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Sacred Earth
10-25-2008, 12:50 AM,
#31
Sacred Earth
Quote:
Quote:It is sticking in your mind... "Deliverance" country... but aren't resources poor there?
Been stuck in my mind for years, since I decided that I hated having a boss, the cash wasn't worth the headache. I even had a plan before a baby showed up and scared me out it. That's why your post intrigued me enough to respond.

LOL, Deliverance - don't believe it ("It ain't necessarily so") we used that film like a rumor to scare city peeps off. There are some unusual folks for sure - it is very true that they don't like/trust outsiders. They're not scary and mutated though, just a bunch poor people, mostly descendants of Scots-Irish, Germans/Prussians and Italians.

resources -
enough, used to be plentiful, before the carpetbaggers showed up. The problem there is water, the energy companies have poisoned it through strip mining coal "MTR" Greedy bastards could pay men to dig it the environmentally friendly, old fashioned way, but this MTR method makes a BIG profit.

It's a tragedy, down right criminal !!!
Those mountains are beautiful, full of wildlife, yet slowly disappearing.

before mining - http://www.appvoices.org/index.php?/gallery/category/C6/ :)
after - http://www.appvoices.org/index.php?/gallery/category/C2/ :(

Greed destroys souls!
Unite The Many, defeat the few.

Revolution is for the love of your people, culture, knowledge, wisdom, spirit, and peace. Not Greed!
Soul Rebel Native Son


http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=277...enous&hl=en
Reply
10-26-2008, 06:43 PM,
#32
Sacred Earth
Quote:
Quote:resources -
enough, used to be plentiful, before the carpetbaggers showed up. The problem there is water, the energy companies have poisoned it through strip mining coal "MTR" Greedy bastards could pay men to dig it the environmentally friendly, old fashioned way, but this MTR method makes a BIG profit.

It's a tragedy, down right criminal !!!
Those mountains are beautiful, full of wildlife, yet slowly disappearing.

before mining - http://www.appvoices.org/index.php?/gallery/category/C6/ :)
after - http://www.appvoices.org/index.php?/gallery/category/C2/ :(

Greed destroys souls!

Mexica, did you check out the destruction shown from the links ??

it's quite a shame, they clear cut, then blow the whole top off of the mountain, filling in the valleys below with debris, this creates a dam for slurry/toxic sludge ponds (lakes) the byproduct of coal washing.
In Ky a sludge pond owned by Massey Energy broke through an old underground mine and the burst out. All 306 million gallons or 1.16 billion liters of toxic waste (the Exxon Valdez spill was only 10.8 million) spilled into the Tug Fork River, then into Wolf Creek and Coldwater Fork, killing the aquatic life and contaminated the residents water supply with arsenic, mercury, copper, lead, chromium, cyanide, barium, -- the list just keeps on going .....

the aftermath -

[Image: MartinCountyNastySpill.jpg]
pretty, huh

Martin County Coal, Co., a subsidiary of Massey is responsible for the spill, they argued in court that the event was “an act of God.”


Quote:More than 7 percent of Appalachian forests have been cut down and more than 1,200 miles of streams across the region have been buried or polluted between 1985 and 2001.
800+ square miles of mountains are estimated to be already destroyed. (this is equal to a one-quarter mile wide swath of destruction from New York to San Francisco – it is also significantly underestimated) if it continues unabated, this will cause a projected loss of more than 1.4 million acres by the end of the decade.
&Alice laughed, &There's no use trying,& she said: &one can't believe impossible things.& &I daresay you haven't had much practice,& said the Queen. &When I was your age I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.&
- Lewis Carroll

&Things are seldom as they seem ... Skim milk masquerades as cream.&
- Gilbert and Sullivan (Pinafore)

At NASA, it really is rocket science, and the decision makers really are rocket scientists.
But a body of research that is getting more and more attention points to the ways that smart people working collectively can be dumber than the sum of their parts. .. Irwin Janis? &Groupthink:& is a mode of thinking that people engage in when they are deeply involved in a cohesive in-group, when the members' striving for unanimity override realistic appraisals ? It is the triumph of concurrence over good sense, and authority over expertise.&
-John Schwartz & Matthew L. Wade
Reply
10-26-2008, 10:59 PM,
#33
Sacred Earth
Quote:they argued in court that the event was “an act of God.”
Holy shit.

I suppose it also an act of God when you shoot someone with a gun: you only pull the trigger - it's an act of God that the cartridge fires and propels the bullet.

The world would be a better place without lawyers.
Reply
10-27-2008, 01:07 AM,
#34
Sacred Earth
The Mountain Top Removal is funded in part by Wells Fargo and Citi Bank. Jack, they are getting closer to where I am with this stuff. In the Smokies we have Champion Paper company (makes maps), we laugh when we see tourists rafting or fishing in it.


All due respect JazzRoc, in reality the land owner (at least here) can tell you that you can put a place to live like Jack's picture but it ain't likely to happen. 1 - Most of us that own land do what we need ourselves. You've gotten family farms mixed with corporate farms. With most farmers you'd probably be shot. 2 - The county government would I'm sure ask one to move and possibly fine the land owner. 3 - DHS would immediately take any kids one has. 4 - What happens when the land owner dies or fails to pay taxes? 5- Government land, get real, you can't even ride a horse through it unless you pick up and bag the shit, for that matter even tie it to a tree.


Jack, don't tell them we're not like deliverance lol, it keeps people away.


At best we have to change the system, it is just not real to think we can just drop out. It's not going away. We're fortunate, my wife and I grow most of what we eat, from vegetables to fruit to meat. We're slowly converting to solar and looking at a few other alternatives but facts are real. One must make money to pay the taxes, buy the stuff we can't produce, and live. Nobody is 100%, even if they aren't producing, they are dependant upon someone who does. As for growing, jack is correct, with the small amount of rainfall, one is limited what one can do. That is just nature.

We have to change the system both economic and expecially eco wise. Dropping out is not an option. Though if my wife would, I would move to another country, I think this one is screwed.
Reply
10-27-2008, 02:54 AM, (This post was last modified: 10-27-2008, 03:50 AM by jack.)
#35
Sacred Earth
JazzRoc Wrote:Holy shit.
that's what I thought too.
Quote:The world would be a better place without lawyers.
wouldn't it tho



Quote:Jack, don't tell them we're not like deliverance lol, it keeps people away.
oh yea, I meant to say that we're a bunch of no good illiterate inbreeds. Genetically inferior, violent, slave driving racists. We all have guns, even the children, and only bath in the summer, when the creeks is warm. We get drunk on moonshine, and then go out shoeless and hunt outsiders, all outsiders, whether from the city or country (specially northerners) Half of us are toothless and the other half crazy. The crazy half kills the outsider and grinds it up for the toothless to eat:D

actually, now that I think about it, that really is a fairly good representation - Deliverance too.



btw hilly, I too think that just moving into the wilderness would be easier said than done, at least here in the states.
My plan involved endless wandering, buy a tiny self-contained camper and go. Living longish stretches in the wild, then moving when needed. Stop and work odd jobs every now and then for gas, cash and supplies, never staying one place too long.
I would still be in the system, because my truck would need to be legal, but I would not earn a real paycheck unless necessary (can't find odd job) And would not earn enough real job income to owe tax, which is good because they wouldn't know where to find me. I figured that this would take many years if I worked myself through all the states.
Who knows, maybe I'd even be able to cross over the northern or southern borders.
Heck I could be old and dead by then.

Now I would be happy to have a few acres where I could have a pair of cattle, sheep, and some chickens. But if I wasn't a parent - it would be the camper
&Alice laughed, &There's no use trying,& she said: &one can't believe impossible things.& &I daresay you haven't had much practice,& said the Queen. &When I was your age I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.&
- Lewis Carroll

&Things are seldom as they seem ... Skim milk masquerades as cream.&
- Gilbert and Sullivan (Pinafore)

At NASA, it really is rocket science, and the decision makers really are rocket scientists.
But a body of research that is getting more and more attention points to the ways that smart people working collectively can be dumber than the sum of their parts. .. Irwin Janis? &Groupthink:& is a mode of thinking that people engage in when they are deeply involved in a cohesive in-group, when the members' striving for unanimity override realistic appraisals ? It is the triumph of concurrence over good sense, and authority over expertise.&
-John Schwartz & Matthew L. Wade
Reply
10-27-2008, 03:29 AM,
#36
Sacred Earth
lol, thanks jack, that should scare people away.

If the shit ever hits the fan, you're not far from us here and you and your family will always be welcome. Plenty of food, ammo, and room. We won't eat you all at once. lol. Seriously, you all will always be welcome.
Reply
10-27-2008, 04:49 AM,
#37
Sacred Earth
Protection from the government, not the good joe next door who is just as brainwashed and immorally distorted and preyed upon in america. Why does government have all the gunz and the citizens do not have at least one... Take this scenario....U.S.A government wants all developing nations to stop building nuclear reactors amongst others, yet the united snakes does not stop building and experimenting on new weapons, jets, and biological and when it suits it needs it just invades nations without regard to children, women, and the elderly. I say you keep your weapons and get a couple of AKs for your protections to protect the people from the greatest hypocrite who wants to disarm you and take your house, dog, lands, and exterminate your children.
Unite The Many, defeat the few.

Revolution is for the love of your people, culture, knowledge, wisdom, spirit, and peace. Not Greed!
Soul Rebel Native Son


http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=277...enous&hl=en
Reply
10-27-2008, 12:19 PM,
#38
Sacred Earth
Quote:Why does government have all the gunz
Why does anyone have guns? The genie's out of the bottle. The least we could do is ARM the UN to destroy inter-state arms trading.

Quote:protect the people from the greatest hypocrite who wants to disarm you and take your house, dog, lands, and exterminate your children.
No. Not that last bit. Not by non-existent "chemtrails" it doesn't. Possibly by poisoning your groundwater, it does. (And your air, by GM pollens).
Reply
10-27-2008, 12:23 PM,
#39
Sacred Earth
Quote:My plan involved endless wandering, buy a tiny self-contained camper and go. Living longish stretches in the wild, then moving when needed.
Endless wandering would take you to your nearest source of fatal trouble.

Quote:Now I would be happy to have a few acres where I could have a pair of cattle, sheep, and some chickens. But if I wasn't a parent - it would be the camper
What you should consider is a place which ISN'T a through-route to ANYWHERE.
Reply
10-27-2008, 01:02 PM,
#40
Sacred Earth
hilly7 Oct 27 2008 12:07 AM post 152195

All due respect JazzRoc, in reality the land owner (at least here) can tell you that you can put a place to live like Jack's picture but it ain't likely to happen
The world is changing right now. What is it going to change into, do you think?

Most of us that own land do what we need ourselves
You'd do well to make the best of your good fortune.

With most farmers you'd probably be shot
In a changing world they might not be so keen to shoot. Say you were an engineer and could fix their machinery, or you were a clothes trader who could supply them with winter clothing?

The county government would I'm sure ask one to move and possibly fine the land owner
A government without funds might not exist...

DHS would immediately take any kids one has - What happens when the land owner dies or fails to pay taxes? - Government land, get real, you can't even ride a horse through it unless you pick up and bag the shit, for that matter even tie it to a tree
See above.

At best we have to change the system, it is just not real to think we can just drop out
How long are you going to live?

It's not going away
It's just caught the train...

We're fortunate, my wife and I grow most of what we eat, from vegetables to fruit to meat. We're slowly converting to solar and looking at a few other alternatives
Finish that conversion. Study what will be real in a post-industrial society.

but facts are real
Facts are subject to change without notice. Your stock may fall, as well as rise.

One must make money to pay the taxes, buy the stuff we can't produce, and live
Make biofuel. Travel less often. Work closer to home. Talk to your neighbours. Trade by barter.

Nobody is 100%, even if they aren't producing, they are dependent upon someone who does
Everyone can have more utility than they presently have. Answers are found by asking the questions.

with the small amount of rainfall, one is limited what one can do. That is just nature
Certain trees gather water from the air. Dew may be collected by hanging nets. Moisture may be retained by creating microclimates. Rain can be collected off roofs and roads and any hard-standing and directed into tanks.

We have to change the system both economic and especially eco-wise
How long are you going to live?

Dropping out is not an option. Though if my wife would, I would move to another country, I think this one is screwed.
Dropping IN isn't an option, either.

TIP. At latitude 28 degrees, you can live outdoors*. Heating no longer needs to be factored in to your cost of living. (*But insects would bite you!)
Reply
10-27-2008, 08:38 PM,
#41
Sacred Earth
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:resources -
enough, used to be plentiful, before the carpetbaggers showed up. The problem there is water, the energy companies have poisoned it through strip mining coal "MTR" Greedy bastards could pay men to dig it the environmentally friendly, old fashioned way, but this MTR method makes a BIG profit.

It's a tragedy, down right criminal !!!
Those mountains are beautiful, full of wildlife, yet slowly disappearing.

before mining - http://www.appvoices.org/index.php?/gallery/category/C6/ :)
after - http://www.appvoices.org/index.php?/gallery/category/C2/ :(

Greed destroys souls!

Mexica, did you check out the destruction shown from the links ??

it's quite a shame, they clear cut, then blow the whole top off of the mountain, filling in the valleys below with debris, this creates a dam for slurry/toxic sludge ponds (lakes) the byproduct of coal washing.
In Ky a sludge pond owned by Massey Energy broke through an old underground mine and the burst out. All 306 million gallons or 1.16 billion liters of toxic waste (the Exxon Valdez spill was only 10.8 million) spilled into the Tug Fork River, then into Wolf Creek and Coldwater Fork, killing the aquatic life and contaminated the residents water supply with arsenic, mercury, copper, lead, chromium, cyanide, barium, -- the list just keeps on going .....

the aftermath -

[Image: MartinCountyNastySpill.jpg]
pretty, huh

Martin County Coal, Co., a subsidiary of Massey is responsible for the spill, they argued in court that the event was “an act of God.”


Quote:More than 7 percent of Appalachian forests have been cut down and more than 1,200 miles of streams across the region have been buried or polluted between 1985 and 2001.
800+ square miles of mountains are estimated to be already destroyed. (this is equal to a one-quarter mile wide swath of destruction from New York to San Francisco – it is also significantly underestimated) if it continues unabated, this will cause a projected loss of more than 1.4 million acres by the end of the decade.

This is done all the time in Africa and latin America. The corporations are destroying Earth and life over a masonic dollar, oh, the dollar is the corporations....

And yea, these fascist will use the term God to justify all criminal activity...Just like the Inquisition, same evil people..
Unite The Many, defeat the few.

Revolution is for the love of your people, culture, knowledge, wisdom, spirit, and peace. Not Greed!
Soul Rebel Native Son


http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=277...enous&hl=en
Reply
10-28-2008, 02:19 AM, (This post was last modified: 10-28-2008, 02:21 AM by hilly7.)
#42
Sacred Earth
Quote:hilly7 Oct 27 2008 12:07 AM post 152195

All due respect JazzRoc, in reality the land owner (at least here) can tell you that you can put a place to live like Jack's picture but it ain't likely to happen
The world is changing right now. What is it going to change into, do you think?

Most of us that own land do what we need ourselves
You'd do well to make the best of your good fortune.

With most farmers you'd probably be shot
In a changing world they might not be so keen to shoot. Say you were an engineer and could fix their machinery, or you were a clothes trader who could supply them with winter clothing?

The county government would I'm sure ask one to move and possibly fine the land owner
A government without funds might not exist...

DHS would immediately take any kids one has - What happens when the land owner dies or fails to pay taxes? - Government land, get real, you can't even ride a horse through it unless you pick up and bag the shit, for that matter even tie it to a tree
See above.

At best we have to change the system, it is just not real to think we can just drop out
How long are you going to live?

It's not going away
It's just caught the train...

We're fortunate, my wife and I grow most of what we eat, from vegetables to fruit to meat. We're slowly converting to solar and looking at a few other alternatives
Finish that conversion. Study what will be real in a post-industrial society.

but facts are real
Facts are subject to change without notice. Your stock may fall, as well as rise.

One must make money to pay the taxes, buy the stuff we can't produce, and live
Make biofuel. Travel less often. Work closer to home. Talk to your neighbours. Trade by barter.

Nobody is 100%, even if they aren't producing, they are dependent upon someone who does
Everyone can have more utility than they presently have. Answers are found by asking the questions.

with the small amount of rainfall, one is limited what one can do. That is just nature
Certain trees gather water from the air. Dew may be collected by hanging nets. Moisture may be retained by creating microclimates. Rain can be collected off roofs and roads and any hard-standing and directed into tanks.

We have to change the system both economic and especially eco-wise
How long are you going to live?

Dropping out is not an option. Though if my wife would, I would move to another country, I think this one is screwed.
Dropping IN isn't an option, either.

TIP. At latitude 28 degrees, you can live outdoors*. Heating no longer needs to be factored in to your cost of living. (*But insects would bite you!)



While the world is changing, its doubtful that TPTB will go without a fight and looking back into history one can see that even when they have expired, bullies remain. I do see people maybe living without, but in reality without is a choice too. Meanwhile , changing is not yet changed and many victims will come from those who mistake changing from actual change. While structures may change, people's hearts must change first.


I am thankful of my good fortune but I've earned it from the sweat of my brow and yes, perhaps it will be a struggle to keep, then again, that is part of it. It did not come easy and I don't expect it to get any easier.


As for farmers needing an engineer, again your world is a bit lacking in views. True farmers, not corporate ones, fix their own stuff, ie cars, tractors, buildings and yes, grow and preserve their own foods. Most of us have the capability and knowledge of making clothes and weapons from scratch. Believe it or not, we may appear dumb to someone who is versed at being a left brain prisoner. You would be surprized to see what real farmers can and do actually do. So yeah, we'd probably shoot. Traders are much different than squatters and bartering here in the south is a way of life. Bartering and squatting rules are completely different. Still, no one person is completely self sufficient, we need someone else.


What if there wasn't government, answered in afore mentioned. I'm not much on the word IF. If a frog had wings he wouldn't bust his ass everytime he flies. We work with what we have instead of wanting what we haven't. How long will I live, good question but not revelant to anything. That is where you have to clean your training out. How long we live isn't the question, it is how we have lived. From the Cherokee ways I must say, today is a good day to die or live, that is not my choice to make. If granted how I chose to live this day is my choice to make.


Nothing we see is by chance, stocks, falling markets, etc. Some of us saw this planned and got out of the market. Hint: Turn off the TV. You apparently watch too much. Jack is correct on water. Yes, there are dews and other things one can do, but no rain means just that, little to no rain. These are facts. There isn't enough water to successfully grow food and maintain a family. Euel Gibbons died of eating tree bank.lol.


Dropping in isn't an option, but neither is dropping out. How about blending with your enviornment. City people know the ways of the city, how to blend, country people know the ways of the country, how to blend. A switch now could mean certain death. Work with what you have and are familiar with people. Travel less? If you are in the country that is what you do but completely unavoidable. Food doesn't grow in the stores.


I do appreciate the 28 degrees info, but I'm too old to run, too stubborn to change, and too proud to beg. Death comes to us all someday and perhaps instead of focusing on death, we should focus on life and how we live it.

Edit : Almost forgot you mentioned give the UN the guns. Pardon my slang here but Fuck the UN and the white horse they rode in on. UN= evil.
Reply
10-28-2008, 11:50 AM,
#43
Sacred Earth
Quote:Nothing we see is by chance, stocks, falling markets, etc. Some of us saw this planned and got out of the market. Hint: Turn off the TV. You apparently watch too much.
I don't have one.
Reply


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