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Picture: Lasers Hit Greek Riots
12-17-2008, 11:03 PM,
#1
Picture: Lasers Hit Greek Riots
Picture: Lasers Hit Greek Riots
By Noah Shachtman December 15, 2008 | 5:04:28 PMCategories: Lasers and Ray Guns

[Image: greecelaser_1205981i.jpg]

Police around the world use everything from sonic blasters to pepper spray to skunk bombs to plain-ol' dung to control crowds. But sometimes, the protesters can turn the tables, with tools of their own. Take this clash in Greece, where a protester uses a laser pointer to show where a riot cop is.

UPDATE: As our commenters note, a laser like this can do more than just show where an officer is; it can stun that cop with an extremely bright flash of light.

http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/12/laser-war-in-gr.html
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12-17-2008, 11:42 PM,
#2
Picture: Lasers Hit Greek Riots
Especially when you take the regulatory resistor off of the laser. Then it will do some real damage like burning a retina...
“Today’s scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after
equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. ” -Nikola Tesla

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." -Jimi Hendrix
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12-17-2008, 11:51 PM, (This post was last modified: 12-17-2008, 11:53 PM by ---.)
#3
Picture: Lasers Hit Greek Riots
Quote:Especially when you take the regulatory resistor off of the laser. Then it will do some real damage like burning a retina...

I was wondering if they might have done that myself, what do you reckon? B)




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sf3M-_RUSCM
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12-18-2008, 12:04 AM,
#4
Picture: Lasers Hit Greek Riots
I would bet they didn't. Considering the figure is still standing, that suggests it is just the regular damn bright laser. If they had modded it, he would be screaming and clutching a damaged eye.
“Today’s scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after
equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. ” -Nikola Tesla

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." -Jimi Hendrix
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12-18-2008, 12:08 AM,
#5
Picture: Lasers Hit Greek Riots
hmm,It'd be odd though if they hadn't already thought of it. Not necessarily to maim but at the very least to really scare the cops.
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12-18-2008, 12:14 AM,
#6
Picture: Lasers Hit Greek Riots
Getting hit in the eye with the regular powered ones is still disturbing enough. Even that way can cause permanent damage to the retina.

They may have thought of it or not. Modified, it is actually a weapon and not just an annoyance. Hook up a capacitor network to the pen and all of a sudden you have a REAL weaponized laser! Just like a gun, I would think twice about pointing it at someone that I didn't want to kill or at least maim.

Given the situation, using it as a pointer and as a blinding tool is enough. If you take it to the weapon stage, then you get a more violent reaction from the police.
“Today’s scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after
equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. ” -Nikola Tesla

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." -Jimi Hendrix
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12-18-2008, 12:17 AM,
#7
Picture: Lasers Hit Greek Riots
Quote:Getting hit in the eye with the regular powered ones is still disturbing enough. Even that way can cause permanent damage to the retina.

They may have thought of it or not. Modified, it is actually a weapon and not just an annoyance. Hook up a capacitor network to the pen and all of a sudden you have a REAL weaponized laser! Just like a gun, I would think twice about pointing it at someone that I didn't want to kill or at least maim.

Given the situation, using it as a pointer and as a blinding tool is enough. If you take it to the weapon stage, then you get a more violent reaction from the police.

Yeah that's kind of where my thinking to the question is too. Perhaps if the situation escalates and people get killed - we'll 'see' this..
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12-18-2008, 03:43 PM,
#8
Picture: Lasers Hit Greek Riots
copied from Znet,
more information, also mentions the laser .

linkage to source


Quote:This is a letter forwarded to D&S collective member Amee Chew (sent to her from a friend of hers), with more details about the situation in Greece.

Friends,

I don't know if others have been following the daily news of what is unfolding in Greece. The press here has mostly reported events as another explosion of "riots" in response to a police killing, without context.

In fact, what is taking place in Greece is much larger than that. In its immediate context, the uprising of the last 10 days comes on the heels of a rising oppositional movement: recently, the Greeks managed to achieve a general strike with support from 80-90% of the working population against privatization of national industries and other neoliberal policies, and for doubling the minimum wage. A broad hunger strike among Greek prisoners, with mass solidarity from Greek society, has also compelled the government to agree to the release of about half the prison population (and the movement declared that this would not be enough).

The "spontaneous" anger of young people against police violence has beneath and alongside it long-standing movement structures that are allowing it not simply to "discharge" and dissipate, but to grow, strengthen itself and expand into new political areas. It is taking place in a population that is highly politicized and has a history of resistance to draw from.

But it's extraordinary to see the mass mobilization of very young people--high-school students between the ages of 11 and 17, taking to the streets, taking over their schools, developing a politics that addresses their lives directly. It's not just resistance to police repression now, but a wider discussion is taking place about education social organization--with students holding mass assemblies in their occupied schools, trying to decide what the meaning would be of an education that is part of the life they want for themselves, and not the life that is being prepared for them by the existing society.

(The flyer at the this link, from the website of the Coordination of Occupied Schools Alexandros Grigoropulos, says it well. The slogans translate as follows: across the top "The time has come for us to take the future into our hands." On the left, is the image of a student sleeping over books with the caption "School, home, tutoring". On the right are students filling the streets, marching behind a banner that says "These days belong to Alexi: cops, pigs, murderers!" and above it, the caption reads, "Struggle, rupture, revolution." )

At this point, hundreds of schools, colleges and universities have been occupied and are being transformed into centers of organizing. They are running their own radio stations, some of which are private stations now under occupation. They are occupying public buildings; attacking police stations and government ministries.

Yesterday, students occupied the central state-run television station during its news broadcast of the Prime Minister's speech and stood with a banner saying, "Stop watching and go out into the streets!" Two smaller placards read, "Freedom for all those who have been arrested," and "Immediate release for all the arrested." (Video here.)

In a separate action, another group attacked the central Athens headquarters of the MAT, burning vehicles and a portion of the building. The MAT (Monades Apokatastasis Taxis "Units For Restoring Order") are the "riot police"--a specifically political branch of the police force developed to suppress "civil unrest." They were developed by police who received training in the US. (Greece has been a central recipient of US police training and technology for repression.) The dissolution of the MAT is one of the central demands that has come out of the assemblies of occupied schools and universities. (This also has a particular topical appropriateness: the MAT were first introduced by Konstantinos Karamanlis, father of the current Prime Minister and leader of the same right wing party Nea Dimokratia, in the years following the fall of the Greek junta. The leader of the junta would later write in his memoir that if the MAT had existed at that time, the junta might not have fallen.)

A video from this past weekend shows a battle with MAT police in the Exarchia neighborhood--the area in which the police murder took place that sparked the current uprising, and a center of left organizing--in which youths defending their neighborhood are using laser beams to blind the police and also to pinpoint them as targets so that they can maximize the effect of their crude firepower (molotov cocktails and stones) by focusing a barrage on one target at a time. (Video.)

At the center of the battle in Athens is the historic Polytechnion--the university famous for the events of November 17, 1973, when the junta attacked protesting students with tanks. As a result of that history, the police are constitutionally unable to enter the university, making it a protected enclave for political organizing and a tactical base of operations. Every evening now, after the protests and street battles, students and other active members of the movement gather for a general assembly. The Coordination of the General Assemblies and Occupations in Athens has given the movement both a political face and a structure of continuity for building, planning and deepening its political consciousness. (Website and
blog.)

The uprising in Greece has a particular relevance at this moment in history. If you read the military manuals and strategy papers of the US architects of empire, Greece is a centerpiece of "counterinsurgency" doctrine. In the immediate postwar period, the US and England fought an extended counterinsurgency war to suppress the left (communist and anarchist), which had become the most powerful political force in the country through the years of resistance to the German occupation. The strategy was to brutally repress the armed resistance (80,000 British troops and the arming of domestic fascists to kill, imprison, and torture left guerillas), while at the same time promoting elections and including a legitimate "socialist" opposition, which supported surrendering arms and using the parliamentary system.

This is the "handbook" which the US uses in its imperial wars of conquest and occupation. It's called "promoting Democracy." Appropriate then, this declaration of the Greek uprising: "Their Democracy murders..." (here).

----------------------

[Since I haven't seen it yet appear in English, I'm pasting below the statement put out by the students who occupied the national TV yesterday. Translating as best I can:]


Our action is the result of an accumulated pressure which is robbing us of our lives, and not only an emotional explosion based on the murder of Alexis Grigoropulos by the police. We are one more collective, a piece of the revolt which is taking place.

Against pacification by the mass media, we are carrying out an intervention-interjection in the flow of the program of ERT [state television]. It's our view that the mass media systematically cultivates fear. Rather than informing, they misinform. They are presenting a multifaceted revolt as a blind release.

They are explaining the social explosion in penal rather than political terms. They are selectively concealing the actual facts. They are representing a revolt as another spectacle which we should simply follow until the next soap opera begins. The mass media is daily turned into a means of suppressing free and public thought.

Let's organize ourselves. No authority can offer solutions to our problems. We need to meet with other human beings. To turn our public places, the streets, the squares, the parks, the schools, into places of unmediated expression. To find ourselves face to face so that we can transform together our thought and actions.


Let's not be afraid. Let's turn off our televisions, go out of our houses, continue to lay claim to our life, to take it into our hands.

We condemn the police violence, immediate release of the arrested demonstrators. For human emancipation and freedom.

If Thine I that I spy with my own little I Doeth Offend thee ; Pluck It out.

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12-18-2008, 04:14 PM,
#9
Picture: Lasers Hit Greek Riots
Thanks for that, Standvast:)

Quote:A video from this past weekend shows a battle with MAT police in the Exarchia neighborhood--the area in which the police murder took place that sparked the current uprising, and a center of left organizing--in which youths defending their neighborhood are using laser beams to blind the police and also to pinpoint them as targets so that they can maximize the effect of their crude firepower (molotov cocktails and stones) by focusing a barrage on one target at a time. (Video.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtdXCnaRsGs&eurl

That's got to be one of the worst 'news reports' I've ever heard.


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12-22-2008, 12:21 AM,
#10
Picture: Lasers Hit Greek Riots
Quote:Published on Friday, December 19, 2008 by The Province (Canada)
Troops to Use Laser Dazzlers on Afghan Civilians
But critics say Canada could be breaking international treaties

The Canadian military is spending more than $10 million on 500 laser dazzlers for troops in Afghanistan in what it calls an attempt to reduce civilian casualties.

The devices cause temporarily blindness and the army is hoping they can be used to ward off Afghans who drive or walk too closely to Canadian checkpoints or convoys. Troops -- worried about suicide bombers -- have killed or wounded civilians who ignored or didn't heed warnings to keep their distance.

The dazzlers, also called "laser-generated visual warning technology," could be in the hands of Canadian troops in Kandahar as early as next fall.

Project director Maj. Stephane Dufour says the devices are designed to protect both soldiers and Afghan civilians. He says being hit by a laser is like someone looking at the sun.

"It's fairly bright," Dufour explains. "It will not debilitate you so much that you will have an accident, but for sure you will know something is going on. If you keep coming, then the intent is determined that perhaps you are not a good guy." The devices will be mounted on troops' personal weapons.

If successful, the 500 initial dazzlers could be followed by an order for 250 more.

Demonstrations of the dazzlers were conducted in Ottawa in August 2007 and there have been various tests, with more planned for early next year.

But Anthony Salloum, program director of the Rideau Institute, an advocacy group that has raised concerns about the dazzlers, contends they are being put into the field without proper testing. That could mean Canada violating international treaties on the introduction of new weapons.

Salloum says Canada has also ratified a treaty that prevents the use of weapons that cause permanent blindness, all of which "begs the question about why the government is going full hog on purchasing 500 of these weapons when they haven't been fully tested."

An air force report on the dazzlers says injuries could range from "quite significant" to "virtually undetectable." The report says it will be important for soldiers to receive proper training so they do not use the dazzlers on people at too close range.

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2008/12/19-4
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12-22-2008, 12:57 PM,
#11
Picture: Lasers Hit Greek Riots
Quote:I would bet they didn't. Considering the figure is still standing, that suggests it is just the regular damn bright laser. If they had modded it, he would be screaming and clutching a damaged eye.

When I had laser safety training several years ago (while in the RAF) the safety officer pointed out to us that burning your retina is painless (due to no nerve receptors there) so why would they be "screaming"? Plus the damage isn't a melted eyeball it's a blind spot - similar to arc-eye but permanent - that corresponds to the size (and angle) of the laser beam hitting your eye - it doesn't burn out the whole retina (at least the military grade one we used wouldn't). We were taught never to look anywhere near the beam because you wouldn't notice, for a little while, that you had been burnt/blinded. Lasers are nasty things sometimes but are useful tools in the right hands.

“Anyone who thinks the LHC will destroy the world is a twat.” - Professor Brian Cox.
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12-22-2008, 08:36 PM, (This post was last modified: 12-22-2008, 08:38 PM by ---.)
#12
Picture: Lasers Hit Greek Riots
Quote:
Quote:I would bet they didn't. Considering the figure is still standing, that suggests it is just the regular damn bright laser. If they had modded it, he would be screaming and clutching a damaged eye.

When I had laser safety training several years ago (while in the RAF) the safety officer pointed out to us that burning your retina is painless (due to no nerve receptors there) so why would they be "screaming"? Plus the damage isn't a melted eyeball it's a blind spot - similar to arc-eye but permanent - that corresponds to the size (and angle) of the laser beam hitting your eye - it doesn't burn out the whole retina (at least the military grade one we used wouldn't). We were taught never to look anywhere near the beam because you wouldn't notice, for a little while, that you had been burnt/blinded. Lasers are nasty things sometimes but are useful tools in the right hands.

I thought ES was speaking of 'modified' laser pointers..but I imagine you're meaning that it's entirely possible to damage the eye with a standard 35mw type or so.
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12-23-2008, 11:02 AM,
#13
Picture: Lasers Hit Greek Riots
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:I would bet they didn't. Considering the figure is still standing, that suggests it is just the regular damn bright laser. If they had modded it, he would be screaming and clutching a damaged eye.

When I had laser safety training several years ago (while in the RAF) the safety officer pointed out to us that burning your retina is painless (due to no nerve receptors there) so why would they be "screaming"? Plus the damage isn't a melted eyeball it's a blind spot - similar to arc-eye but permanent - that corresponds to the size (and angle) of the laser beam hitting your eye - it doesn't burn out the whole retina (at least the military grade one we used wouldn't). We were taught never to look anywhere near the beam because you wouldn't notice, for a little while, that you had been burnt/blinded. Lasers are nasty things sometimes but are useful tools in the right hands.

I thought ES was speaking of 'modified' laser pointers..but I imagine you're meaning that it's entirely possible to damage the eye with a standard 35mw type or so.

Ahh I see - slightly misunderstood him there.

Lasers that are Type 1 or 2 aren't too dangerous because the eyes blink reflex protects you from a long exposure to the beam (although staring into it is still bad!) but with a Type 3a, which is up to about 5mW, the quarter second or so the eye blinks for isn't going to protect your retina from damage. The lasers in your CD/DVD burner are far more powerful than that (around 500mW - a Type 3b) and can cause extensive retinal damage. Anything above that sort of power and you are into starting fires and burning people but these sorts of lasers aren't really portable/practical so not much use in a riot situation. Laser safety, I think, is governed by the MPE, the Maximum Permissable Exposure.

Saying that all this could've changed since I got trained.:LOL:
“Anyone who thinks the LHC will destroy the world is a twat.” - Professor Brian Cox.
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12-23-2008, 11:33 AM,
#14
Picture: Lasers Hit Greek Riots
You can get 400mw in a hand held...
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12-24-2008, 07:48 PM,
#15
Picture: Lasers Hit Greek Riots
Saw this pic earlier with several others, I especially liked the one where they burned up the x-mass tree.
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