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September Clues Addendum Chapter 1
08-19-2010, 09:32 PM,
#1
September Clues Addendum Chapter 1
http://concen.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=34694&pid=196888#pid196888
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08-24-2010, 12:24 AM,
#2
RE: September Clues Addendum Chapter 1
Considering that in a law court a forensic case might be that a small circular hole evidenced the passage of a bullet, and that a thin but deep cut evidenced the use of a knife, what forensic case might be made for this hole?

[Image: planehole-1.jpg]

[Image: woman_wtc.jpg]

[Image: womaninWTCHole.jpg]

Note that snapped column-ends face inward - which rules out ANY internally-placed explosion.

I repeat, what forensic case might be made for this hole?

What shape is it?
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08-24-2010, 12:45 AM,
#3
RE: September Clues Addendum Chapter 1
It looks definitely plane shaped. How could a hole like this be faked? I agree with you Jazzroc in consequence, but I also agree it's arguable.
You'd have to plant very exact charges, and I guess that's possible. I doubt that by picking out one or two bent columns from that photograph you can really 'rule out' explosives for sure. By the way, most of the other columns look cleanly cut.

If only there was a way of telling how the result of an explosion looks very different from that of a collision or a collapse. The whole 9/11 movement depends on that distinction being made right...
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08-24-2010, 12:50 AM,
#4
RE: September Clues Addendum Chapter 1
Blah blah blah, never mind the shape of the hole, what about the woman standing there? What does that say about the temperature at the crash site? Think it is hot enough to weaken steel?
An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it.
Mohandas Gandhi


Each of us is put here in this time and this place to personally decide the future of humankind.
Did you think you were put here for something less?
Chief Arvol Looking Horse
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08-24-2010, 06:11 AM,
#5
RE: September Clues Addendum Chapter 1
shouldn't this be merged with the thread of the same name in "off-topic?"
[Image: conspiracy_theory.jpg]
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08-24-2010, 07:21 PM, (This post was last modified: 08-24-2010, 07:36 PM by nik.)
#6
RE: September Clues Addendum Chapter 1



(08-24-2010, 12:24 AM)JazzRoc Wrote: Considering that in a law court a forensic case might be that a small circular hole evidenced the passage of a bullet, and that a thin but deep cut evidenced the use of a knife, what forensic case might be made for this hole?

[Image: planehole-1.jpg]

[Image: woman_wtc.jpg]

[Image: womaninWTCHole.jpg]

Note that snapped column-ends face inward - which rules out ANY internally-placed explosion.

I repeat, what forensic case might be made for this hole?

What shape is it?

So are you then variously conceding from the same postulate that bombs were clearly planted UNDER at least one of the tube train carriages on 7/7?

[Image: Bomb-underneath-floor.jpg]

As to the hole in the tower, the question is contended here:

http://z6.invisionfree.com/Reality_Shack/index.php?showtopic=289

From the Naudet movie 9/11 (shortly after "1st hit")
[Image: GASH0.jpg]

From the History Channel (at a later moment in the day of 9/11)
[Image: GASH2.jpg]

Quote:Some people say the longer black stripe seen at far right of the Naudet gash is either
"SMOKE" or "A SHADOW". I say that it is a bad digital 'paintbrush' job.

So today's challenge (N°3) is...

Debunk my claim - keeping in mind that
1: the wind is blowing from right to left.
2: A shadow-shape needs to match with some corresponding sun-blocking matter.


The full sequence of the Naudet first hit - for your reference:
"THE PLANE FACTS" (video) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkZKOqYMbXo&f

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08-24-2010, 10:15 PM, (This post was last modified: 08-24-2010, 10:16 PM by rsol.)
#7
RE: September Clues Addendum Chapter 1
i think you find i aswer that on the other thread. what could make a dark shadow? maybe black arid smoke??? ever thought it might be both?
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08-25-2010, 12:29 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-25-2010, 01:37 AM by JazzRoc.)
#8
RE: September Clues Addendum Chapter 1
(08-24-2010, 07:21 PM)nik Wrote: So are you then variously conceding from the same postulate that bombs were clearly planted UNDER at least one of the tube train carriages on 7/7?
[Image: Bomb-underneath-floor.jpg]
It's the first time I have seen this one.
The floor is concave, so the explosion (a BIG one) was above it. Next.
Quote:As to the hole in the tower... Some people say the longer black stripe seen at far right of the Naudet gash is either "SMOKE" or "A SHADOW". I say that it is a bad digital 'paintbrush' job.
So today's challenge (N°3) is... Debunk my claim - keeping in mind that
1: the wind is blowing from right to left.
2: A shadow-shape needs to match with some corresponding sun-blocking matter.
OK. I'm carrying on a fruitless debate (as Beachcomber2008) in the comments on this YT video, where I make the same point:

As far as I see it, the plane comes in close to its terminal velocity (recordings on the street indicate HIGH POWER settings on the engines), pulling a bank angle and at least 2G as it tightens up in order to NOT MISS the tower. The wings of the aircraft were curved by the load. I'll bet you can see UP elevator as it hits...
It hits at a 40 deg angle, slicing airways through two floors, interconnecting the three volumes of three floors. All insulation, light walling, and windows disintegrate in the internal blast (certainly in the central floor), and thirty-five tons of kerosine immediately ignites everything, blowing out of NEARLY ALL window spaces. That blast reached down the liftshafts to the foyer.
The prevailing wind then takes hold. Fires hold on all three floors, but the smoke blows leftward.
I see, you think the brothers painted that black line in. It would have been a bit of a lucky guess, then, wouldn't it, with their FUZZY IMAGE, to paint a line exactly coincident with a CEILING LINE?
Soot stains on the windward side of the external steel will disappear as the steel heats up. Soot oxidises to CO2 by the time 400 deg C is reached.
The fire migrates upwards through the chimney of the liftshafts and stairwells.
Say half an hour later the lower floors were burned out and cooling down in the ferocious updraft rising through the impact hole.
Her only hope was to make her way down the stairwell, but unfortunately fire-damaged buildings are SO matt black, absorbing all the light inside them, that it would have been virtually impossible for her to see where she was going, even if the going had been good...

Once again I have answered two of your questions, yet you haven't answered mine. Namely, what does the HOLE look like? How was THAT made?

Conspiracy theorists all exhibit the weaknesses of ignoring the BODY of the evidence for "detail in the noise", when NOISE IS NATURALLY RANDOM, and they also cannot deal with coincidence, which happens all the time, and everywhere...
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08-25-2010, 01:16 AM,
#9
RE: September Clues Addendum Chapter 1
"concave,next"

the under carriage has been lifted up through the carriage floor too.
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08-25-2010, 01:33 AM,
#10
RE: September Clues Addendum Chapter 1
(08-25-2010, 01:16 AM)nik Wrote: "concave, next" - the undercarriage has been lifted up through the carriage floor too.
Or the carriage has dropped on its suspension. Why wouldn't it do that?
A concavity to the floor suggests a bomb ABOVE. Blown-out windows corroborate. Don't pick forensics for a career.

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08-25-2010, 01:34 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-25-2010, 03:05 AM by nik.)
#11
RE: September Clues Addendum Chapter 1
i'm not going to have guilt for someones apparent inescapable death subtely tarred to me. delineating the shape of the hole has naught to do with the images of a helpless woman in it's maw.

It's ridiculous to come here and be barracked with so much venom that is so readily appearing as I am sure that woman did discover,life is too short.
(08-25-2010, 01:33 AM)JazzRoc Wrote:
(08-25-2010, 01:16 AM)nik Wrote: "concave, next" - the undercarriage has been lifted up through the carriage floor too.
Or the carriage has dropped on its suspension. Why wouldn't it do that?
A concavity to the floor suggests a bomb ABOVE. Blown-out windows corroborate. Don't pick forensics for a career.


No, although it ostensibly looks concave actually with a closer scrutiny it looks like the floor is more rippled, perhaps from a wave, with a slight concertina as well near the huge gash made by the undercarriage which appears to have been slammed up and gorged through the floor in right to left direction rather than being "rested upon" or whatever. Thanks for the advice.



Not to dwell even on the relative strengths of military grade explosives as comparative to homemade nail bombs when tackling the structural steel of a tube train.

and taken out all wrapped up ("to save the public from the sight") on it's rapid and immediate way to the scrapyard.
There's only one Eric Blair but not many seem to be hearing [i]his[i/] words of advice

"concave.next!" pfft

The lack of temperature of homemade gas propellant nail bombs -- which have a signature of rapid massive expansion of gas without heat more or less much unlike semtex or C4 etc ? and the many survivors who suffered major burn injuries ... ie. from heat. Is it not so? Do crude home made gas propellant nail bombs made from empty plastic litre pop bottles have such ferocious thermal and kinetic energy, brute force to twist steel, when set off? to make such structural damage and such specific physical injury? I am sure you will say, yes.

I am supposing that in the relative vacuum of a tube tunnel all the windows would have been fine if C4 or some other such were previously planted under the trains and then detonated?

And then there is the "even if" of a homemade nail box going off around about the same time in the carriage...but that seems to not enter into the expansive forensic minds of man look to the the blown out windows not the twisted steel!!, they say, is beyond the scope of Occam's brothel where the easiest solutions are eagerly pleased or they are otherwise too busy distracted from the more obvious questions with choosing the right put down in attempts to seal their deal.

I trust sooner or later you'll follow your own advice.




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08-25-2010, 08:19 AM,
#12
RE: September Clues Addendum Chapter 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiHeCjZlkr8&feature=player_embedded

"The official story is that the North Tower of the World Trade Center collapsed due to gravity. This has been critiqued in an analysis by Graeme MacQueen and Tony Szamboti, and in a related analysis by David Chandler (both in the Journal of 9/11 Studies). The Balzac-Vitry demolition was a true gravity-driven collapse. The same analysis that was applied to the World Trade Center is here applied to this known demolition, with contrasting results. This analysis supports the conclusions of both papers referred to above: the North Tower of the World Trade Center was not a natural, gravity-driven collapse."
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08-25-2010, 10:36 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-25-2010, 10:49 AM by crystal.)
#13
RE: September Clues Addendum Chapter 1
If there were no planes, then theres no excuse for blaming terrorists, having a long drawn up islamaphobia plan, attack iraq, iran and introduce a new world of fear and distrust and limited human rights for all.

But the steel looks bent the wrong way and besides they found one of the pilots flying manuals and passport at the scene of the crime amongst the dust so it must be so.
Dodgy

7/7 official story doesnt add up either.
There were lots of testominies to the explosions coming from under the floor of the bus.
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08-25-2010, 11:30 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-25-2010, 02:54 PM by JazzRoc.)
#14
RE: September Clues Addendum Chapter 1
(08-25-2010, 01:34 AM)nik Wrote: i'm not going to have guilt for someones apparent inescapable death subtly tarred to me. delineating the shape of the hole has naught to do with the images of a helpless woman in it's maw.
I'm quite aware of that. Those deaths were tarred to all of us.
Quote:It's ridiculous to come here and be barracked with so much venom that is so readily appearing as I am sure that woman did discover, life is too short.
I DO hope that isn't addressed to me, for I have taken great care to avoid doing just that. If you read back you won't find me "barracking".
Quote:No, although it ostensibly looks concave actually with a closer scrutiny it looks like the floor is more rippled, perhaps from a wave, with a slight concertina as well near the huge gash made by the undercarriage which appears to have been slammed up and gorged through the floor in right to left direction rather than being "rested upon" or whatever.
It is a seating area without any seats. Where are the seats?
If the explosion took place BENEATH the carriage, wouldn't the seats REMAIN roughly where they were before? You'd see at least a single seat squab somehere?
Whereas if we're looking at the focus of the explosion, the LAST thing you'd expect to see is a seat squab within your frame.
Quote:Thanks for the advice.
You're welcome.
Quote:Not to dwell even on the relative strengths of military grade explosives as comparative to homemade nail bombs when tackling the structural steel of a tube train.
The bomb was WHAT, exactly?
Quote:The lack of temperature of homemade gas propellant nail bombs -- which have a signature of rapid massive expansion of gas without heat more or less much unlike semtex or C4 etc ? and the many survivors who suffered major burn injuries ... ie. from heat. Is it not so? Do crude home made gas propellant nail bombs made from empty plastic litre pop bottles have such ferocious thermal and kinetic energy, brute force to twist steel, when set off? to make such structural damage and such specific physical injury? I am sure you will say, yes.
Not if what you say is true. The expansion would blow out the windows in either case. There was no glass on the floor, either, come to think of it. There would have been if the explosion were underneath.
Quote:I am supposing that in the relative vacuum of a tube tunnel all the windows would have been fine if C4 or some other such were previously planted under the trains and then detonated?
There is NO "relative" vacuum in a tube system. It wouldn't make a lot of difference: blast effects in a tube will be "magnified" by the division of the surface area of a larger sphere by the surface area of a smaller cylinder.
Quote:And then there is the "even if" of a homemade nail box going off around about the same time in the carriage
Really?
Quote:...but that seems to not enter into the expansive forensic minds of man look to the the blown out windows
Explosion inside...
Quote:not the twisted steel!!, they say, is beyond the scope of Occam's brothel where the easiest solutions are eagerly pleased or they are otherwise too busy distracted from the more obvious questions with choosing the right put down in attempts to seal their deal.
Enough of the irony...
Quote:I trust sooner or later you'll follow your own advice.

"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!"


The Jabberwock, Jubjub and Bandersnatch seem to have you in their thrall. Me, I listened to my Dad, and avoided them.



Yes, the image-forgers, so incompetent in their image manipulation, yet they managed a PERFECT SEISMOGRAM and a PERFECT VIBRATING BUILDING...
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08-25-2010, 03:03 PM, (This post was last modified: 08-25-2010, 03:27 PM by JazzRoc.)
#15
RE: September Clues Addendum Chapter 1
(08-25-2010, 10:36 AM)crystal Wrote: If there were no planes, then theres no excuse for blaming terrorists, having a long drawn up islamaphobia plan, attack iraq, iran and introduce a new world of fear and distrust and limited human rights for all.
The WTC was attacked by terrorists six years previously. There WAS an excuse.
Quote:But the steel looks bent the wrong way
So explain how that was possible without using a plane to do it.
Quote:and besides they found one of the pilot's flying manuals and passport at the scene of the crime amongst the dust so it must be so. Dodgy
I thought they fluttered down to the street. Paper not subject to fire may well survive the rapid deceleration of such a plane crash. It has little mass and hence little inertia, coupled with a high air resistance.
Quote:7/7 official story doesnt add up either. There were lots of testimonies to the explosions coming from under the floor of the bus.
In a station or a tunnel, sound reflects off the walls and our binaural senses are easily confused. "Earwitnesses" are as reliable as "eyewitnesses".
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