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Is Oxygen depletion more worrying than global warming?
03-27-2009, 12:23 AM,
#16
Is Oxygen depletion more worrying than global warming?
Quote:firefighters were not only present but reported isolated fires that could be "knocked out with handlines"...and then there is the case of the molten steel recorded coming of the side of the building - quite a range of temperatures - you put the collapse down to the effects of kerosine, do you?
Yeah, yeah. They got ABOVE the fire, did they? Give me a break! They got to the UNDERSIDE of the fire. Hot air POURS upwards and forms an inverted "lake" against ceilings. The HOTTEST part of the fire is THERE. It softens the steel THERE. The fireman were quite possibly FIFTY FEET BELOW that point.

Once that structure got ONE INCH out of line, it had ONLY ONE WAY TO GO.

Quote:In terms of structural issues - squibs aside - have you watched Loosechange final cut, JR?
I do believe I have. Eight tons of kerosine can melt quite a lot of aluminum. 250 KILOTONS of TNT equivalent energy can create a lot of microspheres. There was enough sulfur in the gypsum of those buildings too.

THE STRUCTURES WERE NON-REDUNDANT!
03-27-2009, 12:57 AM,
#17
Is Oxygen depletion more worrying than global warming?
Quote:
Quote:firefighters were not only present but reported isolated fires that could be "knocked out with handlines"...and then there is the case of the molten steel recorded coming of the side of the building - quite a range of temperatures - you put the collapse down to the effects of kerosine, do you?
Yeah, yeah. They got ABOVE the fire, did they? Give me a break! They got to the UNDERSIDE of the fire. Hot air POURS upwards and forms an inverted "lake" against ceilings. The HOTTEST part of the fire is THERE. It softens the steel THERE. The fireman were quite possibly FIFTY FEET BELOW that point.

Once that structure got ONE INCH out of line, it had ONLY ONE WAY TO GO.

Quote:In terms of structural issues - squibs aside - have you watched Loosechange final cut, JR?
I do believe I have. Eight tons of kerosine can melt quite a lot of aluminum. 250 KILOTONS of TNT equivalent energy can create a lot of microspheres. There was enough sulfur in the gypsum of those buildings too.

THE STRUCTURES WERE NON-REDUNDANT!

The structures were grossly OVERBUILT to handle such stresses - it's debatable that kerosine could effect such a warping of the structure - the design of the building was specifically constructed with preventing pancaking, in mind. The jetfuel is supposed to have flooded DOWN the elevator shafts..and that's not even to mention the SQUIBS.

JR, there are like a thousand or so anomalities - watch loose change final cut, at least.

If you think the official story rolls straight, what can I say? :P
03-27-2009, 01:32 AM, (This post was last modified: 03-27-2009, 01:58 AM by JazzRoc.)
#18
Is Oxygen depletion more worrying than global warming?
Quote:The structures were grossly OVERBUILT to handle such stresses
The load factor is TEN. That's in COMPRESSION but NOT IN BUCKLING.

Quote:it's debatable that kerosine could effect such a warping of the structure
Expansion ALONE would produce THAT INCH (as soon as the skin lost its floor ties).

Quote:the design of the building was specifically constructed with preventing pancaking
Only a redundant structure would cope with that. The buildings didn't start off very redundant, and rapidly lost their remaining redundancy on TWO corners. It only took THAT. A ten-floor section pancaking one floor would ALWAYS get to the ground.

Quote:The jetfuel is supposed to have flooded DOWN the elevator shafts
EVEN IF IT DID, IT WOULD SOON BE BACK!

Quote:not even to mention the SQUIBS
Such a descending building is A BIG PISTON. Even concrete walls would blow out...

Quote:a thousand or so anomalies
They were BIG buildings. There would be "anomalies".

Quote:watch loose change final cut, at least
I'm sure I have.

Quote:If you think the official story rolls straight
That lot - STRAIGHT? :angry021: I think they were devious and stupid. As was Loose Change. Doesn't alter my view of the physics.

My real objection to everyone here that this (and many others) are elaborate conspiracies is this:

To perform in real-time a very elaborate and apparently perfect demolition of TWO buildings each containing thousands of occupants and hundreds of firefighters presupposes both a demoniacal, sinister, and capable controlling intelligence.

And this is DUBYAH? CHENEY? ANY OTHER OF THAT GANG? FOR CRYING OUT LOUD !

JUST SHOW ME ANYTHING (AT ALL) THEY'VE MANAGED THAT WELL. ESCAPING INDICTMENT, PERHAPS?

No, not even that, because those capable of unseating them were too cowardly to carry it out, more's the pity.
03-27-2009, 01:43 AM, (This post was last modified: 03-27-2009, 01:48 AM by ---.)
#19
Is Oxygen depletion more worrying than global warming?
Quote:That lot - STRAIGHT? :angry021: I think they were devious and stupid. As was Loose Change. Doesn't alter my view of the physics.

...final cut

maybe also '911 insider trading'

these 'pilots' were very good considering they were out getting pissed the night before and couldn't even handle a sessna - I'm more inclined to think that even if they (the planes) were hijacked it doesn't preclude the feasibility of them being on 'remote'

what of the POD?

what about the BOMBS at the BASE of the building? Do you waive off living testimonies?

'Multiple explosions' - do you waive off living testimonies?

footprints - rate of fall?

the B thing? heard of that?

When I say squibs - I surely mean squibs. There's plenty of demolition experts who have staked their professional reputation on stating such - not only Americans either -JR, maybe you think you're on a debunking roll? I think this is a hill to steep too climb ie it's a fool's folly - those buildings were brought down by a multi faceted attack - the buildings were RIGGED - the evidence is overwhelming.
03-27-2009, 11:20 AM, (This post was last modified: 03-27-2009, 11:24 AM by JazzRoc.)
#20
Is Oxygen depletion more worrying than global warming?
'nik' Mar 27 2009, 12:43 AM' post='163815'

'remote' You've obviously not remotely-controlled an airplane. The pod thing is a wrinkle, but heightening the resolution creates artefacts. If the people weren't in the plane, where are they? If they were in the plane, and someone had murdered them previously, how was that done?

BOMBS 'Multiple explosions' Kerosine down the liftshaft KERBOOM - lift down the liftshaft POW - liftshaft down the liftshaft KERRRAANNNG. Anything falling 400 yards CREATES an explosion.

footprints - rate of fall? - so you think that 4' x 3' columns are going to bring a 100,000 tons of structure doing 50 mph to a stop INDIVIDUALLY, do you? They might as well have been made of butter.

the B thing? heard of that? - No. Am I disqualified?

the evidence is overwhelming And George Bush and his admin the cleverest ever to be in power, successful as they have been throughout Afghanistan, Iraq, and New Orleans, and I'm a sugar plum fairy.

[Image: big_smile.jpg]
03-27-2009, 12:07 PM, (This post was last modified: 03-27-2009, 12:08 PM by ---.)
#21
Is Oxygen depletion more worrying than global warming?
Oh, no - I'm not saying Bush and co. 'did it'; complicity or foreknowledge isn't 'doing it' per se - they can't be that stupid, in the sangfroid way anyhow, they were in power, after all - and seem to have gotten away with everything they did so far. Like Bliar

Multiple explosions - that kerosine must have been syrupy considering the amount of time between some of the reports of explosions.

The rate of fall and 'compactness' of the footprint bear all the hallmarks of a controlled demolition. All three times.

'The B thing' is the title given to a mysterious event with loose ends some Israeli 'student artists' being given space as a studio rent free in the WTC a short time before the attacks - I far as I remember they had left before September 11th. Not like it's new security chief - first day on the job or so? Re-assigned there after investigating the Oklahoma bombing. WTC had amongst the highest costing rental space in NYC?

The pod was a mistaken analysis of the photographic evidence you think?
Well, remote controlled sounds more plausible to me than those who are said to have flown 'doing it.' Robot fish,dogs, octopus' and drones aside - hi-technology is seemingly on the verge of something. I find it more logical than it being those guys and his story. *shrugs*
03-27-2009, 11:38 PM, (This post was last modified: 03-30-2009, 12:23 AM by JazzRoc.)
#22
Is Oxygen depletion more worrying than global warming?
One of the towers DID fall a ways off centre. I've definitely seen a shot showing a top corner at least a hundred feet off-line. It must have been the one that smacked WTC7 (many hundred feet away).

There were a few more energy sources in the towers, and a big generator fuel tank in WTC7.

Remote-controlling isn't very easy when you HAVE to get it right first time.

If you remember the deliberate crash-test of a 707 (testing a "non-inflammable" fuel mix) which succeeded (they crashed it) but failed (it burst into flames). It was a one-off, and they were a littled off-course and it didn't work out right for them. They had EVERY OPPORTUNITY to get that right (a closely-following chase aircraft), and they didn't.

Now compare that with the tower approaches - one of them doing an EXTREME maneuver at 570mph, with NOBODY (AND ESPECIALLY NOT A CHASE AIRCRAFT) near them.

Pilot.
03-28-2009, 12:00 AM, (This post was last modified: 03-28-2009, 12:03 AM by ---.)
#23
Is Oxygen depletion more worrying than global warming?
Quote:One of the towers DID fall a ways off centre. I've definitely seen a shot showing a top corner at least a hundred feet off-line. It must have been the one that smaked WTC7 (many hundred feet away).

There were a few more energy sources in the towers, and a big generator fuel tank in WTC7.

Remote-controlling isn't very easy when you HAVE to get it right first time.

If you remember the deliberate crash-test of a 707 (testing a "non-inflammable" fuel mix) which succeeded (they crashed it) but failed (it burst into flames). It was a one-off, and they were a littled off-course and it didn't work out right for them. They had EVERY OPPORTUNITY to get that right (a closely-following chase aircraft), and they didn't.

Now compare that with the tower approaches - one of them doing an EXTREME maneuver at 570mph, with NOBODY (AND ESPECIALLY NOT A CHASE AIRCRAFT) near them.

Pilot.

I don't follow that 'logic' whatsoever - because it was such a difficult maneuver to accomplish it obviously would more likely be ill trained hung over 'pilots' rather than a semi automated system? the trajectory doesn't get any easier if those sessna failures were at the helm - by line of your rationale

Anyhow - pod - we forget that because you say it 'was just an anomaly in the photograph'

Big deal the top of one tower slid over 'slightly' - it certainly doesn't negate the facts that the collapses ALL denoted the hallmarks of controlled demolitions.

I guess everything else I've mentioned is overlooked as it doesn't fit into your non-conspiratorial outlook *shrugs*

AFAIC, I feel bad having this conversation with you as it's beyond credulity to still believe they came down because two planes hit them flown by hungover CIA asset/terrorists.
03-28-2009, 01:28 AM,
#24
Is Oxygen depletion more worrying than global warming?
JR, I'm just curious about something since you're such a debunker.

Is there any conspiracy theory on this site that you would agree with?
We can obviously rule out chemtrails and such, but how about things like global governance
or vaccines, or fluoridation?
03-29-2009, 04:49 PM, (This post was last modified: 03-30-2009, 12:43 AM by JazzRoc.)
#25
Is Oxygen depletion more worrying than global warming?
Quote:JR, I'm just curious about something since you're such a debunker. Is there any conspiracy theory on this site that you would agree with? We can obviously rule out chemtrails and such, but how about things like global governance or vaccines, or fluoridation?
Global - yes. Vaccines - no, fluoridation (well done for getting the u and the o the right way round) - no.
I was tempted by fluoridation, as the argument in the States was that a chemical company was getting paid for getting rid of a commodity which was a poisonous waste deficit. Rather like Kelloggs, who had to find a use for the corn oil waste product - cornflakes - what a wheeze! But they fluoridate in England and on the Continent. Places in Italy have a higher fluoride level in their water naturally. They aren't sick.
The arguments about vaccines are always conducted by people incapable of understanding scientific method. That isn't to say that vaccines aren't created by such people as well, so one has to remain cautious.
No - the governance thing is different, professional bodies and standards are not employed, many clandestine acts take place. Information is definitely concealed. Governance. Banking. That stuff.
03-30-2009, 12:39 AM, (This post was last modified: 03-30-2009, 12:40 AM by JazzRoc.)
#26
Is Oxygen depletion more worrying than global warming?
Quote:a semi automated system? the trajectory doesn't get any easier
Semi-automated systems are just that: they work from the airfield to a nav point, the nav point to the next nav point, and so on down to an airfield. They are not designed to fly you at low level into a large building in a large city. They aren't Tomahawk guidance systems. I'm not sure you could "key in" such a course at all. They looked pilot-flown, and I've watched a few planes flying about in my life, etc., etc.

Quote:we forget that because you say it 'was just an anomaly in the photograph'
You forget that because you have to explain where the passengers went, and why their bereaved are still visiting cemetaries with empty graves.

Quote:Big deal the top of one tower slid over 'slightly' - it certainly doesn't negate the facts that the collapses ALL denoted the hallmarks of controlled demolitions.
Where their charges didn't work right, and they struck another five buildings?

Quote:I guess everything else I've mentioned is overlooked
No. They are definitely complicit. They should have been impeached even if they weren't complicit at all.

Quote:AFAIC, I feel bad having this conversation with you
Aaaw! Then take those "warn" squares away...
03-30-2009, 02:28 AM,
#27
Is Oxygen depletion more worrying than global warming?
There were 2 TV stations that reported this story, 1 with video. (Total 3, 2 written, 1 video). This is all that remains of the 3 http://web.archive.org/web/20021109040132/...al/story14.html

03-30-2009, 12:38 PM,
#28
Is Oxygen depletion more worrying than global warming?
Quote:There were 2 TV stations that reported this story, 1 with video. (Total 3, 2 written, 1 video). This is all that remains of the 3 http://web.archive.org/web/20021109040132/...al/story14.html
Yes, I remember that. Has there been NO other follow-up at all?
03-30-2009, 12:56 PM, (This post was last modified: 03-30-2009, 01:03 PM by rsol.)
#29
Is Oxygen depletion more worrying than global warming?
jazz please explain why temperatures were crazy hot on the ground surface (recorded by NASA). It was melting the workers boots. This was under all three buildings. Does all that kinetic energy get converted into concrete dust and heat? maybe all the already spent jet fuel reignited under the rubble? the talk of molten metal "glowing" "like a foundry"

Also how can a 1/3 of a building(no matter how large) falling with nothing but gravity on its side, break down a perfectly fine 2/3 of the same building that is perfectly stable and manage to go all the way through down to the bottom. not even classic cone shape rubble but into its own footprint? not to mention the WTC1 building to go down only had about 15 floors compared to the other, which had about half the weight, and still exhibit exactly the same reaction. Physics my man. two identical objects hit in two difference places. two buildings hit at different heights and both fall at virtually free fall speed. no stopping, no leaning, straight down. total floor failure at exactly the same time. All support columns buckled just in the nick...twice in a row


Also...chiefs of staff write these plans up, not presidents, they just OK them.

Not one person expected them to collapse until they did. If its so obvious to you now, why was everyone else so surprised? Oh and yes. the covering up of evidence? the switching of stories from one thing to the next?

Please no flippant answers you know how i get:)

why climate change has swung to this ill never know.....
03-30-2009, 09:21 PM, (This post was last modified: 03-30-2009, 09:56 PM by JazzRoc.)
#30
Is Oxygen depletion more worrying than global warming?
Quote:jazz please explain why temperatures were crazy hot on the ground surface (recorded by NASA). It was melting the workers boots. This was under all three buildings. Does all that kinetic energy get converted into concrete dust and heat? maybe all the already spent jet fuel reignited under the rubble? the talk of molten metal "glowing" "like a foundry"
250 KT, as I said before, explains ALL these phenomena. Look it up. Maybe I'm not making the case plainly: TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY THOUSAND TONS OF TRINITROTOLUENE. Find out how much steel that can melt. It's the sort of calculation that engineers do every day, in one form or another. They have all agreed the towers came down in the manner described, and you won't take their word for it. So don't. Do the math yourself. Oh, and potential energy is equivalent to kinetic energy at impact, which IS heat. You could take that route to check whether the statement "250KT energy equivalent" is true in the first place. So, as I say, either take the professionals' word for it, or do it yourself. It isn't rocket science.

Quote:Also how can a 1/3 of a building(no matter how large) falling with nothing but gravity on its side, break down a perfectly fine 2/3 of the same building that is perfectly stable and manage to go all the way through down to the bottom. not even classic cone shape rubble but into its own footprint? not to mention the WTC1 building to go down only had about 15 floors compared to the other, which had about half the weight, and still exhibit exactly the same reaction. Physics my man. two identical objects hit in two difference places. two buildings hit at different heights and both fall at virtually free fall speed. no stopping, no leaning, straight down. total floor failure at exactly the same time. All support columns buckled just in the nick...twice in a row
That's why Galileo threw unequal weights off the tower of Pisa. Human beings' inability to understand that ALL MASS FALLS WITH THE ACCELERATION OF 32.2 FEET PER SECOND PER SECOND. The lighter scenario - the momentum of 15 floors (70,000 tons - the TITANIC) at 12 mph - was enough to push ALL columns aside as if they were made of butter. By the time the next floor comes along, you've added another floor to the mass, and everything's moving at a clip - your TITANIC(+) is doing 40 mph... nobody really has any way of imagining the carnage... no part of the building contents bigger than 2" square? ...And your reiteration of the same old question shows that I failed to convince you of the difference between a redundant and a non-redundant structure. I'm sure WIKI has words on it. Physics my man.

Quote:they just OK them
And the buck stops AT them.

Quote:Not one person expected them to collapse until they did. If its so obvious to you now, why was everyone else so surprised? Oh and yes. the covering up of evidence? the switching of stories from one thing to the next?
I'm not covering up for crap artists. It's THEIR crap.

Quote:Please no flippant answers you know how i get:)
:chores015:

Quote:why climate change has swung to this ill never know...
:dunno:Maybe because no-one at all knows whether it's happening or not, but glaciers are shorter, and there are some figures that don't look good, and some simulations that don't look good either. There was a piece in the Telegraph yesterday: a scientist who KNOWS that the Maldives (very low islands in the Indian Ocean) are NOT submerging. Also the mean tide at Newlyn, Cornwall has stayed the same.

Trouble is, thanks to Alfred Wegener we now KNOW that the crustal plates may rise and fall, rock and roll, thus making a mockery of any and maybe all mean sea level measurements.

Where to go from here? Even if we have INCONTROVERTIBLE PROOF, it may be that we actually overstepped our mark a decade ago, and all we can do now is attempt to limit the incredible damage which is going to happen to our way of life.


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