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[split] Slavery
02-09-2013, 05:42 PM, (This post was last modified: 02-10-2013, 09:34 AM by Frank2.)
#31
RE: Slavery
SIGH


(02-09-2013, 05:07 PM)macfadden Wrote:
Frank2 Wrote:you are alienatingIunderplaying the intrinsic energetic foundation of all forms of creation and dissolution.

Yeah, that's not what I'm doing, not at all. Do you understand the difference between energy and power? or energy and information? You are drastically oversimplifying an exceedingly complex and intricate dynamic. fujjin does this to push his propaganda, what's in it for you?

Spass


(02-09-2013, 05:07 PM)macfadden Wrote:
Frank2 Wrote:Your conceptions of spontaneous organisation in a sociological frame are lacking scope.


Easy to say but I doubt you have an actual substantive criticism to back it up, your half-assed off handed commentary is what's "lacking scope".
I doubt that. Maybe later, presently I don't think your postings warrant that much energy...or, at least, I don't think so, maybe someone else does, put it that way..

(02-09-2013, 05:07 PM)macfadden Wrote:
Frank2 Wrote:But then it is apparent you are applying your conceptual model as an all emcompassing model whether stardust forming planets, lichen or football hooliganism..this probably goes someway to conflate what you are attempting to say.

You're conflating it in your own head. To be sure, there is an element of that primordial cosmic principle at work within human society but at the level of human activity where consciousness, intelligence, and agency come into play, the dynamic becomes far more complex. Human beings and human society may be an expression of the principle to some degree, but the human capacity of agency is by nature conscious and deliberate so it is by no means the pure expression of the principle that we find in lower life forms and inanimate objects.
Ah! So you are a Theosophist. Alles Klar.

(02-09-2013, 05:07 PM)macfadden Wrote:
Frank2 Wrote:
(02-09-2013, 03:35 PM)macfadden Wrote:
Frank2 Wrote:Ah, so you believe in intelligent design then?

How in the hell do you arrive at that?
>>>
MacFadden Wrote:An abundance of energy does not automatically lead to complexity, but the right combination of sufficient amounts of information, intelligence, creativity, innovation all but guarantee it..
Alles Klar?

Well it's pretty dishonest to take my quote out of context like that, I was speaking of social complexity... human social complexity.

It is not dishonest at all, just an illustration.

(02-09-2013, 05:07 PM)macfadden Wrote:
Frank2 Wrote:
(02-09-2013, 03:35 PM)macfadden Wrote: Nothing I've stated has anything even remotely to do with ID.
LOL Depends on how you look at it.

Not really, I guess you can misinterpret, misunderstand, misconstrue, mistake, or deliberately misrepresent, but nothing I have stated has anything even remotely to do with ID.

Depends on how you look at it. Sorry for illustrating your cognitive dissonance with your own words.


(02-09-2013, 05:07 PM)macfadden Wrote:
Frank2 Wrote:
(02-09-2013, 03:35 PM)macfadden Wrote: And for the record, NO, I do not believe in intelligent design, but I do have a very strong rationale for the existence of a supreme or absolute being.

How would they not be mutually inclusive?

They are not mutually inclusive by any means. I don't feel like giving a full discourse on it but the short version goes: an absolute infinity would naturally give rise to a void and a void born of an absolute infinity would naturally emanate a cosmic reality out of its own emptiness. The nature of infinity being as subtle and mysterious as it is, these emanations just emerge organically without requiring any sort action, volition, intent, or design.

Good, I don't want to plow through one of your "full discourses"..thanks. Fuehrermorte, just as you don't want to present "a full discourse" I don't want to spend the hour or so to substantively criticise the loose bolts in your edifice.
(02-09-2013, 05:07 PM)macfadden Wrote:
Frank2 Wrote:
(02-09-2013, 03:35 PM)macfadden Wrote:
Frank2 Wrote:Btw. MacFadden, your analysis upon the spectre of Anarchism is lacking

Whatever man, anarchism refutes itself, it's predicated on a ludicrously optimistic view of human nature. Anarchism is just the flip-side of extreme totalitarianism, the extremes of either end of the political spectrum. I'm a realist, pragmatist, not a crazy idealist, so I avoid extremes and tend to focus on that which is realistic.
I never said I was an Anarchist. I simply said your analysis was not without obvious flaws.

My analysis is basically that anarchism is a utopian pipe dream indulged in by people who are divorced from all reality. So where's the flaw?
During the Spanish Civil war.. the anarchist's were delusional and divorced from reality? How so?

(02-09-2013, 05:07 PM)macfadden Wrote:
Frank2 Wrote:
(02-09-2013, 03:35 PM)macfadden Wrote: I do agree with much of anarchist criticism regarding the current overall scheme of things, but the prescription of anarchism as the solution is laughably childish.

The choice and adoption of the phrase "laughably childish" denotes, belies, confirms your derision ergo overly subjective perspectives on the subject.

Yeah, no. That does not follow. I don't subjectively despise anarchism, I reject it because it has no objective practical reality to it. It has no objective practical reality to it ergo I find it absurd and ergo I ridicule it... ergo.

A deeply read political theorist such as yourself would no doubt be aware of simple concepts, such as German Marxist, Ernst Mandel's prescription of cycles of time relating to marginalised political ideologies..in his case, he was referring directly to Marxism but the concept is applicable across the "political spectrum". It is not my fault you have dogmatic notions..I hope I have gone a small way in highlighting the incongruity between statement and belief in your quasi intellectual output, ergo I am off to make myself a fried egg sandwich...it contains acetylcholine, don't you know


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“The truth, of course, is that a billion falsehoods told a billion times by a billion people are still false.” Travis Walton
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02-11-2013, 07:25 PM, (This post was last modified: 02-11-2013, 07:42 PM by macfadden.)
#32
RE: Slavery
Frank2 Wrote:I doubt that. Maybe later, presently I don't think your postings warrant that much energy...or, at least, I don't think so, maybe someone else does, put it that way..

Coming from the guy who just recently vowed to relentlessly troll stalk me all over the forum, lulz.

Frank2 Wrote:Ah! So you are a Theosophist. Alles Klar.

Self organization is not a Theosophical idea nor does social complexity have anything to do with Creationism. What in the hell are you talking about?



Frank2 Wrote:It is not dishonest at all, just an illustration.

Illustrating that you are very confused and not above resorting to crappy transparent gimmicks in order to score a few cheap points with the less intelligent among us.

Frank2 Wrote:
(02-09-2013, 05:07 PM)macfadden Wrote:
Frank2 Wrote:
(02-09-2013, 03:35 PM)macfadden Wrote: Nothing I've stated has anything even remotely to do with ID.
LOL Depends on how you look at it.

Not really, I guess you can misinterpret, misunderstand, misconstrue, mistake, or deliberately misrepresent, but nothing I have stated has anything even remotely to do with ID.

Depends on how you look at it. Sorry for illustrating your cognitive dissonance with your own words.

If there is some way of looking at the causes of human social complexity that involves and somehow necessitates Creationism then I would love to know exactly how that might work. The only thing you have managed to illustrate is the incoherence of your own unsound, unbalanced state of malcognizance.


Frank2 Wrote:Good, I don't want to plow through one of your "full discourses"..thanks. Fuehrermorte, just as you don't want to present "a full discourse" I don't want to spend the hour or so to substantively criticise the loose bolts in your edifice.

Dude, your bolts are more than just loose, you are freaking unhinged. As for your ability to "substantively criticise" anything, well, based on your output so far, let's just say I have my doubts. I'll bet you have to "plow through" quite a bit of lucid, coherent, logically consistent thought that is even the least bit complex. Say high to the anunnaki for me when you cosmically ascend to the next plateau, lulz.


(02-09-2013, 05:07 PM)macfadden Wrote:
Frank2 Wrote:My analysis is basically that anarchism is a utopian pipe dream indulged in by people who are divorced from all reality. So where's the flaw?
During the Spanish Civil war.. the anarchist's were delusional and divorced from reality? How so?

Are you talking about their crushing defeat or about the CNT's entrance into government? I'd say reality asserted on Spanish Anarchy's ass with a swift and merciless vengeance. Chalking up that colossal and dismal failure as a success is the height of hilarity.


Frank2 Wrote:A deeply read political theorist such as yourself would no doubt be aware of simple concepts, such as German Marxist, Ernst Mandel's prescription of cycles of time relating to marginalised political ideologies.

Yeah and let me set you straight on that, Anarchy is not an idea whose time has not yet come, Anarchy is a fancy whose animal does not exist.

Frank2 Wrote:It is not my fault you have dogmatic notions..

I hold pragmatic notions that are aligned with reality, Anarchism is nothing but dogmatism, a prescriptive divorced from reality based on entirely erroneous notions of human behavior that are thoroughly contradicted by common sense and common experience.

Frank2 Wrote:I hope I have gone a small way in highlighting the incongruity between statement and belief in your quasi intellectual output

Hate to dash your hopes here, Frank, but all you've managed to do is show your ass. My output is commonsensical, it's intelligent and rational but definitely not intellectual, quasi or otherwise. It's simple without being simplistic. I'm a simple man, Frank, but others I could name are just simple minded simpletons.


Frank2 Wrote:ergo I am off to make myself a fried egg sandwich

ergo you're a cannibal.
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02-11-2013, 07:38 PM,
#33
RE: Slavery
sure sure, whatever bro . can't be arsed, have a good one!!
“The truth, of course, is that a billion falsehoods told a billion times by a billion people are still false.” Travis Walton
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02-11-2013, 07:49 PM,
#34
RE: Slavery
Frank2 Wrote:can't be arsed

No, Frank, I'm afraid you can't.
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02-11-2013, 07:56 PM, (This post was last modified: 02-11-2013, 08:08 PM by Frank2.)
#35
RE: Slavery
(02-11-2013, 07:49 PM)macfadden Wrote:
Frank2 Wrote:can't be arsed

No, Frank, I'm afraid you can't.

yeah, that is what i said..


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“The truth, of course, is that a billion falsehoods told a billion times by a billion people are still false.” Travis Walton
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02-11-2013, 10:02 PM, (This post was last modified: 02-11-2013, 10:03 PM by macfadden.)
#36
RE: Slavery
(02-11-2013, 07:56 PM)Frank2 Wrote:
(02-11-2013, 07:49 PM)macfadden Wrote:
Frank2 Wrote:can't be arsed

No, Frank, I'm afraid you can't.

yeah, that is what i said..

I know it is, Frank, I know it is.
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02-12-2013, 12:13 AM,
#37
RE: Slavery
Isn't this thread supposed to be about SLAVERY?
Paix, Amour et Lumiere
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02-12-2013, 07:20 AM,
#38
RE: Slavery
I don't even know where to start splitting this thread to get it back on topic.

/mod drops ball
There are no others, there is only us.
http://FastTadpole.com/
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02-13-2013, 06:15 AM,
#39
RE: Slavery
Just leave the first post and split the rest, FT.
Reply
02-13-2013, 07:08 AM, (This post was last modified: 02-13-2013, 07:43 AM by macfadden.)
#40
RE: Slavery
fujiinn Wrote:Some primitivist had this to say: Exceptions that prove the rule, part 2: the Kwakiutl

Understanding the conditions, causes and consequences of cultural change has been an important research focus in anthropological archaeology. To explain the mechanisms of long-term cultural change among hunter-gatherers, and their transition to agriculture, scholars have considered environmental change, technological developments, subsistence practice, mobility, settlement size, population pressure, craft specialisation, long-distance trade, social inequality, labour organisation, historical contingency, human agency, creativity and cultural logic (e.g. Hayden 1995; Kelly 1995; Price & Feinman 1995; Cannon 1998; Jochim 1998; Bettinger 1999; Arnold 2001; Fitzhugh & Habu 2002; Habu et al. 2003; Fitzhugh 2004; Prentiss & Kuijt 2004; Sassaman 2004). Over the past couple of decades, there has been a general shift away from ecological models that focus solely on subsistence settlement systems to alternative models that emphasise the importance of social landscapes and human agency.

http://anthropology.berkeley.edu/sites/default/files/Habu%20Growth%20%26%20Decline.pdf


Henry's conclusion that hunter-gatherer complexity was an outcome of change in the environment due to the end of the Pleistocene ignores the fact that hunter-gatherer complexity crosses temporal and spatial boundaries. For example, evidence of hunter-gatherer complexity at Keatley Creek occurs some 7,000-9,000 years after the close of the Pleistocene. Likewise, huntergatherer complexity crosses environmental zones from the temperate zone of the Natufians to the semi-arctic conditions at Keatley Creek. Furthermore, recently there has been discussion as to whether the change in environment was that substantial at the end of the Pleistocene. Braidwood studied the identification of the physical effects of plants and animals and the documentation of the environmental events between 10,000b.c. (the close of the Pleistocene) and the appearance of "settled village life." This Study allowed Braidwood to conclude, "It seems most unlikely that there was any significant differences between then and now in generalland-fonns and rainfall patterns" (Binford and Binford 320). Also, Henry's almost random explanation as to the rise of complexity seems simplistic. Even if abundance becomes available, it does not necessarily mean that social stratification will suddenly arise

http://soar.wichita.edu/bitstream/handle/10057/1889/LAJ%2029_p6-15..pdf;jsessionid=A4B477D583413E19FE60A32DC7418D0C?sequence=1
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