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Questions about Gnostic Christianity
10-07-2009, 08:00 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-07-2009, 08:11 PM by triplesix.)
#1
Questions about Gnostic Christianity
So, since I abandoned the faith I have never really looked back but in the course of conspiracy theory research have been inundated with strange Christianity. The most recent discovery I've come across is the Nag Hammadi library.

Now, there is obviously a very strong "KJV" movement which believes the King James' Version of the Bible is the only true word of God. I find this interesting because this seems to me to be the least trustworthy edition as it is a translation from a corrupt time period. I would expect a "back to the original" movement in Christianity to focus on at least Greek editions from far closer to Christ's own time.

Anyway, so in thinking about perhaps there being a truer Christianity that has been glossed over by manipulation, and always knowing about the Dead Sea Scrolls and their being through conspiracy prevented from revising the current established Gospel, and then learning about the Nag Hammadi library, I decided to post this thread to seek an expert on the forum, as I know the Religion and Occult section has some avid contributors. If you cut through my BS you can establish that I am lazy and wish to profit through someone else's thorough research with a quick summation.:P

My question is, for those who know, just how much does KJV Christianity differ from the more historically contemporary Gnostic and, dare I say, complete Christianity? Would you say that the difference is especially important when it comes to end of times and the rapture? Why do you think TPTB prefer the KJV edition over the reality of the 'scriptures?' I guess, to tie it all together, do you believe, with your expanded perspective of Christianity, that the conspiracy-related Christian hullabaloo that is all over the internet is a result of outside New Age hack and/or 'Illuminati' disinformation, direct within-Christianity false-flag 'Illuminati' manipulation, or is just a natural result of evangelism mixing with a gradual exposure of the conspirators behind the New World Order? On a relatively tangential note, what relevance does gnoticism have to Christian mystery religion, Freemasonry, or the relative religious leaning of the 'Illuminati?'

Of course I'm interested in anyone's thoughts on the(se) subject(s).
&We grow to recognize form. We grow to label that form. In doing so, do we become more intelligent? Do we become more awakened?& - Siji Tzu 四季子
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10-07-2009, 09:40 PM,
#2
Questions about Gnostic Christianity
Just wondering, does it say "son of God" anywhere in the Nag Hammadi library, besides this verse?
"The perfect Savior said: "Whoever has ears to hear, let him hear. First Begetter Father is called 'Adam, Eye of Light,' because he came from shining Light, and his holy angels, who are ineffable (and) shadowless, ever rejoice with joy in their reflecting, which they received from their Father. The whole Kingdom of Son of Man, who is called 'Son of God,' is full of ineffable and shadowless joy, and unchanging jubilation, (they) rejoicing over his imperishable glory, which has never been heard until now, nor has it been revealed in the aeons that came afterward, and their worlds. I came from Self-begotten and First Infinite Light, that I might reveal everything to you."

What do you view the collection as? Generally, is it more accurate than the current bibles?

ED: Just curious cause I never heard of this collection until you mentioned it and I searched it.
[Image: Palestinian_Dawn_by_Palestinian_Pride.jpg]
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10-13-2009, 01:35 AM,
#3
Questions about Gnostic Christianity
Quote:Just wondering, does it say "son of God" anywhere in the Nag Hammadi library, besides this verse?
"The perfect Savior said: "Whoever has ears to hear, let him hear. First Begetter Father is called 'Adam, Eye of Light,' because he came from shining Light, and his holy angels, who are ineffable (and) shadowless, ever rejoice with joy in their reflecting, which they received from their Father. The whole Kingdom of Son of Man, who is called 'Son of God,' is full of ineffable and shadowless joy, and unchanging jubilation, (they) rejoicing over his imperishable glory, which has never been heard until now, nor has it been revealed in the aeons that came afterward, and their worlds. I came from Self-begotten and First Infinite Light, that I might reveal everything to you."

What do you view the collection as? Generally, is it more accurate than the current bibles?

ED: Just curious cause I never heard of this collection until you mentioned it and I searched it.

'Son of God' appears to be quite common in the Nag Hammadi library. You can search keywords in the collection here: http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhsearch.html.

As to the KJV, a friend of mine beginnning his religious studies degree asked his tutor which translation of the Bible to use. The tutor told him any modern translation was ok but to avoid the King James completely.
Spreading disinformation in an obvious manner.
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10-13-2009, 04:39 PM,
#4
Questions about Gnostic Christianity
I came across the Nag Hammadi library while researching the Eden story. Interestingly enough they got various versions of the story in their scriptures and in all they are talking of plural deities that ran the show then and there, namely the "Archons". Similar to the plural character of "Elohim" or the Anunaki in sumerian tradition. Which means 1) the two creation myths in the bible are not describing the same event (rather the first talking about the creation of the universe, while the second talking about the (re)creation or tweaking of the human race), and 2) the quarrel between "God" and the snake is in fact a quarrel between different parties of the deity race(s). Some gnostics flip around the role of these two parties, in the sense that they see the god(s) of Eden as envious, oppressive entities, and the snake as a liberator and bringer of knowledge. Hints some medieval art showing Jesus as the snake that gives Eve the fruit. Basically I see the gnostics as seekers of true knowledge, but like with any movement you get different school of thoughts sooner or later. Some remain moral, others get corrupted, and (high-degree) Freemasonary/Illuminatism is surely a branch of the latter.

Quote:I guess, to tie it all together, do you believe, with your expanded perspective of Christianity, that the conspiracy-related Christian hullabaloo that is all over the internet is a result of outside New Age hack and/or 'Illuminati' disinformation, direct within-Christianity false-flag 'Illuminati' manipulation, or is just a natural result of evangelism mixing with a gradual exposure of the conspirators behind the New World Order?

I think that's just another part of the whole mix-up. Although I believe there are some honest christians which see through the illuminati plot, I'm afraid that they might get caught in the trap because the endgame the conspirators will come up with will look like Revelation coming true. It's the blueprint behind their agenda and possibly they will draw the most part of christianity behind them with that strategy.

I'm rather allergic to the evangelists because of their unbelievably narrow mind set and their 'language', but if they are able to pick sense from their nonsense (= believe system), that's ok with me... as long as they don't bother me ;-)
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10-14-2009, 02:06 PM,
#5
Questions about Gnostic Christianity
I'm not a theologian or even big into organized religion but the Jesuits were big against the KJV bible and any British Monarch that was supported it. It was created to counter the constant Roman Catholic adjustments to the bible and create a more literal translation of the bible using older texts as a reference. It was responsible for forming the Protestant branch of Christianity. The Vatican / Jesuits manipulated Spain to attack and slaughter hundreds of thousands of Protestants.

I recently watched a video by Evan Sadler supporting the above claims. I haven't cross referenced them yet. Any insight into his beliefs.

Who is Undermining our Monarchy and Freedoms (Vatican vs British Empire)(Evan Sadler).avi
http://concen.org/tracker/torrents-details.php?id=10169

There are no others, there is only us.
http://FastTadpole.com/
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10-16-2009, 04:37 AM,
#6
Questions about Gnostic Christianity
Interesting input, thanks.

As far as the KJV actually being a retaliation against the Catholic church, this never really occurred to me, honestly, but it makes sense. Seeing as how it was heretical at the time of its creation as far as the Pope was concerned I'd think. Still I think there are older translations that would be better, and I understand there have been some extremely scholarly modern translations from very old sources. I'd think these would be the ones people would want, not arbitrary ones from history.

As far as gnoticism goes I think it has a fair bit to do with many of the secret societies or at least the mysticism that they wrap themselves in just to shroud their insignificance or corruption, one or the other.

I'd be interested in perusing them more carefully if I thought there might be some evidence of ancient alien visitation hidden within the psychobabble. I'm currently trying to read the Bhagavad Gita to see if I can get some insight into mention of extraterrestrials or alien visitation.

I'm interested in historical accounts of UFO anomaly because I am not sure whether to believe they are a new phenomena, are man-made, or whatever. It's sort of an odd direction from which to approach apocryphal scripture but c'est la vie.
&We grow to recognize form. We grow to label that form. In doing so, do we become more intelligent? Do we become more awakened?& - Siji Tzu 四季子
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10-19-2009, 01:22 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-19-2009, 01:36 PM by Justinfinity.)
#7
Questions about Gnostic Christianity
If you wish to know more about Gnosticism, a good book to pick up is Not In His Image: Gnostic Visions, Sacred Ecology, and the Future of Belief, by John Lamb Lash.

Here's a quote from it:

Quote:In their [the Gnostics] protest against what they perceived as a grave deviation for humanity [Christianity], Gnostics did not loose a monster on the world, however. They faced a monster already on the loose, one that had been growing strong for several centuries. It is a monstrous error of the human mind, they argued, to make suffering into a righteous cause for those who inflict it, and a divine, redemptive calling for those whom it is inflicted. The monster the Gnostics confronted was inhuman, but would make all humanity its instrument. It is the victim-perpetrator bond diabolically exploited, disguised as a love connection, and glorified to the heights of heaven.
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10-20-2009, 11:54 AM, (This post was last modified: 10-20-2009, 12:55 PM by standvast.)
#8
Questions about Gnostic Christianity
Hi Triplesix.

Quote:I decided to post this thread to seek an expert on the forum, as I know the Religion and Occult section has some avid contributors. If you cut through my BS you can establish that I am lazy and wish to profit through someone else's thorough research with a quick summation.

I dont claim to be knowledgeable but i can give you some points to read up on concerning Gnosticism

If you haven't at any time, i think it may be beneficial to read up on the beliefs of the Cathars / Albigensians,
and to understand why their theology is essentially anti-thetic to Catholicism , or at least ... so much different that they were
perceived as a direct threat to the church and it's authority.
One can go as far back as one wishes,.. Manicheism and certain Zoroastrian offshoots contributed much eschatologically
to what is concidered Gnostic thought , one could argue that without these predecessors there would
not have been a "Christianity" in the form in which we know it today.

Quote:My question is, for those who know, just how much does KJV Christianity differ from the more historically contemporary Gnostic and, dare I say, complete Christianity? Would you say that the difference is especially important when it comes to end of times and the rapture?

The Gnostics sects of which enough is known to make assertions about their beliefs in concrete manner,
had such a radically different interpretation (starting at Genesis) that they we're seen as "anti-christian", by those claiming to be the sole correct Christians.
I don't think that the composers of the KJV were Gnostics in the sense of adhering to a truely Gnostic interpretation of scripture,..
i think they held a slightly different and reactionary theology than expounded by the vatican, but not one based in Gnostic beliefs.
one could argue that some of the original composers of biblical scripture had a "Gnostic " interpretation in certain aspects,
but in essence Gnosticism holds the belief that the creator of this world is a demiurge, instead of a benevolent devine patriarch,
which is were the essential difference between a Gnostic view and a Catholic or most other "Christian" schools of interpretation becomes evident.

peace'
If Thine I that I spy with my own little I Doeth Offend thee ; Pluck It out.

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10-20-2009, 05:26 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-20-2009, 05:43 PM by Justinfinity.)
#9
Questions about Gnostic Christianity
Let's also not forget that the Gnostics weren't merely worshipers of some belief system... they were initiates of the Mysteries. They were scientists and philosophers in every way, too. They were extremely intelligent, to say the least.

As standvast said, their belief structure was more "concrete". More rightfully so, they 'followed' the laws of nature and our planet, which is heaven (or hell) right now as we wish.

What they saw in Christianity were extremely apparent to them, that Christianity was unjust, and just plain out twisted, in numerous aspects. They spoke against this openly, which is probably why the Church had them slaughtered as this new religion was on the rise.

In my opinion, it can also be said that the Church stole and perverted many principles from the ancient Gnostics - that the Gnostics are responsible for the creation of the Jesus archetype which is a personification of man and who he is. In which the Church externalized and made them (the Christians) 'worship' in name of their perverse dogma that they're the authority and leaders of. The Gnostics knew Jesus never existed, and like many of the Gods of the Mysteries all over the ancient world, was merely to be understood as man himself - the living, all-knowing, ever-present, self of every individual.

There are the people who understand the principles of the Mysteries (the SELF), and those that think these archetypes meant to educate those who are willing to know, and to weed-out the toxic ones who think these are actually real external divinities - that is, those who have no sense of self and aren't willing to learn. The Church merely took advantage of those of the latter, and created a whole corrupted system based on this mentality by perverting ancient and sacred knowledge. Not to say these Powers That Be weren't extremely intelligent themselves, as they've proven by infiltrating and turning the ancient Mystery Schools into Secret Societies to keep the knowledge from those who do want to know, and making them vehicles to control and set up a hierarchy under this toxic mentality. Remember too, that the Pope appointed Kings in Europe. It was always the Priests behind the thrones carrying out the orders of the Church. So when the Church wanted the Gnostics out, the King merely followed orders and gave orders to the armies and the people of the land to slaughter these people. The Vatican is gruesome and disgusting in every way.
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11-07-2009, 10:16 AM, (This post was last modified: 11-07-2009, 10:22 AM by tehCaveman.)
#10
Questions about Gnostic Christianity
The KJV is by far the best choice out there,
Well documented and easily cross-referenced with the septuagint (300BC),
Torah, dead sea scrolls, etc...

The KJV contains neither errors of fact nor internal contradictions.

Gnostic writings are twisted with Greek philosophy and concepts.
One of the practices of the Gnostics was to delete portions of the scripture.

Quote:They were extremely intelligent, to say the least.
Romans 1:22
Professing to be wise, they became fools

[Image: bib1.jpg]
[Image: bib2.jpg]
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