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Time for a new International Nuclear Event Scale?
03-20-2011, 10:43 PM, (This post was last modified: 03-21-2011, 12:04 AM by hubbabubba.)
#16
RE: Time for a new International Nuclear Event Scale?
I recommend listening to this press conference.

Update:

"The French nuclear agency IRSN said Friday that the Fukushima Daiichi plant had already released 10% as much radioactivity as Chernobyl, though the agency has been accused by some as being alarmist."

LA Times
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03-21-2011, 12:45 AM, (This post was last modified: 03-21-2011, 03:19 AM by Telecaster72.)
#17
RE: Time for a new International Nuclear Event Scale?
Points taken.
Now before i delve into the links you provided here to educate myself on the mess, there is just one more thing on the OT branch that has evolved here Wink

About the brain hemispheres.

Quote:It should be balanced with the left brain at all times.

Yes, however that does not mean that the ratio has to be static and both halves at 50% at all times.
You can walk in perfect balance, shifting body weight back and forth to each foot. That is why we have two feet, and two brain hemispheres Icon_biggrin

Ok back into harsh reality...sigh...thanks for the links, appreciate them!
"If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you."
- The Gospel of Thomas

I think I am, therefore I am, i think...
- George Carlin
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03-21-2011, 03:09 AM, (This post was last modified: 03-21-2011, 03:14 AM by Telecaster72.)
#18
RE: Time for a new International Nuclear Event Scale?
Ok, i took the plunge and looked around and....damn....

Nice move to raise the safe levels of radiation, unbelievable.

I dont remember where i read it but they have to manage cooling down for "several weeks" before the fuel has reached less critical temperatures.

Radiation in japanese tapwater
Quote:The science ministry said Saturday a minuscule amount of radioactive substances was detected in tap water in Tokyo, as well as Tochigi, Gunma, Chiba and Saitama prefectures.
It is believed the water carried traces of radioactive iodine. Meanwhile, traces of radioactive cesium were also found in tap water in Tochigi and Gunma

The article doen't state what kind of Iodine or Cesium, but the one used in nuclear applications seems to be Iodine-131 that has a half-life of a measly 8 days as compared to 30 years in Cesium-137.



I have looked for alternative japanese news sources, but came up short, would have been easier if i read japanese though..


"If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you."
- The Gospel of Thomas

I think I am, therefore I am, i think...
- George Carlin
Reply
03-21-2011, 06:33 AM, (This post was last modified: 03-21-2011, 06:42 AM by hubbabubba.)
#19
RE: Time for a new International Nuclear Event Scale?
(03-21-2011, 12:45 AM)Telecaster72 Wrote: You can walk in perfect balance, shifting body weight back and forth to each foot. That is why we have two feet, and two brain hemispheres Icon_biggrin

That's what's called reason or reasonable?


(03-21-2011, 03:09 AM)Telecaster72 Wrote: Nice move to raise the safe levels of radiation, unbelievable.

Where, what, why?

Quote:I dont remember where i read it but they have to manage cooling down for "several weeks" before the fuel has reached less critical temperatures.

Guess there's lots of "small" problems to consider in the future. Hrrmm... Ooops...

Quote:The article doen't state what kind of Iodine or Cesium, but the one used in nuclear applications seems to be Iodine-131 that has a half-life of a measly 8 days as compared to 30 years in Cesium-137.

If it is because of the accident, I wonder how it reached the tapwater so soon?

Nice to have a research partner! Welcome to the team! Smile Wink

Edit:

This is a source I completely forgot:IAEA
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03-21-2011, 12:58 PM, (This post was last modified: 03-21-2011, 02:16 PM by Telecaster72.)
#20
RE: Time for a new International Nuclear Event Scale?
Hubba, It was the safe lefel for workers inside the plants that was raised from 100 to 250 microsieverts (or milli) for them to be able to enter the site.

To visualize what i mean about balance:

dynamic balance:
[Image: 29opxrm.jpg]

static balance:
[Image: 2vaghlj.jpg]

--------------------------------------------------
Even our good old friend WHO warns of radiated food:
reuters
Quote:"From reports I have heard so far, it seems that the levels of radioactive iodine and caesium in milk and some foodstuffs are significantly higher than government limits," said Jim Smith, a specialist in earth and environmental sciences at Britain's Portsmouth University.

IAEA also concerned over food situation
Quote:Measurements at a location about 46 km from the plant showed iodine 131 levels in milk up to 15 times above the level suitable for infants, he said. For spinach, detected levels were also many times above the limit.



How did it enter the tapwater? Usually water to be purified resides in open pools during the process like this one:
[Image: 123674-004-0E5EF040.jpg]
"If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you."
- The Gospel of Thomas

I think I am, therefore I am, i think...
- George Carlin
Reply
03-21-2011, 02:14 PM, (This post was last modified: 03-21-2011, 07:19 PM by Telecaster72.)
#21
RE: Time for a new International Nuclear Event Scale?
Kyodo News has regular updates on the progress (or lack of). They are a non profit news agency so hopefully they are out of the claws of corporate control. But hey, who knows?Kyodo News on Wikipedia

(whole article) --> Japanese government raises standard for decontamination, and urges poulation to not take iodine supplements.
Quote:Meanwhile, the government's task force to tackle nuclear accidents instructed municipal governments near the crisis-hit Fukushima plant on Monday to ease conditions under which they require people to undergo mandatory decontamination.

A radiation level of 100,000 counts per minute will be introduced as a new standard for decontamination, up from 6,000 counts per minute, the government said, adding that raising the bar will not endanger health.

The government's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said the decision was made based on advice from domestic nuclear experts and the International Atomic Energy Agency.

As the number of people who want to undergo radiation checks has surged, a lack of staff and equipment for the tests and decontamination was feared.

The task force also urged the municipalities to tell residents not to take iodine preparations that prevent the absorption of radioactive iodine without expert guidance.


(whole article) -->greater levels of radioactive levels found due to rain
Quote:Far greater amounts of radioactive iodine and cesium were found in rain, dust and particles in the air in some areas over a 24-hour period from Sunday morning due to rainfall, the science ministry said Monday.
...snip....
In a notice to the nation's 47 prefectures, the health ministry called on local governments on Monday to advise residents to stop giving babies water in forms such as baby formula if radioactive iodine is found in drinking water at levels greater than 100 becquerels per kiloliter.

''Babies can easily absorb radioactive iodine in their thyroid glands,'' a ministry official said, explaining the reason for issuing the notice.






"If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you."
- The Gospel of Thomas

I think I am, therefore I am, i think...
- George Carlin
Reply
03-21-2011, 05:06 PM, (This post was last modified: 03-21-2011, 05:08 PM by hubbabubba.)
#22
RE: Time for a new International Nuclear Event Scale?
(03-21-2011, 12:58 PM)Telecaster72 Wrote: Hubba, It was the safe lefel for workers inside the plants that was raised from 100 to 250 microsieverts (or milli) for them to be able to enter the site.

Easy fix.

Quote:To visualize what i mean about balance:

Yes, that sounds reasonable. I guess the right side is more about imagination than feelings. The feelings reside in the mammal brain. Or so they say...

Quote:Even our good old friend WHO warns of radiated food:

Many different opinions it seems.

Quote:How did it enter the tapwater? Usually water to be purified resides in open pools during the process like this one:

That was fast.

Now there's smoke in number three, no it died, now there's smoke in number two, nobody knows why and the american atomic something says everything is under control?!?!

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03-21-2011, 06:06 PM, (This post was last modified: 03-21-2011, 07:00 PM by Telecaster72.)
#23
RE: Time for a new International Nuclear Event Scale?
Quote:That was fast.
I am only guessing, i would think processed water could come in contact with airborne radiation and fallout on numbers of occations, different pools inside and outside the facility, without being very knowlegeable in the area i can say it is not a hermetically sealed process.
The water to be cleaned also comes from somewhere that has exposure, like lakes, reservoirs, rivers and such. Tokyo is not supplied by well-water thats for sure.

Quote:Now there's smoke in number three, no it died, now there's smoke in number two, nobody knows why and the american atomic something says everything is under control?!?!

See my earlier post:
Quote:l: data overload.processing power insufficient.more data needed. data overload.processing power insufficient.more data needed :ll (rinse and repeat)
Icon_biggrin
edit: Need to add "conflicting data input" and "accurate data needed" to that error message.
"If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you."
- The Gospel of Thomas

I think I am, therefore I am, i think...
- George Carlin
Reply
03-22-2011, 05:13 PM,
#24
RE: Time for a new International Nuclear Event Scale?
URGENT: Radiation 1,600 times normal level 20 km from Fukushima plant: IAEA - Kyodo News

So, how dangerous is this? Can't find any info on IAEA's site.

I think this would be a 7 on the Ines scale. i.e. Major Accident. And as the thread implies this is possibly a new 8.

If the Ines rating is downplayed not to create panic, what good is a rating scale then? If it always takes months to admit that the accident was bigger then the last biggest event, doesn't that make the scale more of a problem than a solution?
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03-22-2011, 08:30 PM, (This post was last modified: 03-22-2011, 09:13 PM by springhawk.)
#25
RE: Time for a new International Nuclear Event Scale?
(03-22-2011, 05:13 PM)hubbabubba Wrote: URGENT: Radiation 1,600 times normal level 20 km from Fukushima plant: IAEA - Kyodo News

So, how dangerous is this? Can't find any info on IAEA's site.

I think this would be a 7 on the Ines scale. i.e. Major Accident. And as the thread implies this is possibly a new 8.

If the Ines rating is downplayed not to create panic, what good is a rating scale then? If it always takes months to admit that the accident was bigger then the last biggest event, doesn't that make the scale more of a problem than a solution?

Still no need to create a classification for this
event. The INES seems to know what they
are doing.

Furthermore, there were two EXPLOSIONS and a
MELTDOWN at Chernobyl.

[EDIT Added missing link]


My Psychiatrist Committed Suicide

"I'm going to tell you something you won't believe."
David Vincent
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04-01-2011, 08:47 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-01-2011, 08:48 PM by hubbabubba.)
#26
RE: Time for a new International Nuclear Event Scale?
I haven't updated this thread as planned. I guess most following the news have noticed that this Major Accident is far from over. To me it's quite clear it's at least Ines 7.

I have no links right now but:

There might be a total meltdown in reactor nr 2. Possibly in some of the others also.

The evacuation zone is expanding.

Higher and higher fallout readings are coming farther and farther away from the accident site.

Very high radiation is measured in the ocean.

It is going to take months to control the accident site, if ever totally.

Raising the levels of safe exposure in nature, water and food will never be the solution to nuclear accidents.
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04-02-2011, 04:41 AM,
#27
RE: Time for a new International Nuclear Event Scale?
We're all fucked by this... big time. It makes me want to kill the talking heads that poo-poo the dangers.
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04-12-2011, 06:06 PM,
#28
RE: Time for a new International Nuclear Event Scale?
Japan ups Fukushima nuke crisis severity to 7, same as Chernobyl

So now it's Ines 7, and sometime in the future it will be a 8 or a completely new scale. I'm not happy about being right, but as I said, you don't have to be a nuclear scientist to figure this one out.
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05-13-2011, 03:26 AM,
#29
RE: Time for a new International Nuclear Event Scale?
No.1 reactor is in a "meltdown" state

Quote:Tokyo Electric Power Company says the No.1 reactor at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant is believed to be in a state of "meltdown".

The utility company said on Thursday that most of the fuel rods are likely to have melted and fallen to the bottom of the reactor. Earlier in the day, it found that the coolant water in the reactor is at a level which would completely expose nuclear fuel rods if they were in their normal position.

The company believes the melted fuel has cooled down, judging from the reactor's surface temperature.

But it suspects the meltdown created a hole or holes in the bottom of the reactor causing water to leak into the containment vessel.

It also suspects the water is leaking into the reactor building.

The company is planning to fully fill the containment vessel with water by increasing the amount injected.

The company says, however, it must review the plan in light of the latest finding.
Friday, May 13, 2011 05:21 +0900 (JST)
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01-02-2012, 11:50 PM,
#30
RE: Time for a new International Nuclear Event Scale?
Haven't heard much lately. James Corbett has a new site :Fukushimaupdate.

I don't know how bad it is today, guess it fell into the memory hole. Anyone know anything?
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