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The Ministry of Defence replies to me on the subject of Chemtrails...
04-25-2009, 10:15 PM,
#16
The Ministry of Defence replies to me on the subject of Chemtrails...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsTYbIuC0WI
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04-25-2009, 11:51 PM,
#17
The Ministry of Defence replies to me on the subject of Chemtrails...
'White rain' mystery baffles Flintshire town


Unexplained substance coats cars and washing in Connah's Quay
Unexplained substance coats cars and washing in Connah's Quay
Unexplained substance coats cars and washing in Connah's Quay
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Published Date: 25 August 2008
A MYSTERY white substance that fell on parts of a town in Flintshire has left residents baffled.
People in Connah's Quay are at a loss to explain the so-called "white rain", which has been likened to talcum powder.

Residents in the Golftyn area of the town contacted the Leader on Friday after waking up to find the strange residue on their cars and washing.

One York Road resident said: "I was really concerned at first because I thought it could be corrosive or dangerous.

"The only way I can describe it is white rain. It looked like someone had thrown a flour bomb but on closer inspection it was definitely a strange kind of residue.

"You can see it everywhere – it's all over the cars in the street and it has covered our clothes washing.

"I've lived here for most of my life and I've never seen anything like it before. I think it might be some kind of pollution from local industry."

Cllr Macfarlane, who represents the Golftyn ward, said: "I honestly can't explain it. We have had some localised examples of this kind of thing in the past, but I wouldn't like to say what caused this.

"If people are concerned then it's something that needs to be looked into."

It is not the first time people living in Connah's Quay have raised concerns over mysterious substances falling on their town.

Last year, residents in Garthorpe Avenue noticed strange yellow spots appearing all over their cars, windows and washing.

Resident Dave Webster was so concerned at the effect that the strange spots could be having on his and his neighbours' health, he posted questionnaires through all the doors in his street, asking people to confirm whether they had experienced problems.

He received responses from almost all of the recipients confirming they had, and he contacted both the Environment Agency and Flintshire Council to see if some tests could be carried out.

Speaking when the problem was at its worst, Mr Webster said: "It started in early August. We found yellow spots all over our washing that had been drying on the line and they would not come off.

"There were also yellow spots all over our window sill, which are still there as they have burnt into the PVC, and yellow spots all over a lot of the cars in the street."

But despite months of meeting and inquiries, the source of the spots remains a mystery.


http://www.eveningleader.co.uk/news/White-...hire.4423087.jp
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04-25-2009, 11:53 PM,
#18
The Ministry of Defence replies to me on the subject of Chemtrails...
'The tiniest piece of celery can leave me gasping for breath': Rising number of children allergic to fruit and veg

By Daniel Martin

Last updated at 10:14 PM on 16th April 2009

* Comments (71)
* Add to My Stories

Soaring numbers of children are being diagnosed with allergies to fruit and vegetables.

Doctors have seen the numbers rise by as much as five times in some areas of the country, putting children at risk of asthma.

Experts fear the rising tide of intolerance to fruit and veg could be the new peanut allergy, which affects one in 50 children.
At risk: Brothers Jack, right, and Jerome Harrison can't eat most fruit as it gives them an allergic reaction

At risk: Brothers Jack, right, and Jerome Harrison can't eat most fruit as it gives them an allergic reaction

Symptoms of the new phenomenon - known as 'oral allergy syndrome' - include swelling in the mouth and throat, which in the worst cases can lead to severe breathing difficulties.

The syndrome is linked to hay fever, a seasonal condition. But because fruit and veg are consumed all year round, the effect is more debilitating.

Dr Pamela Ewan, an allergy consultant at Addenbroke's Hospital in Cambridge, said cases or oral allergies to fruit and veg were rising, particularly among children.

'We have seen a big rise in the number of cases in the past four to five years,' she said. 'It is a bit like the peanut was the epidemic of the 1990s.

'I think fruit and vegetables are becoming the epidemic now. In terms of numbers, fruit and vegetables are the new form of peanut allergy.'

She added: 'We think fruit and vegetables are healthy, which they mostly are, but you can be allergic to them. Early on when we first picked is up, it was passed off as not being serious. It began with fairly mild itching in the mouth.

'But now we are seeing people who are getting really severe throat closure, a significant swelling at the back of the throat which can impede breathing.'

Figures are hard to come by, but in south Wales, the numbers being diagnosed have gone up from one for every 100,000 of the population to five - in just six years.

Muriel Simmons, chief executive of the charity Allergy UK, said: 'What is happening is that people who have hay fever also react to fruit and vegetable items.

'At the moment, birch pollen is very much around, and people with this allergy may have trouble with apples, pears, tomatoes and celery because of the cross reaction with the pollen.

'This doesn't happen to everyone but, with 25 per cent of the population having hay fever, up to that number could have oral allergy syndrome. And that would make it all year round.

'GPs are certainly seeing more of these cases, but too often they don't understand what it is and dismiss it. If they do, the allergy can lead to asthma if it is ignored.'

She said children might be becoming more susceptible because of the 'hygiene hypothesis' - where living environments are too clean for people's good.

'Children play with computers a lot more in their room and don't play outdoors where they can take a tumble and come into contact with bacteria,' she said.

'Another possibility is that there are far more different types of fruit and veg commonly available. A few years ago, kiwi, mango and sweet potato were not so easily available.'

Allergy UK believes 40 per cent of adults now have allergies - up from 15 per cent in the 1990s. The number of children with food allergies has tripled in a decade.

They say more varied diets are to blame - and warn the number of sufferers is sure to rise as more exotic foods enter the diet.

Oral allergy syndrome usually affects people who are already allergic to pollen. It happens because the protein in some of the pollens is structurally similar to proteins in certain foods.

For example, the protein in birch pollen is similar to that found in apples and bananas.

The body's immune system which overreacts to birch pollen can therefore overreact in the same way to apples and bananas.

However, this cross-reactivity does not always occur - meaning those allergic to certain pollens will not always be allergic to associated fruit.

Dr Adam Fox, a consultant paediatric allergist at Guy's and St Thomas' Hospital in London, said: 'We are certainly seeing lots of oral allergy syndrome.

'This affects people who are allergic to pollen - such as birch pollen. There is a cross-reactivity between the protein in that pollen with those in fruit and vegetables, so people start getting a reaction to fruits such as apples and pears.

'Normally we would see this among young adults as they start to develop hay fever but we are starting to see more of it among young children. As there is more allergy, the severity seems to be increasing and the patterns are changing.'

Dr Jonathan North, an immunologist from Birmingham, said fruit allergies would rise in the future.

'The chance of cross-reactions with fruits increases with the larger number of types of fruit to which we are exposed,' he said.
'I wish I could eat what everyone else can'
'We wish we could eat what everyone else can': Allergy sufferers Jack and Jerome

'We wish we could eat what everyone else can': Allergy sufferers Jack and Jerome

Schoolboy Jack Harrison is allergic to most types of fruit. A banana can bring him out in a rash.

And even the tiniest piece of celery in a salad can leave him gasping for breath.

'I can eat some types of apples, as well as blackberries and raspberries - but beyond that I can't eat any of the fruits most people eat: oranges, pears, bananas, most type of apples,' said the 15-year-old from Wymondham in Norfolk.

'And celery too I have to avoid. I have quite a bad reaction to that. My throat swells up and I often get a rash. I have to carry my inhaler everywhere.'

Both Jack and his seven-year-old brother Jerome suffer from fruit allergies. Their intolerance is linked to pollen from birch trees.

'There are times when it is so annoying and you wish you could eat what everyone else can,' says Jack. 'If someone has a banana or something I think - yeah that'd be nice.

'It's difficult because it makes it much harder to get my five a day. I have to work hard to get just two or three.

'I've got used to it now. When I go out with my mates I have to be more careful, and when I am abroad I have to look a lot harder.'

Their mother Margaret says the allergies make life more complicated - and more expensive.

'They can't have tomatoes, they can't have oranges. I've had to ban melons, and kiwi are a no no. I have to buy same sort of apples all the time: they can eat Royal Gala, one can eat Granny Smith. One can eat raspberries but it makes it very much more expensive.

'The anxiety is they're not getting enough nutrients. They can't have school dinners, and I have to supply food if they go to someone's birthday party. If they eat out they can have a baked potato - and that's about it. Celery is lethal so you can't just pick what you want out of the salad bar.

'You always have to have it in mind. You can't just walk out of the door and think it's ok - because it isn't. I carry antihistamine cream wherever I go with them.'

The allergies first became apparent when Jack was as young as 18 months, but it was not until he was 10 that the full list of problematic foods became apparent.

'Jack knows what he's doing now, but with Jerome I usually spot the signs before he does - he starts to scratch, or the lips start to swell.

'When they go out they have to ask before they eat anything. I've had to train Jerome to say - I won't have that till mummy comes.

'Some doctors say they will grow out of this. It'd be lovely but we're not holding out much hope.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-...-fruit-veg.html
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04-26-2009, 12:00 AM,
#19
The Ministry of Defence replies to me on the subject of Chemtrails...
Obama may fire pollution particles into stratosphere to deflect sun's heat in desperate bid to tackle global warming

By David Gardner
Last updated at 3:00 PM on 09th April 2009

* Comments (26)
* Add to My Stories

President Barack Obama is considering a radical plan to tackle global warming by firing pollution particles into the stratosphere to deflect some of the sun’s heat.

The controversial experiment was touted yesterday as a possible last resort to help cool the Earth’s air by the president’s new science advisor John Holdren.

‘It’s got to be looked at. We don’t have the luxury of taking any approach off the table,’ said Mr Holdren, Director of the White House Office of Science and Technology.
Sunrise over Earth

Sunscreen: Could its rays be deflected as a last resort to beat global warming?

Holdren, director of the White House Office of Science and Technology, outlined the idea of shooting either sulphur dioxide particles, aluminium oxide dust or specially designed aerosols into the stratosphere - the upper level of the atmosphere between ten and 30 miles above the Earth's surface.

It is hoped that this would cool the planet by artificially reflecting sunlight back into space before it can be absorbed.

Naval guns, rockets, high-flying aircraft and even hot air balloons have been put forward as possible ways of firing the agent into the air.
Obama

Drastic action: Barack Obama wants to use technology to combat climate change

Mr Holdren admitted the scheme could have grave side effects and would not completely solve all the problems from soaring greenhouse gas emissions.

But he said he had raised the idea with the Obama administration and added: 'We might get desperate enough to want to use it.'

Mr Holdren insisted that dramatic action is needed to halt climate change which he compared to being 'in a car with bad brakes driving towards a cliff in a fog'.

There has been widespread resistance in the scientific community to attempts to deliberately modify the environment on such a large scale.

Opponents fear that tampering with the atmosphere's delicate balance could have consequences that would be even worse than global warming.

But Mr Holdren suggested time could be running out. He outlined several 'tipping points' involving climate change that may be fast approaching, such as the complete loss of summer sea ice in the Arctic.

He said that once such milestones are reached it increases the chances of 'really intolerable consequences'.

Mr Holdren also proposed the option of developing 'artificial trees' that would suck carbon dioxide - the chief human-produced greenhouse gas - out of the air and store it.

The synthetic tree, described as looking like a goal post with Venetian blinds, would draw carbon dioxide out of the air, as plants do during photosynthesis.

The idea seemed too costly at first, and is only on the drawing board, but Mr Holdren said it was feasible.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/art...al-warming.html
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04-26-2009, 03:31 AM,
#20
The Ministry of Defence replies to me on the subject of Chemtrails...
Quote:what kind of proof would you need to change your mind?

The question still stands. If you're saying, there is NO WAY you could be wrong about this, there is no point arguing with you. Think about it.
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04-27-2009, 12:22 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-27-2009, 12:35 PM by rsol.)
#21
The Ministry of Defence replies to me on the subject of Chemtrails...
oh yeah and by the way jazz. cloud seeding would be weather modification. You must know about that being in aviation. And Hans, the Chinese doing a weather mod program was good as long as a heavy raincloud didn't come along. not exactly stunning...and nik.....be wary of posting the daily mail. you may as well quote from Rupert Murdock's blog..

lets keep it clean guys....right ding ding!!! round two!
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04-27-2009, 04:28 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-27-2009, 04:34 PM by icewhale.)
#22
The Ministry of Defence replies to me on the subject of Chemtrails...
Why not try again, the real enigma - but this time substitute the word 'chemtrails', with one which the MOD would have a much more difficult time dismissing out of hand. B)

First up, it might be best to remind the MOD that declassified MOD documents have revealed that War Office/MOD/Met Office scientists conducted over 360 separate experiments in public areas of the UK between 1949-1975 - the majority of which involved the dissemination of massive aerosols of various particulate material from varied sources, such as: aircraft; ships, and vehicles.

It would also be good idea to remind the MOD that, in 1999, Lord Gilbert, the Minister for Defence Procurement, revealed that it was MOD policy not to rule out conducting future large-scale experiments in public areas (involving the dissemination of massive aerosols of particulates). [see below]

[Image: UKFieldTrialspolicy.jpg]


In 1999, I made a request under the old Code of Practice on Access to Government Information, asking for current MOD policy re the conduct of aerosol experimentation in public areas of the UK. The reply contained the following statement.


<span style="color:#0000FF">You also requested information about current procedures governing open air trials in public places. In the event of a military question arising which could onl;y be answered by conducting open air trials in areas which may involve the general public, Ministers have made it clear that they cannot rule out the need to conduct large scale trials in the future to try to ensure the protection of the UK from attacks by people of ststes using biological or chemical weapons.


In August 2006, Dstl Porton Down confirned that this policy was still operational - earlier this month, Dtsl Porton Down again admitted that this policy was still in force.:rolleyes:


If you do try again, ensure that your request specifically asks for details of all particulate aerosol experiments conducted by the MOD/ Meterorological Office and their agencies/contractors. You have to add the last bit 'cos the MOD, being Civil Servants, have a tendency to be slippery bastards and forget that they often contract out experiments to universities, etc. I've added the Met Office to the request because they conducted quite a few Large Area Coverage Zinc Cadmium sulphide experiments in the past - all of which were conducted in public areas.


And I have to agree with nik, we just don't know what the MOD are up to at the moment. We can only really go by their past record of public disclosure, which is abyssmal. But, as has been intimated on here, it can be the case that the person replying to the request is not 'in the loop', and is only repeating what they've been told in good faith. When one asks questions regarding national security matters, whether they concern aerosol experiments or Cold War Central Government Home Defence (bugs 'n bunkers'), you are entering the wunnerful world of spook related material - all is smoke and mirrors.B)


Good luck, and don't take no for an answer - in my experience the first rebuttal is just the beginning. :D


*waves* Hi nik, jazz, everyone...B)


icewhale
&Whilst these trials were designed for specific research purposes, they demonstrated, in a striking way, the feasibility of small scale biological warfare.
An appreciable dose of viable bacteria was achieved over an area greater than 1,000 square miles by the release of only 120 gallons of suspension&
End statement of MRE Porton Down Film, &The Lyme Bay Trials& 1966
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04-27-2009, 07:15 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-28-2009, 12:22 AM by JazzRoc.)
#23
The Ministry of Defence replies to me on the subject of Chemtrails...
Quote:So you're basically saying, there is no weather manipulation whatsoever? Just asking, because that's a MUCH stronger claim than saying, chemtrails don't exist. So, what if we showed you public officials admitting they are working on weather control, would that change your mind? Documents maybe? Or, even better, what kind of proof would you need to change your mind?
I don't call a passing thunderstorm weather. A change in weather would mean a change in sea level, ocean currents and general precipitation conditions. A change in weather causes FAMINE all over the Earth for a multiplicity of reasons.

The only natural events on Earth that change weather are large asteroids and volcanoes. Even man-made global warming which is definitely non-intentional, and thirty times greater than the best efforts of our burgeoning aviation industry, is lost in the "noise" of our natural weather.

Chemtrails used to manipulate weather haven't been tried because the scale of the Earth is TOO LARGE for it to be carried out. (Apart from being stupidly poisonous!) Aircraft altitudes are both too low and too high. Too low for the stuff not to disperse within the week, too high to initiate clouds on a rising updraft.

"Public officials working on weather control" would be wasting your taxes. Documents? You mean like "Owning the Weather by 2025"? That bullshit?

Proof? "A change in weather would mean a change in sea level, ocean currents and general precipitation conditions".

Nik: "That was just abusive plain and simple. Can't be arsed with that."

No it wasn't, Nik. Feeling delicate?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsTYbIuC0WI was just as awful as the first time I saw it.

Hiya, Ice...
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04-29-2009, 04:04 AM,
#24
The Ministry of Defence replies to me on the subject of Chemtrails...
Quote:No it wasn't, Nik. Feeling delicate?
.

yeah, that'll be it :nuts: :rolleyes:



Hey, Icewhale, nice to see you around.
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04-29-2009, 05:09 AM,
#25
The Ministry of Defence replies to me on the subject of Chemtrails...
Solar Flares also effect weather. Best I recall, they are natural.
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04-29-2009, 07:15 AM,
#26
The Ministry of Defence replies to me on the subject of Chemtrails...
Quote:I don't call a passing thunderstorm weather. A change in weather would mean a change in sea level, ...

I knew it. You have your own little definition of weather. I just knew it. Next time just say it upfront, so we know you're 'special' and we can take your postings with a huge grain of salt.

Dude that's like saying, "the flu is not a sickness. Sickness would mean faliling organs and blood everywhere".
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04-29-2009, 07:20 AM,
#27
The Ministry of Defence replies to me on the subject of Chemtrails...
Quote:
Quote:I don't call a passing thunderstorm weather. A change in weather would mean a change in sea level, ...

I knew it. You have your own little definition of weather. I just knew it. Next time just say it upfront, so we know you're 'special' and we can take your postings with a huge grain of salt.

Dude that's like saying, "the flu is not a sickness. Sickness would mean faliling organs and blood everywhere".

I'm seeing an emergent paradox here in terms of JR's proclaimed belief in AGM
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04-29-2009, 08:41 AM,
#28
The Ministry of Defence replies to me on the subject of Chemtrails...
Quote:or are you just playing us with words here, "manipulation" is not "modification", is it just semantics like that?

See, I suspected it was just semantics from the beginning. I just didn't think "weather" was a term in question. I was wrong.
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04-29-2009, 03:16 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-29-2009, 03:19 PM by rsol.)
#29
The Ministry of Defence replies to me on the subject of Chemtrails...
well han. im not going to take sides here but the semantics of it can be important. making a small change to the local weather system can be possible. Cloud seeding is a semi-effective way to do this. There have been other experiments to try and control the local weather, with some success but nothing prominent. As far as a GLOBAL change of weather. that is a whole different story.

When you were using the Chinese example as an example of local level, translating that to a huge planetary scale, It simply wouldn't work. The most they can do with current techniques is "maybe" stop it from raining or perhaps make it rain somewhere else. This is not good enough evidence to suggest a massive scale operation. There have been experiments made to see how airborne viral strains propagate in the UK. There have been many experiments trying to control the weather on local levels. The facts are we CAN change the weather when we want. just not very much and with mixed results.

The haarp experiments are on a very small part of the planet. They have 1 power station to do these experiments. As far as human interference with weather is concerned, thats like a eyebrow lice effecting your skin. negligible.

It seems funny to me that proponents of the idea HAARP can change the weather with a bunch of antennas and a power station, cant understand how a few billion people going about their daily lives could have any effect on the weather. You can see the logical fallacy. We give these people more power in your minds and relinquish responsibility to them. Its not our fault its the government. This is why we end up looking like kooks. shit in the living room and blame anyone you like but there's still the stink of shit.
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04-29-2009, 05:17 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-29-2009, 05:47 PM by Hans Olo.)
#30
The Ministry of Defence replies to me on the subject of Chemtrails...
No, no, no. For the purpose of determining wether it's true that they are spraying chemicals and metals in the atmosphere (chemtrails) it doesn't matter if it affects the weather globally, locally or if it actually works or not. It just doesn't matter. It's a red herring. We drifted away from the point (are there chemtrails?) to semantics (weather 'control' vs weather 'manipulation', 'local scale' vs. 'global scale') THAT'S what's going on here and I just about had it.

Having that established, let me repeat my point: China admitted they were doing it (TRYING to manipulate weather by spraying) so what makes you think your country doesn't (try and manipulate weather even on a local scale)? :angry020:
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