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Schwarzenegger: High Time for Marijuana Debate
05-06-2009, 02:23 AM,
#1
Schwarzenegger: High Time for Marijuana Debate
Schwarzenegger: High Time for Marijuana Debate

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said Tuesday that California should study other nations' experiences in legalizing and taxing marijuana, although he is not supporting the idea.

Schwarzenegger Open to Debate on Legalizing, Taxing Pot

He said it's time to debate proposals such as a bill introduced in the state Legislature earlier this year that would treat marijuana like alcohol.

At a news conference about public safety funding, the governor was asked whether it's time to legalize marijuana in light of a new Field Poll that said 56 percent of registered voters support legalizing and taxing marijuana to raise revenues.

"I think it's not time for that, but I think it's time for debate," Schwarzenegger said. "All those ideas of creating extra revenues, I'm always for an open debate on it. We ought to study very carefully what other countries are doing that have legalized marijuana. What effect did it have on those countries? Are they happy with the decision? Or are they, for instance in Austria, unhappy? They rolled back some of the decisions that were made in European countries.

"I want to look at all that. It could very well be that everyone is happy with the decision and then we can look at that. If not, then we shouldn't do it. Just because of raising revenues, we have to be careful not to make mistakes at the same time."

State Assemblyman Tom Ammiano, a San Francisco Democrat, said taxing marijuana at $50 per ounce would bring more than $1 billion a year to the state. Ammiano's bill is on hold in the state Legislature. He delayed seeking approval until next year.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Ar...galization.html
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05-06-2009, 02:38 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-06-2009, 02:39 AM by Melchor.)
#2
Schwarzenegger: High Time for Marijuana Debate
Quote:State Assemblyman Tom Ammiano, a San Francisco Democrat, said taxing marijuana at $50 per ounce would bring more than $1 billion a year to the state. Ammiano's bill is on hold in the state Legislature. He delayed seeking approval until next year.

$50 an ounce? Apparently the assemblyman is under the impression that it's already legal and his shit is laced with some heavy stuff because he is blazed out of his mind.
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05-06-2009, 05:20 AM,
#3
Schwarzenegger: High Time for Marijuana Debate
How much does an ounce of decent grade fetch in California nowadays?
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05-06-2009, 06:15 AM,
#4
Schwarzenegger: High Time for Marijuana Debate
A oz of mid in TX was $45-50 and it was usually heavy. in TN now an oz is $125.

CA prices:
Quote:San Francisco Marijuana Prices:

Less than 1/8 oz: It is hard to find small bags here. Dealers will usually moan about busting up a bag for $20 or less, and you will usually get very little for your money.

1/8 oz: Asking prices start at $60. These size bags are almost always underweighed and need to be checked closely before purchase.

1/4 oz: Prices start at $110 - $120. Bring a small digital scale. At this size dealers are almost always willing to come down a bit. Less dense buds and poorer quality strains can be haggled to $90 or so. Good quality is easy to find, but you usually pay a slight premium.

1 oz: This quantity is harder to find from the street dealers. If you ask, they can probably get it for you without much difficulty. Just be prepared to wait around for a while. I don\'t recommand driving any dealer anywhere or going too far away from the area for the promise of getting the size bag you want. Play it safe, and let them give you a phone number or something so you can contact each other when they've got it in hand. Prices at this weight are negotiable, usually around $400 to start and down from there.

One of the nice things about Haight Street is that you can get larger quantities of cannabis rather easily. Just ask, and you can get a deal for whatever you want.


Another reporter added: "This is the highest dope on the street I have ever seen. You can get $20/gram IF YOU ARE LUCKY. The weed is as strong as it gets, you are likely to pass out if you smoke like you do at home, unless you are Capt. Chronic or something."

and also: "Weed is generally pretty expensive, but GOOD here. Most dealers will offer about 60 and 8th, but I have been able to talk them down to 40. Check out the weed beforehand, make sure it's good, (it usually is) and don't be afraid to bargain. "


and also: " I lived in California for 23 years and made several trips to Norcal. Never did I encounter prices as high as you\'re talking here in SF, Oakland, San Jose or surrounding areas. Maybe some suburbs with money (eg Los Gatos) on the weight, but never paid more than $50 for an eight (often slightly less) or $100 for a quarter (almost always 80 or 90 bucks).

A lotta cats "got them purps" and if they are shorting the sack (probably if you meet them on the street) that also means they will take less if you bargain. They are like ticket scalpers."

and: "Weed is not cheap in Northern Caliornia. On the east coast you can get 2.2 grams of midis(medium grade weed) for 10 dollars. In the San Jose, SanFran, Oakland, Sacramento area a ten sack(if you can find one in San Francisco) will probably be .6 or less if these people try to scheme you. I\'m sorry I don\'t remember what the amount is but mostly the lowest the hippies try to sell with you is 60 dollars. I think for an eighth is how much it cost. But don\'t be afraid to bargin with these people, they useually just want money for crack or for food. And the marijuana here is pure marijuana and not laced with anything else so do not worry about that if you are."

Average prices according to Clint:

Quote:AVERAGE PRICES
These are approximate average prices of weed in the USA, with some variations in different states (see below).
Lows (schwag/crappy weed):
dime-$10
dub bag-$15
eighth-$25
quarter-$40
half ounce.-$75
ounce-$100
QP-$400
half pound-$800
pound-$1200

Mids (ok weed/regular):
dime-$10
dub bag-$20
eighth-$30
quarter-$50
half ounce.-$100
ounce-$150
QP-$550
Half Pound-$1000
Pound-$1500

Highs (good weed/exotic):
dime-$15
dub bag-$25
eighth-$40
quarter-$80
half ounce-$150
ounce-$250
QP-$700
Half Pound-$1500
Pound-$3000

STATES
Prices vary depending on consumer proximity to the Mexican Border, with the exception of California where weed is pretty steep. This means that southern states enjoy lower prices than the northeast and the midwest. This is what they call Southern Comfort...

*
The cheapest state in almost all categories is definitely, and unsurprisingly, Texas. Prices for an ounce of Schwag (Mexican dirt weed) go as low as $40, an ounce of skunk - $65, and an ounce of hydro could be around $100 - compared to $300-400 in many other states.
*
New Mexico is also very cheap ($60 1oz schwag).
*
Some of the more expensive states are Illinois, Indiana, Massachussetts and New Hampshire.
*
In New York City, Many types of weed are available, particularly highs such as hydros, skunks, diesels and also hashes. Price depends on the quality and usually well worth the investment.

They all seem to be about right from my experience.
“Today’s scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after
equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. ” -Nikola Tesla

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." -Jimi Hendrix
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05-06-2009, 06:46 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-06-2009, 06:47 AM by Melchor.)
#5
Schwarzenegger: High Time for Marijuana Debate
50 dollars an ounce is ridiculous. I know that's ridiculously cheap in black market prices. But if they legalize it most people will just grow their own. There's no way it fetches that price without being black market. They call it weed for a reason. Anyone can grow it without even really trying because that's what weeds do. It grows anywhere. All that aside it isn't clear to me whether he's referring to the price of the weed or the price of the tax. Either way he's on something.
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05-06-2009, 06:47 AM,
#6
Schwarzenegger: High Time for Marijuana Debate
Thanks for that:DKinda wish I hadn't asked now as I'm gagging for a spliff after reading it and have nada:(lol
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05-06-2009, 06:49 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-06-2009, 06:50 AM by ---.)
#7
Schwarzenegger: High Time for Marijuana Debate
Quote:50 dollars an ounce is ridiculous. I know that's ridiculously cheap in black market prices. But if they legalize it most people will just grow their own. There's no way it fetches that price without being black market. They call it weed for a reason. Anyone can grow it without even really trying because that's what weeds do. It grows anywhere. All that aside it isn't clear to me whether he's referring to the price of the weed or the price of the tax. Either way he's on something.

I read it as a $50 tax added on top...

it'll grow in quite rough conditions as long as the minimum of its needs are met but it needs some TLC to get a good smoke and a worthwhile yield.
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05-06-2009, 07:04 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-06-2009, 08:18 AM by psilocybin.)
#8
Schwarzenegger: High Time for Marijuana Debate
Average Price for Headies is between 40-70 an eighth... eighth of an ounce.

50 dollars would be hovering around the 20% mark.

With the ability to grow legally and mass produce more, I could see this tax barley effecting the "street" price of today.
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05-06-2009, 08:54 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-06-2009, 08:55 AM by Hans Olo.)
#9
Schwarzenegger: High Time for Marijuana Debate
Arnold is never, never, ever gonna legalize pot. Read my lips. N-E-V-E-R!
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05-06-2009, 10:17 AM,
#10
Schwarzenegger: High Time for Marijuana Debate

1 ounce = 28.3495231 grams

if an ounce of high grade is 250 - 400 $
that makes it about 180 - 300 in euros..

If you know people that grow in semi/legal Holland,
which a lot of peope who smoke tend to do,..
i think you´ll pay about half , or less,
120 euro´s gets me 30 grams.
if i were to take my money to a coffeeshop,
which pays taxes and has to make profit to pay rent etc,.
30 grams of high grade would cost me 200-250 euro´s...
hash would be slightly more.
depending on if the guy is willing to sell more than 5 grams in a deal,
that is a law ,.. 5 grams a customer, a visit,.. or i could walk in and out 6 times.


If Thine I that I spy with my own little I Doeth Offend thee ; Pluck It out.

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05-07-2009, 12:04 AM,
#11
Schwarzenegger: High Time for Marijuana Debate
http://www.time. com/time/ health/article/ 0%2C8599% 2C1893946% 2C00.html? xid=rss-topstori es

Drugs in Portugal: Did Decriminalization Work?
By Maia Szalavitz Sunday, Apr. 26, 2009

Although its capital is notorious among stoners and college kids for marijuana haze–filled "coffee shops," Holland has never actually legalized cannabis — the Dutch simply don't enforce their laws against the shops. The correct answer is Portugal, which in 2001 became the first European country to officially abolish all criminal penalties for personal possession of drugs, including marijuana, cocaine, heroin and methamphetamine.

At the recommendation of a national commission charged with addressing Portugal's drug problem, jail time was replaced with the offer of therapy. The argument was that the fear of prison drives addicts underground and that incarceration is more expensive than treatment — so why not give drug addicts health services instead? Under Portugal's new regime, people found guilty of possessing small amounts of drugs are sent to a panel consisting of a psychologist, social worker and legal adviser for appropriate treatment (which may be refused without criminal punishment), instead of jail.

See the world's most influential people in the 2009 TIME 100.

The question is, does the new policy work? At the time, critics in the poor, socially conservative and largely Catholic nation said decriminalizing drug possession would open the country to "drug tourists" and exacerbate Portugal's drug problem; the country had some of the highest levels of hard-drug use in Europe. But the recently released results of a report commissioned by the Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank, suggest otherwise.

The paper, published by Cato in April, found that in the five years after personal possession was decriminalized, illegal drug use among teens in Portugal declined and rates of new HIV infections caused by sharing of dirty needles dropped, while the number of people seeking treatment for drug addiction more than doubled.

"Judging by every metric, decriminalization in Portugal has been a resounding success," says Glenn Greenwald, an attorney, author and fluent Portuguese speaker, who conducted the research. "It has enabled the Portuguese government to manage and control the drug problem far better than virtually every other Western country does."

Compared to the European Union and the U.S., Portugal's drug use numbers are impressive. Following decriminalization, Portugal had the lowest rate of lifetime marijuana use in people over 15 in the E.U.: 10%. The most comparable figure in America is in people over 12: 39.8%. Proportionally, more Americans have used cocaine than Portuguese have used marijuana.

The Cato paper reports that between 2001 and 2006 in Portugal, rates of lifetime use of any illegal drug among seventh through ninth graders fell from 14.1% to 10.6%; drug use in older teens also declined. Lifetime heroin use among 16-to-18-year- olds fell from 2.5% to 1.8% (although there was a slight increase in marijuana use in that age group). New HIV infections in drug users fell by 17% between 1999 and 2003, and deaths related to heroin and similar drugs were cut by more than half. In addition, the number of people on methadone and buprenorphine treatment for drug addiction rose to 14,877 from 6,040, after decriminalization, and money saved on enforcement allowed for increased funding of drug-free treatment as well.

Portugal's case study is of some interest to lawmakers in the U.S., confronted now with the violent overflow of escalating drug gang wars in Mexico. The U.S. has long championed a hard-line drug policy, supporting only international agreements that enforce drug prohibition and imposing on its citizens some of the world's harshest penalties for drug possession and sales. Yet America has the highest rates of cocaine and marijuana use in the world, and while most of the E.U. (including Holland) has more liberal drug laws than the U.S., it also has less drug use.

"I think we can learn that we should stop being reflexively opposed when someone else does [decriminalize] and should take seriously the possibility that anti-user enforcement isn't having much influence on our drug consumption, " says Mark Kleiman, author of the forthcoming When Brute Force Fails: How to Have Less Crime and Less Punishment and director of the drug policy analysis program at UCLA. Kleiman does not consider Portugal a realistic model for the U.S., however, because of differences in size and culture between the two countries.

But there is a movement afoot in the U.S., in the legislatures of New York State, California and Massachusetts, to reconsider our overly punitive drug laws. Recently, Senators Jim Webb and Arlen Specter proposed that Congress create a national commission, not unlike Portugal's, to deal with prison reform and overhaul drug-sentencing policy. As Webb noted, the U.S. is home to 5% of the global population but 25% of its prisoners.

At the Cato Institute in early April, Greenwald contended that a major problem with most American drug policy debate is that it's based on "speculation and fear mongering," rather than empirical evidence on the effects of more lenient drug policies. In Portugal, the effect was to neutralize what had become the country's number one public health problem, he says.

"The impact in the life of families and our society is much lower than it was before decriminalization, " says Joao Castel-Branco Goulao, Portugual's "drug czar" and president of the Institute on Drugs and Drug Addiction, adding that police are now able to re-focus on tracking much higher level dealers and larger quantities of drugs.

Peter Reuter, a professor of criminology and public policy at the University of Maryland, like Kleiman, is skeptical. He conceded in a presentation at the Cato Institute that "it's fair to say that decriminalization in Portugal has met its central goal. Drug use did not rise." However, he notes that Portugal is a small country and that the cyclical nature of drug epidemics — which tends to occur no matter what policies are in place — may account for the declines in heroin use and deaths.

The Cato report's author, Greenwald, hews to the first point: that the data shows that decriminalization does not result in increased drug use. Since that is what concerns the public and policymakers most about decriminalization, he says, "that is the central concession that will transform the debate."
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05-08-2009, 02:15 AM,
#12
Schwarzenegger: High Time for Marijuana Debate
Interesting article, nik. Thanks for that.
“Today’s scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after
equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. ” -Nikola Tesla

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." -Jimi Hendrix
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05-08-2009, 02:27 AM,
#13
Schwarzenegger: High Time for Marijuana Debate
np:)
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05-08-2009, 03:11 PM,
#14
Schwarzenegger: High Time for Marijuana Debate
Quote:Interesting article, nik. Thanks for that.

I second that.

Last time I was in Portugal was about 2002. Its been a long while, I need to get back over there for a visit...but anyway...I couldnt find any buds when I was there.
It wasnt decriminalized yet so it was virtually non-existent. I was with my parents at the time, they were at the hotel, and it was getting late so I took a walk. I came across some club/bar while walking around the city I was in one night. After I had made it known I was looking for some weed, one of the guys I was talking to looked at me like I had 2 heads. I was told that it was next to impossible to find because of all the heavy fines and penalties.
But there was a light at the end of the tunnel
One of the guys I met there spoke english once he realized I was American.
"Marijuana?, no not in Portugal...just Hash."
:freaked:
That was fine with me...I had little experience with hash and he actually had some!! It was the 1st time I smoked some Moroccan.
I guess now they probably have a demand for it, I cant wait to get back there and see what kind of bud is around.
"Listen to everyone, read everything, believe nothing unless you can prove it in your own research"
~William Cooper

DTTNWO!
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