Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Ayn Rand a Soviet Plant?
12-07-2012, 08:45 AM, (This post was last modified: 12-07-2012, 08:51 AM by macfadden.)
#16
RE: Ayn Rand a Soviet Plant?
(12-06-2012, 01:46 PM)Infinite Wrote: You guys are a bunch of communists promoting lies and bullshit.

Randroid lulz are always extra lulzy.

(12-06-2012, 01:46 PM)Infinite Wrote: 'Protectionism' means licking government boots. That I can't make a trade with someone who lives in another part of the world without paying a fee to someone called 'government' that has nothing to fucking do with it.

It all depends on who is protecting what from whom, protectionism can be used for good or it can be abused. I like protectionism when it is keeping out unfair competition but I dislike protectionism when it allows big monopolies to extort and gouge the public.

(12-06-2012, 01:46 PM)Infinite Wrote: And your theory is asinine, Marx was an idiot who didn't know what the hell he was talking about and his system was and always will be an absolute disaster. Yet you take him word for word on his 'analysis' of capitalism? The guy was talking out of his ass.

I think you have missed the point. The point is not whether Karl Marx was ultimately right about free markets eventually leading to a people's revolution, the point is that the Soviets believed Marx was right and so they commenced with active measures to hasten the inevitable, they sent in their red pawn, they sent in Alisa Zinov'yevna Rosenbaum to do the dirty.


(12-06-2012, 01:46 PM)Infinite Wrote: Fuck Karl Marx, fuck protectionism and fuck government.

Fuck tha po-leese fuck tha po-leese fuck'em

LULZ



(12-06-2012, 01:46 PM)Infinite Wrote: You can't be against conspiracies unless you oppose the conspirators

Do you mean the crazy corpo-fascist legislators and elected officials that have taken over the government and are blatantly acting against the public interest because they are in fact the bought and paid for agents of the ultra elitist superclass of the dominant minority? The same private interests who fund the teabagger movement and its neoliberal agenda?

(12-06-2012, 01:46 PM)Infinite Wrote: not inviting them to run your life for you because you feel you're too weak and stupid to do it.


People really should take over their governments and make their governments work for them in their best interests, I agree.


(12-06-2012, 01:46 PM)Infinite Wrote: Yes, free trade might be responsible for breaking down some old traditions. If that's the case it's because people don't like those particular traditions and don't want to take part in them any more once they're not forced to.


"Free trade" is responsible for decimating peoples and cultures because while the peoples are free to trade they are not free to not trade and they are not free to negotiate the terms of the "free trade". Free trade in reality is free pillage, free rape, free plunder.


(12-06-2012, 01:46 PM)Infinite Wrote: Yes a free market of ideas is the natural result of a free market society. People are free to actually pursue their own interests and discover their own values rather than have a pre-set fate shoved down their throats by control freak psychos who think they know what's best for everyone.

So vote with your dollars everybody. Lulz$$$$
Reply
12-07-2012, 03:37 PM,
#17
RE: Ayn Rand a Soviet Plant?
(12-07-2012, 08:45 AM)macfadden Wrote: People really should take over their governments and make their governments work for them in their best interests, I agree.

Not possible. Governments have never worked for the best interests of the people, and never will, nor could.

This is why you should become an Anarcho-Capitalist like me Macfadden. Chill pill
Reply
12-10-2012, 02:45 AM,
#18
RE: Ayn Rand a Soviet Plant?


Reply
12-10-2012, 06:06 AM, (This post was last modified: 12-10-2012, 06:30 AM by macfadden.)
#19
RE: Ayn Rand a Soviet Plant?
(12-07-2012, 03:37 PM)CharliePrime Wrote:
(12-07-2012, 08:45 AM)macfadden Wrote: People really should take over their governments and make their governments work for them in their best interests, I agree.

Not possible. Governments have never worked for the best interests of the people, and never will, nor could.

Well, all unfounded pessimism aside, government invariably serves the best interests of the group that is best interested in governing. It's not that government doesn't work or that it can't work, it's simply that government only works for those that work it. Now it could be argued that 'the people' doesn't work, due largely to ignorance and apathy. 'The people' doesn't know how to work government(ignorance) and even if it could be bothered to learn(lazy, incurious, stupid) it can't be bothered to bother making government work in its, 'the people' that is, best interests(apathy).

So to sum up, Government works, 'the people' doesn't. 'The people' doesn't work because 'the people' is stupid, lazy, ignorant, incurious, and apathetic. How on Earth could you ever have an anarchy with 'the people'? The sad truth is that 'the people' did have, indeed still does have a fair shot at anarchy but 'the people' blew it(and will continue to do so) and then 'the people' blamed it all on the Jews.


(12-07-2012, 03:37 PM)CharliePrime Wrote: This is why you should become an Anarcho-Capitalist like me Macfadden. Chill pill

[Image: 995089062.jpg]
Reply
12-10-2012, 12:02 PM,
#20
RE: Ayn Rand a Soviet Plant?
(12-10-2012, 06:06 AM)macfadden Wrote: ...government invariably serves the best interests of the group that is best interested in governing.

I agree. That's the problem. Government is the idea that it is moral for one group of people to use violence to extract sustenance from another group of people.

This is call theft, or stealing. I admit I do not understand how you believe a society based upon violent stealing is rational or preferable.
Reply
12-11-2012, 03:53 AM, (This post was last modified: 12-11-2012, 04:12 AM by macfadden.)
#21
RE: Ayn Rand a Soviet Plant?
Meat is not murder, tax is not theft. You would have to pay for civilization one way or another and you would pay just as much, if not more, if you were to contract with private entities rather than establish a tax funded government to create the infrastructure and provide the services necessary for civilization to exist. You are going to pay regardless and it's not like the government just takes your money and gives you nothing in return, you get civilization in return for your tax dollars, a fair deal by any standard.

Reasonable people should demand reason and reasonableness from all human beings, it is reasonable that everybody ante up and kick in their fair share. If some people won't see reason and refuse to be reasonable then reasonable people are left with no other choice but to resort to an appropriate and reasonable measure of violence for bringing the unreasonable individual or group back into compliance with the fair and reasonable strictures and obligations which have been very reasonably imposed upon them as beneficiaries of a fair and reasonable society.
Reply
12-11-2012, 04:45 AM,
#22
RE: Ayn Rand a Soviet Plant?
(12-11-2012, 03:53 AM)macfadden Wrote: ...If some people won't see reason and refuse to be reasonable then reasonable people are left with no other choice but to resort to an appropriate and reasonable measure of violence for bringing the unreasonable individual or group back into compliance with the fair and reasonable strictures and obligations which have been very reasonably imposed upon them as beneficiaries of a fair and reasonable society.

Packs of apes fighting other packs of apes to see which pack can more effectively loot the other.

Good luck with your Better Predator Contest.
Reply
12-11-2012, 05:54 AM, (This post was last modified: 12-11-2012, 05:56 AM by macfadden.)
#23
RE: Ayn Rand a Soviet Plant?
(12-11-2012, 04:45 AM)CharliePrime Wrote: Packs of apes fighting other packs of apes to see which pack can more effectively loot the other.

Good luck with your Better Predator Contest.


Do you understand that the reason governments are instituted among men is primarily to prevent warring pack apes from destroying society and to prevent one ultra dominant group of pack apes from enslaving society?

"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men"

"to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

"to provide new Guards for their future security"

Maybe one day anarcho-capitalism will be freely adopted by all the peoples of the Earth and maybe one day the lion will lay down with the lamb and the wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den. And maybe one fine day we will all just get along, and maybe one day there will be pie in the sky as we all sing kumbayah in non aggressive fellowship on top of the hard rock candy mountain. Maybe one day...



Reply
12-11-2012, 06:49 AM,
#24
RE: Ayn Rand a Soviet Plant?
(12-11-2012, 05:54 AM)macfadden Wrote: Do you understand that the reason governments are instituted among men is primarily to prevent warring pack apes from destroying society and to prevent one ultra dominant group of pack apes from enslaving society?

Do you understand that one ultra dominate group of pack apes has already enslaved society?
Reply
12-11-2012, 07:04 AM, (This post was last modified: 12-11-2012, 07:06 AM by macfadden.)
#25
RE: Ayn Rand a Soviet Plant?
(12-11-2012, 06:49 AM)CharliePrime Wrote:
(12-11-2012, 05:54 AM)macfadden Wrote: Do you understand that the reason governments are instituted among men is primarily to prevent warring pack apes from destroying society and to prevent one ultra dominant group of pack apes from enslaving society?

Do you understand that one ultra dominate group of pack apes has already enslaved society?

No, society may be gudgeoned by bamboozlement but society is definitely not "enslaved". People like to throw that word around but they have no conception of what it is to truly be slaved out. If anything society is attaining to ever greater degrees of freedom and more people are more free and prosperous now than at any other time in history. Things are better than they have ever been thanks largely to the evolution of democratic constitutional republican systems of government, the evolution of social conscience, and technology.
Reply
12-11-2012, 10:00 PM, (This post was last modified: 12-11-2012, 10:00 PM by CharliePrime.)
#26
RE: Ayn Rand a Soviet Plant?
(12-11-2012, 07:04 AM)macfadden Wrote: No, society may be gudgeoned by bamboozlement but society is definitely not "enslaved".

I made a new thread regarding your freedom.

It's here: http://concen.org/forum/thread-47922.html
Reply
12-14-2012, 09:58 AM,
#27
RE: Ayn Rand a Soviet Plant?
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
John Rogers, on the blog Kung Fu Monkey
Reply
12-28-2012, 01:41 AM, (This post was last modified: 12-28-2012, 07:34 AM by macfadden.)
#28
RE: Ayn Rand a Soviet Plant?
(11-21-2012, 09:14 AM)macfadden Wrote: Alisa Zinov'yevna Rosenbaum is "edukated" in social pedagogy at the premiere Soviet revolutionary institute of higher learning, trained in propaganda at State Technicum for Screen Arts in Leningrad, given the code name "Ayn Rand", and then sent off to the United States.


Karl Marx and Frederich Engels agree, Ayn Rand has been a true "People's" champion:

Quote:Why Karl Marx Advocated Free Trade (Capitalism)

Peter Myers, Canberra, Australia, August 2, 2001; update January 7, 2003. My comments are shown {thus}. Write to me at contact.html.

http://mailstar.net/classwar.html.

Karl Marx advocated Free Trade, i.e. Capitalism, because (a) whereas Protection builds up the nation-state, Free Trade breaks it down, as a prelude to the creation of a world-state by the Capitalists (b) Free Trade breaks down traditional culture, as a prelude to the creation of a world culture © Free Trade exacerbates class warfare, and through this the Capitalists will lose control of the world-state - they will be defeated by the impoverished classes, with the help of their backers in the higher classes.

Free Trade -> Misery -> Social Revolution.

(1) Karl Marx on Free Trade (2) Frederick Engels on Free Trade (3) Trotskyists for Free Trade

(1) Karl Marx on Free Trade

Karl Marx's major statement about Free Trade was an address delivered to the Democratic association of Brussels, Belgium, on January 9, 1848, around the same time as he wrote the Communist Manifesto.

Karl Marx & Frederick Engels, Collected Works, Volume 6, Lawrence & Wishart, London 1976:

{p. 450} Karl Marx

SPEECH ON THE QUESTION OF FREE TRADE
DELIVERED TO THE DEMOCRATIC ASSOCIATION OF BRUSSELS
AT ITS PIBLIC MEETING OF JANUARY 9, 1848


"But, generally speaking, the Protective system in these days is conservative, while the Free Trade system works destructively. It breaks up old nationalities and carries antagonism of proletariat and bourgeoisie to the uttermost point. In a word, the Free Trade system hastens the Social Revolution. In this revolutionary sense alone, gentlemen, I am in favor of Free Trade. " - Karl Marx

So Marx and Engels clearly knew that Free Trade would worsen the lot of the lower classes, but advocated it anyway, as a means to achieving a World State. They were prepared to endorse an evil means, to achieve what they saw as a worthy end.

(2) Frederick Engels on Free Trade

The text of Marx' speech was translated into English by Florence Kelley, and published with an Introduction (Preface) by Frederick Engels.

Engels wrote in the Introduction to Free Trade (published by New York Labor News Company, in one volume with another text titled Wage-Labor and Capital, 1902):

"That was the time of the Brussels Congress, the time when Marx prepared the speech in question. While recognising that Protection may still, under certain circumstances, for instance, in the Germany of 1847, be of advantage to the manufacturing capitalists; while proving that free trade was not the panacea for all the evils under which the working class suffered, and might even aggravate them; he pronounces, ultimately and on principle, in favour of free trade." (Free Trade, Engels' Introduction, p.6).

So Marx and Engels clearly knew that Free Trade might worsen the lot of the lower classes, but advocated it anyway, as a means to achieving a World State. They were prepared to endorse an evil means, to achieve what they saw as a worthy end.
http://mailstar.net/classwar.html

The fact that this strategy was explicitly formulated and publicly expounded by Karl Marx 57 years before the birth of Ayn Rand, and that Ayn Rand was among the elite of the thoroughly 'edukated' Marxist Soviet citizenry lends enormous credence to the notion that Rand was in fact a Soviet plant, sent forth to American shores as an influence agent of "active measures" to promote and encourage the very same economic philosophy and political policies that Marx explicitly stated would eventually and inevitably lead to the destruction of capitalism and the establishment a world communist state.

Quote:The bourgeoisie - we read in The Communist Manifesto - cannot exist without constantly revolutionising the instruments of production, and thereby the relations of production, and with them all the relations of society. Conservation of the old modes of production in unaltered form, was, on the contrary, the first condition of existence for all earlier industrial classes. Constant revolutionising of production, uninterrupted distrubance of all social conditions, everlasting uncertainty and agitation distinguish the bourgeois epoch from all earlier ones.

{so class war, rather than an essential feature of civilized society as Marx claimed, is specifically a feature of the capitalist i.e. Free Trade economy which Marx himself promoted as a means to achieve Communist Revolution: classwar.html}
http://mailstar.net/talmon.html

And here she is, in her own words, confirming that she was well aware of Marx' prediction of the final Crisis of Capitalism that would inevitably lead to a people's revolution also confirming that she was well aware of the exact means and methods for hastening its advent. Rosenbaum aka Ayn Rand begins the talk posted below by expressly stating Marx's prediction and then for the remainder of the talk proceeds in good dialectical fashion to plant the seeds of capitalism's own destruction in the minds of all the little captains of capitalism gathered by encouraging them to be bigger, bolder, dirtier, sleazier, more unapologetic A-holes than ever before in all their exploitations of the deprived and all their capitalizations on privation. muahahaha....

Ayn Rand - Destroying Capitalism from Within




(11-21-2012, 05:56 PM)R.R Wrote: Lets not forget Marxists think essentially in terms of linear evolution. They liked capitalism up to a point as it represented the highest form of social evolution at the time in their opinion. Part of why they felt their utopias didn't work was because many of the societies they tried to impose socialism/communism on hadn't undergone the capitalist stage of development so, in a way, capitalism was a necessary precursor to socialism hence the push to capitalise the world as it will apparently lead to world socialism.
Reply
03-13-2013, 07:40 AM, (This post was last modified: 03-13-2013, 09:08 AM by macfadden.)
#29
RE: Ayn Rand a Soviet Plant?
"I gather they believe that the disastrous state of today's world is caused by a communist conspiracy. This is childishly naive and superficial. No country can be destroyed by a mere conspiracy, it can be destroyed only by ideas."
- Ayn Rand, 1964 Playboy interview

And Ayn Rand should know, the crazy vile drug addled hack of a bitch certainly did her fair share of promulgating some very destructive ideas.
Reply


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
Rainbow Rand Paul Woos U.C. Berkeley CharliePrime 0 674 03-22-2014, 03:15 PM
Last Post: CharliePrime
  What If US Collapses? Soviet Collapse Lessons Every American Needs To Know Solve et Coagula 0 922 08-22-2011, 10:09 AM
Last Post: Solve et Coagula
Tongue Drug-crazed Rand Paul kidnapped woman in reefer frenzy joeblow 6 2,752 08-11-2010, 03:53 AM
Last Post: hilly7
  Duck hunters shut down nuke arms plant. Ctrl 0 569 01-18-2010, 03:24 AM
Last Post: Ctrl
  The Occult in Russian and Soviet Culture By Bernice Glatzer Rosenthal Solve et Coagula 0 672 04-25-2009, 04:21 PM
Last Post: Solve et Coagula
  Iran counts on Russia for September launch of nuclear plant --- 1 819 03-12-2009, 02:07 PM
Last Post: rsol
  Former Soviet Agent Poisoned In London dam0 0 794 11-19-2006, 10:39 PM
Last Post: dam0
  One In Four Is On The State Payroll In Uk 'soviet Blocs' 0 534 Less than 1 minute ago
Last Post:

Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)