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The world BEYOND - your GOALS
09-03-2010, 10:19 PM, (This post was last modified: 09-05-2010, 11:33 PM by newworlddisorder.)
#1
The world BEYOND - your GOALS
me thinks that there is a fundamental problem...

have you thought about what all this information on the net is supposed to accomplish?

lets say a person reads, watches and listens to every single media file existing to the public on the internet... assuming the person the insight to apply what he feels is correct to the person's life... the person becomes eco friendly, vegetarian and so on... all this will only change the person's own life...

that which is missing is the change in the outer world...

if 6 billion people consumed all media on the internet, and applied that to their lives, the world would automatically change.. BUT very few people consume enough information, and fewer have insights to apply them to their lives, and even fewer share truth with others... and even fewer have others listening to them that apply the insights to THEIR own lives...

if it wasn't for forums or other means on the internet, people would not be able to share ideas.. We (some) DO use the internet to share information, BUT it still only happens in the virtual world, and not in the real world. and it only reaches few people. because only people with alternative ideas seek alternative ideas, and not the general population..

[
The opposite of this is MASS media, which has the power that comes from the definition 'MASS' media, and those that reach out the MASSes have only news and stuff that has happened recently somewhere on the planet... Which is kind of irrelevant or unnecessary when considering that they could actually be writing about the current SITUATION of mankind on the planet, or HOW we got here, and our purpose etc. or even SPECULATING about those things (which would have astounding effect, because people would like a purpose, even if it was speculation, they would identify themselves with that which resonates with them)..
But MASS media is only going mainstream, with the purpose of not awaking any interest in topics that really matter and keep the machine going one more day at a time..
]

the internet is good that it allows strangers to share information....
But if we had no internet, people would perhaps be OUTSIDE sharing information and joining forces in the real life?

my message is that; one of the most important things needed is to make people get together and work for a common goal, by both communicating and acting, in the real world.

We can write and comment on forums all day, every day for all eternity, but we may still not be getting anywhere...

What needs to be changed is the outer world, would you not agree?

*******************GOALS**********************

I think we need a goal in the real world.. everyone inclined in conspiracies and so on has a tendency of finding the bad guy in their scenarios.. as if their problems would be solved if they were gone...

assume we got rid of all the bad guys... where would we be then?

we should not make 'removing of the bad guys' our GOAL, we should make the WORLD that is *BEYOND* 'removing the bad guys' our GOAL!

again? where would we be without conspiracy-inducing governments and potential bad guys around and potentially 'IN' the governments?

Can you define what you would like to see the world to be without your bad guys?

if you can not, do you not then lack a personal sense of purpose for your life, and for all human life on the planet?

Do you understand?

Don't you think your potential BAD GUYS that rule, partially, your world, have PURPOSES?
Don't you think you need purposes in order to guide the world in a certain direction?
Don't you think that YOU need a purpose that is BEYOND 'the removal of those who direct your world', in order to counteract THEIR guidance ?

Should we not make the world BEYOND 'that', our goal?

Alternatives for that which is beyond are;
(Although inappropriately meaning 'place non-existent') UTOPIA.
An other name is Paradise, an other name is Heaven.

What are your goals?


**************************************
EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT :

This message is for YOU reading this, not only for those who compete in writing the longest and most discouraging replies that wish to force people to either read lots of irrelevant text, get tired in the head, or get discouraged in joining in a meaningful discussion.

this "place beyond and making it your goal" thing is NOT about paychecks, money, banks, governments, hospital bills, house rents, economy, stock markets, country borders, weapons, war machinery, advertising, commercials, vaccinations and so on.
(if you are stuck on them, and if you can only imagine a future where you still have these things/concepts in your life then you are not far away from your position today.)

my wish is that you try really, really hard to imagine a place where non of the above concepts apply.

im talking about a potential place, BEYOND that.

THAT WHICH WE ONCE WERE perhaps.. clarification:

BEFORE:x --------NOW:banks,money,governments,vaccinations,wars,weapons,etc.. --------ALTERNATIVE FUTURE:y

y=a place beyond.
have you considered [y] ?
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09-04-2010, 01:18 PM,
#2
RE: The world BEYOND - your GOALS
I dig the post .. certainly going to chime in on this one later - but for now I'm headed off to see Bad Religion at the Sonic Boom Festival in Edmonton.

Subscribed.
There are no others, there is only us.
http://FastTadpole.com/
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09-04-2010, 05:10 PM,
#3
RE: The world BEYOND - your GOALS
Quote:I think we need a goal in the real world.. everyone inclined in conspiracies and so on has a tendency of finding the bad guy in their scenarios.. as if their problems would be solved if they were gone

Too presumptuous with the use of the word 'everyone'. I do not subscribe to that idea anyway. I see behaviour everywhere that if embarked upon by people in high places would certainly carry the accusation of conspiracy. I suppose you need to clarify your own position regarding 'the conspiracy' and its extent. Is it merely people trying to gain more money or power? Is it deeper than the 'material' plane? Does it control the world already (and if so for how long) or is it attempting to obtain that control without actually possessing it at the moment? Is it one singular group or has it been wrestled over by many? If you tell us your take on the question it will be easier to answer. Many psychologists who 'debunk' conspiracy theory usually resort to the argument that they are set up in the believers mind to mask the general incompetence of the believer who blames all their problems to an external group which if didn't exist would make for a better life. You do seem to understand however that we will still have problems even with the removal of the Jews/Reptillians/Jesuits/Neo-Cons etc which is something that proponents of each theory doesn't seem to be able to grasp. I think alot of this kind of thinking (in modern times) is rooted in Marxism which generally sees abolition as the solution to a problem which leads it a step closer to a utopic state.

Quote:assume we got rid of all the bad guys... where would we be then?

Again depends on what level of power you give the 'bad guys' and to what extent you find the existing level of human development agreeable or desirable. If they control virtually everything, the masses would eventually have to resort to a return to self sufficiency, growing one's own food and setting up one's own shelter while bartering for items they are unable to produce themselves that they deem necessary to their existence. Paper money and gold would be useless as there wouldn't be any big banks to legitimise them. The third world would have no trouble surviving and may even thrive without the 'bad guys' watching over them. It also depends on how the removal of the 'bad guys' is accomplished and how much information regarding them is available to other people. If it is a somewhat lowkey event you may have the masses turn on the removers, especially in their ignorance of what was going on behind the scenes, and instill a similar or more dictatorial regime. With the interconnectedness of economics, politics, law and business the way it is at the moment, the removal of whoever is at the top would result in an almost certain crash in the existing system and therefore its infrastructure and accompanying way of life - particularly in the 'developed' world. I think the masses in general realise this to an extent and blindly maintain it due to their unwillingness to want to lower their 'standard of living'. In essence then we are talking about reevaluating what is actually necessary and important to us as human beings. One way, especially in the west, to realise if you are a slave is to ask yourself if I was not working tomorrow, would I survive?

Quote:we should not make 'removing of the bad guys' our GOAL, we should make the WORLD that is *BEYOND* 'removing the bad guys' our GOAL!

You should start with yourself. The world beyond you speak of would almost certainly mean the elimination of the philosophies that put us in such a precarious position which is infact related to us being so dependant on something else. I agree though that too many concentrate on the removal and offer nothing to take its place. But this too can be its own worst enemy much like Marxism, which did not speculate much on it's actual utopia in turn leading to any attempt to establish and practice said utopia, upon its inevitable failure to be passed off as not being practiced as it was intended. To clarify; because Marx never said how the utopia would look like, his followers could always say it had never been practiced and thus, instead of looking at flaws in the philosophy, they constantly attempted to reestablish the utopia. This is something that must be taken into consideration in your 'world beyond' - removing ambiguity which will only create multiple interpretations of your 'world beyond' eventually becoming it's own enemy.

Quote:again? where would we be without conspiracy-inducing governments and potential bad guys around and potentially 'IN' the governments?

There is no guarentee at all that we will be any better off, but no guarentee that we'd be worse. It depends on whoever is to replace them and if you understand group dynamics, usually the more egomaniacal members of a group will rise to the top of the decision making segments nullifying them to a point. Perhaps anarchy or self-regulating communities would limit this somewhat. You'd have to factor in the level of power you are going to give the replacing group(s). Essentially you'd have to think like lower level members of government who have to weigh up the pros and cons of potential threats to society (whether real, fictitious or funded) before reaching a decision.

Quote:Can you define what you would like to see the world to be without your bad guys?

if you can not, do you not then lack a personal sense of purpose for your life, and for all human life on the planet?

Define purpose and why should that purpose then dictate what is expected of the rest of humanity? One could say it was the purpose of Christians and Muslims to spread their message to as many people as possible in order to save them from hell. Perhaps a noble act but with disastrous consequences. The same happened with the socialist dream. All based on unclearly defined concepts that in all honesty probably don't exist. Maybe the opposite is necessary. One thing though is that what works for the individual (obtaining purpose) is not fair to base as a working model of 'all human life'. We are too complex for that. Unless that 'purpose' is allowed to be different depending on the needs of the individual, which then defeats itself in trying to find a unifying concept. The world without bad guys can be described, however what happens if it doesn't conform to your vision? Or anyone else's. It is pointless in trying to realise, however is effective as a motivator so not entirely pointless.

Quote:Don't you think your potential BAD GUYS that rule, partially, your world, have PURPOSES?
Don't you think you need purposes in order to guide the world in a certain direction?
Don't you think that YOU need a purpose that is BEYOND 'the removal of those who direct your world', in order to counteract THEIR guidance ?

Potential? Potential suggests that they don't exist (yet) rendering the whole argument pointless. Maybe they have purpose maybe they don't - needs to be defined or clarified. Do you mean it in a mystical sense, deterministic or fateful sense or just simply something someone says they want to achieve or do. As remarked in the previous comment why should said purpose involve formulating a system that requires the rest of the world to follow it? If you've looked into history you'll have noticed that this has indeed been the rationale for groups in the past to subjugate others. Look to any imperial power and you will find they assumed to have a far superior method to living than anyone else and based on this, they are justified to share it with everyone else. Of course this method doesn't seem to respect those that don't agree with it - much like the modern U.S. who are 'importing democracy' even if people don't want it. It is the same idea behind any muslim wanting to implement Sharia law, the socialist attempting to remove class distinctions, the west imposing its cultural values to its colonies and a whole plethora of well meaning but eventually failed social ideals and experiments. Direction too needs to be defined further. It has too much in common with the idea that history has an end point or goal - an idea within all the ideologies just mentioned. Whether it is the concept of judgement day, the implementation of the utopia, the eugenic concepts in Nazism or even the esoteric ideas of man's awakening or eventual perfection, they all allude to a predetermined goal that nature/history/god/evolution has implanted within humanity. Direction assumes one knows the correct path to travel and as we can only walk one path at a time, the walking of any particular path comes at the detriment of any other path. There are in fact more examples that direction has been the cause of most of our problems than without it.

What I have come to realise then is that a philosophy is at work behind a large chunk of human endeavour, one that in fact leads to the eventual adoption of deception and conspiratorial methods as acceptable tools in the realisation of it's goals. Very few people wake up in the morning plotting to do evil. Thus we can assume the majority of evil is done with good intentions. If you want to understand this philosophy I would suggest reading Karl Poppers' 'The Open Society and it's Enemies' to understand the Platonic influence on modern totalitarianism (central to Platonic philosophy being the creation of its Utopia - The Republic), read Manly P. Halls' 'The Secret Teachings of All Ages' to understand the Eastern roots of Platonism and then Platonisms eventual line of descent as the thought process behind empire building elites through history (also modified to neo-platonism) and to see it's centrality to the ideology of the Secret Societies through time (which have exerted a disproportionate level of influence in society and governance through history) and then pick up Blavatsky's 'Secret Doctrine' to see how the philosophies of Brahmanism, esoteric Christianity, Gnostcism, Kaballism and Platonism, amongst others, merge - its modern incarnation being the new world order concept.
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09-04-2010, 06:34 PM,
#4
RE: The world BEYOND - your GOALS
well not everyone will be able to get it.

regarding 'potential', in this case i have used it with the meaning of "possibly true". Don't get hung up.

it's about people being able to imagine a world beyond this one, that they would like to live in, any definition by anyone famous is irrelevant.

My reason for investigating anything regarding conspiracies, world history, mythology etc is because I was born into this world, and I wonder, why on earth, the world i was born in to, was&is not a better place..
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09-05-2010, 05:26 AM,
#5
RE: The world BEYOND - your GOALS
I think it is the human condition to never be satisfied. If you took some starving potato farmer from the dark ages in Europe and tossed him in modern America, gave him an SSI check, food stamps and Medicaid, he'd probably shit his pants in ecstasy. At least at first.

I guess what I am maybe trying to get at here is that the improvement of the human race is a constant process, and while it is easy to get hung up on how fucked the world is, it's crazy just how easy any of us lucky enough to have a nice apartment and processed food and internet and enough education to get on a conspiracy forum have it.

Any one of us could drop everything today, swear off work, get on welfare, move to some contracting shit city where you can rent a room for $400/mo including utilities and we'd be living far better than a wealthy man would have 500 years ago.

I completely forgot what I was trying to get at there, but yeah.
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09-05-2010, 05:46 AM, (This post was last modified: 09-05-2010, 07:37 AM by nik.)
#6
RE: The world BEYOND - your GOALS
too many rich kids

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09-20-2010, 06:32 AM,
#7
RE: The world BEYOND - your GOALS
As for a short term goal, I think that we generally need to retire from 'culture,' that is, stop paying taxes, using money, and recognizing 'authority' as legitimate (don't laugh, I know how this sounds). I think that this can be achieved by a universal declaration of intent, similar to the work commonly called 'freeman-on-the-land,' only public, simple, and somehow something that everyone can agree with (now there's the long shot).

The idea might read like this:

I, _____________, do declare that I seek no control or authority over anyone's life but my own and my kin. Keeping this is mind, I recognize no authority over my life or my kin's. yada, yada, so on and so forth.

---------

I think changing the inner world, people's perspectives, would result in a changing of the outer world, people's lifestyles.
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09-21-2010, 06:00 AM,
#8
RE: The world BEYOND - your GOALS
I'm interested in your ideas capmtripps. Beautiful post...

Welcome to the forum BTW.




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09-21-2010, 06:19 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-04-2010, 10:25 PM by capmtripps.)
#9
RE: The world BEYOND - your GOALS
(09-21-2010, 06:00 AM)April Wrote: I'm interested in your ideas capmtripps. Beautiful post...

Welcome to the forum BTW.

Thanks April,

I'm new to the forum but have been following the tracker for about 7 years, integrating as much information as possible and filtering it through my unique individual perspective. Having studied philosophy in academia for a bunch of years and ultimately finding it inadequate to express the scope of my ideas, I've been somewhat of an intellectual recluse. I am hoping very much, now, to get out into cyberspace and let my intentions be known to a wider audience; after all, many of the people I've tried to engage about 'edgy' issues have often reacted dismissively or defensively anyways. Why not try to get involved with people on a similar page?

I think on TV they call this 'plugging' or 'shameless self-promotion,' but if you're interested I've recently started a blog. I'd be happy to share it with you.

The crux of what I'm getting at there can be more summarily expressed in some ideas that Marc Stevens at the No State Project has influenced me with, namely, a short and concise question that can be asked of anyone regardless of their political subscriptions:

"how much violence are you (you, personally) willing to inflict on me (me, physically) in order to have me comply with your beliefs?"

Looking someone in the eye whilst asking this is a very potent action. I've only gotten 'no' as an answer, but the logical conclusions that follow from that answer are seldom easily communicated. Some people just don't get it.

If you're not willing to inflict violence on me, their neither ought you be willing to authorize others to do it for you, i.e., government thugs that think I owe them something, that I've done something wrong, or the international financiers that are responsible for world-wide genocide via non-functioning economic systems. Ok, I've had a bit of coffee and I might be rambling.

Thanks again for being interested...

oh,

and,

since I forgot to include it in the original post, here's a link to my blog where you can find a tentative development of these ideas:

misfitshaman.blogspot.com

Peace..
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