Thread Rating:
  • 2 Vote(s) - 4.5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
You Can Get Addicted to Pot
01-28-2010, 01:37 PM,
#1
Information  You Can Get Addicted to Pot
You Can Get Addicted to Pot
By Suzanna Williams | May , 1991

http://www2.scholastic.com/browse/article.jsp?id=4826

Evidence suggests that marijuana is an addictive drug — not the "harmless herb" that has been talked about for years. Many teens believe that marijuana is "just a plant" or not as bad as heroin or cocaine. The facts are presented.

If you think pot is a harmless herb, think again. The evidence is mounting that marijuana is an addictive drug.

Rhianne Lexoss was already buzzed from a couple of Budweisers when she decided to smoke marijuana for the first time with her friends. She was 11 years old. "I was at a New Year's Eve party and I was like, Why not try it?

Everybody's doing it." Besides, Rhianne, who is from Tucson, Ariz., had heard that marijuana, also known as "pot," "weed," and "bud," wasn't addictive. "I thought marijuana wasn't even a drug. It's a plant."

Rhianne's perception of marijuana isn't uncommon. Odaro B., 17, of New York City, had thought "smoking weed was no big deal," before he puffed on a joint for the first time. After all, "there were worse drugs out there, like heroin and cocaine," he says.

Soon after the New Year's Eve party, Rhianne began getting high three times a day. Some days she'd smoke as many as 20 joints. "Pot made me feel relaxed, like I didn't have a care in the world," recalls Rhianne, who later stopped going to school in favor of hanging out with friends "and smoking bud all day."

Now, at age 17, Rhianne is a resident patient in the drug rehabilitation program at Phoenix House in San Diego, Calif. "After a while, I realized that I was missing out on things other kids my age were doing, like going to the prom and playing sports, because I was stoned all the time. I was addicted to smoking pot."

Odaro confesses that he, too, became dependent on marijuana. "I'd smoke pot whenever I got upset with my family, which was a lot. I'd end up smoking up to eight joints a day. It was like I couldn't stop. That's when I figured out I had a problem and needed to get help."

Pot addicts

Odaro and Rhianne were among the thousands of people who sought treatment for marijuana abuse last year. They learned the hard way that pot is not the harmless feel-good herb that many people, adults and teens alike, talk about.

Marijuana is an addictive drug, according to the American Society of Addictive Medicine. In June of 1997, a team of laboratory researchers found that marijuana produced the same biochemical changes in the brains of rats as highly addictive drugs, such as heroin, cocaine, nicotine, and alcohol.

The researchers discovered that smoking pot seems to alter the brain chemistry of users in a way that makes them more vulnerable to using drugs like heroin and cocaine. That could explain why 90 percent of hard-drug users say that they used marijuana first.

Another way addiction specialists define addiction is by noting what happens when a substance is withdrawn. THC, or delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol, is the active ingredient in marijuana.

In one study, subjects who were given high-dose THC pills for three weeks experienced irritability, restlessness, sleep disturbances, sweating, and nausea when they stopped taking the THC pills.

Pot and the body

Regular use of pot can lead to a host of serious physical and psychological problems, from panic attacks and impaired judgment to delayed puberty and lung cancer.

Marijuana contains 150 different elements, including THC. When marijuana is smoked, THC flows through the bloodstream and interacts with different areas of the brain, such as the hippocampus, which is responsible for memory, and the cerebellum, which controls movement. The highest concentration of THC, however, binds with the middle of the brain. It is this binding that triggers the secretion of the feel-good hormone dopamine. This is what produces a feeling of mellowness or carefree numbness — a "high."

Because marijuana affects the hippocampus, the part of your brain that forms new memories, smoking it can inhibit new memory formation. That can be a serious problem if you're in school, trying to learn. There have been no studies on the long-term effects of marijuana on child and adolescent brains, so the extent to which smoking pot permanently damages brain cells is unknown.

The Hype

It appears that many teens are unaware of the dangers of pot smoking. The use of marijuana among teenagers has more than doubled since 1992, after a steady decline throughout the 1980s.

In 1997, one in six 10th-graders reported that he or she was a current marijuana user, according to an annual University of Michigan survey of drug use among young people. And according to a federal survey, about one third of high school seniors have tried or used marijuana. So how did pot get such a harmless, party-friendly rep? After all, it is illegal to possess or use marijuana. But perhaps you don't know that, because it's always around-at parties, concerts, maybe even at school.

Marijuana is also sold on street corners, from swanky neighborhoods to run-down inner cities. In fact, it's easier for a teenager to buy a bag of marijuana than to purchase a pack of cigarettes or a six-pack of beer, according to the National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse at Columbia University.

During the past few years, popular music groups have also glamorized or endorsed smoking marijuana by sporting marijuana-leaf jewelry or glorifying pot in their song lyrics.

Some of the adults you know may admit to having smoked marijuana during the 1960s and 1970s, which was a time of rampant drug experimentation. And now, you notice that they seem just fine and healthy. So you ask yourself, If they smoked pot, why can't I?

Then vs. Now

For one thing, the marijuana that was smoked in the past was very different from the kind that's being smoked now. Scientists confirm that sophisticated cultivation of marijuana plants produces marijuana with THC levels that may be four times greater than the 1974 variety.

In addition, people are now smoking marijuana in greater quantities, as in blunts, which are hollowed-out cigars packed with pot and sometimes laced with other substances such as heroin or even crack cocaine.

A Crutch

Marijuana can also become a psychological crutch, says Martha Gagne, director of the American Council for Drug Education.

"Marijuana is a drug that masks reality," says Gagne. "People use it to forget about their problems, and eventually, it becomes a crutch to deal with life," she continues. Marijuana abuse develops, she says, when users find it impossible to cope with everyday life unless they are high.

That was what happened to 15year-old Sarah. (Sarah, who is from Blue Island, Ill., asked that Choices not use her last name.) "I used to smoke pot to try to get away from the pain of my dad leaving my mom," she says, "so I'd smoke all the time. But after a while, I realized the pain was still there."

Kathy, 19, of St. Louis, Mo., turned to pot when school became overwhelmingly stressful. "I was having a crazy, hard time one semester, so all I wanted to do when I got home was smoke a bowl and chill out," she says. "It became my way of life, of dealing." (Kathy also asked that Choices keep her last name confidential.)

Not everyone who uses marijuana becomes addicted. However, when a casual user starts to smoke more pot, he or she can develop a tolerance to the drug, and may require more of the drug to get high. Those who get completely hooked on pot, Gagne points out, are usually going through an emotionally difficult transition, such as a divorce, a move, or a death in the family. In this way, Sarah and Kathy were perfect examples of students at risk of developing a drug dependence.

"People develop a compulsive need to use marijuana, despite the harm it causes to themselves," explains Dr. Terry Horton, the medical director and vice president of Phoenix House in New York City.

Saying No

Educators and the government have been pumping more dollars and effort into drug education, including a $195 million government-financed advertising campaign to warn Americans about the dangers of marijuana.

Recent surveys show that kids seem to be catching on. The number of teens who reported using pot dropped slightly in 1997 — the first drop after a five-year climb. And the percentage of 8th-graders who said they disapprove of drug use rose slightly (by 1.5 percent) to 78 percent in 1997.

Tamika Campbell, 18, of Atlanta, Ga., is one of those disapproving teens. "I recently learned from PRIDE, a drug-education program at school, that pot is not an herb," she says. "It's an illegal drug, with dangerous chemicals and stuff."

Many of the new drug-education efforts have gotten away from the simplistic 'Just say no'" message of the 1980s. It's more than a matter of knowing how to say 'no', says Martha Gagne.

"Because self-esteem and peer pressure are inextricably linked, kids have to feel confident in order to make decisions not to use drugs," she explains. If you feel good about yourself, you'll be better able to resist being influenced by your friends.

It's a lesson that Tamika had already taught herself when she was first offered a joint in her neighborhood park. "I knew it was OK to say 'no'. If you're strong and smart, like I am, then you know you shouldn't do something that isn't right or illegal." And if her friends would ever get mad at her for not puffing away, then, she wisely points out, "they weren't really my friends in the first place."

Looking back on her smoky, hazy past, Rhianne says, "It took a while for me to realize that smoking pot is wrong. I know now that I don't need drugs to have fun. In fact, I am going to have more fun in my future without them."

Help and Information

If you want more information about marijuana or have a friend who you think has a pot problem, here are some organizations that can help you:

American Council for Drug Abuse

24-hour Hotline

1400-DRUG.HELP

Center for Substance Abuse

Treatment Information and Treatment

Referral Hotline

1-800-622-HELP

Narcotics Anonymous 818-773-9999
Reply
01-28-2010, 04:03 PM,
#2
RE: You Can Get Addicted to Pot
There is actually a MA group in my city that a friend of mine started. He was ostracized from NA and AA meeting because it was not taken seriously and ridiculed for standing up and stating "My name is 'Bob' and I am a pothead".

Even though it not as addictive like cocaine, meth and heroin. This does not mean you cannot get addicted to pot. I've seen too many people become dependent on the drug, be it physiologically or physically, with my own eyes to deny the phenomenon. The testimonials along with the clinical studies cited below attest to this, particularly in developing minds. Granted it is much easier to quit doing it than other substances IMO.

As far as programs like DARE go, they are presented as a joke and encourage the rebelling spirit of youth to do just the opposite. "Hey kids stick your face in this bag of weed and see what it smells like" is a common tactic. They think "damn that smelled good" and they relate that sensory experience to a fun day off from real school work and that mental association likely prompts them to have a puff in some cases.

If we have built up a mutual respect and repore with kids (your own children, formal or informal) it might mean something coming from you. Just don't go into big long drug trip adventure stories - that, of course, would be fucking retarded.

Related thread:
Cannabis Usage
http://concen.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=4
There are no others, there is only us.
http://FastTadpole.com/
Reply
01-28-2010, 05:16 PM, (This post was last modified: 01-28-2010, 05:26 PM by SiLVa.)
#3
RE: You Can Get Addicted to Pot
I call BS on so many level of this article. Full of half-truths, fallacies, and downright lies.
As Ive smoked for quite some time. I have been able to go periods without smoking, and without having any serious negative effects, besides maybe being a little grumpy or irritable but that its never extreme or serious and never lasts more than a day or two. I was way more addicted to cigarettes and quit cold turkey on Jan. 1st 2000. Ive gone without smoking one since, after smoking a pack a day for 7 years. It was much harder to go without smoking a cigarette 1 or 2 days then it is for me to go without weed for more than a week.
Each individual is affected differently by whatever drugs they take. Some people may have more of an addiction to pot than others, same goes with alcohol and pretty much any other drug. Ive known very few people to be really addicted to pot in a bad way, and they've all since gotten over any addiction without any rehab. We all have different chemical balances in our own system. I wouldnt doubt that some drugs, in particular opiates, have a much more of a dependancy and are much more addictive.
I just dont see the facts in this at all really. A lot of personal testimonies that may have nothing to do with anyone else, but there own addictive personalities.
The whole gate-way drug thing has been disproven, and no one can say that Marijuana is a gate way drug with any more evidence than me saying cigarettes are.
"Listen to everyone, read everything, believe nothing unless you can prove it in your own research"
~William Cooper

DTTNWO!
Reply
01-28-2010, 06:30 PM,
#4
RE: You Can Get Addicted to Pot
Quote:Each individual is affected differently by whatever drugs they take. Some people may have more of an addiction to pot than others. A lot of personal testimonies that may have nothing to do with anyone else, but there own addictive personalities.

true dat, but a lot of people have addictive personalities or circumstances that would force them to escape from reality for whatever reasons and develop a dependence. Some people need help to get off of this dependence which makes it, by definition, addictive.

Quote:The whole gate-way drug thing has been disproven, and no one can say that Marijuana is a gate way drug with any more evidence than me saying cigarettes are.

Yeah that is a bunch of bunk to drive market forces to something more taxable* that it is any more of a gateway drug than ciggys, booze or pharma poison but it remains a gateway drug nonetheless. Due to it's availability it is a gatekeeper to a whole.

I urge respect for any substance you or I put into our bodies including staying clear of 99% of the synthesized garbage including food like twinkies and soda to honour your body. However temporary it may be, it's the only one you got - unless you don't mind using Palestinian, Chinese and Haitian (etc..) replacement parts.

On Crime and Punishment in the Police State

I feel the recent trend is a ruse to make people feel justified and let their guard down in smoking their dope psy-op style so the DEA (US) can take your property and fund the police state machine. No matter what opinion is - it is still against the law and it will be enforced when they see a net gain in incarcerating someone to assert their power, discredit someone or extort money overtly or covertly.

They might legalize mj just so they can tax it though since public opinion is on their side and they might have something up their sleeves to test drivers under the influence for irrefutable evidence.

Everything in moderation no matter the sensation.
There are no others, there is only us.
http://FastTadpole.com/
Reply
01-28-2010, 07:00 PM, (This post was last modified: 01-28-2010, 07:26 PM by joeblow.)
#5
RE: You Can Get Addicted to Pot
Interesting replies, but I was hoping to debate with nik (he seems to have gone AWOL again Huh ). I found a fascinating abstract at PubMed and will get the entire text soon (I live in a university town Clap ).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18482435?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=21

Cannabis and psychiatric disorders: it is not only addiction.

Leweke FM, Koethe D.

Department of Psychiatry and Psychotherapy, University of Cologne, Cologne, Germany. leweke@ecnp.net

Since the discovery of the endocannabinoid system, a growing body of psychiatric research has emerged focusing on the role of this system in major psychiatric disorders like schizophrenia (SCZ), bipolar disorder (BD), major depression and anxiety disorder. Continuing in the line of earlier epidemiological studies, recent replication studies indicate that frequent cannabis use doubles the risk for psychotic symptoms and SCZ. Further points of clinical research interest are alterations of endocannabinoids and their relation to symptoms as well as postmortem analyses of cannabinoid CB(1) receptor densities in SCZ. A possible neurobiological mechanism for the deleterious influence of cannabis use in SCZ has been suggested, involving the disruption of endogenous cannabinoid signaling and functioning. Even though the number of studies is still limited for affective and anxiety disorders, previous results suggest these diseases to be exciting objectives of cannabinoid-associated research. Therefore, it became apparent that cannabis use is not only frequent in patients suffering from BD, but that it also induces manic symptoms in this group. In addition, prior antipsychotic treatment decreased the numerical density of CB(1) immunoreactive glial cells in bipolar patients. Although the data on the influence of cannabis use on the development of major depression is controversial, cannabinoid compounds could display a new class of medication, as suggested by the antidepressive effects of the fatty acid amino hydrolase inhibitor URB597 in animal models. With numerous open questions and controversial results, further research is required to specify and extend the findings in this area, which provides a promising target for novel pharmacotherapeutic interventions.

PMID: 18482435 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Reply
01-28-2010, 07:19 PM,
#6
RE: You Can Get Addicted to Pot
Quote:further research is required to specify and extend the findings in this area

Agreed but don't ignore the results in the population. It would be preferable to have this study done with transparency by an independent research group. Real scientists are truth seekers impervious to the corruptibility of greed and status. I point to the following foreshadowing statement that makes me wary of this upcoming call for research and any agenda behind it.

Quote: ..which provides a promising target for novel pharmacotherapeutic interventions.

I'm not a big fan of institutionalized 'help' either. Also, Baxter, Pfzier or GSK also recently patented the THC pill they're moving in on the monteziation of weed on a couple of fronts it seems.
There are no others, there is only us.
http://FastTadpole.com/
Reply
01-28-2010, 10:08 PM,
#7
RE: You Can Get Addicted to Pot
These Dare programs are just after money. However they did teach me about drugs in school, kind of sparked a curiosity. Who didn't want to fly high in middle school? Too bad (or good) I never fulfilled my interest in it.
Tongue
[Image: Palestinian_Dawn_by_Palestinian_Pride.jpg]
Reply
01-29-2010, 12:39 AM,
#8
RE: You Can Get Addicted to Pot
> Full of half-truths, fallacies, and downright lies.

That's what I thought. Clearly, that article was aimed at the more simple people.
Reply
01-29-2010, 01:05 AM,
#9
RE: You Can Get Addicted to Pot
You can get addicted to pot as the article title states. It's not as likely (by a long shot) as a lot of other substances but the possibility exists just not like the bias article makes it out to be. A lot of it has to do where your head is at, body chemistry, the amount you use and your mental development, not necessarily maturity. I would not recommend it to anyone under 18 to be on the safe side.
There are no others, there is only us.
http://FastTadpole.com/
Reply
01-29-2010, 01:08 AM,
#10
RE: You Can Get Addicted to Pot
I agree that article was such a lame attempt at a hit piece. That's what they have to resort to when the truth doesn't serve their agenda.

Regardless of the facts that cannabis is not physically addictive, is medically beneficent in many ways both preventative and curative, younger folks should still refrain from it's usage. While it probably doesn't cause neural developmental disorders, it is a psychoactive substance and has the possibility for impairing the normal growing brain. Recreational use for adults only.
“Today’s scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after
equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. ” -Nikola Tesla

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." -Jimi Hendrix
Reply
01-29-2010, 02:15 AM,
#11
RE: You Can Get Addicted to Pot
Quote:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18482...inalpos=21

Cannabis and psychiatric disorders: it is not only addiction.

Leweke FM, Koethe D.

Department of Psychiatry and Psychotherapy, University of Cologne, Cologne, Germany. leweke@ecnp.net

Since the discovery of the endocannabinoid system, a growing body of psychiatric research has emerged focusing on the role of this system in major psychiatric disorders like schizophrenia (SCZ), bipolar disorder (BD), major depression and anxiety disorder. Continuing in the line of earlier epidemiological studies, recent replication studies indicate that frequent cannabis use doubles the risk for psychotic symptoms and SCZ. Further points of clinical research interest are alterations of endocannabinoids and their relation to symptoms as well as postmortem analyses of cannabinoid CB(1) receptor densities in SCZ. A possible neurobiological mechanism for the deleterious influence of cannabis use in SCZ has been suggested, involving the disruption of endogenous cannabinoid signaling and functioning. Even though the number of studies is still limited for affective and anxiety disorders, previous results suggest these diseases to be exciting objectives of cannabinoid-associated research. Therefore, it became apparent that cannabis use is not only frequent in patients suffering from BD, but that it also induces manic symptoms in this group. In addition, prior antipsychotic treatment decreased the numerical density of CB(1) immunoreactive glial cells in bipolar patients. Although the data on the influence of cannabis use on the development of major depression is controversial, cannabinoid compounds could display a new class of medication, as suggested by the antidepressive effects of the fatty acid amino hydrolase inhibitor URB597 in animal models. With numerous open questions and controversial results, further research is required to specify and extend the findings in this area, which provides a promising target for novel pharmacotherapeutic interventions.

I think it's becoming relatively well known and accepted knowledge nowadays that the CBD compounds in the plant are the anti-psychotic constituents to it's make up - these are the compounds which unfortunately have traditionally been viewed as superfluous and detracting from the effects and after effects of THC ingestion - and ∴ breeders attempted to reduce, if not eliminate, the CBD values through botany, ergo destabilising the plant's natural occurring chemical range and balance.

One can only speculate that the incidence of cannabis sativa having been concluded as the cause of triggering of latent mental health issues in individuals could well be a result of tampering with the plants anti-psychotic compunds? - it wouldn't make sense for big pharma to be interested inmaking anti-psychotic medicines from a plant that naturally induces psychosis. jmo.

I don't believe in the gateway drug argument; i think it is promulgated by the illuminati.

I would never allow my child or any child in my guardianship to imbibe marijuana until at least their brain is physiologically fully developed.

If using marijuana as a neuropathic pain releiver or for other medicinal purposes I would definitely think that something with a natural occurring ratio of CBD's would be the way to go.

I think pot pulls people out of the system and they hate that.
Reply
01-29-2010, 06:05 AM,
#12
RE: You Can Get Addicted to Pot
It beats the hell out of blow or meth... now there's something that'll make you psychotic.

I personally drink more than anything, to deal with chronic stress fractures, mostly, but a bowl will take the edge off and amplifies the effects of the alcohol (which I persist in thinking is better than an addiction to narcotics,) and saves my liver from some toxicity.

I don't believe for a second in anything that says that marijuana is addictive on the physical level, and a recurring urge to ingest something does not equate with an "addiction" unless you're a shrink with too few patients to pay your bills... the "gateway" effect is societal, not induced by the drug itself, and therefor, in a society where pot isn't taboo, you probably won't have heroin in a stash spot next to a bag of Northern Lights.

Then again, I started smoking pot when I was nine, so I may be a bit biased.
[Image: conspiracy_theory.jpg]
Reply
01-29-2010, 06:24 AM,
#13
RE: You Can Get Addicted to Pot
(01-29-2010, 06:05 AM)h3rm35 Wrote: the "gateway" effect is societal, not induced by the drug itself, and therefor, in a society where pot isn't taboo, you probably won't have heroin in a stash spot next to a bag of Northern Lights.
Exactly. People make bogus arguments based on correlations pretending they're causal relationships, when in fact there is a common cause external cause. With respect to the gateway effect, it's because drug dealers deal drugs. Hence, the average marijuana user who has to buy his weed is going to come in contact with other drugs. The gateway is merely one of access and it is purely facilitated by the black market regime under which pot transactions occur.
Reply
01-29-2010, 03:50 PM, (This post was last modified: 01-29-2010, 03:51 PM by joeblow.)
#14
RE: You Can Get Addicted to Pot
Interesting answers, but the reason I wanted nik's input was because I knew he would discuss the Biological rather than Social Science aspects of Marijuana.

Quote:I think it's becoming relatively well known and accepted knowledge nowadays that the CBD compounds in the plant are the anti-psychotic constituents to it's make up - these are the compounds which unfortunately have traditionally been viewed as superfluous and detracting from the effects and after effects of THC ingestion - and ? breeders attempted to reduce, if not eliminate, the CBD values through botany, ergo destabilising the plant's natural occurring chemical range and balance.

I did not know that cannabinoids had antipsychotic properties, I looked it up and you are right. I also went through the book "Marijuana Horticulture: The Indoor/Outdoor Medical Grower's Bible" to confirm that growers have been refining the ratio of THC/CBD.

Quote:One can only speculate that the incidence of cannabis sativa having been concluded as the cause of triggering of latent mental health issues in individuals could well be a result of tampering with the plants anti-psychotic compunds? - it wouldn't make sense for big pharma to be interested inmaking anti-psychotic medicines from a plant that naturally induces psychosis. jmo.

That is what the scientific study should take up, as soon as I get a full-text copy of it, I will append it to the thread with the relevant portions.

Quote:I don't believe in the gateway drug argument; i think it is promulgated by the illuminati.

It is definitely a gateway drug, if only for the reason stated previously that the Drug-Dealers will take the opportunity to introduce the Drug-Addicts to much harder drugs.

Quote:If using marijuana as a neuropathic pain releiver or for other medicinal purposes I would definitely think that something with a natural occurring ratio of CBD's would be the way to go.

I will see if I can find a study at PubMed which will either confirm or exclude this.

Quote:I think pot pulls people out of the system and they hate that.

I think the the more likely reason is that everyone is able to grow it locally and it would be very hard to control the Means of Distribution.
Reply
01-29-2010, 04:39 PM, (This post was last modified: 01-29-2010, 04:40 PM by SiLVa.)
#15
RE: You Can Get Addicted to Pot
(01-29-2010, 03:50 PM)joeblow Wrote:
Quote:I don't believe in the gateway drug argument; i think it is promulgated by the illuminati.

It is definitely a gateway drug, if only for the reason stated previously that the Drug-Dealers will take the opportunity to introduce the Drug-Addicts to much harder drugs.

JB, Thats still not good enough. What about cigarettes, or cigars, caffeine, or alcohol?
Just because a drug dealer sells other drugs, that has nothing to do with the actual plant or its organic/chemical properties. Why does Cannabis get the blame for being the "gateway"? The actual "gateway" is really based on whether or not the user wants to use anything besides pot. There is no proven link that using marijuana actually makes someone try another drug. If anything the whole gateway thing could be chocked up to each individuals level of curiosity.
There are plenty of people that just smoke weed and do nothing else.

(01-29-2010, 03:50 PM)joeblow Wrote:
Quote:I think pot pulls people out of the system and they hate that.

I think the the more likely reason is that everyone is able to grow it locally and it would be very hard to control the Means of Distribution.
You both have valid points here, imo.
"Listen to everyone, read everything, believe nothing unless you can prove it in your own research"
~William Cooper

DTTNWO!
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)