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Scientists urge caution on global warming
12-21-2008, 11:59 PM,
#1
Scientists urge caution on global warming
Quote:Scientists urge caution on global warming
Thursday, 27 November 2008 18:12 Erika Lovley


climate changeWASHINGTON, Nov. 27 (Politico) Climate change skeptics on Capitol Hill are quietly watching a growing accumulation of global cooling science and other findings that could signal that the science behind global warming may still be too shaky to warrant cap-and-trade legislation.

While the new Obama administration promises aggressive, forward-thinking environmental policies, Weather Channel co-founder Joseph D’Aleo and other scientists are organizing lobbying efforts to take aim at the cap-and-trade bill that Democrats plan to unveil in January.

So far, members of Congress have not been keen to publicly back the global cooling theory. But both senators from Oklahoma, Republicans Tom Coburn and Jim Inhofe, have often expressed doubts about how much of a role man-made emissions play.

“We want the debate to be about science, not fear and hypocrisy. We hope next year’s wave of new politics means a return to science,” said Coburn aide John Hart. “It’s the old kind of politics that doesn’t consider any dissenting opinions.”

The global cooling lobby’s challenge is enormous. Next year could be the unfriendliest yet for climate skeptics. Already, House Energy and Commerce Chairman John Dingell (D-Mich.) has lost his gavel, in part because his peers felt he was less than serious about tackling global warming.

The National Academy of Sciences and most major scientific bodies agree that global warming is caused by man-made carbon emissions. But a small, growing number of scientists, including D’Aleo, are questioning how quickly the warming is happening and whether humans are actually the leading cause.

Armed with statistics from the Goddard Institute for Space Studies and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s National Climate Data Center, D’Aleo reported in the 2009 Old Farmer’s Almanac that the U.S. annual mean temperature has fluctuated for decades and has only risen 0.21 degrees since 1930 — which he says is caused by fluctuating solar activity levels and ocean temperatures, not carbon emissions.

Data from the same source shows that during five of the past seven decades, including this one, average U.S. temperatures have gone down. And the almanac predicted that the next year will see a period of cooling.

“We’re worried that people are too focused on carbon dioxide as the culprit,” D’Aleo said. “Recent warming has stopped since 1998, and we want to stop draconian measures that will hurt already spiraling downward economics. We’re environmentalists and conservationists at heart, but we don’t think that carbon is responsible for hurricanes.”

D’Aleo’s organization, the International Climate and Environmental Change Assessment Project, is collaborating on the campaign with the Cooler Heads Coalition, a subgroup of the National Consumer Coalition with members including Americans for Tax Reform, the National Center for Policy Analysis and Citizens for a Sound Economy.

More than 31,000 scientists across the world have signed the Global Warming Petition Project, a declaration started by a group of American scientists that states man’s impact on climate change can’t be reasonably proven.

If the project gains traction, it might give skeptical lawmakers an additional weapon to fight cap-and-trade legislation to curtail greenhouse gases — a move they worry could damage the already fragile economy. At the least, congressional aides say, it could caution additional lawmakers from rushing into a hasty piece of legislation.

Many Hill skeptics have varying opinions on whether the earth’s temperature is warming more slowly than some environmentalists predict and how much man is actually contributing to it.

Inhofe’s staff has been steadily compiling a list of global cooling findings. And aides report that they have received countless e-mails from scientists worldwide supporting the theory. While Inhofe hasn’t indicated that he will move forward with the information anytime soon, his aides continue to compile it.

Republicans aren’t the only ones who are wary of hastily passing a greenhouse gas bill. Ten Democrats wrote to Senate leaders earlier this year, citing economic concerns as a key reason why they didn’t vote for the Senate’s cap-and-trade bill.

And despite Democrats’ pickups in the Senate this fall, several of the new Democrats are from conservative, energy-producing states and may not be supportive, either.

But congressional aides say it could be a long wait before lawmakers are comfortable pushing science that contradicts the global warming theory. And until the lobby gains traction, skeptics plan to continue pushing their ideas by arguing for protection of the economy, where they hope to meet middle ground with global warming supporters.

“Never underestimate the ability of Congress to offer nonsolutions to problems that do not exist,” said Marc Morano, communications director for the Republicans on the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee. “We could spend weeks arguing the mounting scientific evidence refuting man-made warming fears,” he added, “but it’s the economic arguments that have the most immediate impact.”

At the Cato Institute, senior fellow Patrick Michaels, a contributing author of the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, said most of Washington is already too deeply entrenched in the global warming mantra to turn back.

“You can’t expect the scientific community to now come to Washington and say this isn’t a problem. Once the apocalypse begins to deliver research dollars, you don’t want to reverse it,” said Michaels. “Washington works by lurching from crisis to crisis.”

Despite the growing science, the world’s leading crusader on climate change, Al Gore, is unconcerned.

“Climate deniers fall into the same camp as people who still don’t believe we landed on the moon,” said the former vice president’s spokeswoman, Kalee Kreider. “We don’t think this should distract us from the reality.

http://www.rebelnews.org/science/climate/s...ng-20081127939/
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12-24-2008, 12:54 AM,
#2
Scientists urge caution on global warming
Surely the hidden agenda with all these GW denial promotions is the NWO plan to "take over the Earth" on a green agenda?

Why don't you admit it, Nik?
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12-24-2008, 03:28 AM, (This post was last modified: 12-24-2008, 03:30 AM by ---.)
#3
Scientists urge caution on global warming
Quote:Surely the hidden agenda with all these GW denial promotions is the NWO plan to "take over the Earth" on a green agenda?

Why don't you admit it, Nik?

LOL what's this curio of mind gaming?

can you expand on the rationale with that one, please...

Are you suggesting that GW exists - however,there are planted voices of dissent as to it's veracity, so when it all comes to a head the shepherds can say 'told you so' and thereby bring about a draconian new age in an atmosphere of panicked consent? tautologies notwithstanding..

ie. I'm not quite sure which tree you are trying to lead me to bark up.

At this point in time, I'm not seeing the double bluff you're hinting at, as being the reality, tbh.
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12-31-2008, 07:49 PM,
#4
Scientists urge caution on global warming
Quote:
Quote:Surely the hidden agenda?
LOL what's this curio of mind gaming? Can you expand on the rationale with that one, please... Are you suggesting that GW exists - however, there are planted voices of dissent as to its veracity, so when it all comes to a head the shepherds can say 'told you so' and thereby bring about a draconian new age in an atmosphere of panicked consent? tautologies notwithstanding.. ie. I'm not quite sure which tree you are trying to lead me to bark up. At this point in time, I'm not seeing the double bluff you're hinting at, as being the reality, tbh.
Interesting. I couldn't see a "double bluff" at all.

Isn't the "NWO" the reason for your non-belief in GW?
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12-31-2008, 11:46 PM, (This post was last modified: 01-01-2009, 09:26 PM by ---.)
#5
Scientists urge caution on global warming
Quote:Interesting. I couldn't see a "double bluff" at all.

Isn't the "NWO" the reason for your non-belief in GW?

Okay, I understand what you mean now. The simple answer would be - no.

I wouldn't even state that I have a complete dis-belief in global warming either.

Did you satisfy yourself one way or the other as to whether the ex-IPCC scientists are shilling for oil companies or not?

I don't believe CO2 is the climate driver that people like Gore espouse it as being.

Al Gore with his falsified data and very lucrative carbon offsetting companies :rolleyes:

I see skull and bones man Kerry is on the meery-go-round now too. Wonderful.

There's no doubt in my mind that, regardless of it's validity or otherwise, GW presents a absolute 'gold mine' in implementing more layers upon layers of insidious social controls...surely, we can see that beginning - should one delve into reading material as to what is happening in terms of prospective and actualising 'green legislation.'

In stark how any data regarding cooling or solar activity is so aggressively pounced on by the CC activists - I know, I hung out with them lot for years. 'It's because it detracts from the important issues!!! CO2 only! Anything else is delusion and dangerous! Give me a break. It's a bloody cult. Bloody, unfortunately looking apt to be the operative word. There's more than one way to skin a cat as there is more than one way to 'cull'.

I don't for a second doubt that humans are impacting severely on the macro environment, however, isolating this fact as a clear apparent - that's where I deviate, well away from the otherwise brewing meme cauldron.

I don't support the contention that their are too many people. Applying the upper bound theorem to make this statement - and we hear it everywhere nowadays - one must have deduced what is an acceptable number too..

They never really mention THAT part.

So many people I used to be good friends with in the UK are really obsessed about CO2 - to the extent that the advantageous social control aspect is clearly being illustrated in what they say, what they advocate. They are brainwashed. It's a cult. Really.

It troubles me how their consciousness is ostensibly viewed as being 'aware' yet they are green nazis waiting for their (eco)batteries to be put in. Believe I've raised the issue when I've been on trips to the UK. Jeez, I know how doctor frankenstien felt seeing those flaming torches coming up the hill. Someone should put on Miller's crucible transposed to the Green theme. LOL

I do believe that our very incarnate existence is governed by the whims of elites from cradle to grave and also that the stage is being very clearly prepped for a new scene - a think a lot of the set and props are going to be removed.

It's worrying.Horrible. I am a father.

I don't raise skepticism as to GW due solely to knowledge that there is a ruthless elite, no.

Of course the two are not mutually exclusive but I would hope it possible to argue the case against the former without it being fundamentally reliant upon disseminating information about the latter..if you catch my drift.

Happy New Year :)
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01-01-2009, 09:12 PM, (This post was last modified: 01-01-2009, 09:19 PM by JazzRoc.)
#6
Scientists urge caution on global warming
That's a damn good reply.

We are in as complete an agreement as one could expect.

No quality scientist will shill, for then he loses his self-respect. They are all very paranoid about being found to be wrong. What the proportion of honest-to dishonest scientists is these days is anyone's guess. (I couldn't judge, nor would I bet my life on it.)

I once sat down and worked out that the Earth could support 30Bn as long as it sorted its priorities out. SO long ago that I don't remember a single step or thought process involved... (I reckon that we could EASILY resolve all problems if we weren't screwing each other every single moment of every single day. If we all received education and health services guaranteed by someone we could trust. Bootstraps!)

This "sorting of priorities" unfortunately includes some of the activities you fear so much.

How else to resolve the "tragedy of the commons"?

* What really bugs me is "they" seem to be willing to use supercomputers to work out the vast equation of the Earth's weather, when no less an action is required for totalizing the vast sum of human activity. If it were known (to the man-hour) what the task of self-sustenance of the human population (rising as it may well be) entailed, then a lot of answers and decisions would pop into place which no-one (excepting the odd dictator) could easily disagree with.
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01-02-2009, 12:06 AM, (This post was last modified: 01-02-2009, 02:48 AM by ---.)
#7
Scientists urge caution on global warming
Yes, I agree the deeply entrenched delusions proliferate in our societies are the biggest obstacle to getting anywhere..the kicker is that so called progressive thought and 'solutions' are now being apparently proffered but unfortunately coming from the same bastards who have been bleeding us all along anyway.

I will never dig my own grave for the executioner.

I think in terms of many resources the tragedy of the commons is circumvented by active community participation. Relatively small groups working in wider cooperation. I think the late Murray Bookchin was often 'on the money' as to the 'hows' to making such structures feasible.

I met an anti-globalist organizer from the Canadian Postal Workers' Union, at a conference in Southern India once. I was deeply impressed by his confidence that such cooperative community organisation could work and it can. He was an anti globalist but IMHO the postal workers globally illustrate a truly functioning model of global cooperation outside of the box of multinationals and super-rich speculators, banking cartels and the various manifestations of 'old money'. The farmers there too had successfully got Monsanto on the back foot and were actively seeking ways to protect the commons - as it was previously with the seed sharing culture, let's not forget.

There's a lot to be learnt from indigenous practices - I remember reading jared Diamond commenting on a tribe in PNG that if a member slew a pigeon they would wait a number of days before taking another and then only if it was flying in a different direction,apparently. Clever.

Of course this won't work for everyone and a resurgence of 'community value' will be worrying for some strike alone individual's - potentially some manner of Coasian checks and balances could be employed..I'm more fuzzy on this as it requires deep deep study and thought in terms of protecting 'the commons' whilst not impinging on individual rights and freedoms to the extent that is being advocated in the annals of power currently.

Removal of Corporate Personhood legislations which have aided American behemoths to fleece the public at large - internationally,can only help IMHO. Possibly it would be a bit late now though.

Managing to sabotage this all pervasive 'me' culture and re-invigorating the notion of 'us' would hurt either. It doesn't necessitate the disintegration of 'I' to realise the importance of 'we'.

I do advocate 'sharing the wealth' too - some of our number have a problem with this but, to me, the wealth is essentially not in 'our' hands anyway! LOL sharing it would benefit ALL but the very few that hoard it for themselves anyhow as a means to control the planet - and it's resources.

An end to biomedical patents.

Preoccupation with Darwinian models of human behaviour are vicious memes that need to be done away with. If the maxim of 'survival of the fittest' actually held true then we'd see no altruism existent today whatsoever and that clearly is not the case.

Regulation of commons such as the air (in terms of negatives like pollution) etc. wouldn't necessarily be problematic if we had just and responsible elect officials. The problem stems largely due to the absolute corruption at the top and the pandering to monolithic corporate interests who are addicted to gambling and greed and left completely free to run amok Them and the eugenicsts;)lol

It may be simplistic but I am a great believer that in getting 'enough' greed is not at all as potent a motivation. In small groupings we have the instinctive capacity and ability and intelligence to manage the commons - and cooperation is mutually aiding. It requires a destabilisation of the 'now' meme and to facilitate less aggressive labour markets. There's plenty of poor countries out there that would accept a reasonable deal rather than the Chinese model. imo But potentially that boat has already cleared the harbour.

I was in a super store the other day and I swear there must have been a bank of more than 150 televisions, screens all mounted on the wall and broadcasting the same silent images in unison. It is of course deeply hypnotic as intended. I don't need the gadgets and trinkets myself, so much. Simple things like not having them switched on at once incessantly would be indicative of starting to use brain power..
such a radical thought though:rolleyes: If someone wants to see the definition of a tv they're prospecting to buy, it's not such a puzzler to switch it on, have a look and switch it off again. ie all considerations of overbearing big brother aside for a moment - we are way too wasteful. The manner of expansion by humans into the Americas is testament to this. All those stupid fucking little flags people had on their cars here during the world cup - not only do I find the stench of national fervour grotesque anyhow but I came across some crazy calculation somewhere that worked out all the extra benzine comsumption in the country during the world cup due simply to the wind drag from these flags. People have to get their head out of their asses and come to terms with the fact that the care free phase is now well over. and start being proactive of their own volition because the other scenario is rapidly coming into effect ,where the Orwellian boot is just now being laced up ready to stomp us for our 'own good'.

and it's the children that are the main targets for indoctrination for green hells of gattaca. I often think on what junk they will try and infuse into my boy's thoughts, with any luck I'll be able to counter it enough in real time along the way that it won't take hold in the first place.

One of the biggest difficulties is that people have become so very passive and brainwashed and of course the have nots ask why can't I have this too? I want it - now!

We have to know ourselves and not the images we are conditioned to be and together unravel the coils of this market python that is strangulating us. Unfortunately it would appear the majority of the species is delusional in one way or another and it is apparent that the roots of the problem go further back into antiquity than many can get their heads round.

Science can of course be used for the benefit of all but my feeling right now is that it is actually being used as the greatest tool of our oppression and retardation.

Sorry I couldn't give a more point by point run down on the hows and wherefores but it's just a basic on the spot reply.

and perhaps it's all moot anyhow, I don't doubt for one moment that the bastards will pull out all the stops to drive us into the chasm so they can rebuild from the select fragments that were earmarked for survival.
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01-02-2009, 05:06 PM,
#8
Scientists urge caution on global warming
Quote:I don't doubt for one moment that the bastards will pull out all the stops to drive us into the chasm so they can rebuild from the select fragments that were earmarked for survival.
There's the rub, eh?

How can this logically-derived train of thought (totally negative) change itself into a positive mode of action?
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01-02-2009, 05:46 PM, (This post was last modified: 01-02-2009, 06:15 PM by ---.)
#9
Scientists urge caution on global warming
Quote:
Quote:I don't doubt for one moment that the bastards will pull out all the stops to drive us into the chasm so they can rebuild from the select fragments that were earmarked for survival.
There's the rub, eh?

How can this logically-derived train of thought (totally negative) change itself into a positive mode of action?

Not that long in the tooth but I('ve) spent years trying to do my bit for positive social change. Often the result having been getting beaten with telescopic rods,bounced about in the back of police vans whist quick cuffed and not restrained,fumbling cops trying to pressure point techniques they just learnt how to do, having CS gas canisters fired AT us in Prague, having to leave the country secretly! Mates beaten up in Genoa etc etc etc.

Making permaculture collectives, working with socially excluded youth, community action etc etc

You tell me..

Personally I'm concentrating on my immediate environs and those I need to try and protect nowadays. Should a spark ignite in the popular consciousness where I live then I will join in and employ my knowledge as to public order situations and police tactics.

Otherwise, pessimistic as it sounds, I view it as a done deal.

However, I don't think my reply to you was 'totally negative' whatsoever - if you care to read it again you'll see that I am forwarding constructive ideas as to how we might organise.

Perhaps if I was back in the UK I'd have more scope but as far as I can tell the analysis here in East Germany amongst the alternative community is completely askew. Everything revolves around the left right dialectic - there's no big picture unfortunately.

oh, and the usual CO2 cultists.

There's a small voice about the 200 or so CCTV cameras in this city - perhaps that's an inroad.

The freundliche revolution was a bit of a fuck up imo ;)

But don't get me wrong there's a lot of good spirit here - but you certainly can't discuss the holocaust with the left - and the hub of so called 'anti-deutsche' activity bans the wearing of palestinian scarves in their joint - you'll understand if I am a little dismayed by the blanket pro-Israeli sentiments here by all those who are 'conscious'. It's a VERY sad and worrisome state of affairs when the fascists have a better understanding of certain topics :(

I can't do shit from here in East Germany - apart from the repercussions of decades of conformity and Stasi fear, the people generally are pretty good although the dialogue is very localised and Germanic centric - I intend 2009 to be a year of establishing some contacts though and getting some of these local anarchists to consider some issues and things they might not have before.

To be absolutely honest, if it were not for the fact that my son is German born and this is where his mother lives I would much rather also be living the beach bum life, on the Cabo de Gato in the south of Spain as it suits me much finer:D
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01-02-2009, 05:57 PM,
#10
Scientists urge caution on global warming
i just wonder what this conversation would of been like in the early 80s. What we "know" hasn't really changed, just how we think about the data.

I for one can see that regardless of the data, the agenda is more obvious. As the statement to good business sense goes
"There are no problems just opportunities". this is the mantra i watch out for in the world.

Global warming is a reality to those who think they can make money out of it as well as those who want the world to be a better place.

Global warming denial also has its money men. they can see that if they carry on as normal the money keeps rolling in. There is a smaller group i feel in this side of the fence thinking they are actually improving the world by keeping the status quo.

As far as the NWO? I wonder about the motive behind what they are doing if global warming is NOT a reality. They can do alot with 6bill people in the world. and less with 2. Thats a given. so what would be the motivation behind population control? resources are stretched..... we cant keep doing this forever. ANYONE with any sense and nothing to gain can see that.

However that isnt the best answer. If you consider what people in power wish to achieve AND what they want to keep.
Im talking best intentions here guys. The dilemma for the elites is this.

6bill ppl can live on this planet fine. however the way that they live at present is not conducive with survival. If we got them into a fuel less economy, where they made their own energy, cleanly, we would all survive but....... they wouldn't need us....... This....for me is the crux of all of this.

Power over all must be maintained at all costs. so you cant hold 6bill people to ransom using fuels as a drip feeder as this is killing us and our home. but with 2 billion we might just survive and we can still "maintain control".

A balance being struck.
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01-02-2009, 08:17 PM,
#11
Scientists urge caution on global warming
Quote:you cant hold 6bill people to ransom using fuels as a drip feeder as this is killing us and our home. but with 2 billion we might just survive and we can still "maintain control".
A good motivator for action, that one.

Don't get held to ransom. Don't let them "maintain control".

That IS positive. And arguable.
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01-02-2009, 08:26 PM, (This post was last modified: 01-02-2009, 08:26 PM by JazzRoc.)
#12
Scientists urge caution on global warming
Nik, whenever I argued, I always found that people suspected my motives.

The best thing to do is act for yourself, and maybe people will get drawn in and included with your actions. I've always admired the "guerilla gardeners", who, although condemned to a city apartment life, "liberate" communally-vandalized urban areas on a constant basis.

It's a cheering example of the best of humanity to the rest of us.

Alternatively, (as you know) become self-sufficient and demonstrate to others the possibility...

And, of course, NEVER support, subscribe to, or defend, the opposite point of view.
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01-03-2009, 08:35 PM,
#13
Scientists urge caution on global warming
agreed jazz:) becoming self sufficient is the answer for the common man. but elites are terrified at having thier powerbase taken away. Thats my explanation.
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01-06-2009, 11:58 AM,
#14
Scientists urge caution on global warming
Quote:To be absolutely honest, if it were not for the fact that my son is German born and this is where his mother lives I would much rather also be living the beach bum life, on the Cabo de Gato in the south of Spain as it suits me much finer:D
You're welcome to visit El Medano. You might like it. Jobs are very short, though.
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01-06-2009, 02:24 PM,
#15
Scientists urge caution on global warming
Quote:
Quote:To be absolutely honest, if it were not for the fact that my son is German born and this is where his mother lives I would much rather also be living the beach bum life, on the Cabo de Gato in the south of Spain as it suits me much finer:D
You're welcome to visit El Medano. You might like it. Jobs are very short, though.

Many thanks for the offer, JR. I might even take you up on it somewheres along the way:D
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