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Left-Leaning Despisers of the 9/11 Truth Movement: Do You Really Believe in Miracles?
09-08-2010, 03:25 PM, (This post was last modified: 09-08-2010, 04:53 PM by JazzRoc.)
#61
RE: Left-Leaning Despisers of the 9/11 Truth Movement: Do You Really Believe in Miracles?
(09-06-2010, 08:33 PM)rsol Wrote: Im sorry but up with this i will not put. aluminium? where? what? from the building?
I've seen stills and video of it pouring out. Can't recall which tower.
Quote:you are the great expert in hitting hot metal as you contend. can you tell me how hot you needed to get aluminium before it glowed red?
ALL materials glow the same color at the same temperature. Aluminum melts at 660 deg C, but in general you run to 800 - 1000 deg C or so. You don't want it cooling in the mold sprues.




Quote:did you have much experience with aluminium?
Making and fixing pieces of boats, cars, aircraft, yes. I have cast it. It glows a dark red at pour.
I've had some difficult times welding it. It is necessary to conduct the heat away from the weld site at a greater speed than you apply it.
Working dural sheet is in some ways quite like working aluminum as you form it, but more like steel when it is finished with (after heat treatment). It is hard and tough.
It is very irritating to have fools liken the 767's structure to an aluminum beer can, and make statements like "if they made aircraft strong enough, they would be too heavy to fly".

Quote:btw i think your spellchecker is in american.
Don't use them. I'm mid-Atlantic...
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09-08-2010, 04:59 PM,
#62
RE: Left-Leaning Despisers of the 9/11 Truth Movement: Do You Really Believe in Miracles?
There is but one problem with your premise jazzrock...

Aluminum begins flowing long before it begins glowing.

Why did we not see an aluminum colored flow instead of a red one ?
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09-09-2010, 05:04 PM, (This post was last modified: 09-09-2010, 05:45 PM by rsol.)
#63
RE: Left-Leaning Despisers of the 9/11 Truth Movement: Do You Really Believe in Miracles?
Quote:I've seen stills and video of it pouring out. Can't recall which tower.

Twas wtc2 about a minute before it goes.

Yes you saw some glowing metal. did you read underneath on your debunking site it was aluminium or did you deduce this from the picture?


one more point. you know that all metals glow at the same temp..... so what colour was the molten metal seeping out of the building and staying that colour after being air cooled alllllllll the way down? Please take into account the brightness balances on the cameras. i use the reflection of the sun from the building as a good calibration point.


By the way on that video the aluminium only glows when chunks of it face the heat source. Id also like to ask have you EVER made aluminium hot enough to go red/yellow?
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09-09-2010, 09:53 PM, (This post was last modified: 09-15-2010, 11:00 PM by JazzRoc.)
#64
RE: Left-Leaning Despisers of the 9/11 Truth Movement: Do You Really Believe in Miracles?
(09-08-2010, 04:59 PM)JFK Wrote: There is but one problem with your premise jazzroc...
It wasn't a premise.

Quote:Aluminum begins flowing long before it begins glowing.
But WHEN its glowing it still keeps flowing. I worked with it MANY times, and you can ALMOST see the red as it melts, and when you're casting it it is normally glowing dull red, as I said before, because you don't want it freezing in the sprues.

Quote:Why did we not see an aluminum colored flow instead of a red one?
Because there was nobody in the building saying "time to pour".
If liquid aluminum has its temperature raised by fire it will GLOW.
Try and beome sensible, if it's at all possible.

(09-09-2010, 05:04 PM)rsol Wrote: Yes you saw some glowing metal. did you read underneath on your debunking site it was aluminium or did you deduce this from the picture?
There is no other liquid it coukd have been other than dural.

Quote:one more point. you know that all metals glow at the same temp..... so what colour was the molten metal seeping out of the building and staying that colour after being air cooled alllllllll the way down? Please take into account the brightness balances on the cameras. i use the reflection of the sun from the building as a good calibration point.
Around 1000 C.

Quote:By the way on that video the aluminium only glows when chunks of it face the heat source. Id also like to ask have you EVER made aluminium hot enough to go red/yellow?
Yes.
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09-09-2010, 10:06 PM,
#65
RE: Left-Leaning Despisers of the 9/11 Truth Movement: Do You Really Believe in Miracles?
Obviously you totally missed my points jazzrock... and frankly you are not worth argueing with.
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09-09-2010, 10:09 PM,
#66
RE: Left-Leaning Despisers of the 9/11 Truth Movement: Do You Really Believe in Miracles?
(09-09-2010, 10:06 PM)JFK Wrote: Obviously you totally missed my points jazzroc... and frankly you are not worth arguing with.
What points were those?
Learn to spell.

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09-09-2010, 10:14 PM,
#67
RE: Left-Leaning Despisers of the 9/11 Truth Movement: Do You Really Believe in Mirac
(09-09-2010, 10:09 PM)JazzRoc Wrote:
(09-09-2010, 10:06 PM)JFK Wrote: Obviously you totally missed my points jazzroc... and frankly you are not worth arguing with.
What points were those?
Learn to spell.
and frankly you are not worth arguing with.
fuck off.

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09-09-2010, 10:45 PM, (This post was last modified: 09-09-2010, 11:00 PM by rsol.)
#68
RE: Left-Leaning Despisers of the 9/11 Truth Movement: Do You Really Believe in Miracles?
Quote: Yes you saw some glowing metal. did you read underneath on your debunking site it was aluminium or did you deduce this from the picture?

There is no other liquid it coukd have been other than dural.

please dont pick on members spelling jazz its a bitch when it bites you too.

That is one of the loosest things ive read from you jazz. Why do you heat up aluminium extra hot?

Quote:Around 1000 C.

is not a colour.
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09-11-2010, 05:26 PM,
#69
RE: Left-Leaning Despisers of the 9/11 Truth Movement: Do You Really Believe in Miracles?


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09-13-2010, 03:18 PM, (This post was last modified: 09-13-2010, 03:25 PM by JazzRoc.)
#70
RE: Left-Leaning Despisers of the 9/11 Truth Movement: Do You Really Believe in Miracles?
(09-09-2010, 10:45 PM)rsol Wrote: Why do you heat up aluminium extra hot?
To make sure it doesn't freeze in the sprues and fills the mold.

Quote:Around 1000 C. is not a colour.
Is DULL RED.

Low-temperature iron eutectic alloys can form at lower temperatures than 1536 deg C, which is the melting point of pure iron.

The material pouring out from the building was some of the of the 200,000 lb of dural from the aircraft. It's obviously hotter than its melting point and had pooled and heated before the supporting floor trusses gave way and allowed the material to pour away out of the building.

Any steelwork at that temperature would no longer be supporting that building.

"Molten" material in the basement was very much more likely to be a eutectic of all the materials present. The potential energy to heat it up had already been released, and in essence the basement WAS a muffle furnace.

Microspherules are NORMALLY produced by large collision events (each tower had TWO - the plane impact and the subsequent collapse to the street). Aluminum is in concrete and the airplane, iron is in the steel and its paintwork, and sulfur is in Gyproc.

The RED material in the dust WAS the paint primer for the steel.

It's isn't me that's lying.

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09-13-2010, 03:22 PM, (This post was last modified: 09-13-2010, 03:31 PM by JFK.)
#71
RE: Left-Leaning Despisers of the 9/11 Truth Movement: Do You Really Believe in Miracles?
So what fed the extra oxygen into the fires to raise the temp that high ?

Edit to add - You need to read the paper titled "Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade
Center Catastrophe" written by
Niels H. Harrit*, 1,
Jeffrey Farrer 2,
Steven E. Jones*,3,
Kevin R. Ryan4,
Frank M. Legge 5,
Daniel Farnsworth 2,
Gregg Roberts 6,
James R. Gourley 7
and Bradley R. Larsen 3

1 Department of Chemistry, University of Copenhagen, Denmark
2 Department of Physics and Astronomy, Brigham Young University, Provo, UT 84602, USA
3 S&J Scientific Co., Provo, UT, 84606, USA
4 9/11 Working Group of Bloomington, Bloomington, IN 47401, USA
5 Logical Systems Consulting, Perth, Western Australia
6 Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth, Berkeley, CA 94704, USA
7 International Center for 9/11 Studies, Dallas, TX 75231, USA

Or are you accusing them of being liars also ?
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09-13-2010, 03:29 PM,
#72
RE: Left-Leaning Despisers of the 9/11 Truth Movement: Do You Really Believe in Miracles?
(09-13-2010, 03:22 PM)JFK Wrote: So what fed the extra oxygen into the fires to raise the temp that high?
Gravity.
WTC1 was a seventy-foot "chimney", and WTC2 about two-thirds that.
Do you know about chimneys, buoyancy, and gravity? I HOPE SO.

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09-13-2010, 03:38 PM,
#73
RE: Left-Leaning Despisers of the 9/11 Truth Movement: Do You Really Believe in Miracles?
Yeah, I know about chimneys... Are you implying that the WTC was a chimney ?

If so, you know nothing about their construction or the 3 seperate segments which were practically hermetically sealed from each other each with it's own environmental controls.

Shall I dig out the photos I have of the mechanical floors where these were located ?
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09-13-2010, 03:44 PM, (This post was last modified: 09-13-2010, 03:45 PM by JazzRoc.)
#74
RE: Left-Leaning Despisers of the 9/11 Truth Movement: Do You Really Believe in Miracles?
(09-13-2010, 03:38 PM)JFK Wrote: Yeah, I know about chimneys... Are you implying that the WTC was a chimney?
It was as soon as it blew out the windows on six floors, and opened up a conducting hole between each floor by blowing out the stairwell AND LIFT partitions.
That it also cut holes between floors as well rather over-egged the pudding.

Quote:If so, you know nothing about their construction or the 3 seperate segments which were practically hermetically sealed from each other each with it's own environmental controls.
IRRELEVANT.

Quote:Shall I dig out the photos I have of the mechanical floors where these were located?
NO.
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09-13-2010, 03:49 PM, (This post was last modified: 09-13-2010, 03:59 PM by JFK.)
#75
RE: Left-Leaning Despisers of the 9/11 Truth Movement: Do You Really Believe in Miracles?
LOL... with the exception of the 2 express elevator shafts ( which happened to be opposite of the impact sides ), the rest were "compartmentalized" to within each of the 3 segments of the towers seperated by the mechanical floors.

Dismissing the relevant as irrelevant as usual, eh ?

Afraid ?
Another paper you may want to read is titled "Enhancing the rate of energy release from nanoenergetic materials by electrostatically enhanced assembly" by Soo H. Kim and Michael R. Zachariah.

Alqaeda did not have access to the equipment required for that.
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