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The Danger From Above, Chemtrails
05-15-2011, 02:06 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-15-2011, 02:14 PM by JazzRoc.)
RE: The Danger From Above, Chemtrails
(05-15-2011, 01:41 PM)MGoku Wrote: I thought i would share this link below for those that may be interested... "The chemtrail agenda exposed! Watch What in the World are They Spraying Complete version!" I find it interesting that most of the senators and representatives in part 7 seem like running or playing dumb.
I'm interested in any LIES and DISINFORMATION you have to offer.
"What in the world are they spraying" is fully debunked HERE.


(05-15-2011, 02:03 PM)MGoku Wrote: Not all "white-outs" occur as a consequence of aviation. They are also a NATURAL phenomenon.

Can you explain further please?

Quote:I have noticed for 2 days as i travel by car from one city to another to work that there are clear skies with nice blue skies and clouds. But then the day after it went to man made geo engineering sky?
Prove that.

Sorry i forgot but next time i will send flowers with my "prove"[b] Sleepy


Quote:Has any one got a clue if there is a reason behind it?
Chemtrails are a MYTH.
Quote:The reason behind them is that people fear the unknown. The "unknown", in this case, is THE WORLD ABOUT THEM. Their education system has failed them, they are uninformed, and generally incapable of educating themselves, thinking that YouTube will inform them, which is generally the reverse of the truth[/color][quote]

Fair enough JayZ i wrote another post with a link go to Part 7 of the videos and tell me are those people Un-educated? and Uninformed?


[quote]Go suck an egg. Then BLOW...

i dont suck eggs, i eat them in breakfast! I then get blown but i dont blow not my thang if ya know what i meanz
You'll have to wait while I take a picnic 6,000 feet up a volcano. Smile

Reply
05-15-2011, 02:15 PM,
RE: The Danger From Above, Chemtrails
MGoku you are wasting your time with Jazzy, He's like a broken record saying the same things over and over again.
The guy has to much time on his hands. Sorry Jazzy but have wasted enough time on you.
Reply
05-15-2011, 02:22 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-15-2011, 02:31 PM by MGoku.)
RE: The Danger From Above, Chemtrails

(05-15-2011, 02:15 PM)Defendfreedom Wrote: MGoku you are wasting your time with Jazzy, He's like a broken record saying the same things over and over again.
The guy has to much time on his hands. Sorry Jazzy but have wasted enough time on you.

Lol thanks for the heads up bud! ive realised that awhile ago when i was reading an article somewhere around concen and it kinda got annoying reading only one side of the forum JayZ rapping and some one else tryin to kick sence or make it obvious to him but its all good Eatdrink007


Quote:Go suck an egg. Then BLOW...

i dont suck eggs, i eat them in breakfast! I then get blown but i dont blow not my thang if ya know what i meanz[/quote]
You'll have to wait while I take a picnic 6,000 feet up a volcano. Smile


[/quote]

Sure I am waiting 8'000 feet up though, i hope you dont brake a leg and fall the 6'000 feet Sleepy cuz am waiting for my blow! Smile
Reply
05-15-2011, 08:38 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-15-2011, 08:40 PM by IanPotter.)
RE: The Danger From Above, Chemtrails
No-one spends hour after hour (year after year) waiting for a chemtrail activist to post so they can 'debunk' it solely to stop the poster 'propagating a hoax'. Essentially, JR has zero interest in anything much beyond his fanaticism for debunking chemtrails. It's completely illogical and he probably knows that, but because JR is a fairly high level operator his verbose output takes time to put together, which probably means he's unable to flesh out his character properly like a shill normally would, ie by engaging in a variety of debates, simply on account of the time it takes.

Watch his tactics. It's an education. Often he'll enter a pro-chemtrail thread armed with huge tracts of numbers and graphs that emerge endlessly from the arse of his bought and paid for buddies. Whatever it is, he's got a pile of data to refute it sixteen times. More often than you'd think however, the material is actually only barely relevant, but it gives JR an apparent credibility (in the mind of the third-party reader) and he can rely on the fact that few will actually read anything he posts closely anyway. In other words, his first step, is to establish his credibility.

Once he's dropped this load he'll usually build on this foundation by claiming vast experience of all things remotely to do with the aviation industry, ie bang, bang; he's got it covered and it's can seem overpowering to the poster and the third-party reader.

He's able to do this because he IS well-versed and has a genuine knowledge of which he speaks. The result however (and the intent), is that few feel confident enough to press back after that double whammy.

It gets interesting however, when the unsuspecting poster DOES try to respond, for those who do are almost always met with a totally unexpected and relentlessly childish name-calling retort - often accompanied by a pic of a nerdy type, or a chicken little character etc to spice things up and unleash a flood of endorphins to the poster's head. This really throws some people, ie they thought they were dealing with a real-life Einstein and immediately he turns into a vicious troll. This is by design.

Sometimes he'll couple the extensive 'science' and the name-calling in the same post.

It's all about setting a dissonant state in the mind of the receiver you see?

It's all very predictable and it's all straight out of a psy-op manual.

I could be wrong, but I've been keeping an eye on JR for some time and I've rarely seen him step out of character.

JazzRoc is a shill - and a very skilled one too. If I was his Sugar Daddy, I'd make sure he got whatever he wanted; maybe even a home in the Canaries. If on the other hand he IS what he says he is, I can only assume he's profoundly insane, as am I and everyone else who sees right through him.

Whatever, I'm sure JR will be along with an answer and some choice name-calling later to 'debunk' my paranoid rantings - and if not, then he'll simply bump up an older chemtrail thread or two like he did the other day. He lets the kookier threads lie dormant for precisely this purpose. Again; right out of the play-book.

I could be wrong.
I could be right.
Chemtrails turn the world to shite.
The three grand imperatives of imperial geostrategy are to prevent collusion and maintain security dependence among the vassals, to keep tributaries pliant and protected, and to keep the barbarians from coming together. Zbig the Ruthless.
Reply
05-15-2011, 09:02 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-15-2011, 10:00 PM by JazzRoc.)
RE: The Danger From Above, Chemtrails
(05-15-2011, 01:41 PM)MGoku Wrote: I find it interesting that most of the senators and representatives in part 7 seem like running or playing dumb.
That's because they are dumb. But so are you.

"Dumb" in the sense that you are unaware, both as to (a) the nature of the sky above you, and to (b) what CAN and CANNOT be combusted in a turbofan.

(a) The Nature of the Sky

[Image: Tempaltitude.jpg]

The sky above has four regions, the first two being relevant, because of the huge volume of water vapor "stored" there. You are familiar with the troposphere, which is unstable, hottest at its base, with cumulus clouds "bubbling" from below up to the tropopause, where the temperature never rises above -40 deg C (and sometimes falls to -80 deg C) but you aren't very familiar with the second, the stratosphere, which lies in the region ABOVE the unstable "bubbling" air. Its air is STABLE and LAYERED with regions of differing humidity, coldest at its base and getting warmer with altitude. This region is humidified by "quasi-biennial oscillation" at atmospheric cell boundaries, and topped up by a fraction of a per cent by the aviation industry which is doing its level best to stick around 450,000,000 tons of fuel combustion water up there each year. That sounds like a lot, but compared with the total water contained by the stratosphere it is TOTALLY INSIGNIFICANT, so much so that 40 years of airline expansion is possible before the effects of all those contrails become significant.

(b) What CAN and CANNOT be combusted in a Turbofan

[Image: combustion.gif]

Simply put, ANY LIQUID HYDROCARBON can pass through and be combusted. This is normally decane (the chemical name), also called kerosine, or JP-8, but it could be butane, or any other hydrocarbon liquid that could pass through the fuel filters, valves, and spray orifices. JP-8's claim to fame is to be able to withstand temperatures as low as -80 deg C without freezing, for reasons given above.
With adjustment to the throttle valves and pump pressure, MORGELLONS (if it existed) would also make an EXCELLENT fuel. All carbohydrates and hydrocarbons would cheerfully combust, for the TURBOFAN COMBUSTION TEMPERATURE IS 2,500 DEGREES CENTIGRADE.

[Image: 300px-Turbofan3_Labelled.gif]
Animation of a 2-spool, high-bypass turbofan
A. Low pressure spool
B. High pressure spool
C. Stationary components
1. Nacelle
2. Fan
3. Low pressure compressor
4. High pressure compressor
5. Combustion chamber
6. High pressure turbine
7. Low pressure turbine
8. Core nozzle
9. Fan nozzle


What CANNOT be combusted are METALS. At the above temperature, metals OXIDIZE to a SLAG, or FLUX, which coats and erodes the combustion chambers and all the exhaust turbine blades which follow them, limiting the motor's life to a few minutes at the most. Aluminum would oxidize to ALUMINA, one of the hardest and most abrasive materials known, and barium oxide would be a useful fluxing agent. The result would be similar to the effects of volcanic ash.
What ALSO cannot be combusted are PARTICULATES. These WOULD NEVER BE fine enough to pass through the filters and valves used, and would add unpredictable effects to the aircraft's fuel supply - like STOPPING IT. Tanks would require STIRRERS...

So please do not point at engine exhaust trails claiming them to contain either metals or organic compounds. For the above reasons THAT IS A LIE.

[Image: pinocchio1.gif]
Reply
05-15-2011, 09:55 PM,
RE: The Danger From Above, Chemtrails
I couldn't agree more Ian. I also think that Jazzy is a shill or as you say insane, maybe even both lol
Reply
05-15-2011, 10:22 PM,
RE: The Danger From Above, Chemtrails
Thanks Defendfreedom.

Folks: to take just two sentences almost entirely at random from the (entirely predicted) mix of insult and 'science' JR posted above:

"With adjustment to the throttle valves and pump pressure, MORGELLONS (if it existed) would also make an EXCELLENT fuel. All carbohydrates and hydrocarbons would cheerfully combust, for the TURBOFAN COMBUSTION TEMPERATURE IS 2,500 DEGREES CENTIGRADE."

Two things:

1 See how he confines the debate to particulate being released through the engines? How many of us 'believers' believe that? I don't.

2 He also gets the Morgellons thing in there. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not taking a stance on Morgellons either way BUT, having examined much of the evidence out there it's clear that one needs to examine the evidence if only to understand that it's a very complex topic. Not only that, but the countless written, spoken and visual testimony from sufferers is certainly something that shouldn't be dismissed in a single sentence in my view.

The thing is, JR played the 'kook' card and the 'misrepresentation' card in just two sentences - and the piece overall merges the science/insult double whammy once again.

Many of us here are aware of these techniques, but for those who might stroll in who aren't, I hope this little thread has been informative. Sadly most topics in conspiracy world have people like JR working within, but thankfully, at least with the chemtrails, what JR doesn't understand is that your unconscious noticed the chemtrails before you did - and that's why his 'science' won't make the slightest bit of difference.

Some come to chemtrails because they read a post and wonder what's up. JR influences these people; but you are probably here because you were led by a good heart and that leaves him impotent.

Peace.

PS: You disgust me JR.
The three grand imperatives of imperial geostrategy are to prevent collusion and maintain security dependence among the vassals, to keep tributaries pliant and protected, and to keep the barbarians from coming together. Zbig the Ruthless.
Reply
05-15-2011, 10:42 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-15-2011, 11:44 PM by JazzRoc.)
RE: The Danger From Above, Chemtrails
(05-15-2011, 08:38 PM)IanPotter Wrote: No-one spends hour after hour (year after year) waiting for a chemtrail activist to post so they can 'debunk' it solely to stop the poster 'propagating a hoax'.
That's true. That's the GOOD part of the WWW. You don't have to wait.

Quote:Essentially, JR has zero interest in anything much beyond his fanaticism for debunking chemtrails.
Thanks. A moment here will demonstrate almost ALL of my current interests.

Quote:he's unable to flesh out his character properly like a shill normally would, ie by engaging in a variety of debates, simply on account of the time it takes.
Googling "beachcomber2008 jazzroc" does a pretty good job of turning up my activities. And debunking slanderous liars has its upside.

Quote:his bought and paid for buddies.
A case in point.

Quote:Whatever it is, he's got a pile of data to refute it sixteen times.
Yes. Freely-available SCIENCE, mostly on the WWW.

Quote:More often than you'd think however, the material is actually only barely relevant, but it gives JR an apparent credibility (in the mind of the third-party reader) and he can rely on the fact that few will actually read anything he posts closely anyway. In other words, his first step, is to establish his credibility.
It's always DIRECTLY relevant. And I'm beginning to suspect you know this.

Quote:Once he's dropped this load he'll usually build on this foundation by claiming vast experience of all things remotely to do with the aviation industry, ie bang, bang; he's got it covered and it's can seem overpowering to the poster and the third-party reader.
And so it should be. A co-operative society's strength RELIES on the work of others. It has to TRUST the evidence is TRUE. Conversely, it is weakened by LIES and SLANDERS.

Quote:He's able to do this because he IS well-versed and has a genuine knowledge of which he speaks. The result however (and the intent), is that few feel confident enough to press back after that double whammy.
If you are MADE to LOSE, you should accept the fact (that you are ignorant) and do your best to correct it, by learning to understand fully the argument that has defeated you. You will then EDUCATE YOURSELF. No-one else can do this for you, and if you decide to think the way YOU do, then that is a shame, for it will lead to a further humiliation for you, proportional to your own foolishness. You are arguing with LOGIC and SCIENCE, the full summation of the actions of MILLIONS of people MORE hard-working and MORE intelligent than YOU.

Quote:It gets interesting however, when the unsuspecting poster DOES try to respond, for those who do are almost always met with a totally unexpected and relentlessly childish name-calling retort - often accompanied by a pic of a nerdy type, or a chicken little character etc to spice things up and unleash a flood of endorphins to the poster's head. This really throws some people, ie they thought they were dealing with a real-life Einstein and immediately he turns into a vicious troll. This is by design.
Of course it is. I don't sit here NOT designing what I put down. You might...

Quote:Sometimes he'll couple the extensive 'science' and the name-calling in the same post. It's all about setting a dissonant state in the mind of the receiver you see? It's all very predictable and it's all straight out of a psy-op manual.
I never insult BEFORE I have been insulted. If insults are going to be the order of things, then you'll find me willing and capable. I LIKE hard work...

Quote:I could be wrong
You are NEVER right. You cannot allow yourself to be. Nor can you see where you go wrong.

Quote:but I've been keeping an eye on JR for some time and I've rarely seen him step out of character.
I have a very constant character. I have been married for 43 years, and live close to my children and grandchildren.

Quote:JazzRoc is a shill
In 2007 I had to look up "shill" in the dictionary. I had never met it. It doesn't feature in a science context. That is SLANDER. Well, LIBEL, then. I cannot take action on that and you know it. But you HARM me by your assertion, and I DO take insult. Whether or not I may act, of course, that slander will return to harm you, by your karma.

Quote:I can only assume he's profoundly insane, as am I and everyone else who sees right through him.
We're ALL insane? No. YOU are a liar. LOL

Quote:Whatever, I'm sure JR will be along with an answer and some choice name-calling later to 'debunk' my paranoid rantings - and if not, then he'll simply bump up an older chemtrail thread or two like he did the other day.
I will always bump ANYTHING you studiously avoid reading.

Quote:He lets the kookier threads lie dormant for precisely this purpose. Again; right out of the play-book.
Nope. Straight out of the top of me 'ead, old boy. As it happens.

Quote:I could be wrong.
I could be right.
Chemtrails turn the world to shite.
You're ALWAYS WRONG,
You're NEVER RIGHT.
Your FEAR and IGNORANCE are the SHITE
Which SHITS upon the world.





Finally, may I point out that the subject of this thread is The Danger From Above, Chemtrails and NOT "JazzRoc".

Perhaps you'd be kind enough to ADDRESS MY ARGUMENTS and NOT my person. It's what's known as an ad hominem argument, condemned by the Greek philosophers thousands of years ago as being USELESS in pursuit of TRUTH.
(05-15-2011, 10:22 PM)IanPotter Wrote: mix of insult and 'science'
No insult at all. The "insult" was carried over from its initiator - Mgoku.

Quote:See how he confines the debate to particulate being released through the engines? How many of us 'believers' believe that? I don't.
But MOST do.

What do YOU believe?

Quote:I'm not taking a stance on Morgellons either way BUT, having examined much of the evidence out there it's clear that one needs to examine the evidence if only to understand that it's a very complex topic.
No. It's very simple. The engines are VERY FINE STERILIZERS.

Quote:'kook' card and the 'misrepresentation' card in just two sentences
No. In a single sentence you lied TWICE.

Quote:Many of us here are aware of these techniques, but for those who might stroll in who aren't, I hope this little thread has been informative.
My INFORMATION (science), your DISINFORMATION - ad hominem LIES and SLANDER.

Quote:his 'science' won't make the slightest bit of difference
My "science" belongs to everyone. You'll find it on the web, in schools, libraries, scientific enterprises and research in many languages across the world. And YOU DENY IT.

Quote:Some come to chemtrails because they read a post and wonder what's up. JR influences these people; but you are probably here because you were led by a good heart and that leaves him impotent. Peace. PS: You disgust me JR.
Hey, it's mutual then. Let's not compare degrees of disgust eh?

Why not address the topic The Danger From Above, Chemtrails before some administrator decides to BAN you?

Or you could start by answering my questions...

Reply
05-16-2011, 12:17 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-16-2011, 12:48 AM by JazzRoc.)
RE: The Danger From Above, Chemtrails
Not all "white-outs" occur as a consequence of aviation. They are also a NATURAL phenomenon.

(05-15-2011, 02:03 PM)MGoku Wrote: Can you explain further please?
Cold fronts feature in the world's weather.
Being COLDER than the air they meet, they are DENSER and pass BENEATH the warmer air, raising it.
HIGH TROPOSPHERIC air gets raised into the stratosphere, where, if already humid, it (being intensely cold) will no longer be able to hold its water vapor burden, which will crystallize out by an increasing amount over time a layer of fine ice crystals - a WHITEOUT. Such crystallization almost always requires an aerosol, or a seed particulate, in order to happen.
85% of the Earth's atmospheric particulates (or AEROSOLS) are natural, mostly METHYL SULFIDE molecules produced by OCEAN PHYTOPLANKTON.
These ICE crystals will grow in size and fall down into the troposphere, where they will return to vapor, transporting the seeding aerosol DOWNWARD and leaving the humid stratospheric layer CLEAN of particulates. If by chance a FURTHER RAISING of that layer takes place, then the water vapor trapped in it CANNOT crystallize out for lack of seed particulates (for there aren't any left) - and it THEN becomes SUPERSATURATED.
17% of the earth's lower stratosphere is in this state, and THIS is the state which ALWAYS produces persistent spreading contrails behind any powered aircraft flying through that particular layer condition. The arrival of a cold front ALWAYS gets "chemtrailers" looking upwards and gabbling on the web. The world contains too few open manholes.

Quote:it went to man made geo engineering sky?

Prove that.

Quote:Sorry i forgot but next time i will send flowers with my "proof".

So you either cannot or will not supply proof. That doesn't allow your assertion any meaning at all.

Quote:i wrote another post with a link go to Part 7 of the videos and tell me are those people uneducated and uninformed?
Maybe they were. I reckon one of them wasn't either of those things, but merely unwilling to talk with cranks.

You should learn to use this page editor.
Reply
05-16-2011, 01:37 PM,
RE: The Danger From Above, Chemtrails
Quote:jazzroc wrote:
Why not address the topic The Danger From Above, Chemtrails before some administrator decides to BAN you?

right, it's The Danger From Above, Chemtrails and not "Do chemtrails exist" or "The beautiful life of persistant contrails"! You're free to create a thread like that, but we're beyond the existance question. We're wondering about the "who", "what" and "why". So you're permanently missing the point of the topic. Some admin should take care of paid trolls like you!
Reply
05-16-2011, 03:30 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-16-2011, 04:26 PM by JazzRoc.)
RE: The Danger From Above, Chemtrails
(05-16-2011, 01:37 PM)Krise Wrote: it's "The Danger From Above, Chemtrails"
And WHAT "danger" is that?

HOW do you KNOW it's from "above"?

EXACTLY WHAT are "chemtrails"?

Quote:persistant
Persistent

Quote:existance
Existence

Quote:We're wondering about the "who", "what" and "why".
No, you've stopped wondering about the "what", apparently.

Because you wouldn't be wondering about the "who" and the "why" had you not already decided what the "what" was, would you?

But THAT's the point. You had decided the "who" and the "why" without properly checking whether the "what" was possible. And it isn't...

Quote:So you're permanently missing the point of the topic.
That's a fine, fine irony for a fool to write.

Quote:Some admin should take care of paid trolls like you!
It is MORE LIKELY to get rid of people who devote themselves to ad hominems and slanders that they cannot back up with evidence.

[Image: maxipicnic.jpg]
Picnic at 6,000 ft, 15.00 hrs, about three miles SSW of Mt. Teide, 15th May 2011.
The temperature was 21 deg C, falling to 15 deg C by 19.00 hrs.


Reply
05-20-2011, 10:41 PM,
RE: The Danger From Above, Chemtrails
Michael J. Murphy's, Hawaii Revisited; Investigating Chemtrails/Geo-Engineering http://www.plowedclouds.com/2011/05/michael-j-murphys-hawaii-revisited.html
Reply
05-21-2011, 12:48 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-21-2011, 01:05 PM by JazzRoc.)
RE: The Danger From Above, Chemtrails
(05-20-2011, 10:41 PM)Defendfreedom Wrote: Michael J. Murphy's, Hawaii Revisited; Investigating Chemtrails/Geo-Engineering
Except he didn't. He and others made several false assertions.

No-one there seemed to be informed at all, not even being aware that their island has been continually monitored from space by satellites FOR MORE THAN A QUARTER OF A CENTURY, the information for which is ENTIRELY ACCESSIBLE AND FREE.

The thing about scientific papers is that they leave a reference trail almost back to the dawn of the ENLIGHTENMENT...

[Image: hawaiirefs.jpg]

This video is a close-up debunk of "Tankerenemy's" latest lie.





The trail may be clearly seen forming in "empty" air - except, of course, that AIR on Earth is NEVER EMPTY OF WATER VAPOR.


Reply
05-22-2011, 12:42 PM,
RE: The Danger From Above, Chemtrails
Quote:Except he didn't. He and others made several false assertions.

No-one there seemed to be informed at all, not even being aware that their island has been continually monitored from space by satellites FOR MORE THAN A QUARTER OF A CENTURY, the information for which is ENTIRELY ACCESSIBLE AND FREE.

so, never mind the rain water analysis the hawaiian people initiated! Close your eyes, deny your personal experience with nature and trust in nebulized government statistics. Everything is normal! Go to sleep!
Reply
05-22-2011, 03:29 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-22-2011, 08:00 PM by JazzRoc.)
RE: The Danger From Above, Chemtrails
(05-22-2011, 12:42 PM)Krise Wrote: so, never mind the rain water analysis the hawaiian people initiated!
They analyzed DUST - then called it "soluble salts in water" to get the MDL figures.
The second column - MDL - "maximum dose limit" - applies strictly to soluble materials. It's plainly visible in the crap video.
Insoluble metal salts cannot possibly do you harm: barium sulfate has been swallowed by millions of people who needed X-rays taken of their intestines.
But the dust found in rainfall is BOUND to be insoluble, isn't it?
In other words they were morons playing at science. I thought Hawaii wasn't home to a resident ape population, but I was wrong.

Quote:Close your eyes, deny your personal experience with nature
Don't know about you, mate, but I married a Snowy Owl and my two children became Forest School Camp officials. Nothing beats an English breakfast before the sun has evaporated the dew.
And a "personal" experience with nature has little meaning without the understanding of it brought about by science. How do YOU know the world ISN'T flat? Pictures from space?
Well, the Greeks worked it out without that aid two and a half thousand years ago.

Quote:and trust in nebulized government statistics.
The NEBULA is between your ears, if you believe that. Which government would THAT be?
Read the REFERENCES to find out the nationalities of some of the people involved with atmospheric research.

Also find out about the last hundred years of that research, why don't you?

Quote:Everything is normal! Go to sleep!
You must have been asleep when I asked you the questions I asked you. You WILL answer them, WON'T you?

Namely:

And WHAT "danger" is that?

HOW do you KNOW it's from "above"?

EXACTLY WHAT are "chemtrails"?
Reply


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