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chemtrail spraying altitude gradually getting lower ?
04-29-2009, 03:52 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-29-2009, 03:56 PM by rsol.)
#31
chemtrail spraying altitude gradually getting lower ?
Quote:The worse was BASF in Lowland, been closed about over 20 years and now being torn down. Great Lakes Chemical about 10 years in another county. That was about the extent of chemical corporations. They did have a huge effect on employees that worked there.


I would like a bit more information on this if you can. As you imagine, as far as anecdotal evidence is concerned, I would be inclined to look into this. Local poisoning is an easy one. you just need a few dodgy chemicals running around the local area.... Please do not dismiss this as a possibility, belief not withstanding.

To those interested in combat please.........we dont get anywhere with bitching. Im no mod so i cant tell you guys what to do. but i can sense some hostility and arrogance in these threads from many parties. Already we have lost one topic due to bickering. I blame myself partially for it but im not prepared to continue either. lets be grownups...
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04-30-2009, 05:03 AM,
#32
chemtrail spraying altitude gradually getting lower ?
Both were several miles away, closest one about a hard 30 minute drive. GLC got caught dumping toxic materials about 20 years ago. Oddly enough though, workers suffered no damage. They were heavily fined and got their act straight after they were caught. The barrels were burried in several locations in 3 counties, dug up and contained, area cleansed.

BASF, once labeled Enka was about 45 minutes from here. In the 60s and early 70s, on a morning with heavy humidity, it smelled like rotten eggs in the air, even way over here. People that worked there experienced cancer, not all but many. My mom worked there for about 24-28 years, no health effects.

It has been so long that neither are there except for skeltons and all was properly disposed of. Both had their own water they filtered and recycled. Way too long for lasting effects.
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04-30-2009, 03:22 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-30-2009, 03:46 PM by JazzRoc.)
#33
chemtrail spraying altitude gradually getting lower ?
CTRL: "Why do you keep bleating off about contrails JR? Nobody denies contrails, and I don't think anybody really needs a lesson in their formation either."

ALL claimed "chemtrails" are contrails. Claimants believe they understand what they see, when they don't - at all. And that is why they need a lesson - in manners. No scientist would shoot his mouth off about a subject he was ignorant of. Well-mannered lay people don't, either. Chemmies, on the other hand, are scientifically-illiterate AND shoot their mouths off.

JazzRoc versus Chemtrails 'Science on Tra Wrote:USAF - "Contrails can remain visible for VERY LONG PERIODS OF TIME with the lifetime a function of the temperature, humidity, winds, and aircraft exhaust characteristics."
WIKI - "Observation and scientific analysis of contrails, and their duration, date back to at least 1953. Depending on atmospheric conditions, contrails may be visible for only a few seconds or minutes, or may persist FOR MANY HOURS.."
EPA - Contrails can last FOR HOURS and GROW IN SIZE by taking water from the surrounding atmosphere. The trails spread due to "air turbulence created by the passage of other aircraft, differences in wind speed along the flight track, and possibly through effects of solar heating" - CSI (started by Carl Sagan and Isaac Asimov)
John Day, meteorologist - "Contrail formation, depends on the relative humidity of the atmosphere - the ratio of what is to what could be at a particular temperature. When relative humidity is low, contrails dissipate within seconds. But when relative humidity is high, especially at the subzero temperatures of the upper atmosphere, the addition of even a tiny amount of water vapor acts as a catalyst. Under these conditions, CONTRAILS MAY LINGER AND SPREAD, TO COVER THE WHOLE SKY." At length, Day extracted from his bookshelf a well-thumbed edition of Peterson's Field Guide to Clouds and Weather, which he co-authored in 1991 (a good 10 years before chemtrails became widely discussed), turned to the section on contrails, and pointed to a photograph of a thick, white plume 'a plume that looked for all the world like a chemtrail'"
http://wweek.com/flatfiles/News1982.html
Patrick Minnis of NASA's Langley Research Center *- "If you try to pin these people down and refute things, it's, 'Well, you're just part of the conspiracy'. Logic is not exactly a real selling point for most of them. The cloud-forming contrails that conspiracy theorists find so ominous are PERFECTLY NATURAL."
http://usatoday.com/usatonline/20010307/3117139s.htm
* Dr. Minnis's career is outlined in "Penrod" http://jazzroc.wordpress.com/2008/10/27/26-penrod
NMSR Reports, Vol. 5, No. 12, December 1999 - "In summary, there is NO EVIDENCE that these "chemtrails" are other than expected, normal contrails from jet aircraft that vary in their shapes, duration, and general presentation based on prevailing weather conditions. That is not to say that there could not be an occasional, purposeful experimental release of, say, high altitude barium for standard wind tracking experiments. There could also be other related experiments that occur from time-to-time which release agents into the atmosphere. However, NOT ONE SINGLE PICTURE that was presented as evidence indicates other than normal contrail formation."

MasterMG: "I didn't know it was debunked, you could have at least posted it."

If I did that with "chemtrails" the site couldn't afford the bandwidth. THAT is why you see http://jazzroc.wordpress.com in my signature! But here is an appropriate debunk of this.

http://contrailscience.com/barium-chemtrails/

Actually, "debunk" is an understatement. NOTHING in that video is correct IN ANY WAY.

Nothing EVER CLAIMED by ANY "chemtrailer" has been proved true, in the ten years since the word "chemtrail" was coined.

NOTHING AT ALL.
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04-30-2009, 09:17 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-30-2009, 09:25 PM by icosaface.)
#34
chemtrail spraying altitude gradually getting lower ?
You shoot your mouth off all the time JR and being a scientist does not mean you are honest or ethical or anything other than a bought and paid for useful idiot. Chemtrails have not been disproved because no evidence has been gathered by the agencies that should have investigated the escalating number of chemtrail complaints but don't. They don't investigate because, as their propagandists are paid to say, there is nothing to investigate. The chemtrail cover up crews claim that all our observations, evidence gathering and analysis, regardless of how meticulously documented, is irrelevant because their agencies didn't do it. Their agencies won't gather evidence and refuse to test evidence that we have gathered. They have no shortage of hot off the press propagandists to spew drivel at us to the tune of "you can't prove it , cause only we can and we won't, therefore you are wrong".

[Image: El%20Rio%20stone%20water%20channel1.jpg]
An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it.
Mohandas Gandhi


Each of us is put here in this time and this place to personally decide the future of humankind.
Did you think you were put here for something less?
Chief Arvol Looking Horse
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05-01-2009, 02:18 AM,
#35
chemtrail spraying altitude gradually getting lower ?
JR, the fact of the matter is that they are man-made and can possibly be a threat either to humans or contribute to greenhouse gases (if you believe so) or otherwise.
[Image: Palestinian_Dawn_by_Palestinian_Pride.jpg]
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05-01-2009, 07:56 PM,
#36
chemtrail spraying altitude gradually getting lower ?
I think most of us can agree they are not healthy, especially since we have this increase in air travel. Intentional or not.
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05-02-2009, 01:53 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-02-2009, 01:55 AM by JazzRoc.)
#37
chemtrail spraying altitude gradually getting lower ?
Quote:You shoot your mouth off all the time JR and being a scientist does not mean you are honest or ethical or anything other than a bought and paid for useful idiot.
Being a scientist I know the requirement for an unusual claim: unusual evidence. That is what logic requires.
If I'm an idiot, then you are comatose.

Quote:Chemtrails have not been disproved because no evidence has been gathered by the agencies that should have investigated the escalating number of chemtrail complaints but don't.
You cannot gather evidence which is non-existent. The KLSA "evidence" (spits) was of dirty rainwater WELL within EPA guidelines. What "evidence" is THAT?

Quote:They don't investigate because, as their propagandists are paid to say, there is nothing to investigate.
If you were NOT comatose, you would SEE "there is nothing to investigate"

Quote:The chemtrail cover up crews claim that all our observations, evidence gathering and analysis, regardless of how meticulously documented, is irrelevant because their agencies didn't do it.
Your "observations", "evidence-gathering" and "analysis" have been (and I suspect always will be) cretinously ignorant and ill-informed. I have been through the nature of the atmosphere (the misunderstanding of which condemns you eternally to misinterpretation) on this site and my blog site (in my signature) ad nauseam and to no avail.
It's as if I were trying to convince a pack of chimpanzees.

Quote:Their agencies won't gather evidence and refuse to test evidence that we have gathered.
What agencies are these? Please don't go on about "your evidence". My experience of "your evidence" leads me to face in the OPPOSITE direction to your pointed finger.

Quote:They have no shortage of hot off the press propagandists to spew drivel at us to the tune of "you can't prove it, cause only we can and we won't, therefore you are wrong".
NO. You cannot prove it because IT DOESN'T EXIST. TRAILS ARE ICE. ALL OF THEM.

When they form they are seven miles up in a stratosphere which averages 60 mph.

[rantmode]THE ICE NEVER FALLS BELOW THE TROPOPAUSE BEFORE IT IS REABSORBED.

BY THE TIME IT GETS THAT FAR IT WILL BE 120 MILES AWAY FROM YOU, AND IT WILL BE TWO HOURS LATER.

A JUMBO FLIGHT OF 3000 MILES CAN (TEMPORARILY) RENDER VISIBLE EIGHTY THOUSAND TONS OF ICE.

THAT'S ENOUGH FOR EVEN A DRIVELLING COMATOSE CHIMPANZEE TO SPOT.

IF THE GOV'T WISHED TO TERMINATE "USELESS EATERS" (SURELY THEY MUST BE "CHEMTRAILERS"?) THEY COULD INJECT YOUR WATER SUPPLY.

IF THEY DIDN'T KNOW HOW, I WOULD EXPLAIN IT TO THEM.
[/rantmode]
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05-02-2009, 02:02 AM,
#38
chemtrail spraying altitude gradually getting lower ?
LoL
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05-02-2009, 02:13 AM,
#39
chemtrail spraying altitude gradually getting lower ?
Quote:LoL
Perhaps a little far?:)
Reply
05-02-2009, 02:24 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-02-2009, 02:38 AM by JazzRoc.)
#40
chemtrail spraying altitude gradually getting lower ?
Quote:JR, the fact of the matter is that they are man-made and can possibly be a threat either to humans or contribute to greenhouse gases (if you believe so) or otherwise.
MMG, adding each day a couple of million tons of H2O and CO2 to the atmosphere REALLY makes 0.0000000005% of a difference.

Quite frankly if it would take 200,000 years to DOUBLE our atmosphere (by continuing at the same rate as today's) then I don't really feel the need to get worked up about it, especially as

a) The environment will have absorbed it all in a tenth of that time, and

B)We'll have run out of fossil fuel in 50 years.*

The only thing that's worrying is the tendency for the liberated traces of NOX and SOX to migrate to the polar stratospheres where they destroy ozone for a few weeks before dropping out.

But ONE good volcanic eruption - and maybe ALL bets would be off....

*Bio-engineered fuel will be a safe, renewable, sulfur-free, EXPENSIVE replacement.

ThatB)catches me out every time!:)
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05-02-2009, 02:28 AM,
#41
chemtrail spraying altitude gradually getting lower ?
Quote:
Quote:LoL
Perhaps a little far?:)

read: *chuckle*:)
Reply
05-02-2009, 03:38 AM,
#42
chemtrail spraying altitude gradually getting lower ?
Surely you don't buy into the peak oil thing?
Reply
05-02-2009, 10:27 PM,
#43
chemtrail spraying altitude gradually getting lower ?
Quote:
Quote:You shoot your mouth off all the time JR and being a scientist does not mean you are honest or ethical or anything other than a bought and paid for useful idiot.
Being a scientist I know the requirement for an unusual claim: unusual evidence. That is what logic requires.
If I'm an idiot, then you are comatose.

Quote:Chemtrails have not been disproved because no evidence has been gathered by the agencies that should have investigated the escalating number of chemtrail complaints but don't.
You cannot gather evidence which is non-existent. The KLSA "evidence" (spits) was of dirty rainwater WELL within EPA guidelines. What "evidence" is THAT?

Quote:They don't investigate because, as their propagandists are paid to say, there is nothing to investigate.
If you were NOT comatose, you would SEE "there is nothing to investigate"

Quote:The chemtrail cover up crews claim that all our observations, evidence gathering and analysis, regardless of how meticulously documented, is irrelevant because their agencies didn't do it.
Your "observations", "evidence-gathering" and "analysis" have been (and I suspect always will be) cretinously ignorant and ill-informed. I have been through the nature of the atmosphere (the misunderstanding of which condemns you eternally to misinterpretation) on this site and my blog site (in my signature) ad nauseam and to no avail.
It's as if I were trying to convince a pack of chimpanzees.

Quote:Their agencies won't gather evidence and refuse to test evidence that we have gathered.
What agencies are these? Please don't go on about "your evidence". My experience of "your evidence" leads me to face in the OPPOSITE direction to your pointed finger.

Quote:They have no shortage of hot off the press propagandists to spew drivel at us to the tune of "you can't prove it, cause only we can and we won't, therefore you are wrong".
NO. You cannot prove it because IT DOESN'T EXIST. TRAILS ARE ICE. ALL OF THEM.

When they form they are seven miles up in a stratosphere which averages 60 mph.

[rantmode]THE ICE NEVER FALLS BELOW THE TROPOPAUSE BEFORE IT IS REABSORBED.

BY THE TIME IT GETS THAT FAR IT WILL BE 120 MILES AWAY FROM YOU, AND IT WILL BE TWO HOURS LATER.

A JUMBO FLIGHT OF 3000 MILES CAN (TEMPORARILY) RENDER VISIBLE EIGHTY THOUSAND TONS OF ICE.

THAT'S ENOUGH FOR EVEN A DRIVELLING COMATOSE CHIMPANZEE TO SPOT.

IF THE GOV'T WISHED TO TERMINATE "USELESS EATERS" (SURELY THEY MUST BE "CHEMTRAILERS"?) THEY COULD INJECT YOUR WATER SUPPLY.

IF THEY DIDN'T KNOW HOW, I WOULD EXPLAIN IT TO THEM.
[/rantmode]

The scientific method plays no part in any of your posts that I have seen.

You dismiss historical eyewitness evidence that there weren't any contrails that magically morphed into chemtrails prior to the late 1990's. Now we have contrails that look and behave like contrails always have and we have the spewed plumes which spread all over the sky which you would have us believe to be contrails as well.

Looks like I'm going to have to go over the evidence again lest someone think that your authoritative bleating is factual.

I have to go to work though so it will take time to present the known facts again. Lets get a going.

This is a short video by Bill Abram.

The following is a report from the holmestead site.
[Image: farmfield.jpg]

Early November 2004: This is the farm field at the Holmestead - it is only twenty-five acres but yields a good crop. This season it was soybeans and they had just come off and the field had been harrowed when this photograph was taken.

As part of the normal farming routine there have been soil tests carried out to determine if there should be any corrective measures taken to adjust the soil conditions.

This field, along with nine others in the immediate area were tested and I have the results on hand - laboratory reports #C04275-015 and 016.

From a telephone conversation with one of the agronomists at the laboratory (A & L Canada Laboratories East, Inc.) I learned that soil testing that included aluminum testing was a relatively new addition to the standard agricultural tests - just over the last few years. He also maintained that the level of aluminum found in this particular series of tests was "not unusual".

This same agronomist seemed unable to give a simple, direct answer to my question of what is considered to be the traditional historical background level of naturally occurring aluminum in agricultural soils although one page on the web site of his laboratory had the following statement along with an illustration with specific figures: "Aluminum greater than 400 ppm is a problem for most growing plants. The primary target for aluminum is the root cap. Therefore, it has a major impact on root growth and efficiency."

The aluminum reading that had been reported in our ten local soil tests ranged from a high of 1692 ppm (parts per million) to a low of 712 ppm - and that lowest one happened to be the Holmestead field. The average of all ten fields was 1247 ppm which is in the "Very High" range of the above published Aluminum Rating.

Our interest in the level of aluminum is related to the fact that there have been numerous reports of various aluminum compounds being found in the "chemtrails" that are being constantly sprayed.

Geo-engineering

Rosalie Bertell

Just came across this



An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it.
Mohandas Gandhi


Each of us is put here in this time and this place to personally decide the future of humankind.
Did you think you were put here for something less?
Chief Arvol Looking Horse
Reply
05-02-2009, 10:42 PM,
#44
chemtrail spraying altitude gradually getting lower ?
yep, round two has begun.

:popcorn:
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05-03-2009, 12:03 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-03-2009, 12:34 AM by JazzRoc.)
#45
chemtrail spraying altitude gradually getting lower ?
Quote:The scientific method plays no part in any of your posts that I have seen.
My posts frequently quote scientific papers. My blog CERTAINLY does. I recommend facing towards the screen: such reports are more easily seen that way.

Quote:You dismiss historical eyewitness evidence that there weren't any contrails that magically morphed into chemtrails prior to the late 1990's.
[Image: m51.jpg]

Click to read the fine detail. Next?

Quote:Now we have contrails that look and behave like contrails always have and we have the spewed plumes which spread all over the sky which you would have us believe to be contrails as well.
I have quoted this before - I shall again...

From the paper "Contrails to Cirrus - Morphology, Microphysics, and Radiative Properties", by
DAVID ATLAS - Laboratory for Atmospheres, NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Maryland
ZHIEN WANG - Goddard Earth Science and Technology Center, University of Maryland, Baltimore County, Baltimore, and NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Maryland
DAVID P. DUDA National Institute of Aerospace, NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, Virginia
(Published 30 June 2005):

http://www-pm.larc.nasa.gov/sass/pub/journ...as_JAMC2006.pdf

The average ice water per meter along the length of the contrail is 16 Kilograms per meter, some three to four orders of magnitude greater (that means a thousand times to ten thousand times greater) than the water vapor released by typical jet aircraft, also similar to previously reported values. The net effect of the water and particles released by the aircraft results in a major inadvertent modification of the atmosphere under appropriate ambient conditions. Furthermore, the evaporation of the fallstreaks at lower levels indicates the downward transfer of moisture from the upper levels where the (ice) crystals have grown.

That means a SINGLE 3000 mile jumbo flight (THROUGH SATURATED AIR) would create 80,000 tons of contrail ice.

This was done, I think, using LIDAR from the NOAA satellite. Perhaps the finest equipment ever made, operated by the most talented scientists...

Quote:Looks like I'm going to have to go over the evidence again lest someone think that your authoritative bleating is factual.
To do something AGAIN you have to have done it PREVIOUSLY. In this case you obviously haven't.

Quote:This is a short video by Bill Abram.
And it's gibberish, through and through. They hadn't noticed persistent trails until they read some chemtrail trash. Hell, I'm their age - I too have been a teacher - and I first saw a persistent trail for what it was in 1955...

Quote:This field, along with nine others in the immediate area were tested and I have the results on hand - laboratory reports #C04275-015 and 016. From a telephone conversation with one of the agronomists at the laboratory (A & L Canada Laboratories East, Inc.) I learned that soil testing that included aluminum testing was a relatively new addition to the standard agricultural tests - just over the last few years. He also maintained that the level of aluminum found in this particular series of tests was "not unusual".
Quite correctly so.

Quote:This same agronomist seemed unable to give a simple, direct answer to my question of what is considered to be the traditional historical background level of naturally occurring aluminum in agricultural soils although one page on the web site of his laboratory had the following statement along with an illustration with specific figures: "Aluminum greater than 400 ppm is a problem for most growing plants. The primary target for aluminum is the root cap. Therefore, it has a major impact on root growth and efficiency."
That is considering SOLUBLE aluminum salts. You have been comparing WOMBATS with DIDGERIDOOS.

Any respectable scientist would find it difficult to communicate with a lay person, for he cannot know the extent of his comprehension.

Quote:The aluminum reading that had been reported in our ten local soil tests ranged from a high of 1692 ppm (parts per million) to a low of 712 ppm - and that lowest one happened to be the Holmestead field. The average of all ten fields was 1247 ppm which is in the "Very High" range of the above published Aluminum Rating.
There is CLAY in your soil. From Tiscali:

"Kaolinite Al2Si2O5(OH)4 is a common white clay mineral derived from alteration of aluminium silicates, especially feldspars. Illite contains the same constituents as kaolinite, plus potassium, and is the main mineral of clay sediments, mudstones, and shales; it is a weathering product of feldspars and other silicates. Montmorillonite contains the constituents of kaolinite plus sodium and magnesium; along with related magnesium- and iron-bearing clay minerals, it is derived from alteration and weathering of mafic igneous rocks. Kaolinite (the mineral name for kaolin or china clay) is economically important in the ceramic and paper industries. Illite, along with other clay minerals, may also be used in ceramics."

So, if your land were PURE KAOLINITE CLAY, it would contain 209,000 parts per million of aluminum. As its maximum has 1692 parts per million, you should be able to see that your soil comprises 0.8% CLAY - which ain't much at all. My Potters Lane garden was at least 40% clay, and required much composting and nitrogen-fixing to turn it into a black loam...

Your clay is unlikely to be kaolinite exactly. There are many forms of clay. They are harmless because they are INSOLUBLE in water. You should know this. If you wanted to stress your plants, simply tip a carboy of sulfuric acid over your field. There would be a lot of fizzing and then your field would be as dangerous as your DELUSION assumes it is, for the aluminum would then be a soluble aluminum salt, would be ingested by the plants and KILL them. But if you do NOTHING - you'll be quite fine...

Quote:Our interest in the level of aluminum is related to the fact that there have been numerous reports of various aluminum compounds being found in the "chemtrails" that are being constantly sprayed.
What, do you mean the KSLA CRAP? Or other crap?

Quote:Geo-engineering - Rosalie Bertell - Just came across this
Journalist Speculation - Insane speculation - Committable speculation.

For God's sake, please learn to comprehend some SCIENCE!:(
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