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Is the Pentagram the mark of Lucifer?
09-16-2011, 04:22 AM, (This post was last modified: 09-16-2011, 04:24 AM by Armilus.)
#16
RE: Is the Pentagram the mark of Lucifer?
Yes, i respect Akhenaten very much for that. What they had before him was much more primitive than his Sun-Disc monotheism. This is one nice example how things should be, he wanted to help people with his religion, not to enslave them. Of course they conspired against him, and after his death Egypt reverted back to more primitive worship, and many stories were invented about how bad he was. Of course he was bad and dangerous -- for the corrupted elite. His ideas were too revolutionary for that period of time, against currents of time, which is the main reason why i respect him. Monotheism is nothing bad, but it easily becomes corrupted when it is used for political agendas, which is the main problem today.
"Success is the sole earthly judge of right and wrong." -- Herr Wolf
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02-04-2012, 05:36 PM,
#17
RE: Is the Pentagram the mark of Lucifer?
Lets face it, Christianity has borrowed nearly 90%, if not more, of their core ideals from Paganism, BTW that can be traced as far back as 10,000 BCE. Easter is NOT a christian holiday either, this is true. You can find even Christian videos on YouTube telling everyone to stop worshiping Easter, because it is a Pagan holiday. This is just like the "Great Flood" that Noah had endured... Which is the same story retold by Christians, even though the Pagan story is nearly the same but 'happened' some 5000 years earlier. This is the same with most religions, where older concepts are 'borrowed' and adapted for the new religion. Just as the symbolism is. And even in Christianity took this one step further, to bastardize many symbols, such as the pentagram, to promote Christianity and deter/condemn other religions. The whole Christianity thing and its... 'its my way or death' mentality reminds me so much of Hitler, minus the gas chambers, in favor of more brutal and disturbing practices.

Pagans were tortured and/or slaughtered for their beliefs, and the forms of torture were to conform these Pagans into Christians. They were tortured by several means: boiling oil, crushed bones via presses and vices, spiked filled iron boots, molten lead dripping on them, and a whole set of other 'nice' things.. Yes, including the rack. The torture would continue until they either admitted to their torturer of their guilt (following another religion), and/or 'repented' and became christian. If they confessed.. put to death... if they converted, allowed to live with their scars and now serious handicaps. Making them often a target off ridicule from past beliefs.

I guess the 'Treat others as you wish to be treated' and orders shush as, 'Thou shall not kill' are only followed when convenient. And as for this God of 'mercy' and 'forgiveness'.. Yeah right.

From a website:
"...I counted the number of people that were killed by God in the Bible. I came up with 2,476,633, which, of course, greatly underestimates God's total death toll, since it only includes those killings for which specific numbers are given. No attempt was made to include the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc., with which the good book is filled."

While Satan has killed a mere 10.
Personally, reverse God and Satan, and then the Bible actually starts to make sense.

And don't get me started on their whole 'Free Will' garbage.
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02-04-2012, 10:22 PM,
#18
RE: Is the Pentagram the mark of Lucifer?
(02-04-2012, 05:36 PM)sargo Wrote: Lets face it, Christianity has borrowed nearly 90%, if not more, of their core ideals from Paganism

Okay, then share such an ideal...as you merely shared religious festivals that were adopted when people converted.

Also, not a single pagan was killed or tortured by a true follower of Christ, this yet again is about definitions, and the fact that just because one may call a black kettle white, it doesn't change reality.

The numbers of death are in fact incorrect. Satan hasn't "killed" anyone, that would have been God as well, being that it is He and He alone who gives and takes away. But again, that's missing the point, and is only relevant to those who count this life as the be all and end all, and as something to be "taken" and "used", rather than lived through love.

You mentioned no stolen "ideals" though, so I look forward to hearing some of these tribal ideals that you see present within the new testament, that is, the foundational writings of Christianity.

Quote:"The recognition of the life of every man as sacred is the first and only basis of all ethics."
-- Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
"He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." -- 1 John 2:6
"Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly... This is the interrelated structure of reality." -- Martin Luther King Jr.
"He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him." -- Proverbs 18:13
"Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself." -- Leo Tolstoy
"To love is to be vulnerable" -- C.S Lewis

The Kingdom of God is within you! -- Luke 17:20-21

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02-05-2012, 12:35 AM,
#19
Rainbow  RE: Is the Pentagram the mark of Lucifer?
(09-12-2011, 11:43 PM)JJSunTsu Wrote: Is the Pentagram the mark of Lucifer?

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02-05-2012, 10:56 AM,
#20
RE: Is the Pentagram the mark of Lucifer?
Please keep in mind, that I do enjoy religious discussions of all kinds. They are wonderful learning tools for everyone on both sides. I am in no way saying one is right or wrong. I just find the different religions intriguing and fascinating. Yet, this very topic incites much anger and misunderstanding of those devote to their religion. Take everything with the grain of salt, this is just a discussion. Smile And sorry for the Loooong post.

(02-04-2012, 10:22 PM)Dunamis Wrote: Okay, then share such an ideal...as you merely shared religious festivals that were adopted when people converted.

The period of Lent for Christians culminates in the celebration of Easter. Christians celebrate the resurrection of Jesus Christ. But the very name of this holiday shows pagan origin. The term "Easter" is derived from Estre or Eostre, the Anglo-Saxon goddess of spring and dawn.

"Then he said to me, Have you seen this, O son of man? turn you yet again, and you shall see greater abominations than these. And he brought me into the inner court of the Lord's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the Lord, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the Lord [symbolic of rejecting God], and their faces toward the east; and they worshiped the sun toward the east" (Ezk.8:15-16).

This is exactly what people are doing when they participate in Easter sunrise services. They think that they are worshiping and honoring God, but in reality they are dishonoring him.
----
Christmas was actually adapted from a Roman celebration called Saturnalia. The Encyclopedia Romana explains that "at the time of the winter solstice (December 25 in the Julian calendar), Saturnus, the god of seed and sowing, was honored with a festival." The encyclopedia goes on to state that "the Saturnalia did continue to be celebrated as Brumalia (from "bruma," winter solstice) down to the Christian era, when, by the middle of the fourth century AD, its rituals had become absorbed in the celebration of Christmas."

As church officials attempted to convert Romans to Christianity, many of the residents continued to celebrate a major winter holiday, "Saturnalia", which was a celebration that lasted a week, which celebrated the Birth of the Unconquerable Sun. This celebration consisted of parades, merry-making and gift giving. Hench the exchanging of gifts during Christmas. This celebration culminated on December 25th with a celebration of the winter solstice.

Many Christians also display a Yule log in their homes during the Christmas holiday... Uh, Yule = Pagan. Even when I was a kid, in the Cub Scouts, were created Yule Logs for our parents as a Christmas presents! Yet I was told it was Christian in nature, which of course is wrong.
----
David Cloud, of the Fundamental Baptist Information Service, in Port Huron, MI, has stated, "Roman Catholicism has always represented a synchronization of Christianity with paganism. There is no biblical authority for the papacy, Mariolatry, purgatory, the veneration of saints, holy relics, holy water, and such. These doctrines and practices were borrowed from pagan religion and “Christianized.”"
----
The Death and Resurrection for Adonis, has been substituted for the true Christian Passover and has been accepted as the authentic Christian observance.
----
February 14th (aka Valentines Day): The Romans celebrated a holiday on February 14th to honor Juno Fructifier, Queen of the Roman gods and goddesses as well as goddess of marriage. But in 469, emperor Gelasius declared February 14th a holy day in honor of Valentinus instead of the pagan god Lupercus.
----
There are other Pagan holidays that appear to have been be "Christianized" by the Catholic Church as well...

Saint George's day, in April, occurs on the same day as the ancient festival of the Parilia.

The Feast of Saint John the Baptist, in June, is held very close to the date of a heathen festival of water, which celebrated the purifying of followers with water of the earth - in essence a type of baptism.

The holiday of the Assumption of Mary, in August, is similar to the festival of the goddess Diana.

The vigil of Saint Walpurga replaced the eve of May Day, which was the Celtic festival of Beltane, a festival of rebirth and renewal.

Quote:Also, not a single pagan was killed or tortured by a true follower of Christ, this yet again is about definitions, and the fact that just because one may call a black kettle white, it doesn't change reality.

Paganism (from Latin paganus, meaning "country dweller", "rustic") is a blanket term, typically used to refer to non-Abrahamic, indigenous polytheistic religious traditions. But yet, the Pagan religions had their beliefs and the very word 'Pagan' smeared by Christianity into something evil when there is nothing evil about it. Christians have gone to great lengths, many violent and destructive, to 'protect' christianity from the non-believers... These are all documented occurrences within history:

In 359, In Skythopolis, Syria, Christians organize the first death camps for the torture and execution of arrested Gentiles from all around the Empire.

Religious tolerance and restoration of Pagan cults declared in Constantinople (11th December 361) by the Pagan Emperor Flavius Claudius Julianus.
Then on the 26th of June 363, the assassination of Emperor Julianus.

In 397 - "Demolish them!" Emperor Flavius Arcadius orders referring all the still erect Pagan Temples.

Then in 423, Emperor Theodosius II, declares (on 8th June) that the Religion of the Gentiles is nothing more than "demon worship" and orders all those who persist in practicing it to be punished by imprisonment and tortured.

429, The Temple of Goddess Athena (Parthenon) on the Acropolis of Athens is sacked. Athenian Pagans are persecuted.

440 to 450, The Christians demolish all the monuments, altars and Temples of Athens, Olympia, and other Greek cities.

448, Theodosius II orders all non-christian books burned.

Then in 486, More "underground" Pagan priests are discovered, arrested, burlesqued, tortured and executed in Alexandria, Egypt.

"When Constantine the Great, made so by the assistance and valor of the Christian soldiers, had attained to be the only Roman Emperor, he also himself became a Christian, and caused the temples of the heathen gods to be demolished, and authorized Christian religion only to be public."
-- Crimes of Christianity, by G W Foote and J M Wheeler, quoting Hobbes

Then we have the pre-Christian temple sites taken over by Christians who built Churches on them:

- St. Peter, Rome
- Santa Maria Maggiore, Rome
- Santa Maria Rotunda, (the Pantheon) Rome
- Notre Dame, Paris
- St. Paul, London
- The Black Virgins found in churches and monasteries in Spain and Italy are really images of the Egyptian Goddess Isis and Her son Horus

And the Roman Catholic Church punished people for heresy - "an accusation levied against members of another group which has beliefs which conflict with those of the accusers. It is usually used to discuss violations of religious or traditional laws or codes" (hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heresy) Again, the Witch trials fell into this category. These practices are all against those who did not share the same beliefs by imprisonment and persecution, and death.

BTW, did you know the Roman Catholic Church was founded by the PAGAN Roman Emperor Constantine at the Council of Nicaea in 325 A.D.

Quote:You mentioned no stolen "ideals" though, so I look forward to hearing some of these tribal ideals that you see present within the new testament, that is, the foundational writings of Christianity.

Foundational writings? Hmmm... I'm no expert by any means, but what about the Old Testament? It's so very odd as to how so many Christians never make reference to that work. The Old Testament lays the foundation for the teachings and the events found in the New Testament. The Bible is a progressive work. It is like skipping the first half of any book, you will have a hard time understanding the characters, the plot, and the ending. The New Testament can only completely understood when it is seen as a fulfillment of the events, characters, laws, sacrificial system, covenants, and promises of the Old Testament.

Anyways, as in the Wicca religion, they have a 'Rede' that states at the end "An Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will". This simply states that if it does no harm to others, you are free to do it. In essence, this replaces most of the 10 commandments. But also keep in mind that Wicca was created in the 1950's, but does borrow extensively from Pagan lore and history, yet the ideology remains the essentially the same.. Rede ~ Commandments.
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02-05-2012, 12:19 PM,
#21
RE: Is the Pentagram the mark of Lucifer?
Again, loads of dates of festivals any person could find are pagan in origin if only they would "see with their eyes and hear with their ears" But yet...not a single ideal

Quote:i·de·al [ahy-dee-uhl, ahy-deel]
noun
1. a conception of something in its perfection.
2. a standard of perfection or excellence.
3. a person or thing conceived as embodying such a conception or conforming to such a standard, and taken as a model for imitation: Thomas Jefferson was his ideal.
4. an ultimate object or aim of endeavor, especially one of high or noble character: He refuses to compromise any of his ideals.
5. something that exists only in the imagination: To achieve the ideal is almost hopeless.

Say, the ideal on non-resistance to evil, faithfulness in marriage, of doing unto others as you would have them do unto you, or of giving away of wealth to become poor, there are just a few actual ideals.

If you can only provide dates of mans "festivities", which are far from bible based, then all you prove is that the Roman Catholic and High Church (CofE/Anglican) have their dates rooted in pagan culture...

...though we all know this...being that say for example, Europe and Britain were very much pagan prior to the church starting here. The new faith made a lot of sense to many, but traditions also were something people wanted to keep. AT the time, the workaround was to replace the thing "celebrated".

I of course now, see little use for such festivals to be observed. But then, I also take the Sabbath as being sundown Friday to sundown Saturday... unlike the pagan church which "moved it" to the first day of the week, Sunday.
"He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." -- 1 John 2:6
"Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly... This is the interrelated structure of reality." -- Martin Luther King Jr.
"He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him." -- Proverbs 18:13
"Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself." -- Leo Tolstoy
"To love is to be vulnerable" -- C.S Lewis

The Kingdom of God is within you! -- Luke 17:20-21

https://duckduckgo.com/
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02-06-2012, 09:53 AM,
#22
RE: Is the Pentagram the mark of Lucifer?
(02-05-2012, 12:19 PM)Dunamis Wrote: I of course now, see little use for such festivals to be observed. But then, I also take the Sabbath as being sundown Friday to sundown Saturday... unlike the pagan church which "moved it" to the first day of the week, Sunday.

The pagans have never moved anything in regards to their holidays, any date changes were done by the Roman Catholic Church. Have to remember, that Paganism has been around far longer than Christianity, at least by 10,000 years. Even the Babylonians has their version of Paganism circa 1696 – 1654 BC (some 3700 years ago). Christianity had only started to form in the 3rd and 4th century (AD), so there's a 4000 year age difference in the least.

Anyways, Pagan holidays are based upon the solstices and some additional ones that Wiccans follow. (Remember, Wicca is very new.. 1950s, so for contrast reasons, those could be ignored)

YULE: circa Dec. 21 (Winter Solstice)
IMBOLC: February 2 (Not viewed by all Pagans.. mostly Wicca and Celtic)
OSTARA: ~March 21 (Spring Equinox)
BELTANE: May 1 (Starting at dusk on the 30th and continuing until the dawn of the 1st)
LITHA: ~ June 21 (Summer Solstice)
LUGHNASSADH: August 1 (Corn ritual - Wiccan)
MABON: ~ Sept. 21 (Fall Equinox)
SAMHAIN: Oct. 31 / Nov. 1 (All Hollows Eve, primarily Wiccan, but others branches of Paganism may as well)

These dates have not changed in thousands and thousands of years. I don't know why Christianity sources keep saying that Paganism has intruded into their holidays or changes their dates, when Paganism clearly has been around for at least 5 times longer.

Quote:If you can only provide dates of mans "festivities", which are far from bible based...
Seriously here? How could they possible be Bible based, when the Bible would not been written for thousands of years? Paganism is the first known, and well documented religion, from this, all other European religions were created, derived, conceived, and eventually practiced.

Just because Christianity was created with some Pagan background, doesn't mean that either religion is an abomination of any kind. (Stand corrected.. the Bible says ALL other religions are an abomination.) Both are worldly recognized, but yet Christianity is hell-bent on destroying everything it stands for, While Pagans just want to be left alone to practice in their own ways and beliefs, but that seems will never happen.

Religious tolerance, is clearly not a religious based stand point... it's a government thing. But Christianity is the only religion that doesn't view a 'live and let live' attitude, but yet they say, "...doing unto others as you would have them do unto you...". Even the stand point was "An eye for an eye." I just don't get where the pure hatred of other religions comes from... Oh wait, cause God said so.

But your are right about the ideals. With the exception to the Wiccan Rede, there are no clearly defined ideals. Either they have been lost over time, or simply did not exist, who knows. I don't rule anything out, but the latter is most likely the answer.
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03-10-2012, 12:38 AM, (This post was last modified: 03-11-2012, 05:07 PM by peragrate.)
#23
RE: Is the Pentagram the mark of Lucifer?
I don't believe so. I've looked into it and based on experience, it is probably the most effective symbol for a multitude of defensive uses. I never think of it upside down. I don't associate it with anything evil, the devil as you said; it works very well for protection on many levels with or without any linguistic additions.

I think its bad reputation is probably due to propaganda events to move people away from one of the highest vibratory structures in this universe.

I don't think too much about God any more, simply because the multi-universe theories in quantum physics are staggering, when you understand (at least intellectually) the vastness of creation and how incredibly tiny we actually are, it kind of wipes out any heliocentric falsehoods. That's not to say I don't think about God, but that it seems to be a waste of time and energy. Time and energy I could be applying to the path of my walk.

*** EDIT ***
Hope I'm not responsible for killing this thread!
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