obligatory. The other five aspects also help to cement relations within the Muslim community. All of them fall within the category of Sunnah, except for giving an honest advice, which is obligatory. A person who is asked for advice commits a sin if he deliberately and knowingly gives the wrong advice. To do so is dishonest, and dishonesty is forbidden in Islam.
http://www.geocities.com/mutmainaa/tafakku...m_greeting.html
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05-12-2008, 10:18 PM,
#2
Understanding Islam
As a Messianic Christian I find that Muslims set a far better example of love for their neighbors than traditional Christians do. It's the second commandment, and the first one is to love God. Muslims certainly do love Allah. And they are in a far better position to accept Jesus as the Messiah than the Church built on the false "Apostle" Paul, who wiped out, among other things, God's Torah which stated that usury was forbidden. As a result, the entire world is staring up Gordon Gekko's nostrils, who happens to be a Pharisee named Rothschild.

itsallahoax
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05-13-2008, 08:02 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-13-2008, 08:11 AM by lovelyk.)
#3
Understanding Islam
Quote:Church built on the false "Apostle" Paul

<span style="color:#33CC00">Ex-Pastor Abdul Ahad Jara
======================================

Abdul Ahad Jara is an ex Pastor who while doing a PHD in pauline theology left christianity and converted to islam.

According to the research of Abdul Ahad Jara, Paul (who never was an apostle, and on whose lies and blasphemies today's christianity is founded upon) was the nephew of Herod.

Mr. Ahad's lectures can be downloaded from

http://www.svis.info/Recordings/Abdul-Ahad/
1. ModestoVisit01.mp3 [An intro and summary]
2. From Isa to Islam [series]

<span style="color:#33CC00">G.S. Lawrence "Dissipation of Darkness"
=======================================

According to G.S. Lawrence's family history, Herod Agrippa (with the help of Hiram Abuid (Hiram Abiff) and Moab Levi) founded "mysterious force" which evolved into Templars, Masonry and Illuminati.

(See: http://anonymouse.org/cgi-bin/anon-www.cgi...ge5.tripod.com)


<span style="color:#FFCC00">After reading G.S. lawrence and Hearing the pastor, you will find the following Very interesting..


<span style="color:#33CC00">The Mesnevi and the Acts of the Adepts
by RUMI, tr. by James W. Redhouse [1881]



III. The Jewish King, Persecutor of the Christians
http://www.sacred-texts.com/isl/mes/mes18.htm

EXCERPTS:

A certain Jewish King, in savage, brutal scenes,
From hate of Jesus, persecuted Nazarenes.
’Twas Jesu's age, when he the Gospel first did teach;
In Jesus, Moses, and in Moses, Jesus preach.

He had a Vazīr, brigandlike for craft and force.
In knavish stratagems he had no peer; of course.
He whispered to the King: "These Christians, as in hives,
All keep their faith a mystery, to save their lives.
To kill them thus is profitless. Give breathing-time,
Religion can't be smelt out just like musk or thyme.

The King, with grimace fierce: "What have we then to do?
What remedy proposest thou to make them rue?
I will not leave alive one Christian in the land,
Whose faith is shown to all, or in his bosom banned."

Then drive me forth; away from thee in exile sent;
And they'll receive me, under feint of sorrow bent.
'In secret,' I'll pretend, 'a Christian I'm at heart;
Call God to witness how my faith has worked my hurt.

This age the age of Jesus is; O men, give ear!
His doctrine take to heart; nought else have you to fear."

The Vazīr having laid this plot before the King,
All shame and scruple vanished; ’twas a perfect thing.

The Christians soon with one accord accepted him,
In multitudes they round him flocked, all meek and prim.
The Gospel's holy words, the prayer, the cord, he'd preach;
The mysteries of all of these to them he'd teach.

To outward view a guide to sanctity was he;
In very truth, a trap and fowler's whistle; see.
Of such effect his wiles, disciples were deceived;
From Jesu's teaching fell, and in this cheat believed.

Meek virtue was not what they sought to gain the most;
Of him they learned to ferret out new sins, and boast.

A gen’ral favourite was he; all loved him well;
50 Christ's vicar called they him; as who the truth could tell.

That Vazīr seemed a pastor of the truth, in sham;
As one who bitter aloes mixed in sweet plum jam.

The Vazīr's talk was all: "Be diligent in pray’r."
His acts proclaimed aloud: "Of duty never care."

His purpose all the time was fraud and gross deceit;
He pondered naught but wiles, to compass their defeat.
By secret message, with the king he held converse.
The king to him fair gratulations sent, diverse.

Twelve volumes thus were writ with fraudulent research,
By that Vazīr, the hidden foe of Jesu's church.

To them, now, he replied: "Your prayer ’s of no avail.
My counsel take and ponder. Naught else shall prevail.
If I'm a trusted man, my word is not a lie,
E’en though I'd say that black is white, or earth is sky.

They still insisted: "Vazīr, that we'll not deny,
But our remonstrance is a truly piteous cry.

But while I live divulge not what to thee I've told,
Keep secret till my death this charge thou hast to hold.

Behold this scroll; take, study it; thyself instruct,
’Tis Jesu's doctrine pure; from this His Church construct."

He gave to each a volume, writ from end to end;
No two alike; each different, and hard to blend

The Vazīr now delayed another forty days;
Then slew himself,—set free his soul from earth's affrays. 350
Salem Kirban quotes Weishaupt gloating over his successes in a letter to Illuminatus Cato:

The most admirable thing of all is that great Protestant and reformed theologians [Lutherans and Calvinists] who belong to our Order really believe they see in it the true and genuine mind of the Christian religion. Oh man, what can not you be brought to believe?

These people swell our numbers and fill our treasury; get busy and make these people nibble at our bait.. .but do not tell them our secrets. They must be made to believe that the low degree that they have reached is the highest
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05-14-2008, 10:53 PM,
#4
Understanding Islam
Err... thanks for the post Lovely K. I'll check it out, even though it sounds a bit preachy.
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05-14-2008, 10:54 PM,
#5
Understanding Islam
Quote:As a Messianic Christian I find that Muslims set a far better example of love for their neighbors than traditional Christians do. It's the second commandment, and the first one is to love God. Muslims certainly do love Allah. And they are in a far better position to accept Jesus as the Messiah than the Church built on the false "Apostle" Paul, who wiped out, among other things, God's Torah which stated that usury was forbidden. As a result, the entire world is staring up Gordon Gekko's nostrils, who happens to be a Pharisee named Rothschild.

itsallahoax
Don't be hard on your fellow Christians brother. Most muslims are equally hypocritical jackasses in my humble opinion.
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05-14-2008, 11:30 PM,
#6
Understanding Islam
Most christians are too. The most basic law 'thou shalt not kill' is broken in most family christian houses every day.
However, living based on the words and actions of the prophet is better than having no guidelines at all.
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05-15-2008, 03:36 AM,
#7
Understanding Islam
I will defend Paul.

The Apostle Paul who was Crucified upside down for his love of Jesus Christ and the truth that was given unto him by the Lord.

"Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that hath loved another hath fulfilled the law". Romans 13 : 8

"Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath showed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. And changed the glory of the uncorruptable God into an image made like to corruptable man" Romans 1 : 19-23

"For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. For whether we live we live unto the Lord; and wether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived he might be Lord both of the dead and living" . Romans 14: 7-9
&Is not my word like... a HAMMER that breaketh the rock in pieces&? Jeremiah 23:29
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05-15-2008, 04:43 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-15-2008, 04:45 AM by jack.)
#8
Understanding Islam
Quote:Most christians are too. The most basic law 'thou shalt not kill' is broken in most family christian houses every day.
...
How so ??? :confused: Killing what ? - bugs, or maybe you mean eating meat. I don't understand.


I'm so tired of bashing groups - "they are bad, they are stupid" on & on & on. Too many innocent people are being caught in the cross fire.



shZ, please post some more "on topic" relevant informative info, before another thread turns into judgment, hate, blame, accusations and name calling. (not that anyone on this thread has done this yet. I just see it coming, it almost always does)

** - btw, I always thought it was pronounced sheeZ, like - geez mom, do I have too, or - geez, that's foolish.
&Alice laughed, &There's no use trying,& she said: &one can't believe impossible things.& &I daresay you haven't had much practice,& said the Queen. &When I was your age I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.&
- Lewis Carroll

&Things are seldom as they seem ... Skim milk masquerades as cream.&
- Gilbert and Sullivan (Pinafore)

At NASA, it really is rocket science, and the decision makers really are rocket scientists.
But a body of research that is getting more and more attention points to the ways that smart people working collectively can be dumber than the sum of their parts. .. Irwin Janis? &Groupthink:& is a mode of thinking that people engage in when they are deeply involved in a cohesive in-group, when the members' striving for unanimity override realistic appraisals ? It is the triumph of concurrence over good sense, and authority over expertise.&
-John Schwartz & Matthew L. Wade
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05-18-2008, 04:44 AM,
#9
Understanding Islam
Quote:shZ, please post some more "on topic" relevant informative info, before another thread turns into judgment, hate, blame, accusations and name calling. (not that anyone on this thread has done this yet. I just see it coming, it almost always does)
I will, once I find the time and something worth posting (that's hopefully interesting) :wink:.
Quote:** - btw, I always thought it was pronounced sheeZ, like - geez mom, do I have too, or - geez, that's foolish.
I think someone already nailed it :tongue:
Quote:even though i know your full name, and the essence behind your display name..... I like to pronounce it shiz! :grin:
i noticed woken once accidentally spelled it that way, made me chuckle.... cause it just works!
kinda sounds nice to say.... everyone should try it.... shizzzzzzz! :tongue:
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05-18-2008, 02:48 PM,
#10
Understanding Islam
Quote:
Quote:Most christians are too. The most basic law 'thou shalt not kill' is broken in most family christian houses every day.
...
How so ??? :confused: Killing what ? - bugs, or maybe you mean eating meat. I don't understand.


I'm so tired of bashing groups - "they are bad, they are stupid" on & on & on. Too many innocent people are being caught in the cross fire.
You guessed right and I don't see how you don't understand it. Yes, killing bugs and eating meat.
- Do not kill means do not kill and not do not kill humans.

Of course we could wonder how the same God who commanded "do not kill" commanded also:

Quote:Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)



Kill Witches

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)



Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)



Kill Fortunetellers

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)



Death for Hitting Dad

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)



Death for Cursing Parents

1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)



Death for Adultery

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)



Death for Fornication

A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)



Death to Followers of Other Religions

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)



Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)



Kill False Prophets

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)



Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)



Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)



Kill Followers of Other Religions.

1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)



2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)



Death for Blasphemy

One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)



Kill False Prophets

1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)



2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)



Infidels and Gays Should Die

So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)



Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle

For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)



Kill People for Working on the Sabbath

The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)





2) God's Murders for Stupid Reasons:



Kill Brats

From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)



God Kills the Curious

And he smote of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of Jehovah, he smote of the people seventy men, `and' fifty thousand men; and the people mourned, because Jehovah had smitten the people with a great slaughter. And the men of Beth-shemesh said, Who is able to stand before Jehovah, this holy God? and to whom shall he go up from us? (1Samuel 6:19-20 ASV)



Killed by a Lion

Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, "Strike me!" But the man refused to strike the prophet. Then the prophet told him, "Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me." And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him. (1 Kings 20:35-36 NLT)



Killing the Good Samaritan

The ark of God was placed on a new cart and taken away from the house of Abinadab on the hill. Uzzah and Ahio, sons of Abinadab guided the cart, with Ahio walking before it, while David and all the Israelites made merry before the Lord with all their strength, with singing and with citharas, harps, tambourines, sistrums, and cymbals.

When they came to the threshing floor of Nodan, Uzzah reached out his hand to the ark of God to steady it, for the oxen were making it tip. But the Lord was angry with Uzzah; God struck him on that spot, and he died there before God. (2 Samuel 6:3-7 NAB)

evilbible.com

Oh yeah, let's not talk about christianty. Ok. I agree.
on topic
Let's talk about Islam. shZ, I wonder what's your take on this, since muslims generaly agree with the first five books of the bible and consider Islam as restoration of Abrahamic faith? Most of those quotes are from there. How do you cope with this?
One day Chuang Tzu and a friend were walking by a river. &Look at the fish
swimming about,& said Chuang Tzu, &They are really enjoying themselves.&

&You are not a fish,& replied the friend, &So you can't truly know that they
are enjoying themselves.&

&You are not me,& said Chuang Tzu. &So how do you know that I do not
know that the fish are enjoying themselves?&
Reply
05-18-2008, 07:37 PM,
#11
Understanding Islam
Im not shZ lol but this would be my answer. We believe that the bible has been changed throughout history, so even though the message is understood by the Muslims, the little details like those do not apply to us.

Ill leave the rest to shZ.
[Image: Palestinian_Dawn_by_Palestinian_Pride.jpg]
Reply
05-18-2008, 07:38 PM,
#12
Understanding Islam
so by that logic, killing gastro bacteria by drinking water is also a sin?

:biggrin:

anyway, back to Islam.
Reply
05-18-2008, 08:16 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-18-2008, 08:18 PM by jack.)
#13
Understanding Islam
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:Most christians are too. The most basic law 'thou shalt not kill' is broken in most family christian houses every day.
...
How so ??? :confused: Killing what ? - bugs, or maybe you mean eating meat. I don't understand.


I'm so tired of bashing groups - "they are bad, they are stupid" on & on & on. Too many innocent people are being caught in the cross fire.
You guessed right and I don't see how you don't understand it. Yes, killing bugs and eating meat.
- Do not kill means do not kill and not do not kill humans.

Of course we could wonder how the same God who commanded "do not kill" commanded also:
.....

only 2 are from NT, both Paul not Jesus. Neither commands people to kill.

I some major issues with OT. I do not think that they should even be bound together as one book.

btw, I don't kill bugs. Yet, some insects are a bit of a nuisances and health threat. - Like mosquitoes, for example (come to think about it, I do kill these -tho not daily) they also multiply into extremely high populations. Can you imagine if there were even more mosquitoes - ill and itchy
However, I do eat meat and like it. Yum

I am also tired of hearing that this bad. I don't feel it is wrong to eat meat, I do however think it is wrong to hunt for sport without eating it.
Agree or not - I don't care. I've already been called a carcass eating carnivore, and vampire (among other things) and remain unaffected.


Quote:Oh yeah, let's not talk about christianty. Ok. I agree.
yes please, back on topic
&Alice laughed, &There's no use trying,& she said: &one can't believe impossible things.& &I daresay you haven't had much practice,& said the Queen. &When I was your age I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.&
- Lewis Carroll

&Things are seldom as they seem ... Skim milk masquerades as cream.&
- Gilbert and Sullivan (Pinafore)

At NASA, it really is rocket science, and the decision makers really are rocket scientists.
But a body of research that is getting more and more attention points to the ways that smart people working collectively can be dumber than the sum of their parts. .. Irwin Janis? &Groupthink:& is a mode of thinking that people engage in when they are deeply involved in a cohesive in-group, when the members' striving for unanimity override realistic appraisals ? It is the triumph of concurrence over good sense, and authority over expertise.&
-John Schwartz & Matthew L. Wade
Reply
05-20-2008, 11:10 AM,
#14
Understanding Islam
Quote:Im not shZ lol but this would be my answer. We believe that the bible has been changed throughout history, so even though the message is understood by the Muslims, the little details like those do not apply to us.

Ill leave the rest to shZ.
That's pretty much correct from an Islamic perspective but I'll try to get to your post (hopefully the whole thing), at a later time as I'm a little burned out. Those are good and legitimate questions. It'll take some time to meanigfully address as they're kind of expansive. Oh and marko, you were right about psychoactive chemicals... sad shortcut.
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shZ - Minimal Tech Session v1.3 / The Journey to Here
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Reply
05-20-2008, 12:25 PM,
#15
Understanding Islam
"Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him, he has put him to grief"

Does God kill?

God was in full control at the Cross of Calvary, the LORD put to death his only begotten Son, Jesus was not afraid of the lashes, he was not afraid of being nailed to a Cross, he was not afraid of being mocked and insulted by the crowds, he wasnt afraid of dying on THAT CROSS, He was afraid of the LORD, yea he was afraid of the Father, the one who puts the FEAR of GOD into men, the one of Awesome terror, the Creator Himself, thats who killed Jesus, the LORD crushed him, and it pleased the LORD to do it. Jesus was sweating blood he was so afraid as the Crushing of his soul began in the Garden while he was still living, ever known a man to sweat blood? well thats the power of the LORD. And He killed His own Son when He hung on that Cross, God unleashed ALL his Fury and WRATH on His own Son, all that which was due on us as humans, JESUS took, HE took the punishment, swallowed it all! so that WE could LIVE, GOD would have KILLED us all, if Jesus hadnt taken the blow. YOU who have NO comprehension of what that means, you are in grave danger if you decide to rebel against Supreme Diety, to question His divine motives, His ultimate authority.
For the LORD says;

"As I live" Says the LORD "I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked should turn and live, Turn Ye Turn Ye for why should Ye die"

Who cannot see how just and merciful the LORD is?
&Is not my word like... a HAMMER that breaketh the rock in pieces&? Jeremiah 23:29
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