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The Fallen Angel - A true story about Lucifer
04-15-2009, 09:05 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-19-2009, 12:33 PM by jack.)
#31
The Fallen Angel - A true story about Lucifer
Yes Hilly that about sums it up, I thought that it was rather interesting.
Subtle intricacies.
Of course the original books weren't divided up like this with the chapter and verse numbers.
This adding up to 1188 works with the KJV & NIV, I didn't check it out on any other versions, but suspect it would work on most except for the catholic ones.

I looked it all up bc someone sent me an email claiming that this was the center of the bible, so therefore should hold the central theme or have significant message - however it was NOT center.
They claimed that their were 594 chapters on each side for a total of 1188, - the math still worked but the chapters were incorrect - (boy I wish peeps would check things out better) - At any rate I still thought it was pretty cool.


FTR -
not that it necessarily means anything but this would be the center (I'm certainly not claiming that this is or is not the central message) - make of it whatever you will.

The center chapter is - Psalms 117 - (only 2 verses - short)
1- O praise the LORD, all ye nations: praise him, all ye people.
2- For his merciful kindness is great toward us: and the truth of the LORD endureth for ever. Praise ye the LORD.

The center verses are (even number of verses in the book) Psalms 118:8-9 -
8- It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.
9- It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in princes.





DHammer, what do you think the main message of the bible is ???
give me your answer and I'll give you mine
:blush:






@ standvast, glad that you found it humorous.
No I do not think that numerology is satanic, I find it interesting as well, after all even the Bible uses numbers in patterns through out the book. Apparently 42, 40 and 12 all are big ones among others, but they mean nothing to me.

Why, is there something special about the number 1188 ?
I have heard that both 11 and 88 are consider to be master numbers/double digits, - I don't know, to me they are just numbers.

I once had my name and birth date added up, it was a bit like a horoscope - I was told that the date was - 30 or 3, the name 80 or 8, but like a said they are only numbers to me.

Enlighten me, if you wish.

>>>>>>>>>>>>



this is all so off topic, so I'll attempt to bring it back a bit

Why is Lucifer assumed to be the devil/Satan anyhow ?
Who was being confronted in Solve's text - the king of Tyre ? the king of Babylon ? A once beautiful anointed cherub/angel, who was cast down due to pride ? or Satan ?



edit - Thought out corrected to through out - opps, (I need an editor !)
boy do I dislike noticing my mistakes long after they've been seen by others
&Alice laughed, &There's no use trying,& she said: &one can't believe impossible things.& &I daresay you haven't had much practice,& said the Queen. &When I was your age I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.&
- Lewis Carroll

&Things are seldom as they seem ... Skim milk masquerades as cream.&
- Gilbert and Sullivan (Pinafore)

At NASA, it really is rocket science, and the decision makers really are rocket scientists.
But a body of research that is getting more and more attention points to the ways that smart people working collectively can be dumber than the sum of their parts. .. Irwin Janis? &Groupthink:& is a mode of thinking that people engage in when they are deeply involved in a cohesive in-group, when the members' striving for unanimity override realistic appraisals ? It is the triumph of concurrence over good sense, and authority over expertise.&
-John Schwartz & Matthew L. Wade
Reply
04-16-2009, 01:40 AM, (This post was last modified: 04-16-2009, 01:42 AM by hilly7.)
#32
The Fallen Angel - A true story about Lucifer
Quote:Yes Hilly that about sums it up, I thought that it was rather interesting.
Subtle intricacies.
Of course the original books weren't divided up like this with the chapter and verse numbers.
This adding up to 1188 works with the KJV & NIV, I didn't check it out on any other versions, but suspect it would work on most except for the catholic ones.

I looked it all up bc someone sent me an email claiming that this was the center of the bible, so therefore should hold the central theme or have significant message - however it was NOT center.
They claimed that their were 594 chapters on each side for a total of 1188, - the math still worked but the chapters were incorrect - (boy I wish peeps would check things out better) - At any rate I still thought it was pretty cool.


FTR -
not that it necessarily means anything but this would be the center (I'm certainly not claiming that this is or is not the central message) - make of it whatever you will.

The center chapter is - Psalms 117 - (only 2 verses - short)
1- O praise the LORD, all ye nations: praise him, all ye people.
2- For his merciful kindness is great toward us: and the truth of the LORD endureth for ever. Praise ye the LORD.

The center verses are (even number of verses in the book) Psalms 118:8-9 -
8- It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.
9- It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in princes.





DHammer, what do you think the main message of the bible is ???
give me your answer and I'll give you mine
:blush:






@ standvast, glad that you found it humorous.
No I do not think that numerology is satanic, I find it interesting as well, after all even the Bible uses numbers in patterns thought out the book. Apparently 42, 40 and 12 all are big ones among others, but they mean nothing to me.

Why, is there something special about the number 1188 ?
I have heard that both 11 and 88 are consider to be master numbers/double digits, - I don't know, to me they are just numbers.

I once had my name and birth date added up, it was a bit like a horoscope - I was told that the date was - 30 or 3, the name 80 or 8, but like a said they are only numbers to me.

Enlighten me, if you wish.

>>>>>>>>>>>>



this is all so off topic, so I'll attempt to bring it back a bit

Why is Lucifer assumed to be the devil/Satan anyhow ?
Who was being confronted in Solve's text - the king of Tyre ? the king of Babylon ? A once beautiful anointed cherub/angel, who was cast down due to pride ? or Satan ?

I also find numerology interesting. Did the same thing a year or so ago. Supposely told my traits. Course I agreeed with all the good ones mentioned, lol.

The way I understood Satan was an angel, actually the main one, most beautiful and loved. He wanted equality with God and God tossed him down to earth. He thought he should rule as an equal. A demotion of sorts, along with some of the angels that banded together. Not sure about the Lucifer thing, could be that or the morning star. A lot of evidence to prove Satan runs the world, just look at his offspring running different countries. Plus I think I was married to his sister once.
Reply
04-16-2009, 08:13 AM, (This post was last modified: 04-16-2009, 08:14 AM by standvast.)
#33
The Fallen Angel - A true story about Lucifer
Jack Wrote:@ standvast, glad that you found it humorous.
No I do not think that numerology is satanic, I find it interesting as well, after all even the Bible uses numbers in patterns thought out the book. Apparently 42, 40 and 12 all are big ones among others, but they mean nothing to me.

In general only very few numbers have a significance to me beyond their value / use,
and i'm not involved/concerned with number-crunching much, but i find methods of doing so
and the values or symbols assigned to numbers interesting often, from a mostly psychological stance.

Quote:Why, is there something special about the number 1188 ?
I have heard that both 11 and 88 are consider to be master numbers/double digits, - I don't know, to me they are just numbers.

in a simple approach doubles disappear so 1188 becomes 18 , dividable by 2 makes number ; 9.
you can also add them all up , 1+1+8+8 = 18 , then divide by 2 (to end up with a single number) ; 9
this reduction method is related to / called AiQ Beker (or NINE chamber Kabbalah) .

I found this link, which approaches the number similarly as you did (594 + 594 verses)
but it draws up some more connections you may find of interest ;

http://www.madewithouthands.net/5-Bible-59...-bible-txt.html

Quote:Not only the numbers fit, but even the basic idea that the first 39 and last 27 books of the KJV bible correspond to these measures of the Tabernacle makes since. The 39 cu. measure of the Sanctuary is where the work and service of the Tabernacle took place, but no one could enter the Holy of Holies. The first 39 books of the KJV bible teach us the law and works to instruct us in the ways of righteousness, but does not give us access to the Holy of Holies in Heaven. The 27 sq.cu. measure of the entrance area of the Holy of Holies is actually the point of entry or door to the Holy of Holies where the high priest entered in to obtain mercy for the people. The last 27 books of the KJV bible teach us of mercy and grace through God's son, Jesus Christ, who is the door, through which we can enter to obtain mercy for ourselves and others. Interestingly, if the 1188 chapters are divided by the 360 calendar days of the Hebrew calendar a value directly comparable to the estimates of the duration of Jesus' ministry is defined, as 1188 / 360 = 3.3 years. It is estimated that Jesus' ministry lasted about 3 to 3.5 years, 3.3 years is nearly the middle of these estimates.

The 39 and 27 books define the 1188 chapters

The books of the bible compared as a 4 digit whole number, as 3927 - 2739 = 1188, this equals the total chapters of the KJV outside its' center chapter, with 594 chapters before and after Psalm 117, the 1188 value also corresponds to the word "water" in Hebrew. The books compared, as 27 x 39 = 1053, this corresponds to "son", used in "son of man" in Greek.

Quote:I once had my name and birth date added up, it was a bit like a horoscope - I was told that the date was - 30 or 3, the name 80 or 8, but like a said they are only numbers to me.

I think the main idea of working with numbers is allowing them to "come alive" / signify,
so i suppose that's why they remain no more than numbers to either of us, we don't work them actively.

namaste'

Quote:Who was being confronted in Solve's text - the king of Tyre ? the king of Babylon ? A once beautiful anointed cherub/angel, who was cast down due to pride ? or Satan ?

best question of the thread so far.:)
what are your notions about it ?
If Thine I that I spy with my own little I Doeth Offend thee ; Pluck It out.

Reply
04-17-2009, 05:03 AM,
#34
The Fallen Angel - A true story about Lucifer
hilly7 Wrote:The way I understood Satan was an angel, actually the main one, most beautiful and loved. He wanted equality with God and God tossed him down to earth. He thought he should rule as an equal. A demotion of sorts, along with some of the angels that banded together. Not sure about the Lucifer thing, could be that or the morning star. A lot of evidence to prove Satan runs the world, just look at his offspring running different countries. Plus I think I was married to his sister once.

Haha :Dguess she was quite pretty
Thats, what I hear as well. I'll add that I don't think that he/she/it was fallen pre-creation but after - before or during the creation of man, To me it seems highly probable that it occurred after the creation of Adam but before Eve.
Tho since I wasn't there and the book doesn't say, - who knows :dunno:



Quote:I found this link, which approaches the number similarly as you did (594 + 594 verses)
but it draws up some more connections you may find of interest ;

http://www.madewithouthands.net/5-Bible-59...-bible-txt.html

I did find that page most interesting. I really appreciate you pointing that site out to me, the notes are great too.
Thanks,:)it causes me to want to learn more about numerology. B)



standvast Wrote:
jack Wrote:Who was being confronted in Solve's text - the king of Tyre ? the king of Babylon ? A once beautiful anointed cherub/angel, who was cast down due to pride ? or Satan ?

best question of the thread so far.:)
what are your notions about it ?

Lucifer - I am unsure, but here is my opinion.
I will not even pretend to be a biblical scholar whom understands the text fully, yet it is one of my favorite books, parts of it are beyond my understanding and many parts of the OT are quite hard for me to swallow.

Perhaps the word "heylel" should never have been translated into the Latin Vulgate as "Lucifer" by Jerome, or spelled with a lower case "L" so as not to appear like a proper title or name.

The word, lucifer is used only once in the KJV -Isaiah 14:12, it is speaking of the king of Babylon who proudly boasted - "I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; and I will sit upon the mount of congregation, in the uttermost parts of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High."
It then says that this king will go down to the grave and his body will be eaten by worms. This mos def is not the fate of Satan, who is to be cast into the lake of fire, but the fate of of a man.


So is the passage in Isaiah 14 or even the one in Ezekiel 28 (ruler of Tyre) speaking of Satan or Lucifer ?
I don't know, maybe both Satan and the rulers.
There is most def large parallels to the fall of Satan found in Luke 10:18; Revelation 12:9, and the man of lawlessness/son of perdition - Daniel 11:37 & 2Thessalonians 2:4.
To me, at this point in my understanding (bc I could change my mind,) these passages in Isaiah & Ezekiel show rulers whom were likely, but not necessarily purposefully or knowingly - following, ruled by or possessed by Satan, due to their pride/ego.

Satan/"the accuser" - who is believed by many to be the anointed cherub, whom at one time was shining and strikingly brilliant, yet fell or rather was cast down, due to pride/ego. - Tho now fallen has been given authority to rule the earth and it's inhabitants (Job 1:12; Jn 12:31; 14:30; 16:11.)
I guess this is where the confusion of whether or not lucifer is satan comes into play.

However, I personally think that Jerome was referring to Venus or a star when he chose the word lucifer. That it wasn't meant to become Satan's now thought of proper name.
I think lucifer is not a person or entity at all, just a Latin rendering for - morning, star, light, Venus, - a bright star that ushers in the morning.

That said, I see no real harm in the current opinion that says "the accuser" is named Lucifer, tho that would make an awful lot of lucifers singing together at the beginning of creation, - Job 38:7 - "When the morning stars (lucifers:dazed:) sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy"


I hope that was a satisfactory answer, tho I suspect (correct me if I'm wrong) that you would of be pleased by a simple - no, Lucifer is not Satan.


&Alice laughed, &There's no use trying,& she said: &one can't believe impossible things.& &I daresay you haven't had much practice,& said the Queen. &When I was your age I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.&
- Lewis Carroll

&Things are seldom as they seem ... Skim milk masquerades as cream.&
- Gilbert and Sullivan (Pinafore)

At NASA, it really is rocket science, and the decision makers really are rocket scientists.
But a body of research that is getting more and more attention points to the ways that smart people working collectively can be dumber than the sum of their parts. .. Irwin Janis? &Groupthink:& is a mode of thinking that people engage in when they are deeply involved in a cohesive in-group, when the members' striving for unanimity override realistic appraisals ? It is the triumph of concurrence over good sense, and authority over expertise.&
-John Schwartz & Matthew L. Wade
Reply
04-17-2009, 05:11 AM,
#35
The Fallen Angel - A true story about Lucifer
Quote:DHammer, what do you think the main message of the bible is ???
give me your answer and I'll give you mine
:blush:

&Alice laughed, &There's no use trying,& she said: &one can't believe impossible things.& &I daresay you haven't had much practice,& said the Queen. &When I was your age I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.&
- Lewis Carroll

&Things are seldom as they seem ... Skim milk masquerades as cream.&
- Gilbert and Sullivan (Pinafore)

At NASA, it really is rocket science, and the decision makers really are rocket scientists.
But a body of research that is getting more and more attention points to the ways that smart people working collectively can be dumber than the sum of their parts. .. Irwin Janis? &Groupthink:& is a mode of thinking that people engage in when they are deeply involved in a cohesive in-group, when the members' striving for unanimity override realistic appraisals ? It is the triumph of concurrence over good sense, and authority over expertise.&
-John Schwartz & Matthew L. Wade
Reply
04-17-2009, 10:49 AM, (This post was last modified: 04-17-2009, 10:54 AM by DHammer.)
#36
The Fallen Angel - A true story about Lucifer
Quote:DHammer, what do you think the main message of the bible is ???
give me your answer and I'll give you mine
:blush:
salvation

you find it in the most unexpected places , like the tabernacle itself, it is a representation of the human soul and spirit.

the outter court with rituals is conversion

the end of the inner court is regeneration of the human spirit, the sealing of the spirit which is forever saved.

once you enter the inner court (enter ye in at the strait gate) and walk the narrow way (it was dark inside, only the 7 candles (representing the holy spirit) were used, you reached God himself, i.e. life

the crucifixion of Christ too, and many other ... it all comes down to salvation i think.

Quote:He wanted equality with God and God tossed him down to earth.

satan wanted to take God's place, to ''exalt his throne above the stars of God', he did not want equality with God, im guessing he already had that, in spirit at least.
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Reply
04-17-2009, 03:37 PM,
#37
The Fallen Angel - A true story about Lucifer
Jack Wrote:I did find that page most interesting. I really appreciate you pointing that site out to me, the notes are great too.
Thanks, it causes me to want to learn more about numerology.

Glad to hear,
i found it pretty interesting myself.
I was reading up on the Pythagorean system , or what i could find about it,..
and ran across some more links,
especially like the first one, as it connects to Mythological motifs. ;

http://www.numeralgame.64g.ru/num1en.htm
http://www.kalvesmaki.com/Arithmetic/index.htm
http://www.sephar.net/index.htm
http://www.psyche.com/psyche/qbl/comparative_numerology.html

Jack Wrote:I hope that was a satisfactory answer, tho I suspect (correct me if I'm wrong) that you would of be pleased by a simple - no, Lucifer is not Satan.

I think you answered very well-considered and in depth , thanks for that.
TBH , it does please me that you didn't choose the quick " No, not Satan" :D, ... i didn't expect you would.

namaste'
If Thine I that I spy with my own little I Doeth Offend thee ; Pluck It out.

Reply
04-17-2009, 03:46 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-17-2009, 06:56 PM by Jobujack.)
#38
The Fallen Angel - A true story about Lucifer
That was Nebechadnezzar that wanted that, Satan is just a fictional character made up by Christianity to blame for temptation of their sins on!!!:P

I have been curious as to why in the bible (I'm not sure which one's in particular) Jesus claims to be the morning star. If so then technically speaking that would like saying Jesus is lucifer would it not! Also through a little bit of research I have noticed that Jesus is not the only one to make claim of being the morning star, the morning star (lucifer) just seems to be the central theme for all of the messiah's of religion (at the very least the majority of them)!! Which makes me wonder as to how this connection between messiah and the morning star (lucifer) came to be!!!

http://www.lds.mormon.com/lucifer.shtml

JJ :rolleyes:
Reply
04-17-2009, 07:40 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-17-2009, 07:40 PM by DHammer.)
#39
The Fallen Angel - A true story about Lucifer
Nebuchadnezzar......

i remember posting about this exact issue on the forum 2 years ago ... i actually thought ill get my point across if i explain it but it turned out to be a waste of time ... i dont see why i'd repeat that cycle again.

Nebuchadnezzar ... a mere google search can prove to you that lucifer is lucifer and not the man-ruler of babylon.


the morning star - theres a whole topic for this , with a really good link explaining why Jesus was called the morning star, and such ...
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Reply
04-17-2009, 07:51 PM,
#40
The Fallen Angel - A true story about Lucifer
I never said anything about Nebechadnezzer being Lucifer...also I wasn't here 2 years ago, I just started doing the online thing last November!!! :P

Oh...and I do have a pretty good idea as to why Jesus was referred to as the morning star!!! :rolleyes:

JJ

Reply
04-18-2009, 08:52 AM,
#41
The Fallen Angel - A true story about Lucifer
Quote:Nebuchadnezzar......

i remember posting about this exact issue on the forum 2 years ago ... i actually thought ill get my point across if i explain it but it turned out to be a waste of time ... i dont see why i'd repeat that cycle again.

Nebuchadnezzar ... a mere google search can prove to you that lucifer is lucifer and not the man-ruler of babylon.


the morning star - theres a whole topic for this , with a really good link explaining why Jesus was called the morning star, and such ...

man did you even read your OWN previous post ? you said satan is a fictional char and that in isaiah we are presented with nebu

i just explaiend to you thats not true and can be proven if you yourself care but obviously you dont
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Reply
04-18-2009, 02:26 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-18-2009, 06:28 PM by Jobujack.)
#42
The Fallen Angel - A true story about Lucifer
Dr. Seuss books can prove as much true as any Christianity bible can about Lucifer...and Nebechadnezzer I couldn't care less about as he has nothing to do with Lucifer except in the creation of Satan through the manipulated slandering of Christianity!!!

JJ B)
Reply
04-18-2009, 07:21 PM,
#43
The Fallen Angel - A true story about Lucifer
Quote:I read somewhere a long time ago that Rothschild and his gang now have enough techology to fool many into creating a second coming scenerio where he or an appointed one could fool even the top Christians into believing he was Jesus. This would also go along with Biblical Scriptures. It would seem that old faith writings (all) were either foretelling of future events, or used as an agenda for the NWO.

I believe you are talking about something called 'project blue beam'. That describes the hoax of the second coming/ alien invasion in order to trick the populations of the world into a totalitarian one world government. Two reporters who were researching it died of mysterious heart attacks, and the daughter of one was supposedly never seen again.

Don't know if I buy in to it, but if it happens at least you know it's a hoax:P

Two links:
http://educate-yourself.org/cn/projectbluebeam25jul05.shtml
http://tinwiki.org/wiki/Project_Blue_Beam
Reply
04-19-2009, 01:48 AM,
#44
The Fallen Angel - A true story about Lucifer
Quote:
Quote:I read somewhere a long time ago that Rothschild and his gang now have enough techology to fool many into creating a second coming scenerio where he or an appointed one could fool even the top Christians into believing he was Jesus. This would also go along with Biblical Scriptures. It would seem that old faith writings (all) were either foretelling of future events, or used as an agenda for the NWO.

I believe you are talking about something called 'project blue beam'. That describes the hoax of the second coming/ alien invasion in order to trick the populations of the world into a totalitarian one world government. Two reporters who were researching it died of mysterious heart attacks, and the daughter of one was supposedly never seen again.

Don't know if I buy in to it, but if it happens at least you know it's a hoax:P

Two links:
http://educate-yourself.org/cn/projectbluebeam25jul05.shtml
http://tinwiki.org/wiki/Project_Blue_Beam


Yes, that is it. Thanks. In the Bible it speaks about faked prophets and false comings. My sister in law just the other day said something to the effect of it's in God's hands and will will all be spared the bad years by a second coming. We should trust and do nothing, something like that. I asked her what if God expected her to do something and was tired of hand-outs, maybe He expected people to put forth an effort in changing their own lives and world. Not a good thing to do.

Reply
04-19-2009, 09:07 AM, (This post was last modified: 04-19-2009, 09:10 AM by DHammer.)
#45
The Fallen Angel - A true story about Lucifer
i dont know about blue beam ...

Bible says there will be a strong delusion and all will believe it, except the elect (saved)

this could be done trough the Sun, atm its quiet but who knows what will happen in the next years, it could go crazy and trow forth radiation and all the likes, trough which God would allow the delusion to take place, because the world rejected Him.
the Sun and planets influence how people act so ...

only the saved ones (which from what i hear have their DNA changed ) will survive this. its not whether you want to resist this delusion, its whether you will be able to or not.
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Reply


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