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[split] Server Bandwidth Overage Charges
05-18-2012, 02:23 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-18-2012, 05:34 AM by Epinnoia.)
#1
Exclamation  [split] Server Bandwidth Overage Charges
How in the HELL does a tracker use that much bandwidth? I can understand if you're seeding, but the tracker itself shouldn't use much at all -- since it is dealing with plaintext data. And if you were seeding from the tracker's server, that really wasn't a very wise use of limited resources. And if you insist on seeding from the same server that hosts the tracker and website, you should, AT A MINIMUM, set it to only seed during particular minutes of every hour -- and adjust that up as bandwidth limitations permit. For example, ONLY seed during XX:01 to XX:05, XX:15 to XX:20, XX:30 to XX:35, and XX:45 to XX:50.

This wasn't a problem of 'leechdom' on the part of the ISP. It was sloppy administration. Sorry, but it was. I ran my own web hosting company for over 6 years. And I know the business well. This overage charge could have been avoided with just some common-sense.

It isn't an either/or case, either. The box CAN seed files even with a 1TB limit, but with wise configuration. As I said, you can limit the minutes spent seeding each hour -- and that would allow everyone else sharing the files to catch up with each other by spreading around the pieces/chunks they already have, and thus reduce the amount the server would need to spit out when it comes up to the next cycle where it's scheduled to seed again.

Furthermore, when you opt into an 'unlimited bandwidth' package, you don't usually get what you think you're getting. They often take you off of the 100Mbit cards, and throw you onto 10Mbit. Or often throw you on a router with high latency that is oversaturated and has lots of packet collisions. In other words, your throughput levels will almost always go DOWN.

Rather than incur additional monthly charges for a possibly poorer quality connection with 'unlimited' bandwidth, why not try running the thing more smartly with what you have now?!? The answer isn't always to spend more money and raise 'taxes'. Almost always, the best answer is to do things more smartly. It's bad enough that our governments waste what they take from us. But ConCen should know better. A bit of frugality will be enough here. You don't need to commit to spending yet more money that you can't even count on receiving every month! All that does is increase the chances and overall likelihood that you'll crash ConCen into the ground!! And for what? So you can run a P2P service as though it were a glorified FTP service on a fat pipe?!?!? Nono

Angry018
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05-18-2012, 08:07 PM,
#2
RE: Server Bandwidth Overage Charges
(05-18-2012, 02:23 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: How in the HELL does a tracker use that much bandwidth? I can understand if you're seeding, but the tracker itself shouldn't use much at all -- since it is dealing with plaintext data.

I'm obviously seeding.

(05-18-2012, 02:23 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: And if you were seeding from the tracker's server, that really wasn't a very wise use of limited resources. And if you insist on seeding from the same server that hosts the tracker and website, you should, AT A MINIMUM, set it to only seed during particular minutes of every hour -- and adjust that up as bandwidth limitations permit. For example, ONLY seed during XX:01 to XX:05, XX:15 to XX:20, XX:30 to XX:35, and XX:45 to XX:50.

Since the vast majority of the seeding is initial seeding, this would be impractical. Also it's not an issue of saturation of the pipe, just the amount of data served per month.
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05-19-2012, 01:45 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-19-2012, 02:26 AM by Epinnoia.)
#3
RE: Server Bandwidth Overage Charges
(05-18-2012, 08:07 PM)yeti Wrote: Since the vast majority of the seeding is initial seeding, this would be impractical. Also it's not an issue of saturation of the pipe, just the amount of data served per month.

You're sending duplicate data to multiple people by not giving them enough time to actually share the pieces they ALREADY HAVE with each other. As I said, it is P2P technology, and you're approaching it as though it was FTP technology. If you gave them time to spread around the chunks that you have already spit out, you wouldn't need to spit out as much. If you don't understand that, then I don't know how else to explain it to you. I haven't bothered looking, but I highly doubt that you put up 1TB (1000 Gigs) of files up each month. That 1TB happens because you send duplicate chunks out before the others have a chance to spread it around themselves.

You seem more intent upon spitting out gobs and gobs of redundant/duplicate data yourself, rather than letting everyone else spread it around. That might do well for your ego, but let your ego foot the bill for it. It is unnecessary expense. And you well know it.

You appear to not understand what I meant about the saturated pipe, so let me explain further. Your box is plugged into a router. That router can be attached to a line that is congested, or one that isn't. Right now, it most likely isn't on a congested line. Once you switch to unmetered, they will likely unplug you from your current router, and put you on a router that is far more congested. That will cause packet collisions, and an overall degredation of throughput -- because collisions need to be resent.

It's not impractical. You just don't want to do it.

Quote:10Mbps Multi-Homed Unmetered Port + $50
100Mbps Multi-Homed Unmetered Port + $450
1000Mbps Multi-Homed Unmetered Port +$4000

Exactly as I said. They throw you onto a 10Mbps port for the unmetered. Otherwise, if you want to keep the 100Mbps, you have to pay an ADDITIONAL $450 a month.
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05-19-2012, 02:10 AM,
#4
RE: Server Bandwidth Overage Charges
(05-19-2012, 01:45 AM)Epinnoia Wrote:
(05-18-2012, 08:07 PM)yeti Wrote: Since the vast majority of the seeding is initial seeding, this would be impractical. Also it's not an issue of saturation of the pipe, just the amount of data served per month.
You're sending duplicate data to multiple people by not giving them enough time to actually share the pieces they have with each other.

This is not true, because as I said I'm using initial seeding or super seeding.

(05-19-2012, 01:45 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: As I said, it is P2P technology, and you're approaching it as though it was FTP technology. If you gave them time to spread around the chunks that you have spit out, you wouldn't need to spit out as much. If you don't understand that, then I don't know how else to explain it to you.

I understand what P2P is thanks.

As I already said I use initial AKA super seeding. I'm also starting to add web seeding to torrents which we host on the server.

(05-19-2012, 01:45 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: I haven't bothered looking, but I highly doubt that you put up 1TB of data each month.

The vast majority of the torrents I was seeding up until a couple of days ago were on the external tracker, so did not add to my ratio. Also you fail to consider torrents which others upload that I jump on and seed.

(05-19-2012, 01:45 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: That 1TB happens because you send duplicate chunks out before the others have a chance to spread it around themselves.

As I said I'm using super seeding (AKA initial seeding). Look it up if you aren't familiar with the concept.

Anyway, what's wrong with giving data out as fast as possible to people who want it? That's the whole purpose of this site dude.

(05-19-2012, 01:45 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: You seem more intent upon spitting out gobs and gobs of data yourself, rather than letting everyone else spread it around. That might do well for your ego, but let your ego foot the bill for it. It is unnecessary expense. And you well know it.

OK now you're talking out your ass. You can ditch the attitude pal or you won't last long around here.

If the members can get fast downloads of torrents for a $100 per month increase in donations, then what's the problem?
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05-19-2012, 02:22 AM,
#5
RE: Server Bandwidth Overage Charges
(05-19-2012, 01:45 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: You appear to not understand what I meant about the saturated pipe, so let me explain further.

I assure you I perfectly understand what a saturated pipe is. I've been maintaining networks for over 25 years.

(05-19-2012, 01:45 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: Exactly as I said. They throw you onto a 10Mbps port for the unmetered. Otherwise, if you want to keep the 100Mbps, you have to pay an ADDITIONAL $450 a month.

3Z has assured me they will change nothing to the routing of my server when I switch to unmetered, so your concerns are unjustified. You may be unaware that the server wasn't metered at all until the 1st of April.
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05-19-2012, 03:01 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-19-2012, 06:01 AM by Epinnoia.)
#6
RE: Server Bandwidth Overage Charges
(05-19-2012, 02:22 AM)yeti Wrote: 3Z has assured me they will change nothing to the routing of my server when I switch to unmetered, so your concerns are unjustified. You may be unaware that the server wasn't metered at all until the 1st of April.

They are going to change your current port speed. They are going to push you onto a 10Mbps port. Did you not read that part?

(05-19-2012, 02:22 AM)yeti Wrote: Anyway, what's wrong with giving data out as fast as possible to people who want it? That's the whole purpose of this site dude.

That's the purpose that YOU have for the site. A tracker connects people. It need not send out the files themselves. You're conflating the two. You wouldn't need to demand more money from the users, if you did things differently. Putting a pause on the seeding, so that the OTHERS can spread the existing data among themselves, is WISE use of resources. It's frugality. But it's not your money, so you don't care.

(05-19-2012, 02:22 AM)yeti Wrote: If the members can get fast downloads of torrents for a $100 per month increase in donations, then what's the problem?

There you go again, with the bifurcated thinking. They could have 100Mbps speed if you configured things better. But you're so enamored at the idea of 'unlimited' bandwidth that you seem to have overlooked the port downgrade to 10Mbps. Furthermore, you cannot guarantee that you will be able to maintain that increased level of donations. $100/month more? The site says $50/month more for unlimited 10Mbps port. And $450/month more for 100Mbps port. Not sure where you're getting $100. Their stated prices are $150 for the colo and another $50 for the downgrade/upgrade to 10Mbps/'unlimited' bandwidth. In any case, in these difficult economic times, you should be looking to cut your costs, not increase them, IMHO. But then again, it's not your money you're spending...


(05-19-2012, 02:22 AM)yeti Wrote: I assure you I perfectly understand what a saturated pipe is. I've been maintaining networks for over 25 years.

Yet you somehow managed to carelessly go overboard on your bandwidth limit, and push the cost of that carelessness off onto the ConCen community. I, too, have just as much experience, and a dual degree in computer science and philosophy. You're not the only one around here that knows the technical aspect of things. But you are the only one around here that has made a mistake that you expect others to pay for.

(05-19-2012, 02:22 AM)yeti Wrote: OK now you're talking out your ass. You can ditch the attitude pal or you won't last long around here.

My attitude? Have you any idea how YOU come across? Or do you not care, because you have all the 'power' and are somehow beyond reproach? You want to be the ONE sending out the data to people at fast speeds, rather than letting multiple people do the same work across smaller lines. There is no qualitative difference between 5 people spitting data out at 1Mbps, vs. 1 person spitting it out at 5Mbps. But YOU want to be the ONE spitting out, rather than taking advantage of P2P technology. If that's not ego, then what is it? We all have egos. I don't deny that I have one. You, however, have a ban button that comes attached to yours. And you don't like to be questioned AT ALL. So I won't say any more on the matter. You obviously like throwing your 'power' around and threatening when someone questions your motives and/or approach, even after YOU made a mistake that you expect others to pay for. Pffft... Enjoy your 10Mbps port downgrade and the likely added collisions, My Lord...
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05-19-2012, 06:01 AM,
#7
RE: Server Bandwidth Overage Charges
(05-19-2012, 03:01 AM)Epinnoia Wrote:
(05-19-2012, 02:22 AM)yeti Wrote: 3Z has assured me they will change nothing to the routing of my server when I switch to unmetered, so your concerns are unjustified. You may be unaware that the server wasn't metered at all until the 1st of April.
They are going to change your current port speed. They are going to push you onto a 10Mbps port. Did you not read that part?

Apples and oranges. AFAIK we're already on a 10Mbps choke point and have been for years. So far it hasn't mattered. ConCen has been going over 1TB of data movement for many months because of a combo of the static files hosted and the seeding of torrents which a lot of people were happy to have and who enjoyed getting them quickly. If people don't want to pay for seeding, then we won't.

BTW I'm pretty sure that the people networking my box to the internets are using switches, so how do collisions come into it? Where are the packets coming from that can cause collisions?

FYI here is the 3Z unmetered plan:

Quote:2 Rack Unit Space
Unlimited Bandwidth
100% Uptime Guarantee
$220/Month
100Mbps Uplink Port
APC Remote Reboot Port
24/7 Escorted Access

Please show me the words on that page that refer to 10Mbps. Anyway bandwidth doesn't matter as much as the data cap.

(05-19-2012, 03:01 AM)Epinnoia Wrote:
(05-19-2012, 02:22 AM)yeti Wrote: Anyway, what's wrong with giving data out as fast as possible to people who want it? That's the whole purpose of this site dude.
That's the purpose that YOU have for the site.

You make it sound like I'm the only one who enjoys getting data quickly. I'm guessing that most of the people would rather have their data quickly than more slowly because it's more efficient or frugal. Maybe we should take a poll and see who's method is more popular. But no, it's because of my ego that all that data's getting thrown out there so quickly!

(05-19-2012, 03:01 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: A tracker connects people. It need not send out the files themselves. You're conflating the two.

YOU seem to think this site is only a tracker. This site is more than the tracker. It also hosts FTP and a forum as well as a wiki. It has its own mail server too. Without a data cap we could serve a lot more data, don't you think? If this site was only a tracker, it could be run for less than it is now. If the tracker was small it could be run for way less, but ConCen isn't a small tracker.

(05-19-2012, 03:01 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: You wouldn't need to demand more money from the users, if you did things differently. Putting a pause on the seeding, so that the OTHERS can spread the existing data among themselves, is WISE use of resources. It's frugality.

You really like to whine about that a lot don't you? Familiarize yourself with initial seeding, OK?

(05-19-2012, 03:01 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: But it's not your money, so you don't care.

Fuck you buddy. I care more about this site than anyone else, by a country mile.

(05-19-2012, 03:01 AM)Epinnoia Wrote:
(05-19-2012, 02:22 AM)yeti Wrote: If the members can get fast downloads of torrents for a $100 per month increase in donations, then what's the problem?
There you go again, with the bifurcated thinking.

LOL That yeti, he's so wacky!

(05-19-2012, 03:01 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: They could have 100Mbps speed if you configured things better. But you're so enamored at the idea of 'unlimited' bandwidth that you seem to have overlooked the port downgrade to 10Mbps.

There will be no downgrade, therefore if there is a 10Mbps choke, it's already on, so I don't give a fuck about the bandwidth above 10Mbps because so far it hasn't been a problem. What suddenly IS a problem is the data cap.

(05-19-2012, 03:01 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: Furthermore, you cannot guarantee that you will be able to maintain that increased level of donations.

Holy fuck did you just make a valid point? What a fluke! LOL

(05-19-2012, 03:01 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: $100/month more? The site says $50/month more for unlimited 10Mbps port. And $450/month more for 100Mbps port.

Please look at the proper page - the one for unmetered services. The $220 is before taxes. We're going from $150 to $220 plus taxes which are a bitch because they tack on a "communications tax".

(05-19-2012, 03:01 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: Not sure where you're getting $100. Their stated prices are $150 for the colo and another $50 for the downgrade/upgrade to 10Mbps/'unlimited' bandwidth.

Please look at the proper page - the one for unmetered services.

(05-19-2012, 03:01 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: In any case, in these difficult economic times, you should be looking to cut your costs, not increase them, IMHO. But then again, it's not your money you're spending...

If the members don't want to pay the extra I'll find out soon enough. BTW how much has ConCen cost you so far?

(05-19-2012, 03:01 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: Yet you somehow managed to carelessly go overboard on your bandwidth limit, and push the cost of that mistake off onto the ConCen community.

Your accusation that I'm careless is unwarranted. They just started metering the server in April after not doing it for more than 4 years. They gave NO WARNING that they were going to do it, so how was I careless?

(05-19-2012, 03:01 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: I, too, have just as much experience, and a dual degree in computer science and philosophy. You're not the only one around here that knows the technical aspect of things.

Congratulations for making sure everybody knows how smart you are.

(05-19-2012, 03:01 AM)Epinnoia Wrote:
(05-19-2012, 02:22 AM)yeti Wrote: OK now you're talking out your ass. You can ditch the attitude pal or you won't last long around here.
My attitude? Have you any idea how YOU come across? Or do you not care, because you have all the 'power'?

I don't care what assholes think of me, asshole.

(05-19-2012, 03:01 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: You want to be the ONE sending out the data to people at fast speeds, rather than letting multiple people do the same work across smaller lines. There is no qualitative difference between 5 people spitting data out at 1Mbps, vs. 1 person spitting it out at 5Mbps. But YOU want to be the ONE spitting out, rather than taking advantage of P2P technology. If that's not ego, then what is it?

I've already explained what initial seeding is, so I'm not going to bother doing it again. Your lame attempt at claiming it's an ego thing in order to insult me would be laughable if it wasn't so pathetic.

(05-19-2012, 03:01 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: We all have egos. I don't deny that I have one. You, however, have a ban button that comes attached to yours.

I ban assholes, yeah. It comes with the territory. You seem to be assuming my ego is as warped as yours appears to be. How sad for you.

(05-19-2012, 03:01 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: And you don't like to be questioned AT ALL.

Bullshit. I just don't like assholes.

(05-19-2012, 03:01 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: So I won't say any more on the matter. You obviously like throwing your 'power' around and threatening when someone questions your motives and/or approach, even after YOU made a mistake that you then push the cost of onto others.

They just started metering the server in April. They gave NO WARNING that they were going to do it, so how is this my mistake? For not being psychic? Fuck you.

(05-19-2012, 03:01 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: Pffft... Enjoy your 10Mbps port downgrade with added collisions, My Lord...

I've already explained that the server and network configuration will not change at all. This means that the server has been working fine, so I really don't give a shit about that. But hey, if you want to get your knickers in a twist about it, whine away...
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05-19-2012, 08:01 AM,
#8
RE: Server Bandwidth Overage Charges
lmfao yeti you are at it again. Epinnoia has some extremely VALID concerns and constructive comments and you act like a bitch. How do you expect people to approach you?? i have read many many of your 'comments' and posts. heh, far less i should say since you also foolishly banned comments, ultimately because there were too many (what 1 maybe 2) people who didnt conform to your perfect view of how things should be and your ban button turned out useless against them didnt it.
You have made countless errors in your 'management' even i can see that and i own an auto body shop for fuck sake! I don't need a PHd in computer engineering to watch you finish pile driving this community straight into the ground. NOBODY and i mean NOBODY can fucking question you or criticize you in any way without you banning them, BANNING them Yeti?!? are you fucking serious? is this 3rd grade and a bully wants to take your lunch money or is this an ADULT community capable of rational objective discussion of whatever topic is at hand? (ie. one of the intended purposes of the site..)

I have been around a long time, been banned by every admin this site has had because of the same shit, opening my mouth of the bullshit hypocrisy you always spew What are they putting in your water up there??

Stop your abusive power trippin ways and lighten up, bro. You are a fucking asshole, admit it, dude. I'm an asshole and will be the first to man up and accept my words and actions. Own up to it yeti, stop hiding behind your 'ban' button. You make yourself look like a real life panzy, even after everything you've done for the site. I said ive been around awhile and props to what youve done but honestly you have done just as much in the other direction. You are loosing the respect of concen's members.
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05-19-2012, 08:17 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-19-2012, 04:46 PM by Epinnoia.)
#9
RE: Server Bandwidth Overage Charges
"asshole" "asshole" "bullshit" "asshole" "fuck"

You know, if I, or anyone else, was to speak/type to YOU that way, we would be banned without hesitation. But you are allowed to do it. Hypocrite much? Tyrant much?

Quote:But no, it's because of my ego that all that data's getting thrown out there so quickly!

Again, I stress to you the fact that there is no qualitative difference between 5 people sending chunks out at 1Mbps each, vs. 1 person sending it out at 5Mbps. If you put pauses in the seeding, those other people would share the pieces that they already have between themselves, and then there would not be as much data that needed to be sent out the next seeding cycle. You think that the super-seeding is some kind of bandwidth panacea. It isn't. You ignore the fact that many people will stop seeding once they get the complete file. Whereas, if you put a pause in there, they would be forced to share more data than they otherwise would without the pause -- which, despite what you say, WOULD reduce the amount of data your box would be sending out overall. I know you're smart enough to understand this. You simply don't WANT to understand this, or admit it publicly. You'd rather try to convince people that I don't know what super-seeding is. Pffft...

Quote:Congratulations for making sure everybody knows how smart you are.

I was responding to YOUR statement about 25 years experience. You were the one making sure that *I* knew how smart you were, and I was simply making sure that you knew that you were not alone in that experience. But I guess only you get to flash your credentials around, nobody else... Typical...

The one and only link that you gave was http://securedatabank.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=75&Itemid=66

Look below where it says:

Quote:Bandwidth Upgrade Options

10Mbps Multi-Homed Unmetered Port + $50
100Mbps Multi-Homed Unmetered Port + $450
1000Mbps Multi-Homed Unmetered Port +$4000

It seems odd that they would charge you $450 for an upgrade to 100Mbps unlimited on one page (in addition to the $150 colo fee), and yet only charge you $220 total (including colo) for 100Mbps 'unmetered' on another page. Don't you find that the least bit odd? In any case, I was working off the information you provided. Now, you can convince yourself that it is just a typo, or investigate why there is a discrepancy like that in their pricing. I have already given you what I think are the reasons... One is on a prime fully-burstable non-congested line, and the other isn't. And moving everything from a prime fully-burstable non-congested line to an oversaturated non-burstable line will almost certainly cause collisions and/or an overall degredation of quality for the website, tracker, and the actual file transfers -- especially during peak hours. That's why they charge so much less for the line.

Your ill-tempered potty-mouth indicates a rather dismissive, unstable, abusive, and overall boorish personality. People like you shouldn't have censoring power of any sort over other people. You obviously have one standard for everyone else, and another for yourself. And the only reason you can claim that you do more for the site than anyone else is because you are the only one in a position who CAN -- you've seen to it. You like being Mr. Tyrant. Mr. 'Unitary Executive'. I'll leave it to your psychologist/psychiatrist to explain to you why that might be, although I certainly have my suspicions.

Furthermore, if they bait/switched you, you should/would be challenging that. You seem all-too-willing to pay for a 'mistake' that you yourself claim wasn't a mistake at all. What package did you have before?

They were metering you before. You said it yourself that you went over the 1TB bandwidth limit in the previous months, so there was no way to shirk the overage charge this time. Are you not confusing their 'ENFORCING' the metering with actual metering? You knew you had a 1TB package, did you not? And did you not have a way to keep track of your usage? Something they provided? Or MRTG? Or were you just counting on them ignoring your overages again and again?

I'm not an 'asshole'. In fact, I rarely curse -- I find that it demonstrates a substantial lack of creativity, and an overall low level of vocabulary. What I do not like, however, are tyrants with god complexes, who can't even admit when they make a mistake. And not only can't you admit it, but you lash out at someone calling them an 'asshole' for pointing out that the emperor wasn't wearing his clothes. I have done much more than my fair share of seeding (500GB down, 2.41TB up), as you should be able to tell. I'd do more, but of course, only you get to do more... That's how you like it... Because it justifies your continued authoritarian hypocritical monarchical despotic governance.
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05-19-2012, 03:51 PM,
#10
RE: Server Bandwidth Overage Charges
(05-19-2012, 08:01 AM)theUser Wrote: you also foolishly banned comments

Bullshit. I'm reading one of your comments now. How is that a ban, troll?

(05-19-2012, 08:01 AM)theUser Wrote: there were too many (what 1 maybe 2) people who didnt conform to your perfect view of how things should be and your ban button turned out useless against them didnt it.

Actually there were about a dozen who would hop on every torrent and whine about Jews and Jones all day. And yeah, they're gone or learned to get a life, so it worked out pretty well. Thanks for asking.

(05-19-2012, 08:01 AM)theUser Wrote: I don't need a PHd in computer engineering to watch you finish pile driving this community straight into the ground.

It's bigger than it's ever been actually.

(05-19-2012, 08:01 AM)theUser Wrote: NOBODY and i mean NOBODY can fucking question you or criticize you in any way without you banning them

Bullshit. You are lying again. I take criticism very well. I even ask for it by posting notices etc. I ban assholes and trolls. You're being an asshole and a troll.

(05-19-2012, 08:01 AM)theUser Wrote: I have been around a long time, been banned by every admin this site has had because of the same shit, opening my mouth of the bullshit hypocrisy you always spew What are they putting in your water up there??

Maybe it's because we don't like being hassled by assholes.

(05-19-2012, 08:01 AM)theUser Wrote: Own up to it yeti, stop hiding behind your 'ban' button. You make yourself look like a real life panzy, even after everything you've done for the site.

I ban because it's the quickest way to deal with assholes like you. I learned the hard way that ultimately you're always going to be an asshole no matter how much placating we do. Yeah it probably makes me look a little foolish to some, but if that's the price one has to pay to keep the assholes away, I'm willing to pay it.
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05-19-2012, 05:01 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-19-2012, 05:48 PM by Epinnoia.)
#11
[split] Server Bandwidth Overage Charges
(05-19-2012, 04:50 PM)icosaface Wrote: We are talking about small amounts of money and as I am one of those who has donated money to this site I would like you non donators to know that I feel that the money has not been wasted.

Some of us give in different ways. My method of giving is my upstream. At least this way I know how my 'giving' is being 'spent'. I don't know what all else Yeti might be running on that box. Only he does. There could be 100 other websites on that box that nobody here but Yeti knows about. I'm not saying there is. I'm not saying that I have any reason to suspect that there is. I'm just saying that we have no way of knowing. What I do know is that he dismissed my idea without even batting an eye. And it wasn't because the idea was bad. And that just makes my eyebrows rise...

Furthermore, you cannot yet claim to know whether you will like how the extra money is spent. Because you cannot know how congested things will become when he makes the switch to the unmetered port. In my experience, it will be very noticeably slower/laggy. If on some slim chance he will get a fully-burstable unmetered non-congested 100Mbps line, then I certainly congratulate him on finding such an unlikely deal. That still doesn't excuse the overage charge. That's just money down the drain.

From what I have seen, however, I don't yet believe he will be getting a fully-burstable unmetered non-congested 100Mbps line. I think he will be getting unmetered bandwidth, but at the cost of a lower quality (ie. congested) line, plus a bit more a month in fees that he cannot rely on the community consistently paying. And we will likely be inundated with repeated threats of the entire operation being taken down completely if we don't pitch in the additional amount every month. Governments almost never lower taxes or reduce spending. Especially tyrannical ones.

The pause in seeding idea is not a bad idea. It just conflicts with what Yeti wants. It would reduce the amount the server spits out, and can be tweaked as conditions change. That would also allow us to remain on the uncongested 'prime' line we're on now, and incur no additional costs.


Reply
05-19-2012, 06:05 PM,
#12
[split] Server Bandwidth Overage Charges
(05-19-2012, 05:01 PM)Epinnoia Wrote: Some of us give in different ways. My method of giving is my upstream. At least this way I know how my 'giving' is being 'spent'.

You're not 'giving' your upstream to the server, so how can we 'spend' it? Only you can control where your P2P packets go.

(05-19-2012, 05:01 PM)Epinnoia Wrote: Because you cannot know how congested things will become when he makes the switch to the unmetered port.

Things will not become congested because there will not be a 10Mbps choke to the tracker. Either the deal is off or the port to the tracker stays 100Mbps. I can add another port to the server - an unmetered 10Mbps for initial seeding of data only, and the wrh archives, which should only be an additional $50 /month. Or not. I say it's worth a try. If you're against the idea you're in a tiny minority and your opinion has been noted.

(05-19-2012, 05:01 PM)Epinnoia Wrote: That still doesn't excuse the overage charge. That's just money down the drain.

True. It happened on my watch so it's my fault. I explained how the bill snuck up on me, but ultimately had I been diligent and monitored my own data movements (which takes overhead) I could have avoided the bill.

(05-19-2012, 05:01 PM)Epinnoia Wrote: From what I have seen, however, I don't yet believe he will be getting a fully-burstable unmetered non-congested 100Mbps line.

We don't need one! It would be nice, but we can have our cake and eat it too by having dual ports, A 100Mbps 1TB and a 10Mbps unmetered. Problem solved.

If 10Mbps were the only connection to the internets then I would not accept it, so it's not going to happen, OK? FFS dude, you need to lie the fuck down and sleep this off.

(05-19-2012, 05:01 PM)Epinnoia Wrote: The pause in seeding idea is not a bad idea. It just conflicts with what Yeti wants.

It conflicts with the torrent seeding strategy for the server, so is therefore a bad idea. Thanks for mentioning it again.
[Image: randquote.png]
Reply
05-19-2012, 06:16 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-19-2012, 06:54 PM by Epinnoia.)
#13
RE: Server Bandwidth Overage Charges
(05-19-2012, 06:05 PM)yeti Wrote:
(05-19-2012, 05:01 PM)Epinnoia Wrote: Some of us give in different ways. My method of giving is my upstream. At least this way I know how my 'giving' is being 'spent'.

You're not 'giving' your upstream to the server, so how can we 'spend' it? Only you can control where your P2P packets go.

I didn't say I was giving to the server. I am giving, however. To the community. I am on a FiOS connection and have quite good upstream speed. I suspect that many of us do. And that's why I explained to you the fact that 5 people spitting out data at 1Mbps is no different than 1 spitting out at 5Mbps. It spreads the load around, which is what P2P torrents are meant to do. You're running it like an FTP site across a P2P architecture. Which, IMHO, is silly -- especially when it incurs additional unnecessary costs. But hey, I'm a social liberal, and a staunch fiscal conservative. That 'penny saved is a penny earned' quote must have made quite the impression upon me when I first heard it...

(05-19-2012, 06:05 PM)yeti Wrote: It conflicts with the torrent seeding strategy for the server, so is therefore a bad idea. Thanks for mentioning it again.

It conflicts with YOUR strategy. And that's a strategy that YOU want. Ergo, it conflicts with what YOU want. It's a highly-configurable idea that should have been considered a few months back, from what I can tell...

(05-19-2012, 06:05 PM)yeti Wrote: we can have our cake and eat it too by having dual ports, A 100Mbps 1TB and a 10Mbps unmetered. Problem solved.

Assuming that the 100Mbps line is the same as it is now, and as long as you think the donation levels will support it, and are willing to go back to the spending levels where we are CURRENTLY if it doesn't, I would agree with you that the problem IS solved. *shakes hands* Wave
Reply
05-19-2012, 07:29 PM,
#14
RE: Server Bandwidth Overage Charges
(05-19-2012, 08:17 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: Tyrant much?

If I didn't do it once in a while I'd have been gone a long time ago. And since nobody was willing to take over the site if I left, I decided to stay on.

(05-19-2012, 08:17 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: Again, I stress to you the fact that there is no qualitative difference between 5 people sending chunks out at 1Mbps each, vs. 1 person sending it out at 5Mbps.
...
I know you're smart enough to understand this.

As I did the first time, so you've no need to keep whining about it. I've already told you that I will not be turning seeds on and off because I do initial seeding only so that people can get the data as fast as possible. You need to accept this fact and get on with your life.

(05-19-2012, 08:17 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: You simply don't WANT to understand this, or admit it publicly.

Talking out your ass again.

(05-19-2012, 08:17 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: You'd rather try to convince people that I don't know what super-seeding is. Pffft...

Talking out your ass again.

(05-19-2012, 08:17 AM)Epinnoia Wrote:
Quote:Congratulations for making sure everybody knows how smart you are.
I was responding to YOUR statement about 25 years experience.

Which was an attempt at letting you know that I'm not a newb, so I don't need to have info repeatedly barked at me. Apparently I failed.

(05-19-2012, 08:17 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: But I guess only you get to flash your credentials around, nobody else... Typical...

It's typical that you've made up another fantasy in order to insult me. You're a troll. We ban trolls.

(05-19-2012, 08:17 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: The one and only link that you gave was http://securedatabank.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=75&Itemid=66

You're lying again. Remember this post? Click on the one that says "unmetered"

(05-19-2012, 08:17 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: It seems odd that they would charge you $450 for an upgrade to 100Mbps unlimited on one page (in addition to the $150 colo fee), and yet only charge you $220 total (including colo) for 100Mbps 'unmetered' on another page. Don't you find that the least bit odd?

Oh my God, another valid point. What are you, 2 for 40 now?

(05-19-2012, 08:17 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: And moving everything from a prime fully-burstable non-congested line to an oversaturated non-burstable line will cause collisions and an overall degredation of quality for the website, tracker, and the actual file transfers -- especially during peak hours.

I've already told you twice that I've been assured by the manager of the company that this will not happen. This is the third time I'm telling you. How many more times do I have to tell you something before it sinks in?

I admit that there is a price discrepancy on their site and I'm looking into it. As a result I'm making sure that everything he promises is written into the contract. When I get clarification I will pass the information on.

(05-19-2012, 08:17 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: Your ill-tempered potty-mouth indicates a rather dismissive, unstable, abusive, and overall boorish personality.

Only when I deal with assholes. You're an asshole.

(05-19-2012, 08:17 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: People like you shouldn't have censoring power of any sort over other people. You obviously have one standard for everyone else, and another for yourself.

I only censor spam. Most mods on other sites delete posts all the time - especially when the poster is an asshole. I leave the posts up so that assholes can use it as an easy excuse to be an asshole.

I ban assholes, but they usually come back anyway. Some of them are actually smart enough to learn how not to be an asshole.

(05-19-2012, 08:17 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: And the only reason you can claim that you do more for the site than anyone else is because you are the only one in a position who CAN -- you've seen to it.

Talking out your ass again. You claim you're competent enough to run this site, so why not step up? Let's take a poll right now - "Should yeti hand the site over to Epinnoia? Yes or no"

(05-19-2012, 08:17 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: You like being Mr. Tyrant. Mr. 'Unitary Executive'. I'll leave it to your psychologist/psychiatrist to explain to you why that might be, although I certainly have my suspicions.

Talking out your ass again.

Call me weird, but I actually hate having to deal with assholes. I find banning is the fastest way to deal with assholes, other than to just delete them and their posts, like pretty much every other site out there does. Maybe I should start deleting people like practically everyone else. Would you like that?

(05-19-2012, 08:17 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: Furthermore, if they bait/switched you, you should/would be challenging that.

There was no bait and switch therefore there is nothing to challenge. I explained what happened.

(05-19-2012, 08:17 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: You seem all-too-willing to pay for a 'mistake' that you yourself claim wasn't a mistake at all.

You are making assumptions based on your assumptions.

(05-19-2012, 08:17 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: They were metering you before.

Assumption. Incorrect. You assume that because I had a metered plan that they were metering me. They were not metering me.

(05-19-2012, 08:17 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: You said it yourself that you went over the 1TB bandwidth limit in the previous months, so there was no way to shirk the overage charge this time.

I assumed I did because usage patterns in the last few months haven't changed.

(05-19-2012, 08:17 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: You are confusing their 'ENFORCING' the metering with actual metering.

It is you who is confused because you made incorrect assumptions.

(05-19-2012, 08:17 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: You knew you had a 1TB package, did you not?

Sir yes sir!

(05-19-2012, 08:17 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: And did you not have a way to keep track of your usage?

No, and I never worried about it because I assumed that they were metering me and would have notified me if I went over.

(05-19-2012, 08:17 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: Something they provided?

They provided nothing. They weren't metering themselves.

(05-19-2012, 08:17 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: Or were you just counting on them ignoring your overages again and again?

You assume I knew I had overages.

(05-19-2012, 08:17 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: I'm not an 'asshole'. In fact, I rarely curse

Some of the biggest assholes I know "rarely curse". It just makes their own assholes that much tighter, doesn't it! LOL

(05-19-2012, 08:17 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: -- I find that it demonstrates a substantial lack of creativity and an overall low level of vocabulary.

Ya think? You love thems assumptions, doncha?

(05-19-2012, 08:17 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: What I do not like, however, are tyrants with god complexes, who can't even admit when they make a mistake.

Sorry, I don't confess to assholes.

(05-19-2012, 08:17 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: And not only can't you admit it

Assumption designed to insult.

(05-19-2012, 08:17 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: but you lash out at someone calling them an 'asshole' for pointing out that the emperor wasn't wearing his clothes.

I called you an asshole because you made shit up and used it to insult me, like you're doing right now.

(05-19-2012, 08:17 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: I have done much more than my fair share of seeding (500GB down, 2.41TB up), as you should be able to tell.

How much cash have you donated?

(05-19-2012, 08:17 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: I'd do more, but of course, only you get to do more... That's how you like it...

Why are you continually making shit up and flinging it at me?

(05-19-2012, 08:17 AM)Epinnoia Wrote: Because it justifies your continued authoritarian hypocritical monarchical despotic governance.

YeeHaw! LOL
[Image: randquote.png]
Reply
05-20-2012, 12:45 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-20-2012, 10:44 AM by Epinnoia.)
#15
RE: Server Bandwidth Overage Charges
(05-19-2012, 07:29 PM)yeti Wrote: Talking out your ass again.

No. You just refuse to try to understand what I am trying to explain to you. You have it in your mind that spitting the file out multiple times is preferential to spitting it out more slowly, and allowing the other people to spread it around themselves. That's a mental block that YOU have. As I said, super-seeding isn't the panacea that you are trying to say it is, because many people stop seeding as soon as they finish getting the file. And that causes your super-seeding to start seeding again if they had chunks that nobody else had yet, now doesn't it?!? Of course it does. And I pointed that out already. There is a middle-ground here, which your bifurcated mind appears to reject. You could seed 5 minutes, pause 5. Seed 5 minutes, pause 4....all the way down to Seed 5 minutes, and pause 1. Notice the flexibility!?!? That gives those chunks more time to propagate so that when they do stop seeding after they get the file, there is an increased chance that they're not removing chunks from the system that haven't spread around yet. At this point, however, I doubt that you will implement the idea, no matter how good an idea it is, purely out of spite. And that says far more about you than I ever could.

(05-19-2012, 07:29 PM)yeti Wrote: You're lying again.

That post came well after. You should try to keep yourself temporally anchored. I wasn't aware that there was a different unmetered package, as I said. I saw that they had a price for 10Mbps, 100Mbps, and 1000Mbps unmetered upgrade packages on the first page you linked. And once I learned that there was a discrepancy, I further pointed out why I thought it was the case. You know what fully-burstable means. And I'll leave it at that.

(05-19-2012, 07:29 PM)yeti Wrote: Oh my God, another valid point. What are you, 2 for 40 now?

I don't expect that you make a very good judge on the validity of my points, since they challenge your Napoleon/God Complex directly. I've got 4 semesters of increasingly-difficult logic classes under my belt. You?

(05-19-2012, 07:29 PM)yeti Wrote: I've already told you twice that I've been assured by the manager of the company that this will not happen.

And I already told you that I will congratulate you for finding such a sweet unlikely deal, if it actually turns out to be true. You might want to tell that manager that his prices don't make sense on the pages you linked here, if the line quality on both packages are exactly the same. You should install MRTG. That gives you a much easier way of seeing if your overall throughput drops. I'm actually quite surprised you didn't have it installed. Every sysadmin I know installs that package on boxes they admin on. Kinda odd that you didn't...

(05-19-2012, 07:29 PM)yeti Wrote: Only when I deal with assholes. You're an asshole.

Say it again? Maybe the more you say it, it will make it true? I am not an asshole. I just don't get along well with hypocrites or tyrants. You might find that a character flaw in me, and that's fine. Most people would agree with me, I suspect.

(05-19-2012, 07:29 PM)yeti Wrote: Some of them are actually smart enough to learn how not to be an asshole.

Or take over the operation so they can be as much an asshole as they want, with nobody having any ability to do anything about their blatant hypocrisy and double-standards.

(05-19-2012, 07:29 PM)yeti Wrote: Let's take a poll right now - "Should yeti hand the site over to Epinnoia? Yes or no"

You have thinned out the herd so that anyone who is left is mostly silent, or beholden to your authoritarian style. It's not a question of Yeti or Epinnoia. It's a question of whether you are too heavy-handed in your approach, and whether you have a serious god complex. I think people might very well prefer you to keep running things, but in a different manner than you do. But, as you know, it's your way or the highway.

(05-19-2012, 07:29 PM)yeti Wrote: Maybe I should start deleting people like practically everyone else. Would you like that?

As long as it is for blatant violations of rules that you, yourself, agree to follow, I wouldn't mind it at all. I expect that you should be banning hackers and blocking IP addresses of people trying to harm the website. Censorship of ideas is a much different breed of animal.

(05-19-2012, 07:29 PM)yeti Wrote: Assumption. Incorrect. You assume that because I had a metered plan that they were metering me. They were not metering me.

If they weren't metering you, then how do you think they knew that you were over your allotted amounts for the previous months as well as the current billing cycle? Again, I say that you are confusing 'metering' with 'enforcement of metering'. I thought I made that point clear already.

(05-19-2012, 07:29 PM)yeti Wrote: No, and I never worried about it because I assumed that they were metering me and would have notified me if I went over.

And what do they say about ass-u-ming? You had a way to monitor your use. You could have installed MRTG, like most all responsible sysadmins do.

(05-19-2012, 07:29 PM)yeti Wrote: They provided nothing. They weren't metering themselves.

They obviously were metering you, else they would not have known you were over the previous months. Otherwise, as you said so yourself, you would have been able to shirk the bill.

(05-19-2012, 07:29 PM)yeti Wrote: You assume I knew I had overages.

No. Did you not notice that ? mark at the end of the sentence? What I do know is that you had a metered package and you weren't tracking your use. You might try a dry erase monthly board. I found them quite helpful.

(05-19-2012, 07:29 PM)yeti Wrote: Some of the biggest assholes I know "rarely curse". It just makes their own assholes that much tighter, doesn't it!

Har dee har har. No. It just means that you and I have different ideas of what constitutes an 'asshole'. Apparently, you think that an asshole is anyone who disagrees with your god-given right to be a dictator. I, of course, have a different definition. One that isn't so self-serving as yours. Something a bit more 'universalizable', which is the foundation of ethics.

(05-19-2012, 07:29 PM)yeti Wrote: Sorry, I don't confess to assholes.

You don't need to confess to me. But you should have confessed to the community of donators whom you decided to make responsible for paying for your mistake. Or are they all assholes too?

(05-19-2012, 07:29 PM)yeti Wrote: I called you an asshole because you made shit up and used it to insult me, like you're doing right now.

No. I challenged your authority. And you didn't like it. You like people kissing your butt. And sorry, I don't do that...

(05-19-2012, 07:29 PM)yeti Wrote: How much cash have you donated?

How many other paying projects do you have running on that box that nobody knows about? Besides, why would I pay you money when I find your authoritarian god-complex so off-putting? This isn't the first time you and I have bumped heads. But it's been quite some time since that last happened, so I won't hold it against you for forgetting. The ONE other time, to perhaps refresh your memory, was when you decided you didn't like the comments in the tracker, and pushed everyone to the forum instead. That cut down on the comments, as I told you it would. But you got your way, as you always do. Because you listen to YOU...and nobody else.

I was willing to walk away and consider things settled. Obviously you weren't.
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