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Sprayed Aerosols Could Ease Climate Woes
03-27-2009, 02:05 AM,
#46
Sprayed Aerosols Could Ease Climate Woes
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:If you mean around the airfield, yes, you can smell burnt kerosine, but only to a distance of a mile. No-one I know has ever suffered or died...

You mean personally?? "That's what's known as an apocryphal story. Back it up with evidence."
LOL.:)

There was one officer, who contracted cancer, and was given six months to live. He upped sticks, bought a large camper van, and drove his family to Australia, and when he arrived, it was discovered he was absolutely healthy.

On the other hand, my father was a RAF Station Accountant Officer, with secondary duties as a Station Radiation Officer. He contracted cancer of the oesophagus, and took two years to die, haven taken 10,000 codeine pills, of a ruptured carotid artery, bleeding to death in two minutes, at my feet.

Apart from that, I know of no-one who died as a consequence (possibly) of burnt kerosine fumes.

That's pretty harsh :(

We know that JP-8 has been widely adopted by commercial carriers - as oppose to previously having been essentially used by the military - and it appears that the primary driving factor in that has been private profit.

An abstract about JP-8 toxicity tests:

Quote:JP-8 is a kerosene-based fuel widely used by the U.S. military. Various models of human occupational and animal exposure to JP-8 have demonstrated the potential for local and systemic toxicity but the mechanisms involved are unknown. The purpose of our investigation was to study the molecular mechanisms of JP-8 toxicity by using an in vitro model. JP-8 exposure in a rat lung alveolar type II epithelial cell line (RLE-6TN) induces biochemical and morphological markers of apoptotic cell death: caspase-3 activation, poly(ADP-ribose) polymerase (PARP) cleavage, chromatin condensation, membrane blebbing, cytochrome c release from mitochondria, and genomic DNA cleavage into both oligonucleosomal (DNA ladder) and high-molecular-weight (HMW) fragments. The human histiocytic lymphoma cell line (U937) also responds to JP-8 with caspase-3 activation, cleavage of caspase substrates, including PARP, DNA-PK, and lamin B1, and degradation of genomic DNA with the production of HMW fragments. Caspase-3 activation and PARP cleavage also occur in the acute T-cell leukemia cell line (Jurkat) following treatment with JP-8. Furthermore, Jurkat cells stably transfected with a plasmid encoding the antiapoptotic protein Bcl-x(L) or pretreated with the pan-caspase inhibitor Boc-d-fmk, are relatively resistant to the cytotoxic effects of JP-8 compared to control cells. Finally, we demonstrate that PARP cleavage occurs in primary mouse thymocytes exposed to JP-8. In conclusion, our data support the hypothesis that apoptotic cell death is responsible at least partially for the cytotoxic effects of JP-8 and suggest that inhibition of the apoptotic cascade might reduce JP-8 toxicity.

http://www.biomedexperts.com/Abstract.bme/...pithelial_cells

Problem with investigating this issue is that one has to pay $ money to access the relevant papers..

It's clear the stuff is none to healthy to be sucking in though.
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03-27-2009, 04:36 AM, (This post was last modified: 03-27-2009, 04:37 AM by ---.)
#47
Sprayed Aerosols Could Ease Climate Woes
Quote:
Quote:Better yet, disprove it.

Why should I bother to disprove something you have JUST MADE UP?:lamer:

Wish I had made it up, but I'm not that smart. CDC, Dr Mercola, and many more that keep records of respiratory ailments are what I base this on. Circumstantional evidence. There have been low flying releases that left residual on buildings. Those that track the sky and then those that monitor sickness. Chance? Doubt it.
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03-27-2009, 11:44 AM, (This post was last modified: 03-27-2009, 12:10 PM by JazzRoc.)
#48
Sprayed Aerosols Could Ease Climate Woes
The fraction of petroleum which comes off at the still at the DECANE level (it's a column) is NOT EXACTLY decane.

Decane means TEN carbon atoms, in a CHAIN, with TWENTY-TWO hydrogen atoms satisfying the spare carbon bonds.

What comes off at that level are ALL THE ISOMERS AT THAT PRECISE MOLECULAR WEIGHT - with some "scatter".

There are 165 of them - some in very small quantities. Quite a few of them aren't good for you; they are either poisonous or teratogenic or both.

It has ALWAYS been so. The stuff is meant to be burnt, not drunk or breathed.

People have been dying from it (on the odd occasion, and with the cause attributed elsewhere) ever since the stuff has been extracted and flogged off.

It has only been analyzed carefully within the last forty years (when chromatography was discovered). Before that people cheerfully assumed it was just PARAFFIN (OK you guys in the states - KEROSINE).

(to the tune of the toreador song)

"Esso Blue, Esso Blue, Esso Blue, Esso Blue, Esso Blue, Esso Blue, Esso Blue, Esso Blue, .... " (croaks)
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03-27-2009, 12:22 PM, (This post was last modified: 03-27-2009, 12:24 PM by JazzRoc.)
#49
Sprayed Aerosols Could Ease Climate Woes
Quote:Wish I had made it up, but I'm not that smart. CDC, Dr Mercola, and many more that keep records of respiratory ailments are what I base this on. Circumstantial evidence. There have been low flying releases that left residues on buildings. Those that track the sky and then those that monitor sickness. Chance? Doubt it.
Technically, chance doesn't enter the equation at all. If someone dies, it HAS to be of something - even if it is a powerful cosmic ray shower.
If nothing assaults a healthy person, than that healthy person must live a complete natural life - although towards the end the slightest thing might be sufficient to "tip" one.
Associating a smell in the air with a low overflight and a respiratory infection seems too far to go for me. I'd look closer to home - is there an outbreak of infectious disease in the vicinity, does the person travel by public transport or teach at a school or work at a hospital, or live downwind from cedar plantations or crops with pollens, or an electrical substation, or motorway or plastics factory or insulation board manufacturer, etc.?
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03-27-2009, 12:34 PM,
#50
Sprayed Aerosols Could Ease Climate Woes
if the residue on the buildings couldn't be explained by pollens etc - then the absolute nature of precluding the option of it having been residue from overflights as an absolute no way seems too devout to me. It shouldn't be taken as a given that people are never subject to secret and sometimes harmful mass experiments - the evidence is starkly to the contrary, after all.

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03-27-2009, 11:20 PM,
#51
Sprayed Aerosols Could Ease Climate Woes
Quote:if the residue on the buildings couldn't be explained by pollens etc - then the absolute nature of precluding the option of it having been residue from overflights as an absolute no way seems too devout to me. It shouldn't be taken as a given that people are never subject to secret and sometimes harmful mass experiments - the evidence is starkly to the contrary, after all.
The evidence against is the thousands of installations of equipment like this:
[Image: homeminivol2.jpg]
Airmetrics manufactures the MiniVol™ TAS, which samples ambient air at 5 liters/minute for particulate matter (PM10, PM2.5, TSP). While not a reference method sampler, the MiniVol™ TAS gives results that closely approximate data from Federal Reference Method samplers. Lightweight and portable, the MiniVol™ TAS is ideal for remote areas or locations where no permanent site has been established.

These natty little items of equipment, and their bigger counterparts, will be found wherever there is deemed to be a need to know what's in the atmosphere. They are used by weather stations, schools, hospitals, factories, food-processing plants, airfields, and govt. institutions.
If something ODD turned up in their filters, is it reasonable to suppose that NO-ONE would notice and reach for their whistle? (Rhetorical)
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03-27-2009, 11:24 PM,
#52
Sprayed Aerosols Could Ease Climate Woes
Hmm, let's have a look into it.
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03-28-2009, 05:16 AM,
#53
Sprayed Aerosols Could Ease Climate Woes
I did however find this:

Germany becomes the First Country to admit Clandestine Chemtrails Operations

For all those activists who have been investigating and reporting on clandestine government operations around the world to manipulate our weather patterns, this news from Germany is groundbreaking.
The TV news report states that “the military planes of the German Federal Army are manipulating our climate; this is what the weather researchers are presuming and their suspicions are confirmed…

“We can staTe with a 97% certainty that we have on our hands chemical trails (chemtrails) comprised by fine dust containing polymers and metals, used to disrupt radar signals.”


“This is their main purpose, but I was surprised that this artificial cloud was so wide-spread. The radar images are stunning considering the needed tons of dispersed elements -- although, the federal army claims that only small amounts of material were propagated. The military heads claim that the substances used are not harmful.”
“In the United States of America there are protest after protest for many years now, against these military operations and now people are mobilising in Germany as well. Per example JOHANNES REMMEL of the Greens.
“It's obvious that enormous regions are being polluted with clandestine actions, but all of this has to be made public. The government must provide explanations to the unsuspecting population.”

This is where it is http://www.greatdreams.com/chems.htm .

I have to wonder if it is an agenda of depopulation, or like many things that have gone astray Maybe they have good intentions but poor understanding of possible outcome. Looking back at Agent Orange, DDT, and a host of other chemicals... who knows.
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03-28-2009, 07:28 PM,
#54
Sprayed Aerosols Could Ease Climate Woes
Council on Foreign Relations on Planetary Geoengineering (analysis from prisonplanet)
http://www.prisonplanet.com/council-on-for...e%E2%80%9D.html

Beijing blanketed by snow after China seeds clouds to beat drought
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle5766595.ece
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03-28-2009, 11:06 PM, (This post was last modified: 03-28-2009, 11:25 PM by JazzRoc.)
#55
Sprayed Aerosols Could Ease Climate Woes
Quote:Germany becomes the First Country to admit Clandestine Chemtrails Operations
Well, it's our old LIARS Scie Chimiche at work again, not content with their scandalously-fraudulent "Inside a Chemtrail Sprayer", here they turn up with a scandalously-fraudulent LYING mistranslation of German into English.

Clandestine Chemtrails Operations Hilly's Arse

The big problem with the video is the translation. In the shot above, the german word "duppel" is translated as "chemical trails (chemtrails)", when the actual translation is "chaff". The German word for "chemtrail" is "chemtrail".

This has been seized upon by the Chemtrail community as evidence that "chemtrails" are real, and that the German government has admitted they are spraying "chemtrails". Unfortunately the entire video is a very bad translation of a story about one Meterologist, Karsten Brand, who is was concerned that the military was using too much chaff (anti-radar fibres). The military admitted that they do use chaff, but not too much, and it's not harmful. Brandt contend they use so much it can affect the weather, and might be harmful to people. He's also annoyed because it interferes with his weather radar. The Meterologist behind all this, Karsen Brandt, actually goes out of his way to distinguish these odd cloud images from "chemtrails", in this article, translated,

http://www.worldweather.net/news/specials....how&id=5947

Karsten Brandt asks: "Are they Chemtrails"?
Following the publication of pictures of non-existent clouds on the radar we have been asked many questions.
On various Internet sites there passionate arguments about aircraft spraying chemicals to either change the ozone hole or, acting for the United States (who else ?), to change the weather - for world domination. This is - according to the supporters of this conspiracy theory - not just an occasional trail, but regular, worldwide and especially in Germany. The sprayed chemicals supposedly leave greyish-white trails in the sky that are not like normal contrail, "Chemtrails" look quite different and also behave differently.
The beauty of this conspiracy theory is this: everyone can see the trails, everyone may feel threatened, but no (normal) citizens can touch or examine them. The web pages show photos of various trails, and the "strange" patterns they leave behind in the sky. For the layman, it is, at first glance, odd that one day contrails stay in the sky for hours, but the next day they dissolve within minutes. However, this phenomenon varies with the humidity and the change is very easy and simple to explain.
Of course we also cannot absolutely exclude the possibility that a plane sprayed chemicals in the atmosphere. But as regularly and as extensively as has been claimed by the conspiracy theorists, common sense tells you otherwise. For a comprehensive worldwide conspiracy, there would have to be not only thousands of pilots involved, but also airfield staff, scientists, authorities, etc. How probable is it that with such a great number of people involved, there wasn't a leak?


Another rather obvious distinction is that Brandt is talking about invisible clouds, whereas "chemtrails" are very visible (since they are aircraft contrails).
There are other problems as well, as pointed out in other places: The German sentence which appears on screen is: "Die Aufzeichnungen belegen, dass dabei sehr geringe Mengen von Duppeln ausgebracht werden"
The English sentence that's blended out at the same time reads: "The registers report emissions of chemtrails at low altitudes" (Note that you never see the full version of both sentences at the same time. One is wiped out as the other is filled in)
The actual translation should be more like: "The reports show that very small quantities of chaff were used". So what's the real story here? Well, here's the background of the story in German:

http://www.donnerwetter.de/news/specials.m...how&id=6718

It's a letter written to the local government in April 2006, describing false images of clouds that show up on weather radar, and asking if there have been military tests that explain these tests. Here's a rough translation:

Mr Ralf Briese (Greens), received on 04.04.2006
Mysterious weather phenomena on North German country - threat hazards for humans and the environment through military experiments?
Several reputable media reported recently mysterious phenomena in the sky over the North German countryside. In July last year an apparent cloud up to 400 km long was registered on various radar screens of different weather stations, although the sky was neither cloudy nor did it rain. This inexplicable radar phenomenon was repeated at the end of March 2006. The German meteorologists are faced with a mystery. Thus, for example, says Karsten Brandt, meteorologist and director at the weather service in Bonn: "Gosh, there's something wrong here." Together with weather experts from Germany and the Netherlands, Brandt agreed that it was neither flocks of birds nor dumped aviation fuel. Similarly, radar equipment failure was excluded, since the same images were recorded independently in the Netherlands, Emden and Hanover.
Meteorologists from the whole federal territory suspected clandestine military experiments. Joerg Asmus, a meteorologist at the German Weather Service in Offenbach, assumed that the military were either inducing changes in weather or simulating terrorist attacks (see DER SPIEGEL 13/2006 - 27 March). Even physicists from the German Center for Air and Space in Oberpfaffenhofen, and Bundeswehr geoscientists came to the conclusion that particles in the atmosphere had been intended to disturb the precipitation radar. The Federal Environment Agency's experts take the phenomenon seriously. Apart from the legal issues, which authority allowed these experiments and by whose authority, are environmental and health issues.
I therefore ask the provincial government: Is it aware of the phenomena reported in North Germany? How are they evaluated and explained? The provincial government must respond to the assessment of meteorologists, geologists and physicists, to these inexplicable weather phenomena and radar records of military experiments, otherwise no serious recourse will be found. Has the state government knowledge of such military trials in North Germany with the goals of anti-terrorism or influencing the weather? Are these tests health hazards to humans and nature? Which country or authority would be notified of such military trials? Following what standards are such experiments allowed?
(To the State Chancellery sent on 10.04.2006 - II/721 - 506)

Here is the response (the "admission"):

Reply from the state government
Lower Saxony Ministry Hannover, 24.05.2006
For Home Affairs and Sports

On behalf of the State Government, the brief response is as follows:
According to the available information, neither the Ministry of Internal Affairs and Sports nor the other participating departments (MS, C, MU) can answer these issues facing the state government. For this reason, to clarify the issue a request for information on the questions has been sent to the Ministry of Defence. The parliamentary and Cabinet Department stated in a letter dated 28.04.2006 the questions answered as follows:

The Ministry of Defence has no knowledge of the reported phenomena. There are no records available. At the stated time there were no national air force exercises, tactical checks or similar aviation activities. According to a study of radar records of the Air Force, we found that at the end of March 2006, in the night of 22 On 23.03.2006 about 1 hour before the occurrence of the phenomenon in Dutch airspace an aerial combat exercise took place. The records show that very small amounts of chaff were issued, but which had demonstrably dispersed after about 1 hour. The possibility of causing such a phenomenon in the magnitude described by active electromagnetic radiation can, because of the physical principles, can be excluded in principle. Only the spreading of very specific chaff in significant quantities (in the range of several tons) could generate such a phenomenon. The self-protection equipment of aircraft of the German Armed Forces and allied forces in the context of air combat exercises can expel only a fraction of that amount. The Air Force has no electronic interference device that could produce a phenomenon of this dimension. The Bundeswehr is not conducting experiments that could cause such a phenomenon. The Bundeswehr is not conducting military trials with the goal of anti-terrorism or influencing of weather.


Summary: A meteorologist sees cloud images on radar that he thinks are not actual clouds, he estimates they are 400 km long. He asks the government (via his local Green Party member) if they made these clouds with chaff. The government denies this, but says maybe the Dutch might have, but probably not clouds that big.

It's a bit of a stretch from this to "German government admits to clandestine chemtrail activity".

Oh, and by the way, I worked out that a 400 Km long cloud of the indicated size required 80 TONS of chaff. Seeing as it was a flight of only TWO Eurofighters, that didn't really seem possible, as that is their COMBINED WEIGHT.

So, Hilly, this is OLD, and it is a BIG LIE. It is a BIG OLD LIE.

HILLY, ANSWER ME THIS: if "chemtrails" were the TRUTH, why do chemtrailers have to LIE at all?
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03-28-2009, 11:46 PM,
#56
Sprayed Aerosols Could Ease Climate Woes
The thing that annoys me with this whole debate is that plenty of the 'information' out there could well be controlled - and as such pounced upon by scientists and debunkers like JR - no offence JR

As JR and I already established last year - no one really knows whether there are any actual spraying programmes in operation or not.

But as time goes along it certainly seems that a lot of the vocalisation and submitting of 'evidence' in the chemtrail community may actually be a ruse in itself.

I refuse to dismiss the idea that there are no instances of spraying whastoever - there are cases with enough anomalies and circumstantial evidence to contend that in some instances there may well be a valid claim.

Once again, everything is corrupted by absolutism - either there isn't ANY spraying OR we are being sprayed on a grand scale ALL the time.

farewell nuance - you were nice to have around :rolleyes:
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03-29-2009, 06:16 AM,
#57
Sprayed Aerosols Could Ease Climate Woes
HILLY, ANSWER ME THIS: if "chemtrails" were the TRUTH, why do chemtrailers have to LIE at all?

I'm not sure why, error or purposeful. I just don't buy into the "they are all true or all are liars", but I can semi see your point. I will says thanks for the clarification of the facts in the mistranslation.

There is too much circumstantional evidence to the effects, either deliberate or by accident chemicals in the air in many health problems, especially respiratory ailments in relation to activity. Usually where there is smoke there is fire. Yes, I agree with what you said earlier about looking for other clues closer to the source in many cases. On could also look at Teflon non stick coating in pans as a source, though it is usually responsible for cancers. Just as Alzheimer's is associated with aluminum which is contained in many things, even Deodorants, or Flouride.

I did find this on Asthma & Chemtrails http://educate-yourself.org/cn/asthmachemt...ms04mar05.shtml , but not what I read 2 years ago when I first started researching diseases, before I even heard of chemtrails. Actually it didn't even call them chemtrails in the article.

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03-29-2009, 03:56 PM, (This post was last modified: 03-29-2009, 04:12 PM by JazzRoc.)
#58
Sprayed Aerosols Could Ease Climate Woes
It's OK Hilly, it is right to be concerned about such things. I am sure your heart's in the right place. "Educate Yourself" is a good idea in principle, but your site seems a lot more like "Indoctrinate Yourself with our complete Crapola Course". I have seen it before, of course.

Gnerally speaking, if you want to find truly professional opinions on ANY such matters, you should use "advanced search" in Google, and put into "exclude" words like "chemtrail" "chem trail" "aerosol" and all related words (you KNOW which!).

That will remove amateur opinion, and many thousands of unwanted responses, leaving you with proper research, palpable facts, quantified data, and decent information.

And Nik, it will be a pleasure to get back to nuances. After the above.:)
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03-30-2009, 01:45 AM,
#59
Sprayed Aerosols Could Ease Climate Woes
Actually the Educate Yourself is pretty much accurate with cancer treatments and other health issues and treatments. The cancer part is very good, right there with cancertudor.org, that I know from experience. I don't read there and try what they suggest after reading, but rather found them after my own trials of what works and don't.

I'll try yout suggestion though on the search terms.
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04-04-2009, 09:40 PM,
#60
Sprayed Aerosols Could Ease Climate Woes
recent news samples on how the climate manipulation debate is being framed by progressive environmentalists...


Memo to DARPA, Pentagon: Stay out of geoengineering — aka climate manipulation!
http://climateprogress.org/2009/03/16/darp...geoengineering/


MPs call for government geo-engineering strategy
http://www.businessgreen.com/business-gree...-government-geo


Global warming demands more than do-gooder actions. It demands "geoengineering"

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/04/...ring/index.html
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