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The Fallen Angel - A true story about Lucifer
04-22-2009, 08:07 PM,
#61
The Fallen Angel - A true story about Lucifer
Quote:What are sins then jobujack and how do we know they are sins ? ....


Sins are something that would drive God crazy if he had to keep track of them! Good thing they don't really really exist, sins are more or less just a moral guideline to follow so that your not a total asshole goof scumbag like the thieving NWO punks!! But the ONE thing that is a SIN is disrespecting where you come from!!! :angry2:

JJ B)
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04-23-2009, 04:48 AM,
#62
The Fallen Angel - A true story about Lucifer
DHammer Wrote:it makes little difference if it seems selfish or not, its what God said we should do if we dont want to go to hell, do you understand this ?
IMO, love for God should be less about fear of hell and more about the desire to please God, following the rules set forth from God.
Hell = the second death, Jesus came to save us from the second death. - Rev 21:8
For only God is immortal - I Tim.6:16


jack Wrote:I'm not very good at it, I tend to get mad after being hurt and I like to get my way, but I try not to be like that
DHammer Wrote:compare it to Jesus, would He have to struggle with such things ? would he get mad if he was hurt ? remember he is the one who had a different type of love from birth, my guess is he didnt have to deal with what we deal, and this is why he was so different from us, and no one understood him, he was of another spirit, his belongs to God, ours to satan.
Just being honest.
Gee, I feel as tho I'm being judged, that we all are - I hope my feelings are incorrect.


Quote:Obviously Jesus knew them very well since he knows all but he never came to them to show what love is and to give it to them. do a word study and youll see the word knowing refers to experientally knowing them.
:huh:huh ? sure he did !


We are not asked to do the impossible, but the possible.

"If you love Me, keep My commandments." John 14:15

"He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him." John 14:21


If we love Jesus, we will choose to do what is asked of us, or at least try to. Yes, I admitted to it being hard at times.


DHammer Wrote:jack, ofcourse you agree with standvast , we cannot posibly agree, we believe in totally different ideas :D if anyone would agree with me it would shock me really. i know this sounds arogant but this is how rare born again christians are. if you meet 3 in your whole lifetime consider yourself lucky. i havent even HEARD of one in my whole country here, ever, and frankly i dont think i ever will.
I've agreed with you about lots over your time here, stood up for you, even gave you a gift just bc you showed an interest in it, so what if I disagree about this.
It's very rare to find even two people that are always in full agreement.
and standvast is being quite nice, I think that he should get credit for it, he could of just laughed at you. Instead he put effort into writing posts that to me, sound very nonjudgmental, I think he was trying to be helpful, - same with hilly and myself.
You might not want our help or even to hear our opinions, but what would it hurt to consider them ?


this thread seems like a waste of time,
think I go back to steering clear of this R&O forum before I get labeled as a fundie again
&Alice laughed, &There's no use trying,& she said: &one can't believe impossible things.& &I daresay you haven't had much practice,& said the Queen. &When I was your age I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.&
- Lewis Carroll

&Things are seldom as they seem ... Skim milk masquerades as cream.&
- Gilbert and Sullivan (Pinafore)

At NASA, it really is rocket science, and the decision makers really are rocket scientists.
But a body of research that is getting more and more attention points to the ways that smart people working collectively can be dumber than the sum of their parts. .. Irwin Janis? &Groupthink:& is a mode of thinking that people engage in when they are deeply involved in a cohesive in-group, when the members' striving for unanimity override realistic appraisals ? It is the triumph of concurrence over good sense, and authority over expertise.&
-John Schwartz & Matthew L. Wade
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04-23-2009, 03:15 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-23-2009, 03:18 PM by standvast.)
#63
The Fallen Angel - A true story about Lucifer
Jack Wrote:standvast is being quite nice, I think that he should get credit for it, he could of just laughed at you. Instead he put effort into writing posts that to me, sound very nonjudgmental, I think he was trying to be helpful,

:D thanks Jack,
I was/am trying to be helpful, thanks for recognizing..
but i also simply felt the scenario sketched by Dhammer was screaming for a contrast,..

Jack Wrote:think I go back to steering clear of this R&O forum before I get labeled as a fundie again

It won't be me calling you a fundie, nor will i call Dhammer such for that matter. :)

Jack Wrote:Not believing is all very logical, it's the believing part that doesn't make much sense.
I just don't understand how telling folks that they're bad will make it anymore sensible or logical.

Now, in the hope i won't be labelled "a Gnostic" , ;)
let me remark that what you've stated above is in a sense very "Gnostic"..
let me try to explain ;

Clark Emery wrote this in a commentary on William Blake,
they are central points on which most Gnostics agree,..
i've made the parts bold which i find reflective of what you said before,
correct me if i assume wrong, and please don't take it as me trying to stick a label on you.

http://gnosis.org/welcome.html Wrote:The following characteristics may be considered normative for all Gnostic teachers and groups in the era of classical Gnosticism;
thus one who adheres to some or all of them today might properly be called a Gnostic:

-The Gnostics posited an original spiritual unity that came to be split into a plurality.

-As a result of the precosmic division the universe was created.

-This was done by a leader possessing inferior spiritual powers and who often resembled the Old Testament Jehovah.

-A female emanation of God was involved in the cosmic creation (albeit in a much more positive role than the leader).

-In the cosmos, space and time have a malevolent character and may be personified as demonic beings separating man from God.

-For man, the universe is a vast prison. He is enslaved both by the physical laws of nature and by such moral laws as the Mosaic code.

-Mankind may be personified as Adam, who lies in the deep sleep of ignorance, his powers of spiritual self-awareness stupefied by materiality.

-Within each natural man is an "inner man," a fallen spark of the divine substance.
Since this exists in each man, we have the possibility of awakening from our stupefaction.


-What effects the awakening is not obedience, faith, or good works, but knowledge.

-Before the awakening, men undergo troubled dreams.

-Man does not attain the knowledge that awakens him from these dreams by cognition but through revelatory experience,
and this knowledge is not information but a modification of the sensate being.


-The awakening (i.e., the salvation) of any individual is a cosmic event.

-Since the effort is to restore the wholeness and unity of the Godhead,
active rebellion against the moral law of the Old Testament is enjoined upon every man.

(the site form the above quote also has free audio for download on different aspects of Gnosticism,
see here ; http://www.gnosis.org/lectures.html )

Now, i wouldn't say i fully agree with this ;

-What effects the awakening is not obedience, faith, or good works, but knowledge.

because i believe that a certain form of obedience (to Natural law) and the performance of "Good Works"
are just as if not More important than knowledge, for i believe that knowledge alone (without Ethics or spiritual basis) is void,
and certainly not the only aspect that aids to ones spiritual awakening / salvation.

I sorta wondered if you can find yourself in some of the above mentioned characteristics.

-------------------

A gnostic view / interpretation of Lucifer ;

http://theforbiddenreligion.com/lucifer-the-liberator.htm

Quote:Gnostic myths relate that Lucifer is the Messenger of the Unknowable God. We had said that this God, the greatest one, unreachable and unknowable, is unable to penetrate this limited universe of impure and satanic matter. But according to these myths, he can send someone, Lucifer. Only with a supreme sacrifice can an incredibly Spiritual and pure being of antimatter fire break through into the infernal world of this universe. According to Gnostic legends and myths, the great Unknowable God sent Lucifer, angel of indescribable fire and light, to show man the light and to help him wake up and see his true origin, the origin of his Spirit, which has been perversely imprisoned in this impure matter called body-soul. He is an uncreated being, who came to the created world to bring Light: Liberating Gnosis. The saving knowledge which can wake man up and help him free his imprisoned Spirit. The knowledge which allows him to know who he truly is, why he is here in this world and what he has to do to liberate himself and fulfil his Spirit, which belongs to another uncreated and unknowable plane.

We have said that Lucifer came to the world to wake man up, to help him remember his divine origin, the divine origin of his Spirit, and to help him free himself from the body-soul in which he is trapped, and from created time and matter.

Gnostics consider that the biblical myth of creation can be explained as follows: the creator satan of the world trapped Adam and Eve in his miserable world, and Lucifer, in the form of a serpent, offered them the forbidden fruit of saving Gnosis, and showed them that the creator was deceiving them. In other words, the creator said to man “but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” On the other hand, the Serpent said “You will not surely die. For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” The bible continued: “And the eyes of both of them were opened”. It doesn't say “they both died”, it says “the eyes of both of them were opened”, like the Serpent had said. Later, the creator says “And now man has become as one of us, to know good and evil”. The creator lied. He said that man would die if he ate the fruit, but man did not die. The Serpent was telling the truth. The creator himself ended up agreeing that the Serpent was right. More precisely, Gnostics called the demiurge a liar as well as a plagiarizer. For them, the entire creation is a failed attempt by the demiurge to imitate the unknowable world. In this way, they think that the bible itself is a complete plagiarism, based principally on pre-biblical Babylonian and Egyptian texts.

Gnostics believe that this Serpent Lucifer is the liberator of man and the world. It is wisdom, the liberating Gnosis that wakes man up and saves him. Of course, this Messenger of the Unknowable God, Lucifer, is an opponent and an enemy of the creator of the world.

Gnosis states that the creator wants to keep man captive in this limited, inferior and impure sphere. He also forbade man contact with the higher world, represented in the biblical myth by the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. But Lucifer, the Angel of Light, made a great sacrifice and descended into this satanic hell to give the forbidden fruit of Gnosis to man, and opened his eyes so that he would be able to remember his divine origin and his superiority in relation to the creator. Gnostics consider that before the arrival of the Serpent in paradise, man was in a state of ignorance and was blind to his true situation. They maintain that Adam and Eve were in a state of servitude until the Serpent Lucifer opened their eyes and fed them the fruit of knowledge, which made them remember their divine origin and become aware of the situation in which they found themselves.

Of course, the creator threw Adam and Eve out of this paradise in which he had placed them since he wanted them (and still does) to reflect him and be similar to him after his image and resemblance, and to carry out his precepts so as to be like him and not like the Unknowable God. He wants the Spirit to stay asleep so he can take advantage of Its energy, preventing It from manifesting Itself in man and the world.

Lucifer, liberator of man and the world, has also been called Abaddon, the Exterminator. But…exterminator of what? Exterminator of matter, because he abhors this created world of matter and time. He would behave like a hostile antimatter force, extremely aggressive, because he hates all that has been created as he also hates the body and soul of man, since he belongs to the uncreated plane of the unknowable. He is an exterminator, but an exterminator of matter, of the impure. Such is the Gnostic legend of Lucifer.

Now we can go on to describe what uncreated entities exist in this created world.

Firstly, the Unknowable God, who is not in this world but who can infiltrate it with a tiny particle of Himself, a Messenger. This Messenger is also uncreated, not having been created by the creator.

Secondly, the imprisoned Spirits of men, which also belong to the unknowable World of the uncreated and the eternal. According to Gnosis all living beings have an uncreated Spiritual element enchained in their souls: the Spirit. The Spirit locked within man is totally superior to that of animals, plants and other living beings. The difference between man and the other living beings is very great, as is the difference between the Spirits imprisoned inside of them. The Spirits of human beings are in an elevated Spiritual category.

Thirdly, another uncreated entity placed on this created plane is the saving and divine knowledge of Gnosis. Knowledge that has come from outside, which has not been produced inside of this world.
If Thine I that I spy with my own little I Doeth Offend thee ; Pluck It out.

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04-23-2009, 04:15 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-23-2009, 04:26 PM by DHammer.)
#64
The Fallen Angel - A true story about Lucifer
from what ive read in the posts you guys wrote it all comes down to understanding that there are 2 different types of love, one of them true love, the other an imitation, its ok you dont have to believe me, but this will at least clear things up for you.

When Jesus says love most of the time he means Gods love, not the one we have. the mistake here was done by the translators who used the same word to translate the different greek words.i think its the most important thing to understand, whether Jesus talks about Gods or humans love.

the word know in matthew 7:23 is 1097 ... strong's concordance
1097
i never knew you -

''i never felt you''
'' i never resolved you'' - you could say he never resolved the covenant with you
''i never spoke with you''
''i've never been sure of you''
''ive never been aware of you''
''i never understood you''

these are other translations that the KJV writers could have picked instead, to me they all make sense and outline that we have to meet Christ.

your literalism is killing me

i believe the bible should be taken ''as is''. It says what it says. try to understand it was remembered orally for centuries and then read by mere folks who were dumber than you and me, it had to be understood by all, back in the day people knew what salvation was(john bunyan is a testament to this), they didnt need strongs concordance to translate the words like we do now ... but modern day christianity made it a watered down easy to follow doctrine.

people who got saved confirmed the verse, they were called out by name and met Jesus. i know them for years now... great folks. Its ok , you dont have to believe me.

Jesus never says we should not love untill we receive a better love, in fact , he tells us to love our enemies,..
IMHO he does so (instruct the imperfect humans) so we can practice ,


but dont you see ? Jesus talks about God love, while what we got is human love. 2 different things.
what you call love is not love in Gods eyes. same word for different things.

its like Him saying : Love your neighbour, even though i know you cannot because you are fallen creatures, and this is why i said things like let the dead (in spirit) burry their dead , and you shall be saved. He did actualyl say this but not out in the open because otherwise prophecy (corruption of doctrine) couldnt be fulfilled.

how could you possibly expect a perfect "next world " ,..without actively working towards it ?


i dont think you understand what im saying, this world will burn, the next one , a new earth a new heaven will be made by God himself, why would I work towards a new world if God will do all this for me ? and dont take this to the other extreme, a christian is supposed to be ''holy for God is holy'' so no trowing the trash out the window etc.


you expect perfect love, or salvation and "a new heart" to come without any struggle, effort, sacrifice ?


see , this is what the world says, you have to EARN it pretty boy, it wont come to you on a silver plate. but i dont remember Adam and Eve ever working to get a perfect planet, do you see what im saying ? as long as i have to struggle with inner selfish thoughts within me thats a sign somethings not right, thats how i see it.
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

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04-23-2009, 04:54 PM,
#65
The Fallen Angel - A true story about Lucifer
Quote:its like a mixed up priority list , trying to love like Jesus is a waste of time, because we dont have the ''it'' to do it, 1-st you get the love, then you love (what humans have is a different love, a selfish love)

Lets say that , hypothetically, someone would pull it off, ..

how would that be possible if this is how we are born ? without the love and the only giver of love is Jesus which gives it to His bride by ''souping with him'' i.e. meeting face to face ? do you see what i mean by this ?




when i say we are evil deep down i mean in spirit.

just take a look at a bunch of chids, who supposedly are good, even in them, at this young age you can see their evil nature.
Like a kid screaming he wants this or that toy, isnt that being selfish ? as we grow up we learn (not everyone does) to mask these urges, but they are still there..
argue for your limitations and sure enough, they are yours.

you must love your 'enemies' because they empower your destiny. when you truly understand this you will see there is no such thing as an enemy, just something you do not understand. light a candle, do not curse in the dark.

nothing is excluded from God's (Truth's) creation. nothing is excluded from 'God's divine plan'.

.

"oh man! look no further for the author of evil, you are he. there is no evil but the evil you do and the evil you suffer, and both come from yourself." evil is a judgement, based in ignorance (because no one can ever have knowledge in its entirety). JUDGE NOT!

.

and, if it is "selfish love", then it is not love, it is infatuation or prejudice. love is a state of being and personally i believe it is in all, just buried under your fear and millennia of programming.

Vitam Impendere Vero
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04-23-2009, 05:10 PM,
#66
The Fallen Angel - A true story about Lucifer
Beautifully put M&R
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04-23-2009, 05:24 PM,
#67
The Fallen Angel - A true story about Lucifer
Dhammer Wrote:these are other translations that the KJV writers could have picked instead, to me they all make sense and outline that we have to meet Christ.

How exactly does "knowing" , "understanding", "acknowledging", imply "meeting someone in person" ?

take this into consideration ;

a primitive root; to know (properly, to ascertain by seeing); used in a great variety of senses, figuratively, literally, euphemistically and inferentially

Now think for a few seconds, .. was Jesus talking to "just the people seeing/hearing him in person"
or was Jesus, being the representative of God ('s Law) adressing every single being on this earth... ?
Did / does Jesus preach / teach all people , including sinners, heathens, Gentiles, cripples and men infested with a wicked spirit,
or did he somewhere explicitly make known that only those that meet him IN PERSON will be saved ?

Quote:i believe the bible should be taken ''as is''

I think you only apply that notion to what you deem "obvious" ,..
because not everything in the Bible makes sense "as is" or on face value,..
let alone that every parable and phrase should / can be taken litterally.
This is a point i've come back to many a time,..
Everyone reads mere words, but every word is a symbol,
a symbol is not the thing-in-itself... it always refers to something else, a concept, an idea,.
Figuratively meant expressions do not hold the same meaning when taken litterally,
and the Bible happens to be filled with expressions, parables, metaphore of old (oral tradition).

Dhammer Wrote:try to understand it was remembered orally for centuries and then read by mere folks who were dumber than you and me, it had to be understood by all

IMHO , it didn't and it wasn't ever "understood by all",
certainly not in the manner which you imply ;
that all understood it in the exact same ("as is" ) way ; the one "true interpretation".
Besides, i don't agree with you that " people were generally "dumber" than you or me",
IMHO they just had a different orientation, but the same / similar capacity of spirit and mind.

Dhammer Wrote:they didnt need strongs concordance to translate the words like we do now

Do you understand why that is ? :)
To them , the original language of the Bible was not DEAD language,
it was accompanied by the oral tradition which was still present at the time,
and to a certain extent , still is.
they knew/were acquainted with the subtle inferences and connotations to certain words/phrases.
It is indeed us , to which the language and meaning (the symbolical / metaphoric meaning ) is largely unknown,..
but that does not mean, as you say, that there was / is none, and that it should all be taken "as is " .

Dhammer Wrote:people who got saved confirmed the verse, they were called out by name and met Jesus.
i know them for years now... great folks. Its ok , you dont have to believe me.

It is not that i don't believe you,..
I believe that there ARE people that are fully convinced that they were called by name,
and even "met Jesus" .. i just don't take it all as litteral as you do.

Dhammer Wrote:but dont you see ? Jesus talks about God love, while what we got is human love. 2 different things.
what you call love is not love in Gods eyes. same word for different things.

If what Jesus talks about is God's love, then he instructs us to Love our enemy (with God's love)
why would he do so if this was by default an impossible feat for imperfect humans to accomplish ?

Dhammer Wrote:i dont think you understand what im saying, this world will burn, the next one , a new earth a new heaven will be made by God himself, why would I work towards a new world if God will do all this for me ? and dont take this to the other extreme, a christian is supposed to be ''holy for God is holy'' so no trowing the trash out the window etc.

I actually understand what you are saying quite well,
just because i strongly disagree does not mean i don't comprehend what you are saying to me.

why would you do any work , if god will eventually do it all for you ?
because you are the temple of God, the holy spirit is within you NOW, as always,
regardless of you considering yourself flawed/fallen/a sinner,..
How can you be Holy as God is Holy , if you don't act like it, but merely depend on an outward rescue,... ?
does god depend on anything but himself ? then neither should you... for you are Holy as God is Holy.

Trash out the window ? I'm telling you about at least attempting to Love unconditionally ,
to not judge, to bless the meek, to bless those who curse you....

Dhammer Wrote:this is what the world says, you have to EARN it pretty boy, it wont come to you on a silver plate

And ain't "the World" spot on ,..
Did you have everything handed to you in life ?
Did you have your faith in jesus just thrown in your lap ?
Did Jesus not struggle , encounter resistance and in principle conflict with the zeitgeist of his time ?

By works, my friend,
by works, by effort, by intent, by devotion and dedication, and NOT by (blind) faith alone./

Dhammer Wrote:as long as i have to struggle with inner selfish thoughts within me thats a sign somethings not right, thats how i see it.

And when you feel like " something is not right" ,...what do you do ?
Do you attempt to MAKE it Right, do you put effort in correcting the wrongs,... DO YOU STRUGGLE ?
or do you just give up on yourself, and thus on every piece of Christ within You >?

namaste'
If Thine I that I spy with my own little I Doeth Offend thee ; Pluck It out.

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04-23-2009, 07:00 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-23-2009, 07:00 PM by DHammer.)
#68
The Fallen Angel - A true story about Lucifer
it takes too much time to answer all your points...
a primitive root; to know (properly, to ascertain by seeing); used in a great variety of senses, figuratively, literally, euphemistically and inferentially



if there is no literal meeting between Jesus and the believer required then why did Jesus send the believers away and told them they worked in iniquity ? isnt lawlesness working outside the new covenant which is to love one another ?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.



if we`re to say im right then words for ''knew'' like learn to know, come to know ,feel,to become aquainted with, to speak, to feel , to resolve, all fit perfectly. I think '' i never came to speak with you'' is pretty blunt.

but if youre right , and there is no literal meeing between the believer and Jesus these words make absolutely no sense.
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

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04-23-2009, 07:26 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-23-2009, 07:40 PM by standvast.)
#69
The Fallen Angel - A true story about Lucifer
Dhammer, i dont understand how you have made this out to be about an actual meeting in the flesh..

Matthew 7-21 through 7-27

Quote:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

in·iq·ui·ty (-nkw-t)
n. pl. in·iq·ui·ties
1. Gross immorality or injustice; wickedness.
2. A grossly immoral act; a sin.


24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

"whosoever Heareth and DOETH"" ? now that is straight forward...

i take it to mean ; all that know the teachings / law and keep it.

you take it to mean ; everyone who was here and happened to hear it out of my mouth ,
while i was personally installing your new spiritually loving ticker ?

where exactly is Jesus saying "but meet me in person first, or everything i've just told you is completely irrelevant and unattainable" ?

Jesus's Sayings, outlasted jesus, if you believe in a historical Jesus, by about 2000 years.,
don't you think you should take "whoever heareth" to mean ; everyone who understands and follows them?
do the teachings of the son of God become unapplicable in his absence ?

Dhammer Wrote:but if youre right , and there is no literal meeting between the believer and Jesus these words make absolutely no sense.

:geek:
whut ?
If Thine I that I spy with my own little I Doeth Offend thee ; Pluck It out.

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04-23-2009, 07:29 PM,
#70
The Fallen Angel - A true story about Lucifer
You are in the middle of the forest and trying to see the way out, hopefully not intentionally. Now if youy select 1 sentance out of a paragraph, no, it may not make sense. You have to read the beginning and the end.

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” (Matt 7:15-23)

In other words, false leaders and followers of God. this may say it better:

'The Lord tells us here in the book of Matthew 7th chapter to “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.” Such are men/women who “profess” the Lord Jesus and by all outward appearance would be considered Godly ministers of the Gospel, but their inward motives are wicked and sinful as they have no true desire to APPROPRIATELY feed the sheep but their desires lie elsewhere. These are “self-made” ministers lacking the anointing of the Holy Spirit, but with enough alluring speech are able to deceive many into believing an anointing exists. Their hearts are not centered on the spiritual welfare of the sheep in seeing that they are nourished properly for IF it were, they would preach the TRUTH of the Gospel in it’s ENTIRETY and not only the “portions” that would stimulate the growth of their pocketbooks. These self-made ministers DESPITE the outward godly appearance, have used the gospel of The Lord Jesus Christ as a business opportunity to EARN a great profit. This is wicked and evil in the sight of the Lord and although you would not confess this wickedness yourselves and REPENT that you may be saved from the wrath of God, I declare to you that UNLESS you repent you shall indeed hear these words from the Lord on the day of judgment “I NEVER KNEW YOU”. Through trickery, you rob from the sheep and call it a “blessing”, the “favor of God” causing many of the sheep to stumble for they believed the words you spoke, and are now WORSE OFF than they were before! When they seek counsel you tell them somehow they’ve erred, they lacked the FAITH but you yourself have NO FAITH for IF you did, you would believe the Lord for YOUR OWN NEEDS rather than demand substance from the very ones YOU should be watching over. You are deceptive in every sense of the word and are NOT sent by God as His chosen vessel. REPENT of this evil, else you will never enter into the kingdom of Heaven DESPITE the many sermons you’ve preached, or how many times you’ve used the name of the Lord to do “wonderful works”. Your HEART is not right with The Lord, and the intent of your heart is all that would matter in the end. These false prophets the Lord speaks of here in the scriptures are doing the same things as many today in “prophesying” in the Name of The Lord, in His Name casting out devils, in His Name doing many wonderful works, etc. and yet HE not I declares that he will profess to them “I NEVER KNEW YOU: DEPART FROM ME, YE THAT WORK INIQUITY.” Now, it is obvious their works is not the cause of His need to profess these devastating words to them, NOR are their works any indication they TRULY belong to Him. But, the cause of he declaring these words to them is that they are workers of iniquity. Their hearts are not right in his sight. They are not men/women AFTER his own heart, but have a heart of deception. Although outwardly they are able to shield the true intent of their hearts through good works, inwardly their hearts are ever so visible before the Lord and SOON their inward intentions shall be made known. REPENT and truly surrender to the Lord. There is NO amount of wealth, prestige, or notoriety worth hearing The Lord say: “I NEVER KNEW YOU”

http://cyber-church.com/khandie/INeverKnewYou.htm

Want examples, Bush, Obama and many TV personalities.

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04-23-2009, 07:33 PM,
#71
The Fallen Angel - A true story about Lucifer
This should answer the face to face thing

Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” (John 20:29)

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04-23-2009, 07:41 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-23-2009, 07:48 PM by standvast.)
#72
The Fallen Angel - A true story about Lucifer
Thank Christ and Hilly for that verse, i knew it was there , i couldn't find it . :)

BTW , it only just dawned on me that perhaps the golden argument is ;

... it would make no sense at all for Jesus to even have apostles and spread his Sayings / Teachings,
if people would have to meet him face to face first.
what , was their work in vain,.. was nobody ever possibly saved between Jesus's death and estimated day of re-entry ? ?

I'ma go play outside for the rest of the evening.
mazzel.
If Thine I that I spy with my own little I Doeth Offend thee ; Pluck It out.

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04-23-2009, 08:11 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-23-2009, 08:45 PM by DHammer.)
#73
The Fallen Angel - A true story about Lucifer
... it would make no sense at all for Jesus to even have apostles and spread his Sayings / Teachings,
if people would have to meet him face to face first.

how would one go about searching for Christ if it wasnt for the apostles to write the gospels ? how else would we ''search the kingdom of God 1-st'' ? how does it not make sense to have apostles who write the words and then have believers read them and do them so they can meet Christ ?

the meeting is at the end of the journey which could take, from other people's experience, years and years

read my signature, narrow is the way that leadeth unto life - a journey which is hard and takes time leads to the meeting.

was nobody ever possibly saved between Jesus's death and estimated day of re-entry ? ?

how could they meet Christ face to face if Jesus did not redeem the human race yet? it is required for him to die and spill the blood, only then is the new covenant established and put into practice, as soon as he got resurected the meeting could take place, when else and how else ? until Jesus got resurected the old testament law was still in place as far as salvation is concerned.

"whosoever Heareth and DOETH"" ? now that is straight forward...


yes, it is straight forward, but Jesus said what he said and all should be taken into account. he asked us to love, but we cant, he also asked us to ''seek the kingdom of God first''. doing the love part is humanly impossible, but seeking the kingdom of God is very much doable. after weve done the kingdom of God part we can love. Gods will is fulfilled in the end.

Matthew 6:33 "But seek ye first the kingdom of God,and His righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you."

if we dont ''seek ye first the kindgom of God ''how then can ''these things be added unto us'' ?

its really simple, we have to do the will of the father, the law says we have to love our neighbour and God, but since we cant, we have to seek the kingdom of God 1-st. Gods will did not change, its just a process trough which you have to go to fulfill it. does this not make sense to you at all ?

“Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” (John 20:29)

yes the apostles seen Jesus and they believed. blessed are those who never seen Christ yet believed and seeked the kingdom of God and eventually came to meet him.
How else are you supposed to do what God says if not by faith ? Faith is the fuel that leads you trough the narrow way, and only at the end you will finally know, and He will know you


Edit

22Confirming the souls of the disciples(believers), and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.


do you see what it plainly says ? continue in the faith (fuel i talked about) and go trough much tribulation (narrow way) to enter the kingdom of God. it does not work any other way, its the only way, it doesnt say you could do it or then again not do it. it says you do it and you get in, you dont , you are left behind.
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

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04-23-2009, 08:43 PM,
#74
The Fallen Angel - A true story about Lucifer
The point is mute. Without God there is no love and the will of God is to love. Yes there are more rules and Jesus did not come to replace those rules save one, vengeance.

Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” (John 20:29)

That pretty much says what you keep sticking to.

Everybody is capable of love and even the coldest serial killers have someone they love, is it God's type of love, no, but we're not God or even gods.

Here, you get stumbled on words, perhaps visual for starts http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkivxx9Lef8...feature=related
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04-23-2009, 08:45 PM,
#75
The Fallen Angel - A true story about Lucifer
Ok seriously, this thread is not about the Christian Bible or Jesus...it is about Lucifer, The Morning Star, Gods voice/messenger which just so happened to have been Jesus at one point in time. Until he was tortured and crucified, which was something he did not choose to do...just like the countless others that were crucified!!! Now say if/when Lucifer returns, do you think he's gonna impressed???

JJ B)
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