Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
The Christ and God of the bible, as opposed to those of religion.
03-25-2010, 07:02 AM,
#31
RE: The Christ and God of the bible, as opposed to those of religion.
Jack, you are a Christian because you believe in Jesus...and a fine one at that. Perhaps the ones you see claiming to be are the fake ones. Many of the first shall be last and the last shall be first.

I think it is important to know about Hell but to preach it into the ground to attempt to reach people for Christ, no. IMHO, Jesus mainly focused on love and forgiveness. Scared people don't stay scared very long and aren't true to themselves or whoever they run to out of fear.

I read something the other day that spoke about Hell but then when Jesus reins and defeats Satan that Hell would be no more. Maybe it isn't forever? I don't know and I pray I don't find out. There is a guy that talks differently and I'll try and find out his name, extremely interesting. He comes on 106.9 The Light occasionally. I never can catch his name. Today he talked on how the New Testament wasn't chronologically written. Pretty smart guy.
Reply
03-25-2010, 01:00 PM, (This post was last modified: 03-25-2010, 01:09 PM by Krusty.)
#32
RE: The Christ and God of the bible, as opposed to those of religion.
Quote:I read something the other day that spoke about Hell but then when Jesus reins and defeats Satan that Hell would be no more. Maybe it isn't forever?

The problem with that theory is that the same word used to describe the words eternal and everlasting mean without beginning or end in hebrew. Therefore, if hell isn't forever, then neither is everlasting life in heaven as both words are used to describe life in hell and heaven. Either both are true or both are untrue. It's can't be a mix of both. If you require further proof of the words eternal and everlasting, i can provide it when i get home from work, or you can just look it up in any concordance.

Also there is the issue that Jesus has already defeated death and therefore satan when he died on the cross. Whoever this guy is that is saying these things, is obviously not a very good bible student.
Reply
03-25-2010, 01:06 PM,
#33
RE: The Christ and God of the bible, as opposed to those of religion.
(03-25-2010, 01:00 PM)Krusty Wrote:
Quote:I read something the other day that spoke about Hell but then when Jesus reins and defeats Satan that Hell would be no more. Maybe it isn't forever?

The problem with that theory is that the same word used to describe the words eternal and everlasting mean without beginning or end in hebrew. Therefore, if hell isn't forever, then neither is everlasting life in heaven as both words are used to describe life in hell and heaven. Either both are true or both are untrue. It's can't be a mix of both. If you require further proof of the words eternal and everlasting, i can provide it when i get home from work, or you can just look it up in any concordance.

Also there is the issue that Jesus has already defeated death and therefore satan when he died on the cross. Whoever this guy is that is saying these things, it obviously not a very good bible student.

I would like to hear more. Please continue.
Reply
03-25-2010, 01:11 PM,
#34
RE: The Christ and God of the bible, as opposed to those of religion.
I shall when i get home in about 10 hours. I had this discussion on another forum so all i have to do is copy and paste it here.
Reply
03-25-2010, 01:34 PM,
#35
RE: The Christ and God of the bible, as opposed to those of religion.
I look forward to it. Thank you.
Reply
03-26-2010, 02:08 PM,
#36
RE: The Christ and God of the bible, as opposed to those of religion.
OK here are the verses in the new testament that refer to the words everlasting or eternal. Forgive me if i missed any.

Quote:Matthew Chapter 25:38-46
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Quote:Mark 9:45
And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

This quote does not use the words eternal or everlasting, but the meaning is clear to me with the use of 'never'.

Quote:2 Thessalonians 1:8-10
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Quote:Mark 3:29
But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

Please note that i cut the verse short. This isn't to hide something, just to save room.

Quote:2 Corinthians 4:18
While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Quote:2 Corinthians 5:1
For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

Quote:Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Quote:Hebrews 6:2
Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgement.

Quote:Hebrews 9:15
And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Quote:Jude 1:7
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

And the meanings of eternal and everlasting (both of which come from the same root word):

Quote:The first instance i will deal with is Jude 1:6:

"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgement of the great day."

Here is the translation of the use of everlasting in this instance:

Strong's reference: 126
Translation: aïdios

1) eternal, everlasting.

G126 - covers the complete philosophical idea — without beginning and without end; also either without beginning or without end; as respects to the past it is applied to what has existed time out of mind

Strong's Number G126 matches the Greek ἀΐδιος (aïdios), which occurs 2 times in 2 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV (Rom 1:20 - Jud 1:6)

Quote:The other occurrence of everlasting is used in all other cases in the New Testament:

Strong's Reference: 166
Translation: aiōnios

1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be
2) without beginning
3) without end, never to cease, everlasting

G166 - gives prominence to the immeasurableness of eternity

Quote:The root word for both instances is:

Strong's Reference: 165
Translation: aiōn

1) for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity
2) the worlds, universe
3) period of time, age

As you can see, any instance where everlasting or eternal is used for hell or punishment, it is also used for eternal life, an eternal God, heaven and other things. Therefore if hell is not eternal or everlasting, then neither is God, heaven or anything else referenced as being eternal or everlasting.

You may notice that is says without beginning or end. That (i think) is because they were created outside of time. I would consider this to be a stumbling block because people could reason that heaven and hell have existed for as long as God has existed. However, if you consider that it was created outside of time, then naturally it would not have a beginning or end.

However, before anyone goes and gets discouraged by a God that would punish its creation in an everlasting manner, you must first consider the way in which the person got into that kind of situation first. In all instances it is a rejection of God and his gift to humanity, that is forgiveness of sins. Therefore if you reject God he will put you in a place without God's presence. In this way God preserves free will.

If God ignored a rejection of him, then that would be a violation of a humans free will. That is something that God chose not to do when we were created. He could have easily destroyed Adam and Eve and started again. Instead he chose to uphold the free will decision and fix it in another manner that saved humanity instead of destroying it.
Reply


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Israeli Historian: Palestinians Are Biological Descendants of Bible’s Jews Frank2 0 879 08-04-2014, 09:08 AM
Last Post: Frank2
  The Bible: Myth or History? Solve et Coagula 15 4,117 05-26-2014, 02:23 AM
Last Post: Easy Skanking
  astrology and the bible NinjB 0 570 05-19-2014, 09:23 PM
Last Post: NinjB
  Mother Theresa's Masochism: Does Religion Demand Suffering to Keep People Passive? mexika 2 955 04-30-2013, 02:23 PM
Last Post: Watchdog
  The Insanity of Religion, and How Organized Religion Depends on Your Ignorance Easy Skanking 2 1,166 01-02-2013, 06:55 AM
Last Post: FastTadpole
  REVOLUTION of LIGHT and LOVE: JESUS CHRIST and MARY are Revolutionaries Solve et Coagula 0 1,177 04-22-2012, 06:57 PM
Last Post: Solve et Coagula
  CHRIST Solve et Coagula 2 1,137 02-21-2012, 11:34 PM
Last Post: Easy Skanking
  Esoteric Christ vs Exoteric Christianity: True Religion of Christ vs Churchianity Solve et Coagula 1 913 01-16-2012, 07:46 AM
Last Post: tahuti
  Sweden recognises new file-sharing religion Kopimism TriWooOx 3 1,219 01-07-2012, 12:57 AM
Last Post: Easy Skanking
  Esoteric Christianity vs Exoteric Christianity: True Religion of Christ vs Churchiani Solve et Coagula 5 1,786 11-06-2011, 04:02 PM
Last Post: hardline

Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)