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At a crime scene, is DNA now easier to plant than fingerprints?
10-01-2010, 04:17 PM,
#1
At a crime scene, is DNA now easier to plant than fingerprints?
Report--Israeli scientists discover way to counterfeit DNA

New York Times reports Israeli firm created blood and saliva samples containing DNA from a third party.

by Haaretz Service, for HAARETZ

Excerpt from article below, complete article at this link.

[beginning of excerpt from article--]

Israeli scientists have shown it is possible to fabricate DNA evidence, according to an article published in the New York Times on Tuesday.

The findings could possibly call into question the credibility of DNA as evidence in criminal cases.

In their tests, the scientists fabricated blood and saliva samples that contained DNA taking from a different person, the New York Times reported.

The article states that the scientists also could take a DNA profile in a database and use it to make a DNA sample to match the profile without needing any tissue from the person.

The article quotes the lead author of the scientific paper, Dr. Dan Frumkin as saying that the study shows "you can just engineer a crime scene" adding "any biology undergraduate could perform this."

Frumkin is one of the founders of Nucleix, a Tel Aviv-based company that developed a test to distinguish real DNA samples from fake ones. According to the New York Times, the firm is looking to sell the test to forensics laboratories.

Legal and civil rights experts quoted in the article say the test is troubling, in that it could mean more cases of fabricated DNA being used as evidence at crime scenes.

[end of article excerpt, complete article at this link]
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10-01-2010, 04:36 PM,
#2
RE: At a crime scene, is DNA now easier to plant than fingerprints?
Quote:The article states that the scientists also could take a DNA profile in a database and use it to make a DNA sample to match the profile without needing any tissue from the person.

This was pretty much the idea behind creating a DNA database to begin with isnt it?

Our trepidation and mistrust of the "justice system" have been proven justified once again. This pretty much just makes it easier to frame someone for murder or whatever "terrorist" act they want to blame on someone.

Kind of makes me wonder about DNA samples collected on 9-11 too...
"Listen to everyone, read everything, believe nothing unless you can prove it in your own research"
~William Cooper

DTTNWO!
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10-01-2010, 04:41 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-01-2010, 04:50 PM by h3rm35.)
#3
RE: At a crime scene, is DNA now easier to plant than fingerprints?
Bad news...
I wonder if this is being covered by other news outlets or if this will pass unnoticed by the majority of the world into the memory hole? Anyone seen this news elsewhere?

edit:
I went ahead and answered both my questions, and found out that the bad news is worse than I thought - The original piece in the New York Times is over a year old. I wonder how many times this research has found practical usage at this point?
[Image: conspiracy_theory.jpg]
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10-01-2010, 06:06 PM,
#4
RE: At a crime scene, is DNA now easier to plant than fingerprints?
all these samples end up on a database, even easier.
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10-10-2010, 12:36 AM, (This post was last modified: 10-10-2010, 12:37 AM by JazzRoc.)
#5
RE: At a crime scene, is DNA now easier to plant than fingerprints?
I don't get the logic - if any is being used here.
What difference does ANY level of technology make if its operator isn't operating with YOUR interests in mind?
What POSSIBLE technology constitutes, by itself, PROOF of malfeasance?
If the PTB aren't working in your interest then they never needed ANY special technology to do so at any time, and you haven't YET made a case that they AREN'T working in your interest.
All that remains (no case!) is baseless paranoia.
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10-10-2010, 01:27 AM,
#6
RE: At a crime scene, is DNA now easier to plant than fingerprints?
"By way of deception, thou shalt do war."
-- Israeli MOSSAD
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10-10-2010, 08:40 AM,
#7
RE: At a crime scene, is DNA now easier to plant than fingerprints?
I don't get it, if anyone wanted to frame someone for murder why would anyone fabricate someone's DNA when you can get it from a hairbrush or something out of the trashcan any other day?
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10-10-2010, 10:42 AM,
#8
RE: At a crime scene, is DNA now easier to plant than fingerprints?
(10-10-2010, 08:40 AM)Hans Olo Wrote: I don't get it, if anyone wanted to frame someone for murder why would anyone fabricate someone's DNA when you can get it from a hairbrush or something out of the trashcan any other day?

Here are several reasons I can think of just off the top of my head:
  • Hair in a trash can may not be from the target.
  • It may not be possible or practical to get DNA evidence from the target.
  • It may be that the DNA evidence from the target is in a form that would not be suitable for the evidence plant.

[Image: randquote.png]
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10-10-2010, 11:06 AM,
#9
RE: At a crime scene, is DNA now easier to plant than fingerprints?
(10-10-2010, 12:36 AM)JazzRoc Wrote: I don't get the logic - if any is being used here.

Why am I not surprised?

(10-10-2010, 12:36 AM)JazzRoc Wrote: What difference does ANY level of technology make if its operator isn't operating with YOUR interests in mind?

Most criminals don't want to get caught.

It is obvious to me that technologies can:
  • enable more effective methods of framing someone.
  • be used to mask the perpetrators of a crime.
  • be used to make crimes possible that otherwise wouldn't be.
Isn't it obvious to you?

(10-10-2010, 12:36 AM)JazzRoc Wrote: What POSSIBLE technology constitutes, by itself, PROOF of malfeasance?

Some technologies can obviously point to who the perp is. If the perp as no justification for using said technology to hurt others, then they are guilty of a crime for which they most likely do not want to be caught.

Some technologies are illegal to use for any purpose.

(10-10-2010, 12:36 AM)JazzRoc Wrote: If the PTB aren't working in your interest then they never needed ANY special technology to do so at any time,

See above. We still have what most people think is a democracy in most of the world. Therefore it is still illegal to murder or frame someone. Therefore a PTB that engages in these acts risks losing its power by being overt.

(10-10-2010, 12:36 AM)JazzRoc Wrote: and you haven't YET made a case that they AREN'T working in your interest.

That is because we are discussing a technology, not a crime. Are you denying the the PTB don't use technology to commit crimes?

(10-10-2010, 12:36 AM)JazzRoc Wrote: All that remains (no case!) is baseless paranoia.

See above.

Your contempt for people who don't think the way you do is palpable.

I would have thought that at your age and intelligence, you would have learned by now that it is not a good idea to underestimate the intelligence of your audience. I also would have thought that at your age and intelligence, you would have learned by now that making assumptions about what other people know or think is not a good idea.

Maybe you have, but from where I'm sitting, you haven't.
[Image: randquote.png]
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10-10-2010, 11:16 AM, (This post was last modified: 10-10-2010, 11:28 AM by yeti.)
#10
RE: At a crime scene, is DNA now easier to plant than fingerprints?
BTW people, most of you probably aren't aware that the method used to match fingerprints is very open to abuse. It is nowhere near close to being an exact science.

You would think that in order to match up fingerprints, they would just make a transparency of known and unknown fingerprints and superimpose them for easy comparison, right? Not so fast. Some prints are made on irregular surfaces. Other times only partial prints can be obtained. Enter the "experts" who note "special characteristics" and who also spout lies about the accuracy of their matches. IOW they can use real evidence to make false matches!

Several fingerprint "experts" have been exposed as useful tools to frame people. Several organisations have been exposed for framing huge numbers of their enemies using fingerprints.

Most of you are also probably not aware that ballistics tests are also not open and shut - in fact the whole science has been exposed repeatedly as being fraudulent.

Recently the FBI claim that they could match a spent bullet with a box of unspent bullets by measuring the composition of the material in the bullets was proven to be a lie, yet cases where the prosecution used this "method" remain closed.

Despite the proven problems with these technologies, courts continue to allow "experts" to testify for the prosecution, and juries still continue to believe that such evidence is indisputable.

I wonder why that is?
[Image: randquote.png]
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10-11-2010, 02:36 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-11-2010, 02:38 PM by JazzRoc.)
#11
RE: At a crime scene, is DNA now easier to plant than fingerprints?
(10-10-2010, 11:06 AM)yeti Wrote: Why am I not surprised?
Because you aren't intelligent.

Quote:Most criminals don't want to get caught.
Gerraway.

Quote:It is obvious to me that technologies can blah Isn't it obvious to you?
But the PTB are already IN their position of power. There are an infinity of ways they CAN progrees a "case". They need NO new techno;ogies to do that.

Quote:Some technologies can obviously point to who the perp is. If the perp as no justification for using said technology to hurt others, then they are guilty of a crime for which they most likely do not want to be caught. Some technologies are illegal to use for any purpose.
What POSSIBLE technology constitutes, by itself, PROOF of malfeasance?

Quote:We still have what most people think is a democracy in most of the world. Therefore it is still illegal to murder or frame someone. Therefore a PTB that engages in these acts risks losing its power by being overt.
Gerraway.

Quote:That is because we are discussing a technology, not a crime.
Well you AREN'T, are you?

Quote:Are you denying the the PTB don't use technology to commit crimes?
Am I against SIN? Yes. DO they invent or harness technology to commit crime?
Prove it.

Quote:Your contempt for people who don't think the way you do is palpable.
I HOPE I don't think like you do, but I don't KNOW that.
Palpate away.

Quote:I would have thought that at your age and intelligence, you would have learned by now that it is not a good idea to underestimate the intelligence of your audience. I also would have thought that at your age and intelligence, you would have learned by now that making assumptions about what other people know or think is not a good idea.
I never waste my time trying to judge such things in advance, especially when there is no need in any event.
I am concerned about a topic which is ostensibly about technology when in fact it is more expressive of the paranoia of the questioner.

Quote:Maybe you have, but from where I'm sitting, you haven't.
I am waiting for a time when I might care more about that. It isn't right now, for sure.
Perhaps sometime when it occurs to you that my questions are (and remain) quite logical.
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10-11-2010, 03:48 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-11-2010, 04:06 PM by yeti.)
#12
RE: At a crime scene, is DNA now easier to plant than fingerprints?
(10-11-2010, 02:36 PM)JazzRoc Wrote:
(10-10-2010, 11:06 AM)yeti Wrote: Why am I not surprised?
Because you aren't intelligent.

I'm pretty confident the vast majority of people on this site would disagree.

Anyway you just lost the last shred of respect I had for you, but I'm sure you don't care.

(10-11-2010, 02:36 PM)JazzRoc Wrote: DO they invent or harness technology to commit crime?
Prove it.

LOL

None are so blind as those who refuse to see. This forum has literally thousands of examples of crimes committed by TPTB, yet you smugly ask me to prove the obvious.

What exactly are you doing on this site? Why are you here? Do you think you're adding anything useful? Does insulting people's intelligence make you feel smarter?

You are an enemy of the truth, JazzRoc, but because your arrogance is so apparent, you're relatively harmless.
[Image: randquote.png]
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10-14-2010, 11:26 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-15-2010, 12:10 AM by JazzRoc.)
#13
RE: At a crime scene, is DNA now easier to plant than fingerprints?
(10-11-2010, 03:48 PM)yeti Wrote: I'm sure you don't care.
Of course not.

Quote:None are so blind as those who refuse to see. This forum has literally thousands of examples of crimes committed by TPTB, yet you smugly ask me to prove the obvious.
And since when was THAT new? Try reading the Bible.

Quote:What exactly are you doing on this site? Why are you here? Do you think you're adding anything useful? Does insulting people's intelligence make you feel smarter?
I ask those questions of YOU.
Some aspect of tech to YOU confirms the evil nature of the PTB. Oooo.
THAT is an insult to ANYONE'S intelligence.
To reiterate, it doesn't matter WHAT the tech is, the PTB will biff you with a club to keep you down, unless you box clever.
Ranting about it is a flagrant waste of time - like chemtrails and 9-11 truth.

Quote:You are an enemy of the truth, JazzRoc, but because your arrogance is so apparent, you're relatively harmless.
You haven't even found any. Remember the Jack Nicholson quote?



Quit the mirror-speak, hypocrite, squash the topic, and GO find some REAL TRUTH. If you can figure out what that is...

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