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Server Bandwidth Overage Charges
05-19-2012, 11:43 PM,
#16
RE: Server Bandwidth Overage Charges
First off I want to say, Thank you yeti for running a great server. I just felt you should know many of us appreciate what your doing and don't whine and complain about trying to offer features, and don't find it careless to try to get some more donations to provide some better features or speed.

As far as I see it this is Yeti's server and has the right to run in how ever he pleases. All you complainers are being ignorant in my opinion. If you don't like the way Yeti wants to run it then go to a different conspiracy torrent site (If you can find any good ones), and if any of you think you could do it better, then quit bitching and go create your own torrent site.

Summary:

Words mean nothing, if you think you can do it better then go out there and prove it with action.

&

THANKS AGAIN YETI FOR RUNNING A FINE SERVER :-)

BStoltman
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05-20-2012, 01:14 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-20-2012, 01:16 AM by shuffle.)
#17
RE: Server Bandwidth Overage Charges
I think Yeti has earned a place of trustworthy-ness thru his long term dedication to creating a system that suits as many of us as possible after Mike departed.

Many ppl here don't know the longer term history of this site and how hard it is to operate a long term service such as the concen tracker. It takes a certain sort of person to hang round thru the ebb and flow of community disputes and changes in net technology etc etc.

For once in my life I'm happy to go with Tom's idea of what works best - so long as the wider group are kept informed now and then of larger changes.

- So cut him a bit of slack!
"We are just glorified monkeys in suits.... show me where it's written we should be able to model the cosmos?!" -Terence McKenna, 21st Century Bard
R.I.P-ranks Terence. I miss your take on life.
=-=
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05-20-2012, 09:17 AM,
#18
RE: Server Bandwidth Overage Charges
We don't have to love or admins, or suck up to them, or even respect them but yeti is a different breed in the context of ConCen.

Everything else aside (whether you advocate or repent his words or action) he is and has been the enabling backbone of the community conduit for years on end. He has not been appropriated slack he has earned it, more than anyone else here soley due to the inherent responsibility of his role in keeping this engine going forward.

I have a tad of insight as to what he does on a daily basis in his unenviable position on the front lines of responsibility for this medium of interchange. He asserts and accepts and puts himself out there on the brunt of the technical, functional, social, legal and administrative.

Yeti is more than competent enough to manage, adapt and customize our resources on one of the few hosts that still allow the BT protocol. I place a lot of trust in his judgment and his ability. He's human, with all the faults and follies but also with the heart of one.

He works in the best interests of the ConCen community, not without some imperfections, he's neither omnipotent nor infallible. Intelligent and well phrased suggestions are always welcome. We have a whole section dedicated to that topic.

ConCen is a group of strong minded, strong willed individuals who tend to think for themselves, for the most part. This community was neither built nor is it sustained by a single individual, but it does need a host that allows torrents and it does need a competent technical facilitator.

Reality is that the host has us at their mercy, to a point. A point that has been made evident by a simple invoice. Because of that, we always like to keep our options open to hedge our bets and have acted upon that in the past, so we are willing to migrate -- given an appropriate cost-benefit (including protocol policy) analysis.

ConCen is a community. It can't exist without posters. It can't exist without seeders. It can't exist without donations. It can't exist without a willing hosting provider. It can't exist without mods, admins and technical facilitator(s).

It is what it is, it it is was and will be what we put into the conglomerate entity that is ConCen. Like anything else, you get out what you put into it. But in an objective evaluation of relative proportionality to that effect, I can and will personally can attest to a favourable disproportion to the beneficial based on what I have put into and, in turn, received due to my involvement with this online community.

A deep gratitude is owed from me to all the tributaries involved in the community - past, present and future.

.. and I strongly feel the best has yet to come from each of us, whether it be through the site and/or on our own path of action.
There are no others, there is only us.
http://FastTadpole.com/
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05-20-2012, 09:48 AM,
#19
RE: Server Bandwidth Overage Charges
@ shuffle
I dont think anyone is saying that Yeti doesnt put his all into the site - anyone who at midnight on new years eve is writing code has got to be commited...

What is apparent though is the reluctance to see other options.
Im not a techie but the logic of Epinnoias posts even I can understand and as he/she says this is more about personal preference (on Yetis part) than an objective view of the options available.

To choose to pay more when you apparently dont need to seems counter intuitive.

And where is the pressure to get files out so "instantaneously?" Dont people just go to work/sleep/have fun and just let them download in their own time ready for the next time they log in?

@fast tadpole
Quote:we always like to keep our options open to hedge our bets and have acted upon that in the past, so we are willing to migrate -- given an appropriate cost-benefit (including protocol policy) analysis.

Interesting use of "we" here as the point Epinnoia is making is that the "I" is the driving force here. There is to my understanding no "commitee" which assesses, discusses or drives change on the site? Please correct me if Im wrong.


We should be able to present an opinion (backed by sound logic) and have this repected as such rather than fall back on the tired old "asshole" argument.

...though Im sure saying this will now categorise me as an "asshole" again - Undecided
Remember you are unique
...just like everyone else.
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05-20-2012, 10:56 AM,
#20
RE: Server Bandwidth Overage Charges
Quote:Interesting use of "we" here as the point Epinnoia is making is that the "I" is the driving force here. There is to my understanding no "commitee" which assesses, discusses or drives change on the site? Please correct me if Im wrong.

I guess the committee (mods + members) can't really force anything but we can make a compelling argument to change policy servers or otherwise, which have been entertained in the past (here's a link to the last big ConCen money bum drive borne of a previous economic shortfall precipitated by server fees) that sparked debate on finding another host.

I do know, from my PoV as a Mod, that we do take in all suggestions posted in the virtual box.

There is no 'system' for addressing suggestions and posts are handled by whomever is there to answer the call, be it by a Mod or a helpful member enabled with some insight/knowledge to address the query. Posts in that section are pretty much immune to being orphaned and rarely are met with a derogatory bitch slap by a troll/member in a bad mood with no better outlet at the time to attempt to displace/diffuse/vent their emotion.

In short, all members are free to contribute ideas or voice their assent/dissent for a decision which is taken under consideration. Ideas are all taken and evaluated equally, based on merit alone but implementation of a suggested course is not a democratic process. That said, there is no set hierarchical formula employed.

The final decision is, of course, pendant on the proposal. Infrastructural technical decisions are executed by yeti alone and he does have a veto on that realm. Social type decisions (such as new form topics, content/member bans, etc.) are executed by the mod team, usually by consensus but can be overridden. That said, mods do defer to the rules - which have been set up, purposefully, in a black and white manner, such as no software uploads allowed on the tracker.

So present what you want, what you feel is best for the ConCen community, it doesn't end up in a black hole, but do your research (hint: use search to see if the idea has previously been vetted) and present your case.
There are no others, there is only us.
http://FastTadpole.com/
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05-21-2012, 08:23 PM,
#21
RE: Server Bandwidth Overage Charges
(05-17-2012, 05:53 AM)Richie086 Wrote: I just donated $30.. hope that helps!Clap

On behalf of the members, I thank you!

[Image: randquote.png]
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05-21-2012, 08:25 PM,
#22
RE: Server Bandwidth Overage Charges
(05-19-2012, 11:43 PM)BStoltman Wrote: THANKS AGAIN YETI FOR RUNNING A FINE SERVER :-)

Thanks for your thanks and support!

[Image: randquote.png]
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05-25-2012, 12:33 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-25-2012, 12:56 PM by sekular.)
#23
RE: Server Bandwidth Overage Charges
(05-18-2012, 08:11 PM)yeti Wrote:
(05-18-2012, 10:04 AM)sekular Wrote: Why don't you change to a cheaper hosting provider?

Since I own the server I just rent rack space.

(05-18-2012, 10:04 AM)sekular Wrote: May i ask yeti what is the current hosting package that you use, do you a have a link?

It's not a hosting package; I rent rackspace and own the server. http://securedatabank.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=75&Itemid=66 (2U Single Server @ 151 Front St.)

What are your motivations behind renting a rack over renting a dedicated server? Renting rack space is by far more expensive and for this sort of deployment I would think a rented dedicated server would be more appropriate.

I understand the benefits to owning your own server, although I believe they are largely negligible.

The tracker database and forum database is probably not very big and could easily be backed up over the net. So there would be no drawback in terms of having the sites data on a rented server.

I would be interested to hear why you prefer to rent rackspace and may I ask if you purchased the server yourself? racked servers can be very expensive to purchase, which is why dedicated rentals are more popular. More bang for the buck as the saying goes.

So not only would it be a cheaper payment per month, but you would get a higher spec server and bandwidth for a lower cost. Seems win win to me.

I was just looking in to canadian co location providers and bandwidth does seem expensive there.

I found an example in Chicago which might not be so convenient for you, as in down the road from your house so you can go with a usb drive and take all the data off. But in terms of cheapness it is no comparison.

https://www.fdcservers.net/order-1.php?plan_id=186

unmetered 100mbit for $80 a month.

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05-25-2012, 06:42 PM,
#24
RE: Server Bandwidth Overage Charges
(05-25-2012, 12:33 PM)sekular Wrote: What are your motivations behind renting a rack over renting a dedicated server?

At this point it's all just inertia. Initially, way back in February 2008 it was about having my own hand built server on the intertubes. I was living in Toronto at the time. The deal I got then is the same deal we're using today, more than four years later. So is the server - four years running continuously without a single hardware fault.

(05-25-2012, 12:33 PM)sekular Wrote: Renting rack space is by far more expensive

That depends. In Feb. 2008 there were way less dedicated servers out there. Companies mostly provided virtual servers. The few who offered fully dedicated charged too much - you would be paying for it within a year but still not own it. You were also locked into a contract.

(05-25-2012, 12:33 PM)sekular Wrote: and for this sort of deployment I would think a rented dedicated server would be more appropriate.

Considering how old "deli" is now, and the fact that the market has changed, I would agree.

(05-25-2012, 12:33 PM)sekular Wrote: The tracker database and forum database is probably not very big and could easily be backed up over the net.

True.

(05-25-2012, 12:33 PM)sekular Wrote: So there would be no drawback in terms of having the sites data on a rented server.

There are legal issues to consider.

(05-25-2012, 12:33 PM)sekular Wrote: I would be interested to hear why you prefer to rent rackspace and may I ask if you purchased the server yourself?

I bought it in parts in Feb. 2008. It was a fantastic deal then to build your own because all the brand names charged way too much for stuff that is mostly crap.

(05-25-2012, 12:33 PM)sekular Wrote: racked servers can be very expensive to purchase, which is why dedicated rentals are more popular. More bang for the buck as the saying goes.

I'll always be able to build my own server cheaper and/or better quality than buying one. There will always be companies out there who rent dedicated servers for very little money, but how long are they going to last?

(05-25-2012, 12:33 PM)sekular Wrote: So not only would it be a cheaper payment per month, but you would get a higher spec server and bandwidth for a lower cost. Seems win win to me.

Deli is 4 years old now, so what is true now wasn't then. I agree that there are better deals out there than what we have now.

(05-25-2012, 12:33 PM)sekular Wrote: I was just looking in to canadian co location providers and bandwidth does seem expensive there.

Yup. We're communications pioneers who have a long history of subsidizing our telcos with taxpayer money while simultaneously getting fucked over by them. Cool huh?

(05-25-2012, 12:33 PM)sekular Wrote: I found an example in Chicago which might not be so convenient for you, as in down the road from your house so you can go with a usb drive and take all the data off. But in terms of cheapness it is no comparison.

https://www.fdcservers.net/order-1.php?plan_id=186

unmetered 100mbit for $80 a month.

Maybe it's time to pass the paddle. I tried to years ago, but nobody came forward. I really do want to get on with my life. Nobody gives a shit about the wiki, so there's no point in bothering with the rest of the dev work anyway, so why not just pack it in?

If someone else who the community trusts wants to take over I'd give them the DBs in a heartbeat.

[Image: randquote.png]
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05-26-2012, 01:47 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-26-2012, 02:02 PM by sekular.)
#25
RE: Server Bandwidth Overage Charges
I think you gave a very reasonable answer. Legal issues, you get to own it, was the best option at the time etc. But I would just like to make the suggestion. That if in the case ever that you do run in to the situation where you have a lack of money to finance the website. I would suggest to, rather than close the website down, to move the databases to a realy cheap dedicated server. If even only for a temporary amount of time. Until you can sort out the money problems. I think you have done a good job recently of admin the website.
If you want to keep it in canada which is perfectly understandable I found what seems like a well organized provider hivelocity.net
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05-27-2012, 12:21 PM,
#26
RE: Server Bandwidth Overage Charges
yeti Wrote:Maybe it's time to pass the paddle. I tried to years ago, but nobody came forward. I really do want to get on with my life. Nobody gives a shit about the wiki, so there's no point in bothering with the rest of the dev work anyway, so why not just pack it in?

If someone else who the community trusts wants to take over I'd give them the DBs in a heartbeat.

That's quite an announcement. Should it not be on the front page of the tracker and Forum?
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