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JUDAISM IS A RELIGION - NOT A RACE
12-05-2010, 06:05 PM,
#1
Rainbow  JUDAISM IS A RELIGION - NOT A RACE
JUDAISM IS A RELIGION - NOT A RACE

by: Rabbi Moses Jakubowicz
15 May 2008

During the Middle Ages, the Jewish people suffered many a time from fanatically religious governments who expelled or killed whoever refused to adhere to their religious belief. In the modern era, the Jewish people suffer due to the world’s misunderstanding of the distinction between Judaism and Zionism.

Judaism is a religion, not a race. Throughout history, whoever joined the Jewish religion was called a Jew, no matter what his race, and whoever abandoned the Holy Torah was not considered a Jew. In fact, the biggest names in Jewish history were converts or descendants of converts: King David, Zipporah, Rabbi Akiva, Rabbi Meir, Shmaya and Avtalyon.

The proponents of Zionism, for their own political and financial advantage, have transformed the Jewish religion into a race. Similarly, they have taken the Torah, a book of Divine law which teaches fairness, peace and piety, and transformed it into a vehicle for their political goals, a source for their claims to a piece of land. These claims took their latest form this week, when, to our sorrow, the Zionist falsification was brought to the world’s eyes by the media.

President Bush is visiting the State of Israel, and several rabbis of the extremist Zionist settler community have penned a letter to the President, asking him to stop putting pressure on the Israeli leadership to make land concessions to the Palestinian Authority.

The letter read in part:

"It is totally presumptuous that while the US fights terror, it pressures Israel to make concessions to terrorists! In the name of the people of Israel, the Land of Israel, the Torah of Israel and the G-d of Israel, we demand that his honor the president cease the pressure on the State to hand lands to the Arabs… Honorable President, you must not be remembered in history as Nebuchadnezzar and Titus who destroyed Jerusalem. You must surely remember that American does not benefit from causing damage, Heaven forbid, to the Jewish people and its land. If you help the wholeness of our holy land, we promise you and your country endless blessings."

Signed: Dov Lior, David Druckman, Yaakov Yosef, Shmuel Eliyahu and Shalom Dov Wolpe.

The writers of this letter call themselves rabbis and speak in the name of the Jewish religion, but the world must not allow itself to be fooled. They are radical politicians and militants advancing their own agenda, for which they are distorting the Holy Torah and by doing so they are jeopardizing the Jewish people in the entire world as the Zionists did in the Second World War.

We look forward to the Messianic Era, when Jerusalem will be "a house of prayer for all nations" (Isaiah 56:7)

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/news/newsletters/RJ20080516.cfm
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12-05-2010, 08:18 PM,
#2
RE: JUDAISM IS A RELIGION - NOT A RACE
(12-05-2010, 06:05 PM)Solve et Coagula Wrote: JUDAISM IS A RELIGION - NOT A RACE

by: Rabbi Moses Jakubowicz
15 May 2008

During the Middle Ages, the Jewish people suffered many a time from fanatically religious governments who expelled or killed whoever refused to adhere to their religious belief. In the modern era, the Jewish people suffer due to the world’s misunderstanding of the distinction between Judaism and Zionism.

Judaism is a religion, not a race. Throughout history, whoever joined the Jewish religion was called a Jew, no matter what his race, and whoever abandoned the Holy Torah was not considered a Jew. In fact, the biggest names in Jewish history were converts or descendants of converts: King David, Zipporah, Rabbi Akiva, Rabbi Meir, Shmaya and Avtalyon.

The proponents of Zionism, for their own political and financial advantage, have transformed the Jewish religion into a race. Similarly, they have taken the Torah, a book of Divine law which teaches fairness, peace and piety, and transformed it into a vehicle for their political goals, a source for their claims to a piece of land. These claims took their latest form this week, when, to our sorrow, the Zionist falsification was brought to the world’s eyes by the media.

President Bush is visiting the State of Israel, and several rabbis of the extremist Zionist settler community have penned a letter to the President, asking him to stop putting pressure on the Israeli leadership to make land concessions to the Palestinian Authority.

The letter read in part:

"It is totally presumptuous that while the US fights terror, it pressures Israel to make concessions to terrorists! In the name of the people of Israel, the Land of Israel, the Torah of Israel and the G-d of Israel, we demand that his honor the president cease the pressure on the State to hand lands to the Arabs… Honorable President, you must not be remembered in history as Nebuchadnezzar and Titus who destroyed Jerusalem. You must surely remember that American does not benefit from causing damage, Heaven forbid, to the Jewish people and its land. If you help the wholeness of our holy land, we promise you and your country endless blessings."

Signed: Dov Lior, David Druckman, Yaakov Yosef, Shmuel Eliyahu and Shalom Dov Wolpe.

The writers of this letter call themselves rabbis and speak in the name of the Jewish religion, but the world must not allow itself to be fooled. They are radical politicians and militants advancing their own agenda, for which they are distorting the Holy Torah and by doing so they are jeopardizing the Jewish people in the entire world as the Zionists did in the Second World War.

We look forward to the Messianic Era, when Jerusalem will be "a house of prayer for all nations" (Isaiah 56:7)

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/news/newsletters/RJ20080516.cfm

If they're not a race, how come it's so easy to spot them?

"The gift of speech, as we know, is not often accompanied by the gift of thought" - Somerset Maugham
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12-06-2010, 12:08 AM,
#3
RE: JUDAISM IS A RELIGION - NOT A RACE
(12-05-2010, 08:18 PM)Scorpio Wrote: If they're not a race, how come it's so easy to spot them?

Three words bigot...

Sammy Davis Junior.

[Image: Signature2.gif]
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12-06-2010, 02:15 AM, (This post was last modified: 12-06-2010, 02:21 AM by Scorpio.)
#4
RE: JUDAISM IS A RELIGION - NOT A RACE
(12-06-2010, 12:08 AM)JFK Wrote:
(12-05-2010, 08:18 PM)Scorpio Wrote: If they're not a race, how come it's so easy to spot them?

Three words bigot...

Sammy Davis Junior.

LOL @ bigot.
You really don't know what you are talking about.
Sammy Davis Jr. Converted to Judaism. Converts to Judaism are not considered 'real Jews' by many of the more conservative or Orthodox Jews. They believe in a 'Jewish soul'. Look it up before you hurl around meaningless insults. Rabbis have a long history of lying to the goyim, and reserving the inside truth for their fellow Jews. (you might want to take a look at Judaism Discovered, by Michael Hoffman regarding that point. He gives countless examples that are well referenced).

Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews are both a race, religion and culture. Many of them have common looks and features, since they are each from particular genetic pools.

Yes, there are exceptions. Nothing in this world is absolute. However, I can recognize many Jews that I encounter in life fairly easily.

BTW Jews often can recognize other Jews just by appearance as well.
It's not my fault that you've never noticed that before....

"The gift of speech, as we know, is not often accompanied by the gift of thought" - Somerset Maugham
Reply
12-06-2010, 04:04 AM, (This post was last modified: 12-06-2010, 04:06 AM by Dunamis.)
#5
RE: JUDAISM IS A RELIGION - NOT A RACE
(12-05-2010, 08:18 PM)Scorpio Wrote: If they're not a race, how come it's so easy to spot them?
Ok, so here you suggest/imply they are in fact a race, fair enough.

(12-06-2010, 02:15 AM)Scorpio Wrote: LOL @ bigot.
You really don't know what you are talking about.
Sammy Davis Jr. Converted to Judaism. Converts to Judaism are not considered 'real Jews' by many of the more conservative or Orthodox Jews. They believe in a 'Jewish soul'. Look it up before you hurl around meaningless insults.
So you later argue this above is a defence of Jews being a race, based on what "the more conservative or Orthodox Jews" do or don't believe.

(12-06-2010, 02:15 AM)Scorpio Wrote: Rabbis have a long history of lying to the goyim, and reserving the inside truth for their fellow Jews.
But then, you tell us they're possibly lying...so you kind of go full circle, back onto your own argument.

(12-06-2010, 02:15 AM)Scorpio Wrote: Yes, there are exceptions. Nothing in this world is absolute. However, I can recognize many Jews that I encounter in life fairly easily.
And here you contradict you primary statement, now changing it to "If they're not a race, how come it's so easy to spot some of them?", thereby diffusing any poor humour intended by your joking line of questioning your first post.

Though, seeing such circular reasoning may be seen by some as humorous. It just bores me silly.
"He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." -- 1 John 2:6
"Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly... This is the interrelated structure of reality." -- Martin Luther King Jr.
"He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him." -- Proverbs 18:13
"Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself." -- Leo Tolstoy
"To love is to be vulnerable" -- C.S Lewis

The Kingdom of God is within you! -- Luke 17:20-21

https://duckduckgo.com/
Reply
12-06-2010, 04:24 AM,
#6
RE: JUDAISM IS A RELIGION - NOT A RACE
Just read the Jewish Almanac for all these facts. Used to have a copy when I engaged in religious debate back in theology training. Great resource. Even had a list toward the beginning of how many countries (and how many times) the Jews have been kicked out of their "host" nations.

short answer: they're a people, a religion and a nationality... arguing either/or is silly.

One day I woke up, picked myself up out of the pig pen and realized if I didn't want to find myself there again might be a good idea to stop wrestling with pigs.
Endnigh
* What if the solution is simple & free?: http://www.youtube.com/nv3p
* Choose Freedom & Be the Change: http://concen.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=36698
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12-06-2010, 06:02 AM, (This post was last modified: 12-06-2010, 06:04 AM by Scorpio.)
#7
RE: JUDAISM IS A RELIGION - NOT A RACE
(12-06-2010, 04:04 AM)Dunamis Wrote:
(12-05-2010, 08:18 PM)Scorpio Wrote: If they're not a race, how come it's so easy to spot them?
Ok, so here you suggest/imply they are in fact a race, fair enough.

(12-06-2010, 02:15 AM)Scorpio Wrote: LOL @ bigot.
You really don't know what you are talking about.
Sammy Davis Jr. Converted to Judaism. Converts to Judaism are not considered 'real Jews' by many of the more conservative or Orthodox Jews. They believe in a 'Jewish soul'. Look it up before you hurl around meaningless insults.
So you later argue this above is a defence of Jews being a race, based on what "the more conservative or Orthodox Jews" do or don't believe.

(12-06-2010, 02:15 AM)Scorpio Wrote: Rabbis have a long history of lying to the goyim, and reserving the inside truth for their fellow Jews.
But then, you tell us they're possibly lying...so you kind of go full circle, back onto your own argument.

(12-06-2010, 02:15 AM)Scorpio Wrote: Yes, there are exceptions. Nothing in this world is absolute. However, I can recognize many Jews that I encounter in life fairly easily.
And here you contradict you primary statement, now changing it to "If they're not a race, how come it's so easy to spot some of them?", thereby diffusing any poor humour intended by your joking line of questioning your first post.

Though, seeing such circular reasoning may be seen by some as humorous. It just bores me silly.

Thank you dumb anis for falling into the concen admin stereotype.
you can take different quotes out of context and omitting others all you want.
Try reading what I said in full context.





(12-06-2010, 04:24 AM)ZeroCenter Wrote: Just read the Jewish Almanac for all these facts. Used to have a copy when I engaged in religious debate back in theology training. Great resource. Even had a list toward the beginning of how many countries (and how many times) the Jews have been kicked out of their "host" nations.

short answer: they're a people, a religion and a nationality... arguing either/or is silly.

One day I woke up, picked myself up out of the pig pen and realized if I didn't want to find myself there again might be a good idea to stop wrestling with pigs.
Endnigh
Well said.

"The gift of speech, as we know, is not often accompanied by the gift of thought" - Somerset Maugham
Reply
12-06-2010, 01:33 PM,
#8
RE: JUDAISM IS A RELIGION - NOT A RACE
(12-06-2010, 04:24 AM)ZeroCenter Wrote: Just read the Jewish Almanac for all these facts. Used to have a copy when I engaged in religious debate back in theology training. Great resource. Even had a list toward the beginning of how many countries (and how many times) the Jews have been kicked out of their "host" nations.

short answer: they're a people, a religion and a nationality... arguing either/or is silly.

One day I woke up, picked myself up out of the pig pen and realized if I didn't want to find myself there again might be a good idea to stop wrestling with pigs.
Endnigh

With that reasoning, Witchs ( wiccans ) are a "race", and the great scientists who dared to question "Christianity" are also a "race"...
For that matter any group of people which has been persecuted over the ages is a "race".

Icon_rolleyes

Perhaps you think you are a member of the "master race" ?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/master%20race Wrote:Definition of MASTER RACE
: a people held to be racially preeminent and hence fitted to rule or enslave other peoples
When in fact from where I sit you are merely racist.


[Image: Signature2.gif]
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12-06-2010, 03:13 PM,
#9
RE: JUDAISM IS A RELIGION - NOT A RACE
Great points in this.

BTW, I know the easiest way to spot one of them
Reply
12-06-2010, 05:24 PM,
#10
RE: JUDAISM IS A RELIGION - NOT A RACE
(12-06-2010, 06:02 AM)Scorpio Wrote: Thank you dumb anis for falling into the concen admin stereotype.
you can take different quotes out of context and omitting others all you want.
Try reading what I said in full context.

Wow, how bright of you. You blew me away with that! I did read what you said in context, that's what's amusing, and I invite anyone else to do the same (as long as the post remains unedited by you of course!). Like I said, circular reasoning, case closed.

You obviously, from your behaviour, do not even warrant this reply, but I humoured you. I won't again, it's just feeding you.
"He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." -- 1 John 2:6
"Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly... This is the interrelated structure of reality." -- Martin Luther King Jr.
"He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him." -- Proverbs 18:13
"Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself." -- Leo Tolstoy
"To love is to be vulnerable" -- C.S Lewis

The Kingdom of God is within you! -- Luke 17:20-21

https://duckduckgo.com/
Reply
12-06-2010, 07:12 PM, (This post was last modified: 12-06-2010, 07:23 PM by Scorpio.)
#11
RE: JUDAISM IS A RELIGION - NOT A RACE
(12-06-2010, 01:33 PM)JFK Wrote:
(12-06-2010, 04:24 AM)ZeroCenter Wrote: Just read the Jewish Almanac for all these facts. Used to have a copy when I engaged in religious debate back in theology training. Great resource. Even had a list toward the beginning of how many countries (and how many times) the Jews have been kicked out of their "host" nations.

short answer: they're a people, a religion and a nationality... arguing either/or is silly.

One day I woke up, picked myself up out of the pig pen and realized if I didn't want to find myself there again might be a good idea to stop wrestling with pigs.
Endnigh

With that reasoning, Witchs ( wiccans ) are a "race", and the great scientists who dared to question "Christianity" are also a "race"...
For that matter any group of people which has been persecuted over the ages is a "race".

Icon_rolleyes

Perhaps you think you are a member of the "master race" ?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/master%20race Wrote:Definition of MASTER RACE
: a people held to be racially preeminent and hence fitted to rule or enslave other peoples
When in fact from where I sit you are merely racist.

I merely pointed out a fact: Ashkenazi Jews and Sephardic Jews are a race.
I also said that they are a culture and a religion as well. Yes, there are converts.

Who ever said that wiccans are a race? Give me a break?
When did I ever proclaim myself as a member of a 'master race'??
Enslave others?? yeah, right. Make up some more BS.

So Jews have been persecuted throughout the ages by absolutely no fault of their own? Anyone who dares criticize Jews is a racist?
Got it. Thanks.

I guess if I say that Jews own/run the lion's share of the media and the banks, that makes me a racist as well? LOLLOLLOL Never mind that it's a factual statement.
What if I said that the Jews run Hollywood? Well, we all know that's not true. The Arabs really run Hollywood, right? LOLLOLLOLLOL
Stupid conspirotards.


"The gift of speech, as we know, is not often accompanied by the gift of thought" - Somerset Maugham
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12-06-2010, 07:45 PM, (This post was last modified: 12-06-2010, 07:46 PM by ZeroCenter.)
#12
RE: JUDAISM IS A RELIGION - NOT A RACE
Wow, and the silliness continues.
So much love and warmth from these "productive" discussions.
got to love em.

If you'all are so interested in the topic, find a pdf of the Jewish Almanac.
It clearly defines the Jews as all 3 - a people (race), a religion, and a nationality.
It ain't 'rocket science' folks.
Sleep013
* What if the solution is simple & free?: http://www.youtube.com/nv3p
* Choose Freedom & Be the Change: http://concen.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=36698
Reply
12-06-2010, 09:00 PM,
#13
RE: JUDAISM IS A RELIGION - NOT A RACE
(12-06-2010, 05:24 PM)Dunamis Wrote: I did read what you said in context, that's what's amusing, and I invite anyone else to do the same (as long as the post remains unedited by you of course!). Like I said, circular reasoning, case closed.
While Scorp's argument wasn't written in the most concise or consistent manner, it wasn't circular. You might want to look up that term if you're going to use it.

Leaving aside all the back and forth name calling, this is much like the argument between factions of any other religion. Anti-Zionist Jews behave much like protestant Christians. Zionists don't represent our religion (like protestants claim about Catholics.)

While there might be a defense of the idea that the only defining features of "Jewishness" were originally following the law and mutilating your genitals, that is no longer the dominant paradigm. By it's nature the religion of Judaism created cultural norms around its adherents. But more than that over time that cultural cohesion developed into an identity religion.

Zionism is really no different than Christian Identity. But unlike Christian Identity, Jewish Identity has become the predominant faction of Judaism. That is apparent by the fact that the racial feature now defines "Jewishness" both within the community and outside of it. Concepts such as "atheistic Jews" would be impossible without this transformation to an identity religion.

I understand where Jews who oppose the political machinations of Zionism would try to say that it isn't Judaism. It is certainly a perverse form and isn't exclusively Jewish. But Zionism has shaped much of the cultural concept of what being a Jew means. Contrary to the assertion of such Jewish protestants, the racial and cultural elements of Judaism now predominate the religious element. I appreciate the efforts of such "radicals" (even though I find some of the orthodox practices like blood sacrifices arcane and barbaric). They provide another face to anti-Zionism to offset some of the taint of CI and nazi groups.
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12-07-2010, 02:49 AM, (This post was last modified: 12-07-2010, 02:54 AM by mothandrust.)
#14
RE: JUDAISM IS A RELIGION - NOT A RACE
(12-06-2010, 02:15 AM)Scorpio Wrote:
(12-06-2010, 12:08 AM)JFK Wrote:
(12-05-2010, 08:18 PM)Scorpio Wrote: If they're not a race, how come it's so easy to spot them?

Three words bigot...

Sammy Davis Junior.

LOL @ bigot.
You really don't know what you are talking about.
Sammy Davis Jr. Converted to Judaism. Converts to Judaism are not considered 'real Jews' by many of the more conservative or Orthodox Jews. They believe in a 'Jewish soul'. Look it up before you hurl around meaningless insults. Rabbis have a long history of lying to the goyim, and reserving the inside truth for their fellow Jews. (you might want to take a look at Judaism Discovered, by Michael Hoffman regarding that point. He gives countless examples that are well referenced).

Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews are both a race, religion and culture. Many of them have common looks and features, since they are each from particular genetic pools.

Yes, there are exceptions. Nothing in this world is absolute. However, I can recognize many Jews that I encounter in life fairly easily.

BTW Jews often can recognize other Jews just by appearance as well.
It's not my fault that you've never noticed that before....
i think this is difficult to deny (believe me i tried). i had this discussion with dsb years back, after reading 'political ponerology' (highly recommended), and the high rate of 'psychopaths', and geniuses, among Jews. the point is, it cannot be genetic because Ashkenazi Jews have more in common with the Roma than Sephardic Jews. the common connection therefore is(are) the book(s) and how they identify with it (and their (consequent?) persecution through the ages). weird... but then i remembered a age old tv programme that looked at pet oweners taking on the appearance of their pets... and i thought, maybe in some way, through some shared belief/identity, they took on some subconscious image of what their book(s) (and their (symbolic) rejection of JC) stands for.

please feel free to shoot me down in flames. it was an idea that just popped into my head, just throwing it out for dissection and discussion, if anyone's interested. (perhaps this is true of all of us?)


Vitam Impendere Vero
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12-07-2010, 03:09 AM,
#15
RE: JUDAISM IS A RELIGION - NOT A RACE
(12-06-2010, 09:00 PM)Melchor Wrote:
(12-06-2010, 05:24 PM)Dunamis Wrote: I did read what you said in context, that's what's amusing, and I invite anyone else to do the same (as long as the post remains unedited by you of course!). Like I said, circular reasoning, case closed.
While Scorp's argument wasn't written in the most concise or consistent manner, it wasn't circular. You might want to look up that term if you're going to use it.

I probably should have used the term circular reasoning, but I will stick with the circular, as I was referring to the "Converts aren't Jewish, ask an Orthodox Jew, oh, but unless you are an Orthodox Jew, you will get lied to by the Rabbi, who will tell you that converts aren't real Jews". I see that as a circular argument, it simply defeats itself. As far as reasoning goes, I have little faith much reasoning goes into debates once people begin name calling, as you I am sure have noticed.

Cheers for the rest of your post though, very concise and too the point :yes: Much appreciated Smile
"He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." -- 1 John 2:6
"Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly... This is the interrelated structure of reality." -- Martin Luther King Jr.
"He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him." -- Proverbs 18:13
"Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself." -- Leo Tolstoy
"To love is to be vulnerable" -- C.S Lewis

The Kingdom of God is within you! -- Luke 17:20-21

https://duckduckgo.com/
Reply


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