Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
'This is not intelligent design'
07-13-2010, 05:28 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-13-2010, 11:19 PM by Deathaniel.)
#31
RE: 'This is not intelligent design'
Well nik is on the right path re how were not as advanced today as we have been in the past.

as for you (Jazz) not understanding what i'm saying.... hummm not sure how to respond to thatUndecided, read my posts i sprinkle in several keys and other then fast tad none here seem to be into the know of how shit was only into the current state of "accepted" (told to you in "there" schools history), or fighting the good fight against those with the agenda to enslave and eliminate the majority of us through various methods, from the financial system to keeping us blind to many of the potentials of humanity. the individual, who mentioned the mushroom, and canibus was onto another part, of what i mentioned.

Et/ aliens, (God if you must call them that) did use some of the life forms already formed here to create us, i can argue both sides of why we wee crested but the evidence is spotty @ best so i do not tire myself as to the why, but i do find the how interesting. but most humans don't Really care where we came from and eat up base ideas of half blind modern science.

the plants that affect us affect us because they were here (or co-created) to have a purpose, some like say shrooms to unlock powers of the mind and of the astral, something animals don't do!!!! but useful to allow humans to move forward not only spiritually, but as a society as some allow us to melt minds with those we "trip" with better understand our fellow human, and improving our ability to reason and spuring on the locked parts of the human mind which hold vast coded in knowledge we have yet to unlock. the gnome is just the beginning, though Personally i feel time is up this cycle so there will be no other colonized planets this time or massive perminant structures that live on to the next cycle say like the pyramids of giza, or the cities in the mountains of South america, cities like mentioned by nik that r formed of stones so large no machine of today could move and set them and not one or 2 in a region but thousands of them.

did these cities just evolve from the soup as well ?

they r just one of many clues left behind not burned or seized by the Vatican and it's allies of mans former glories.

and as for whither i believe we're fully evolved and whither thats vane of me...Dodgy no we're fully evolved, but most of us (sadly including me) r unable to maximize our potential as humans with all the gifts built into our design, some due to lack of training some due to environmental damage, and some from fetal damage, or just pane lack of genes. so currently we r using less then 1/4th of our abilities and brain power, knowing only a small fraction of what humans and our (gods) know now!

As for backing this up and some of the above i suggest you start your research on say yowusa... read von daienken, there is a whole school of new translators of very old writings from the Sumerians ancient Egyptians and the ancient peoples of India, in fact more (north American natives) made it through the end of the last cycle then any other area of the world so read up on there ancient beliefs and stories and a whole new understanding may open up to you, but i suggest you read up fast as by most clocks times almost up!!!!
Remember Knowledge is the only thing THEY can't take from you, and Knowledge is Know how, and Know how is Power!!!

Live long and Prosper!!!! Have a plan beyond words, and worry not of why the storm is coming as to how you're going to survive in it!!!!

Deathanyl @gmail!!!!!!
Reply
07-13-2010, 08:40 AM,
#32
RE: 'This is not intelligent design'
(07-12-2010, 09:25 AM)JazzRoc Wrote:
Quote:Are you saying anything can transform into anything given enough time? Seriously?
You aren't being serious, are you? Evolution NEVER WAS capable of that, nor will it ever be. It NEVER loses its HISTORY. Questions like that cause me to doubt that you are seeing what I see at all. All grist to the mill...

Well, that was YOUR argument. Here's what YOU wrote:

Quote:"Transformation on such a huge scale" merely requires "time on a huge scale".

I think that begs the question:

Quote:Are you saying anything can transform into anything given enough time? Seriously?

So what are you trying to pull here? Please qualify your original argument instead of acting all crazy like I brought it up. What did you mean by that?

Quote:"Transformation on such a huge scale" merely requires "time on a huge scale".

Jeez.
Reply
07-13-2010, 10:29 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-13-2010, 11:24 AM by JazzRoc.)
#33
RE: 'This is not intelligent design'
(07-13-2010, 08:40 AM)Hans Olo Wrote: Well, that was YOUR argument. I think that begs the question:
So what are you trying to pull here? Please qualify your original argument instead of acting all crazy like I brought it up. What did you mean by that?
Sorry. We all share the problem of not knowing the opposite viewpoint here, and there's no way I can cause you to suddenly appreciate what we're trying to cover.
Evolution isn't about EVERY CONCEIVABLE change.
It ratchets forward one POSSIBLE single step mutation (or many separate but parallel POSSIBLE single step mutations) per reproductive event. Or nothing - of course.
The mutation is "frail", in that at that point it occupies a single individual (who might die before breeding). After the next breeding that particular mutation enters the gene pool, and becomes part of the gene population, and its numbers increase. Considering individuals is less useful than considering discrete groups or whole populations.
Evolution is without any forward-looking component, without intentionality. It's a PROCESS. Now some people can "see" processes, others can't.
Evolution ISN'T about "completing" anything - ever - but it HAS geo-engineered this planet from its original hot and poisonous Hadean phase, and is STILL doing so. At ALL times throughout this very long and massively-brutal process, living organisms would have told you (if they could have), that conditions were PERFECT. Before they died...
Evolution responds to changes in conditions brought about by its own workings, as well as to changes in conditions brought about by outside forces in the solar system, so it is no wonder that its rate is variable and unpredictable.
My flights of fancy certainly extend to considering such beginnings elsewhere, on larger or smaller planets at differing distances from differing stars, with DNA-like molecules running a different code, yet similar solutions being found to match environmental conditions, because the logic and physical rules remain the same throughout the universe.
I guess that ALL planets in goldilocks-zones everywhere "pull down" to a blue planet with a resident (and feral) "humanoid" biped, given time.
Ernst Mayr's "What Evolution Is" puts it in a nutshell.
The rather new concept of EMERGENCE demands attention, as it covers the principles of abiogenesis, evolution, and ecosystem stability.
I'm sorry I can't do better with this, but I'm learning too.Smile
(07-13-2010, 03:17 AM)nik Wrote: An honest man, armed with all the knowledge available to us now, could only state that in some sense, the origin of life appears at the moment to be almost a miracle, so many are the conditions which would have had to have been satisfied to get it going.
"Miracle" is NOT a word that describes something in the REAL world, and the real world has many conditions within it.

Quote:The trouble is that there are about two thousand enzymes, and the chance of obtaining them all in a random trial is only one part in (1020)2,000=1040,000, an outrageously small probability that could not be faced even if the whole universe consisted of organic soup. - snip - the entire communications network on Earth.
Those numbers are all over the place. Setting that aside, the universe, and this planet inside it are ORDERED, and NOT RANDOM.
Abiogenesis must have begun with a sufficiency of order, for all life processes are ordered.
Talking about randomness when discussing abiogenesis is like phoning a steamship company for an airline ticket. It's not going to happen...
(07-13-2010, 05:28 AM)Deathanyl Wrote: Well nik is on the right path re how were not ad advanced to dat as we have been in the past.
It's an idle and corrupt argument without evidential basis. Except that evidently there are things you don't understand.

Quote:as for you (Jazz) not understanding what i'm saying
Oh, I do. I'm just not interested in arguing with you. I already have a xxxxx/friend who argues with me that the world and all its lifeforms are going downhill. His brain is a foil-wrapped block of ironwood too. One's enough...
(07-13-2010, 12:15 AM)nik Wrote: try and get Halliburton to shift some 1000 ton blocks around like they used to in what is now called Iraq and they'd be back at the drawing board for quite a while, I imagine
If you search on the web you can find middle-Americans proudly showing you how easy it is to move such massive blocks SINGLEHANDED.
It has ALWAYS been easy, MOST especially if you have tens of thousands of slaves to THINK and PUSH for you, under pain of death.
"You imagine", but you do so in a severely-limited manner. If such "imaginings" are the basis of your world-view, and you haven't had a surprise yet...
Reply
07-13-2010, 10:56 PM, (This post was last modified: 07-13-2010, 11:03 PM by triplesix.)
#34
RE: 'This is not intelligent design'
(07-12-2010, 03:05 PM)JazzRoc Wrote: These theories are demonstrably false because they can each be used to demonstrate the falsity of the other.
You have confused yourself by using "false" when you should have said "incomplete". Is incomplete false?
If we are being critical, there is no almost, or incomplete. If there is a "more right" answer, the currently "less right" answers should perhaps just be called wrong, and we can dispense with the semantics.

(07-12-2010, 03:05 PM)JazzRoc Wrote: Another is the inconsistency in the rate of change of the genetic diversity over time, and the apparent lulls and explosions in "evolution activity" seen throughout time, not attributable to lean or fruitful epochs of the biosphere, or other reasonable explanations.
Yet.
This just really isn't good enough for me. It kind of reminds me of the Rapture from the evangelist crowd. "Jesus hasn't returned... yet." I'm not saying you're wrong, but "yet" is faith, my friend.
&We grow to recognize form. We grow to label that form. In doing so, do we become more intelligent? Do we become more awakened?& - Siji Tzu 四季子
Reply
07-13-2010, 11:36 PM,
#35
RE: 'This is not intelligent design'
[quote jazz]

It has ALWAYS been easy, MOST especially if you have tens of thousands of slaves to THINK and PUSH for you, under pain of death.

[quote/]

hard to do in places where they could not sustain a big enough population, or in high altitudes where trees of proper thickness could be grown. the places in question exist to keep us from falling prey to "we can't do that" and the idea of slave labor is highly irrational... sure it helped build some of the smaller poorly constructed pyramids, and some temples in South America, but all were made after the "gods" had left that gave the original ideas... our current mind think is unable to understand the truth so most r totally blind to it.

As for the stones... out side of anti grav technology the next most plausible would be using the human mind... think jedi. humans have these powers but they have lost the learning on how to develop them. Stone hedge and similar structures in Europe have histories where the shaman's/ druids of the past tell how they could lift massive stones with the mind, and of the powers of several plants that can open up awareness. All knowledge given to us by the aliens most call God... as since they designed us they know how we tick and what we need to develop properly... Those in power now whither under the hand of those who made us (or if as i believe, they r those who were supposed to but neglected to...) want us to develop as per our original design or the one we have now that is limited and much easier to control... i think they the latter.
Remember Knowledge is the only thing THEY can't take from you, and Knowledge is Know how, and Know how is Power!!!

Live long and Prosper!!!! Have a plan beyond words, and worry not of why the storm is coming as to how you're going to survive in it!!!!

Deathanyl @gmail!!!!!!
Reply
07-14-2010, 12:21 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-14-2010, 12:28 AM by ---.)
#36
RE: 'This is not intelligent design'
(07-13-2010, 10:29 AM)JazzRoc Wrote:
(07-13-2010, 03:17 AM)nik Wrote: An honest man, armed with all the knowledge available to us now, could only state that in some sense, the origin of life appears at the moment to be almost a miracle, so many are the conditions which would have had to have been satisfied to get it going.
"Miracle" is NOT a word that describes something in the REAL world, and the real world has many conditions within it.


These are direct quotes from Francis Crick, that he CHOSE to use the specific word "miracle" was undoubtedly intentional.


Quote:The trouble is that there are about two thousand enzymes, and the chance of obtaining them all in a random trial is only one part in (1020)2,000=1040,000, an outrageously small probability that could not be faced even if the whole universe consisted of organic soup. - snip - the entire communications network on Earth.
Those numbers are all over the place. Setting that aside, the universe, and this planet inside it are ORDERED, and NOT RANDOM.
Abiogenesis must have begun with a sufficiency of order, for all life processes are ordered.
Talking about randomness when discussing abiogenesis is like phoning a steamship company for an airline ticket. It's not going to happen...

Bacteria hitch hiking through the universe in stasis until "chancing" upon the extremely intricate and idiosyncratic conditions needed in "order" to propagate sounds random enough.


(07-13-2010, 05:28 AM)Deathanyl Wrote: Well nik is on the right path re how were not ad advanced to dat as we have been in the past.
It's an idle and corrupt argument without evidential basis. Except that evidently there are things you don't understand.

[/quote]

The evidence is there set in stone. I am not entirely sure that you might'nt just be being willfully ignorant for your own amusement.. "lots of slaves did it!" Rolleyes - [Image: mpl_5bk.jpg]
so a scroogle search, Jazz, search for "the coral castle" or "Edward Leedskalnin"-- that is how they did it more probably, I do not believe that "Gordon's Method" of levers and pulleys ..or whichever similar theory ..would everprove sufficient in coping with the transfer and raising of a 137ft Obelisk weighing over 1.5k tons over 9000 years ago. The egoism of modernity simply cripples advances as much as it purports to further them.



(07-13-2010, 10:29 AM)JazzRoc Wrote:
(07-13-2010, 12:15 AM)nik Wrote: try and get Halliburton to shift some 1000 ton blocks around like they used to in what is now called Iraq and they'd be back at the drawing board for quite a while, I imagine
If you search on the web you can find middle-Americans proudly showing you how easy it is to move such massive blocks SINGLEHANDED.

Roger Hopkins and Vince Lee? presumably - well, let's not omit the part where they concluded from their experiments that their theories were not sufficient to explain the rapidity of the building of the great Pyramids.
let's see the same methodology applied to the transport and raising of a 137 ft obelisk weighing in excess of 1 and a half thousand tons using the pertinent materials as academically accepted to have been in use nine thousand years ago .. it's not going to happen because that is not how it was done.


(07-13-2010, 10:29 AM)JazzRoc Wrote: It has ALWAYS been easy, MOST especially if you have tens of thousands of slaves to THINK and PUSH for you, under pain of death.
"You imagine", but you do so in a severely-limited manner. If such "imaginings" are the basis of your world-view, and you haven't had a surprise yet...

Tens of thousands of slaves? Well my "severely limited imagination" is currently trying to conceive of just how densely populated these 9000 years old not as yet built cities must have been to be able to accommodate such vast numbers of slaves in mortal fear - what sort of ratio to the citizenry do you think would have been necessary to keep them from rebelling from their abysmal situation? The host society must also have had some natty agricultural skills to be able to cope with feeding such dense populations --- all this when the city wasn't even built!!

If we make a conservative estimate of around 5 people required per ton using the methodologies you proscribe ( which incidentally have NEVER been able move even anything remotely similar to the kind of weights we are talking about here ) -- so that's conservative estimate of 7000 slaves to move ONE block of around 1400tons - and there was more than likely more than just one single block on the go at any one time - considering it was an entire city being built, so we can possibly assume with some degree of safety that in line with your theory there would have feasibly been far more than just 7000 slaves tasked with this construction...and as I said -- there would have had to have been a significant deterrent in numbers to prevent them from rebelling...that's a lot of food they are going to have needed on a daily basis to keep the city project rolling....you're right, your imagination is much more vivid than mine.

coral castle Smile

correction - Lebanon not Iraq
Reply
07-14-2010, 12:49 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-14-2010, 01:18 AM by JazzRoc.)
#37
RE: 'This is not intelligent design'
Triplesix
These theories are demonstrably false because they can each be used to demonstrate the falsity of the other.
You have confused yourself by using "false" when you should have said "incomplete". Is incomplete false?
I asked you a question which you didn't answer: "Is incomplete false?"

If we are being critical, there is no almost, or incomplete. If there is a "more right" answer, the currently "less right" answers should perhaps just be called wrong, and we can dispense with the semantics.
But you went on to say: "They are, like Orwellian double-think, mutually incompatible but simultaneously accepted." and I responded with: "They aren't therefore AT ALL like that." I didn't think I would HAVE to point out that there TRULY IS a difference between "incomplete" and "false".

And "doublethink" is the POWERFUL ASSERTION of a FALSEHOOD while KNOWING the OPPOSITE to be true. (You might be familiar with that.) As such it is utterly inapplicable to the comparison being made. Such mistakes are easily made when you don't study science and believe in the supernatural.

Deathanyl
Another is the inconsistency in the rate of change of the genetic diversity over time, and the apparent lulls and explosions in "evolution activity" seen throughout time, not attributable to lean or fruitful epochs of the biosphere, or other reasonable explanations.
Yet.
This just really isn't good enough for me. It kind of reminds me of the Rapture from the evangelist crowd. "Jesus hasn't returned... yet." I'm not saying you're wrong, but "yet" is faith, my friend.
The sun is YET to rise tomorrow. You ARE saying I'm wrong, at the same time as implicitly demanding that all there is to be discovered in the future be discovered RIGHT NOW. It'll happen, just as "the sun rising" will happen. And you aren't my friend, are you?

"As the many kinds of flowers grow in the earth near each other, and none contends with the other about color, smell, or taste, but they let the earth and the sun, rain and wind, heat and cold, do what they will with them, while they grow each according to its own nature." - Jakob Bömhe
A nice but incomplete description, ignoring competitiveness and Malthus completely.

It has ALWAYS been easy, MOST especially if you have tens of thousands of slaves to THINK and PUSH for you, under pain of death.
Hard to do in places where they could not sustain a big enough population, or in high altitudes where trees of proper thickness could (not) be grown.
And how sure are you that you know all a nation's activities that existed thousands of years ago? Perhaps they had wagons, ships, a slave trade, an endless supply of bodies. Did you know the Chinese COMPLETELY surveyed the Earth in 1443? They calculated their longitude precisely from solar eclipse tables. Not as quick as a chronometer, but just as effective.

The places in question exist to keep us from falling prey to "we can't do that" and the idea of slave labor is highly irrational... sure it helped build some of the smaller poorly constructed pyramids, and some temples in South America, but all were made after the "gods" had left that gave the original ideas... our current mindthink is unable to understand the truth so most r totally blind to it.
You ARE speaking for yourself here...

As for the stones... outside of antigrav technology the next most plausible would be using the human mind... think jedi. Humans have these powers but they have lost the learning on how to develop them.
If I were you I'd shoot myself. That's not a suggestion. Just what I would do if I were suddenly you.

Stonehenge and similar structures in Europe have histories where the shaman's/druids of the past tell how they could lift massive stones with the mind, and of the powers of several plants that can open up awareness.
Of course. A priest never tells lies.

All knowledge given to us by the aliens most call God... as since they designed us they know how we tick and what we need to develop properly... Those in power now whither under the hand of those who made us (or if as i believe, they r those who were supposed to but neglected to...) want us to develop as per our original design or the one we have now that is limited and much easier to control... i think they the latter. Remember knowledge is the only thing THEY can't take from you, and knowledge is know-how, and know-how is power!
Pssst. Keep it to yourself.

Nik - tomorrow.
Reply
07-14-2010, 01:08 AM,
#38
RE: 'This is not intelligent design'
well, obviously, none of us are a match for the massive intellect and acumen of our super-evolved visitor here, so we should probably all just let him educate us and ask no questions... he's obviously frustrated by explaining the mysteries of science to us, over and over again - you can tell by his condescending tone. maybe if we quietly sit here, let him lecture us, and then ponder silently over those shining bits of knowledge he's offered us for a good long while, he'll be able to enrich the world by sharing his omniscience elsewhere.
[Image: conspiracy_theory.jpg]
Reply
07-14-2010, 01:11 AM,
#39
RE: 'This is not intelligent design'
(07-14-2010, 12:49 AM)JazzRoc Wrote: The places in question exist to keep us from falling prey to "we can't do that" and the idea of slave labor is highly irrational... sure it helped build some of the smaller poorly constructed pyramids, and some temples in South America, but all were made after the "gods" had left that gave the original ideas... our current mindthink is unable to understand the truth so most r totally blind to it.
You ARE speaking for yourself here...
[quote/]

no i think your def in that group so sure you r as to how things were done you can have all the slave ships you want as others here have noted the sheer numbers of it... and you seem to (and i accept everyones limited views of what CAN be...!) be sure it can be done and this is as good as humans have achieved, ignoring archeological and document facts on idea by the wonderful scientist of today... LOL one thing to note is any information they let us have is to there advantage or is purely dis-info to keep us limited us being humanity as a whole.

[quote='JazzRoc' pid='193721' dateline='1279064968']
As for the stones... outside of antigrav technology the next most plausible would be using the human mind... think jedi. Humans have these powers but they have lost the learning on how to develop them.
If I were you I'd shoot myself. That's not a suggestion. Just what I would do if I were suddenly you.
[quote/]
no need as it's people like me who keep the truth alive if the gove had there way we'd not even know of those with isonic/ mental powers existing , they used to execute them as witches and such to keep them from being accepted but in our world of today we'd recognize them for what they r and that is more realized humans or ones with certain genes...

All things to teach us from research to media (tv/ movies ect) re the paranormal is so we do not forget there is more to life then what we as individuals experience, and that there is more to the world then the material... enlightenment comes only to a few ...

[quote='JazzRoc' pid='193721' dateline='1279064968']

Stonehenge and similar structures in Europe have histories where the shaman's/druids of the past tell how they could lift massive stones with the mind, and of the powers of several plants that can open up awareness.
Of course. A priest never tells lies.
[quote/]

sure they do once they have lost the knowledge, or if they never had it. In truth though most of our priests work for the other side keeping us suppressed it was they who worked so hard to distroy knowledge adn such from past cycles, they knwo and do still. hence they took that mountain with no resistance from arizonia, but from what i hear the mexican's just took a nice chunk 4 themselves also... problem with having a dumb-ed down spoiled society of people who believe what there told is acceptable and run with it... (Not all Americans to the few here who r in the grip)

[quote='JazzRoc' pid='193721' dateline='1279064968']
All knowledge given to us by the aliens most call God... as since they designed us they know how we tick and what we need to develop properly... Those in power now whither under the hand of those who made us (or if as i believe, they r those who were supposed to but neglected to...) want us to develop as per our original design or the one we have now that is limited and much easier to control... i think they the latter. Remember knowledge is the only thing THEY can't take from you, and knowledge is know-how, and know-how is power!
Pssst. Keep it to yourself.

nah or we'd learn nothing i only start paths as most of what i know has to be researched yourself to understand/ believe some here have much of it in parts so def a site i recommend. For the most part med science is not my foray, but i can say with no doubt we didn't evolve from monkeys, and those who still believe that i'm sure r the same lot who like you believe we have never been better then we r now, and were alone in the universe... thats naive and smacks of close mindedness... so I'll always share. you'll find that round here part of why i like it Icon_biggrin
Remember Knowledge is the only thing THEY can't take from you, and Knowledge is Know how, and Know how is Power!!!

Live long and Prosper!!!! Have a plan beyond words, and worry not of why the storm is coming as to how you're going to survive in it!!!!

Deathanyl @gmail!!!!!!
Reply
07-14-2010, 01:20 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-14-2010, 02:01 AM by ---.)
#40
RE: 'This is not intelligent design'
time for a new Norway spiral thread Big Grin
nik Wrote: the metamorphosis of flora and fauna various doesn't account for the bizarre advent and preeminence of homo sapien sapien...not to mention civilisation apparently springing up fully developed in the blink of an eye.
Success is a high-speed event, evolutionarily-speaking. Especially intellectual success.
Consider the speed of the modern war that that nice USA can conduct. Countries can be overwhelmed in hours.


...

"And how sure are you that you know all a nation's activities that existed thousands of years ago? Perhaps they had wagons, ships, a slave trade, an endless supply of bodies. Did you know the Chinese COMPLETELY surveyed the Earth in 1443? They calculated their longitude precisely from solar eclipse tables. Not as quick as a chronometer, but just as effective."

This wasn't 600 years ago or so Jazz though, was it? It was 9000 years ago and more importantly very much at the outset of the "Great Leap" -- you are positing that, irrespective of the rapid emergence of such extremely competent engineering capabilities and the advent of written script and numerics seemingly from nowhere, Not only did this civilisation apparently, for all intents and purposes, spring up, in a fashion that often is euphemistically described, in academia as "fully formed", from what; if we are to believe in his story, a rudimentary Agrarianism/pastoralism .. but further, it now must have had an attendant indomitable militaristic might with fully integrated infrastructure able to facilitate what would necessarily have been a massive and highly organised slave trade in order to meet the need for "an endless supply of bodies" as you phrase it.

To me this is an incredulous notion. When one breaks down such an idea into it's necessary components it becomes more clear how astonishingly unsatisfactory it is even though on the surface it may sound like educated common sense.
Reply
07-14-2010, 02:02 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-14-2010, 02:02 AM by yeti.)
#41
RE: 'This is not intelligent design'
The jackass lost me on the first sentence:

Quote:Darwinian evolutionists now belong to the category of phrenologists and flat-earthers.

This douchebag is not interested in the truth, only in his own twisted fantasies.
[Image: randquote.png]
Reply
07-14-2010, 02:09 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-14-2010, 02:13 AM by ---.)
#42
RE: 'This is not intelligent design'
(07-14-2010, 02:02 AM)yeti Wrote: The jackass lost me on the first sentence:

Quote:Darwinian evolutionists now belong to the category of phrenologists and flat-earthers.

This douchebag is not interested in the truth, only in his own twisted fantasies.

maybe you are right - what about these men? They appear to be quoted as saying a more or less equivalent statement:

Quote:Swedish scientist Loren Lovetrup (not a creationist) says: "I believe that one day the Darwinian myth will be ranked the greatest deceit in the history of science," adding that "evolution is anti-science" and "false."

Biochemist Michael Behe has shown in his book, "Darwin's Black Box," that complex systems exist which simply could not have evolved gradually. He calls this "irreducible complexity" -- that is, every part must be in place at the same time for it to work.

Fossil expert and evolutionist Stephen Jay Gould wrote: "The fossil record with its abrupt transitions offers no support for gradual change."

Renowned astronomer Sir Fred Hoyle, in "The Mathematics of Evolution," said, "The speculations of the 'Origin of Species' turned out to be wrong,"

Respected French scientist Pierre Grasse called Darwinian evolution "a pseudo-science."

A.E. Wilder-Smith, possessor of three doctorates, calls Darwinism "impossible." Dr. H.S. Lipson, an agnostic physicist, wrote, "To my mind, the theory (evolution) does not stand up at all."

Mathematician David Berlinski says many of his fellow mathematicians ridicule Darwinism and literally hoot at its claim to be science.

Francis Crick, discoverer of DNA, now favors intelligent design.

Sir Karl Popper declares that Darwinism is "a metaphysical programme," not science.
Reply
07-15-2010, 12:09 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-15-2010, 12:35 AM by JazzRoc.)
#43
RE: 'This is not intelligent design'
Nik
These are direct quotes from Francis Crick, that he CHOSE to use the specific word "miracle" was undoubtedly intentional.
Claiming authority? Don't give a damn. A scientist using the word "miracle" is a PONCE.

Bacteria hitchhiking through the universe in stasis until "chancing" upon the extremely intricate and idiosyncratic conditions needed in "order" to propagate sounds random enough.
NO. Biological compounds in falling comets pooling in the seawater around volcanic vents in earth's mid-ocean ridges to abiotically emerge. Not very "random", more like inserting something into a test tube... Bacteria cannot form in space, you know (but amino acids can), and there's no reason to assume that the initiation of life didn't begin here, and wherever a watery planet exists in the Goldilocks zone of that planet's star.

Roger Hopkins and Vince Lee? presumably - well, let's not omit the part where they concluded from their experiments that their theories were not sufficient to explain the rapidity of the building of the great Pyramids. let's see the same methodology applied to the transport and raising of a 137 ft obelisk weighing in excess of 1 and a half thousand tons using the pertinent materials as academically accepted to have been in use nine thousand years ago .. it's not going to happen because that is not how it was done.
No. I've seen PRIVATE individuals move big rocks. Humans in large groups can have more imagination, and demonstrate more imagination, than individuals like you and me. They can move really big things. Massive stones were moved hundreds of miles by BOAT - they built the boat around the stone, and flooded round it to float it. Etc.

Tens of thousands of slaves? Well my "severely limited imagination" is currently trying to conceive of just how densely populated these 9000 years old not as yet built cities must have been to be able to accommodate such vast numbers of slaves in mortal fear - what sort of ratio to the citizenry do you think would have been necessary to keep them from rebelling from their abysmal situation? The host society must also have had some natty agricultural skills to be able to cope with feeding such dense populations --- all this when the city wasn't even built!
Nope. There were quite a few cities by then. North Africa was NOT a desert. Tents can be quite comfortable.

If we make a conservative estimate of around 5 people required per ton using the methodologies you proscribe
Prescribe. And, actually, I DIDN'T prescribe anything in particular.

(which incidentally have NEVER been able move even anything remotely similar to the kind of weights we are talking about here) -- so that's conservative estimate of 7000 slaves to move ONE block of around 1400tons - and there was more than likely more than just one single block on the go at any one time - considering it was an entire city being built, so we can possibly assume with some degree of safety that in line with your theory there would have feasibly been far more than just 7000 slaves tasked with this construction...and as I said -- there would have had to have been a significant deterrent in numbers to prevent them from rebelling...that's a lot of food they are going to have needed on a daily basis to keep the city project rolling....you're right, your imagination is much more vivid than mine.
No. Its my experience which is greater. It would take 31,360 slaves to DIRECTLY LIFT such a block, but it isn't ever necessary to do so.
Religion was the usual spur I'm sure, manipulating FEAR. Quite often despots make themselves gods and cut out the middlemen.

time for a new Norway spiral thread the metamorphosis of flora and fauna various doesn't account for the bizarre advent and preeminence of homo sapien sapien...not to mention civilisation apparently springing up fully developed in the blink of an eye.
No, please. It was just a leaky rocket.

This wasn't 600 years ago or so Jazz though, was it? It was 9000 years ago and more importantly very much at the outset of the "Great Leap" -- you are positing that, irrespective of the rapid emergence of such extremely competent engineering capabilities and the advent of written script and numerics seemingly from nowhere, Not only did this civilisation apparently, for all intents and purposes, spring up, in a fashion that often is euphemistically described, in academia as "fully formed", from what; if we are to believe in his story, a rudimentary Agrarianism/pastoralism .. but further, it now must have had an attendant indomitable militaristic might with fully integrated infrastructure able to facilitate what would necessarily have been a massive and highly organised slave trade in order to meet the need for "an endless supply of bodies" as you phrase it.
The Chinese Empire rose and fell several times. The time taken between collapse to triumph was never more than a couple of centuries. Ur had been a city for 3000 years. The last ice age was retreating from Europe and North Mammoths and sabre-toothed tigers had just been extinguished. Africa was the breadbasket of the Mediterranean. Qanats followed the coastline of the southern mediterranean sea to irrigate the massive harvest. Wake up.

To me this is an incredulous notion.
Incredible. Notions aren't credulous or incredulous.

When one breaks down such an idea into its necessary components it becomes more clear how astonishingly unsatisfactory it is even though on the surface it may sound like educated common sense.
Tut-tut. I thought that was reductionism. These days we go for MASSIVE PARALLELISM and EMERGENCE.

The evidence is there set in stone. I am not entirely sure that you mightn't just be being willfully ignorant for your own amusement.
No. I correct your grammar for that.

so a scroogle search, Jazz, search for "the coral castle" or "Edward Leedskalnin"-- that is how they did it more probably, I do not believe that "Gordon's Method" of levers and pulleys ..or whichever similar theory... would never prove sufficient in coping with the transfer and raising of a 137ft Obelisk weighing over 1.5k tons over 9000 years ago. The egoism of modernity simply cripples advances as much as it purports to further them.
You must be retarded.



Deathanyl
no i think your def in that group so sure you r as to how things were done you can have all the slave ships you want as others here have noted the sheer numbers of it... and you seem to (and i accept everyones limited views of what CAN be...!) be sure it can be done and this is as good as humans have achieved, ignoring archeological and document facts on idea by the wonderful scientist of today... LOL one thing to note is any information they let us have is to there advantage or is purely disinfo to keep us limited us being humanity as a whole.
You are forever limiting yourself. No-one else knows or cares.

no need as it's people like me who keep the truth alive
Like you? As long as it isn't ACTUALLY you...

if the gove had there way we'd not even know of those with isonic/mental powers existing , they used to execute them as witches and such to keep them from being accepted but in our world of today we'd recognize them for what they r and that is more realized humans or ones with certain genes...
I gather you are one of the lucky ones.

All things to teach us from research to media (tv/movies ect) re the paranormal is so we do not forget there is more to life then what we as individuals experience, and that there is more to the world then the material...
Sure.

enlightenment comes only to a few...
It's such a shame.

sure they do once they have lost the knowledge, or if they never had it. In truth though most of our priests work for the other side keeping us suppressed it was they who worked so hard to distroy knowledge adn such from past cycles, they knwo and do still. hence they took that mountain with no resistance from arizonia, but from what i hear the mexicans just took a nice chunk 4 themselves also... problem with having a dumbed down spoiled society of people who believe what they're told is acceptable and run with it... (Not all Americans to the few here who r in the grip)
Fortunately you're not spoiled.

nah or we'd learn nothing i only start paths as most of what i know has to be researched yourself to understand/ believe some here have much of it in parts so def a site i recommend. For the most part med science is not my foray, but i can say with no doubt we didn't evolve from monkeys, and those who still believe that i'm sure r the same lot who like you believe we have never been better then we r now, and were alone in the universe... thats naive and smacks of close mindedness... so I'll always share. you'll find that round here part of why i like it
Well, thanks for the update.

h3rm35
well, obviously, none of us are a match for the massive intellect and acumen of our super-evolved visitor here, so we should probably all just let him educate us and ask no questions... he's obviously frustrated by explaining the mysteries of science to us, over and over again - you can tell by his condescending tone. maybe if we quietly sit here, let him lecture us, and then ponder silently over those shining bits of knowledge he's offered us for a good long while, he'll be able to enrich the world by sharing his omniscience elsewhere.
Quit projecting your nature upon everyone else. And while you're at it, come up with something constructive and not just an open conspiracy. Why is your business wheedling to others to suppress debate instead of just debating?

"The paradox of liberation is that in order to preserve freedom and to struggle for it, one must in a sense be already free, having freedom within oneself" N. Berdyaev
I told you how to get that freedom.
(07-14-2010, 02:02 AM)yeti Wrote: The jackass lost me on the first sentence:
Quote:Darwinian evolutionists now belong to the category of phrenologists and flat-earthers.
This douchebag is not interested in the truth, only in his own twisted fantasies.
Wow. Yes!
Reply
07-15-2010, 12:14 AM,
#44
RE: 'This is not intelligent design'
I've never asked you for anything... you don't have anything that I'd ever want.
[Image: conspiracy_theory.jpg]
Reply
07-15-2010, 01:24 AM,
#45
RE: 'This is not intelligent design'
(07-15-2010, 12:14 AM)h3rm35 Wrote: I've never asked you for anything... you don't have anything that I'd ever want.
Even so, why is it your business to wheedle to others to suppress debate instead of just debating?
Is that what you think this place is for?
I think that behavior IS trolling.
Reply


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Brain scanners to be used to 'design' political candidates TriWooOx 11 3,103 05-14-2010, 10:09 PM
Last Post: h3rm35
  'doomsday' Vault Design Unveiled TriWooOx 6 1,923 02-26-2008, 05:29 PM
Last Post: TriWooOx
  The human race will one day split into two separate species, an attractive, intelligent ruling elite and an underclass o hardboiled11 13 2,787 10-30-2007, 03:12 PM
Last Post: beyond
  New Nuclear Warhead Design For Us TriWooOx 0 582 03-05-2007, 12:37 PM
Last Post: TriWooOx

Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)