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Good Soy is No Soy
12-25-2008, 11:37 AM, (This post was last modified: 12-25-2008, 03:31 PM by drew hempel.)
Good Soy is No Soy
Ephilution -- thanks for responding about this fluoride paradox. Before I read your response and the amazing link -- thanks -- I watched this brilliant interview from the pinned thread above:

And strangely the journalist says HYPERactive and then immediately afterwards the toxicologist says HYPOactive. I played it back a couple times to make sure I discovered this difference. So it would appear that my question has some validity. But this fluoride paradox is resolved when we consider that biology works with nonlinear systems which can flip-flop to the opposite extremes when the system is out of balance: hence manic-depressive and of course the fact that these drugs just mask deeper issues while causing more worse side-effects.

I've been "doing" fluoride of late but now will go cold turkey.

Anyway I appreciate you mentioning the issue again because even my boss-coworker at Clean Water Action was promoting fluoride's "mineralization" benefits -- about a year ago -- in a conversation we had. Your link proves that claim is utter b.s. Fortunately the place I work has a field office in New Jersey that has recently come out against water fluoridation. So slowly this conspiracy is being exposed but my dad, of course, goes out of his way to buy Walmart fluoride water since his well-water is not fluoridated. At least he's protected from anthrax now.

Just to bring it back to the soy connection (fluoride is sprayed on soy):

A February 1972 article in Prevention Magazine, "How Airborne Fluorides Can Poison Foods" made for even more disturbing reading. It said: "It was in 1968 that the toxic organic fluoride compounds-fluoroacetate and fluorocitrate-were detected in soy beans that had been fumigated with hydrogen fluoride gas. . ." There was no monitoring of fluoride levels in the soy infant formula at the time Anita's son was poisoned. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8

Other studies from 1968 revealed that fluoroacetate and fluorocitrate were more than 500 times more toxic than inorganic fluorides. Unfortunately, most prominent researchers and toxicologists continue to base the toxicity of fluoride in soybeans-and of most species of fluorides-on that of sodium fluoride. They do not take into account any interactions or compound effects. In the case of Anita's son, the toxic organic fluorides may have triggered a physical chain reaction that caused the overall effects of the toxicants in the soy-based infant formula to become potentiated. However, as long as researchers refuse to consider these possibilities, further progress will never be made.

Subsequently, researchers testing the organic fluorides extracted from soy beans discovered that they disrupt carbohydrate metabolism. Later studies found that fluorocitrate and fluoroacetate produce neurotoxic effects and kidney, liver and reproductive damage in animals. 9, 10
12-25-2008, 05:21 PM,
Good Soy is No Soy
Quote:To make Soy even worse, pretty much all Soy is Genetically Modified. Soy was never intended by nature to be used as a food source.

This is the crime of soy and the way ALL other food stuphs are going - with soy you can no longer be guaranteed a difference between GM and non-GM grown crop.

Wheat is going this way too.

I stopped using soya milk after years [I stopped cows milk and felt better in weeks - cows milk produces mucus - it's obvious we should not be taking the stuff] and moved to Rice Milk - like Rice Dream or Protoveg milk. It's an aquired taste but i like it.
"We are just glorified monkeys in suits.... show me where it's written we should be able to model the cosmos?!" -Terence McKenna, 21st Century Bard
R.I.P-ranks Terence. I miss your take on life.
12-25-2008, 05:28 PM, (This post was last modified: 12-25-2008, 05:29 PM by ---.)
Good Soy is No Soy
Rice milk is great..with a tiny bit of a raw sugar - I could drink litres of the stuff, really like it - the downside though is that it is expensive as fuck!
12-25-2008, 05:58 PM,
Good Soy is No Soy
Real milk has a lot of advantages but best I know, its illegial to sell. Once the basterize it, it becomes not so good. Somebody here (don't remember who) made almond milk.
12-28-2008, 11:44 AM,
Good Soy is No Soy
Quote:Rice milk is great..with a tiny bit of a raw sugar - I could drink litres of the stuff, really like it - the downside though is that it is expensive as fuck!

LOL - tell me about it. Each week I stand at the local super-market by me and see soya milk going DOWN in price [50pence a litre] and rice type milks going up [£1-10 and counting last check].

The more crap it's based on the cheaper they offer it - population reduction is a capitalist phenomenon. Soon anything with terminator genetix will be handed out free on the UK NHS !!

"We are just glorified monkeys in suits.... show me where it's written we should be able to model the cosmos?!" -Terence McKenna, 21st Century Bard
R.I.P-ranks Terence. I miss your take on life.
10-13-2011, 11:02 PM,
RE: Good Soy is No Soy
Soy can lower your sperm count significantly according to this small Harvard study that should have been followed up by a larger sampling and further investigation.

Quote:Soy food and isoflavone intake in relation to semen quality parameters among men from an infertility clinic.
Hum Reprod. 2008 Nov;23(11):2584-90. Epub 2008 Jul 23.

Chavarro JE, Toth TL, Sadio SM, Hauser R.

Source Department of Nutrition, Harvard School of Public Health, Boston, MA, USA.



High isoflavone intake has been related to decreased fertility in animal studies, but data in humans are scarce. Thus, we examined the association of soy foods and isoflavones intake with semen quality parameters.


The intake of 15 soy-based foods in the previous 3 months was assessed for 99 male partners of subfertile couples who presented for semen analyses to the Massachusetts General Hospital Fertility Center. Linear and quantile regression were used to determine the association of soy foods and isoflavones intake with semen quality parameters while adjusting for personal characteristics.


There was an inverse association between soy food intake and sperm concentration that remained significant after accounting for age, abstinence time, body mass index, caffeine and alcohol intake and smoking. In the multivariate-adjusted analyses, men in the highest category of soy food intake had 41 million sperm/ml less than men who did not consume soy foods (95% confidence interval = -74, -8; P, trend = 0.02). Results for individual soy isoflavones were similar to the results for soy foods and were strongest for glycitein, but did not reach statistical significance. The inverse relation between soy food intake and sperm concentration was more pronounced in the high end of the distribution (90th and 75th percentile) and among overweight or obese men. Soy food and soy isoflavone intake were unrelated to sperm motility, sperm morphology or ejaculate volume.


These data suggest that higher intake of soy foods and soy isoflavones is associated with lower sperm concentration.

PMID: 18650557
PMCID: PMC2721724

Soy is mostly GMO now and, like corn, is highly subsidized; as a result you'll find it used in all sorts of prepared foods as filler et al. There is also a big promotion by mainstream health claiming it is a boon to a healthy diet, misleading IMO. So is there a eugenics play in here too? A pharma motive? A bait and switch biofuel resource allocation? Subsidized GMO Soy as a staple in the food supply could serve several agendas along with the obvious business of feeding centralized proprietary food production.

Related Discussion Threads on Soy:

Soy: For Your Health or Their Wealth?

Scientists versus the soy industry

What's best? Soy milk, cow's milk, raw milk and fermented milk (kefir)
There are no others, there is only us.
10-14-2011, 05:24 AM, (This post was last modified: 10-14-2011, 08:04 AM by nwo2012.)
RE: Good Soy is No Soy
Actually it can prevent heart attacks. A small amount of organic natto contains the form of vitmain K2. But yes just a small serving daily.
10-14-2011, 06:05 PM,
RE: Good Soy is No Soy
drew hempel Wrote:Chunyi Lin, spent a month with no food, no water and no sleep -- just sitting in full-lotus in a cave in China.
i call severe bullshit on that claim.
that is absolutely NOT possible, any doctor, medic or person with medical.physiological knowledge will tell you it's utter balls.
i am not trying to be offensive to you at all here, i am dumbstruck that no-one else picked up on that tid-bit.
it's just plain fucking impossible to do it i am afraid
Also the longest anyone has gone without sleep is 18 days 21 hours by Randy Gardner
[Image: siolflag.gif]

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