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The mini ice age starts here
01-11-2010, 11:47 PM,
#16
RE: The mini ice age starts here
(01-11-2010, 11:12 PM)FastTadpole Wrote: In light of Microsoft being brought up, allow me to present the The Stratoshield by Nathan Myhrvold and how he intends to to save the planet (with video).
http://www.techflash.com/seattle/2009/10/video_nathan_myhrvold_explains_how_to_save_the_world.html

brilliant! /s

ROTFLMFAO @ balloons.

Does this geek have any clue as to the weight of his 25 Km hose ?
Let alone getting a balloon up that high. LOL
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01-12-2010, 12:04 AM,
#17
RE: The mini ice age starts here
The years apart on the pictures though is not really what will make the difference. It is the seasons they were taken in. I know that one of the favorite picture comparisons they used was different seasons and of course years apart.

For quite a while I bought into the global warming scam but then just too much evidence points that it is an agenda more than an event. Having said that though I do believe we need to clean up our act.

Gates was lucky and in the right place at the right time, but I believe that it was Steve and Apple that started in a garage. Gates might have as well. I know that what he and his wife participate in isn't exactly what I would admire in a person. Then again, I'm not a big fan of Eugenetics. The point was though that Microsoft has grown and pretty much gobbled up much of the competition and once the competition is gone we will pay his prices and use only the programs they see fit. Like Monsanto, Microsoft can and will change their "past history" so that in a few generations, we will not remember all the work, pricing, and advances made by other people and companies. They will and pretty much already have the thumb that goes up or down.
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01-12-2010, 01:04 AM,
#18
RE: The mini ice age starts here
Yeah, it's a pity they didn't include a measuring stick in those photos as that ice in that glacier which disappeared was quite thick.
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01-12-2010, 03:02 AM, (This post was last modified: 01-12-2010, 03:05 AM by Ctrl.)
#19
RE: The mini ice age starts here
(01-11-2010, 08:17 PM)JFK Wrote: Sighs...

It is just that I remember as a Kid when we used to get snow drifts which were even with the top of the plow truck cabs, on a regular basis ( mid to late 1960's ).

With the exception of the occasional ( as in the last one here happened in 2000 ) fluke storm, that does not happen anymore.

What can I say to those who either do not remember or are too young to have been there in the first place ?
< shrugs >

So what the fuck does that prove? Global warming since the industrial revolution?

Where I live 6 or 7 years ago it was a green +15C Christmas day. This year is was below -20C with 2 feet of snow on the ground. Sure I agree, climate can be cyclical, but does that mean man caused it? The greatest influence on the Earth's temeratures is the Sun.

Hey greeny FUCKNUTS, the Sun is cyclical too!.
(01-12-2010, 01:04 AM)JFK Wrote: Yeah, it's a pity they didn't include a measuring stick in those photos as that ice in that glacier which disappeared was quite thick.

And 10,000 years ago after the last ice age the ice could have been a MILE thick. WTF is your point?
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01-12-2010, 04:05 AM,
#20
RE: The mini ice age starts here
(01-12-2010, 03:02 AM)Ctrl Wrote:
(01-11-2010, 08:17 PM)JFK Wrote: Sighs...

It is just that I remember as a Kid when we used to get snow drifts which were even with the top of the plow truck cabs, on a regular basis ( mid to late 1960's ).

With the exception of the occasional ( as in the last one here happened in 2000 ) fluke storm, that does not happen anymore.

What can I say to those who either do not remember or are too young to have been there in the first place ?
< shrugs >

So what the fuck does that prove? Global warming since the industrial revolution?

Where I live 6 or 7 years ago it was a green +15C Christmas day. This year is was below -20C with 2 feet of snow on the ground. Sure I agree, climate can be cyclical, but does that mean man caused it? The greatest influence on the Earth's temeratures is the Sun.

Hey greeny FUCKNUTS, the Sun is cyclical too!.
(01-12-2010, 01:04 AM)JFK Wrote: Yeah, it's a pity they didn't include a measuring stick in those photos as that ice in that glacier which disappeared was quite thick.

And 10,000 years ago after the last ice age the ice could have been a MILE thick. WTF is your point?

< yawns >

No... Really ??? You wouldn't happen to be referring to the 11 year sunspot cycles now would you ?

I was heavily into shortwave and amateur radio very likely decades before you were even a gleam in your daddy's eye sunshine. Wink

( waits for the inevitable noobie question ) [Image: e314863.gif]
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01-12-2010, 04:12 AM, (This post was last modified: 01-12-2010, 04:29 AM by Ctrl.)
#21
RE: The mini ice age starts here
VE3 COR was may last licence... 10 meter and 2 meter was where I spend my time. Radio gear was Kenwood. Wink Don't be so presumptuous.

[edit]Actually, now that I think of it, when I got my first citizen's band radio it required a licence (at least in Canada) way back then. My station was Xm49-9909. Tongue

-- .. -.- . (dah dah, dit dit, dah dit dah, dit) aka Mike

(01-12-2010, 04:05 AM)JFK Wrote: I was heavily into shortwave and amateur radio very likely decades before you were even a gleam in your daddy's eye sunshine. Wink

On another note, do you want to explain how RF propagation effects global warming? I'd LOVE TO HEAR that one! Otherwise, leave the ham radio out of it!

[edit] I have to correct myself. After moving to Alberta in my early teens I had to get an Alberta licence, so my "last" (now expired) licence for a radio station was VE6 KLA.
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01-12-2010, 04:52 AM, (This post was last modified: 01-12-2010, 04:53 AM by hilly7.)
#22
RE: The mini ice age starts here
A measuring stick, lol. Sure that would have been nice but even nicer still would be a date that they were taken. Maybe it's just where I live but here if you take a picture in the winter it will show more cold related things like ice, snow, etc. In the summer it would show more summer things, like lack of snow, ice, green grass, etc.

Then again, when do most people grab their cameras... when it is a good winter scene. Jut like in the summer they grab their cameras to show good summer scenes.
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01-12-2010, 05:25 AM, (This post was last modified: 01-12-2010, 05:26 AM by JFK.)
#23
RE: The mini ice age starts here
My first CB was a Johnson Messenger 2, 10 channel unit... I did have crystals for all 23 channels and the 10 meter band at that time...
Like this one, only mine was older and did not have the 23 channel recieve tuner ( upper right knob ).

[Image: Johnson2.jpg]

The thing which impressed me about it was the vibrator, which did not work when I bought it ( $90.00 US in 1967 ),
Which I opened up and repaired ( It was broke and useless and I wanted to see what made it "tic". lol.

Never did bother with a license, but I really didn't talk all that much either...
When I did I made up a number... KHB-9550 or something. < scratches head >

Anyways the license requirements ( CB ) were slowly phased out and gone by the mid 70's here.

Once upon a time I used to know morse code.
Drawing a complete blank at the moment though. Undecided
( Except for the ... _ _ _ ... permanantly burned into my brain )

My "ham shack" ( a corner of the cellar ) was all homebrew equipment salvaged from an old radio parts store liquidation auction ( intercepted a half ton of pieces/parts no one bought which was headed for a landfill lol ) and it looked like something out of a Frankenstein movie when I was done.

I did have a real nice collection ( probably 50 pounds worth ) of QSL cards from all over the world, which were lost in a fire. ( NOT ham shack related ) Sad

The only thing left from that era radio wise here is a Realistic DX-160 shortwave, and I have not turned that on in years. < plugs power in and turns it on > Yep, it still works... Tuner is likely out of calibration and it needs a better antenna.
(01-12-2010, 04:52 AM)hilly7 Wrote: A measuring stick, lol. Sure that would have been nice but even nicer still would be a date that they were taken. Maybe it's just where I live but here if you take a picture in the winter it will show more cold related things like ice, snow, etc. In the summer it would show more summer things, like lack of snow, ice, green grass, etc.

Then again, when do most people grab their cameras... when it is a good winter scene. Jut like in the summer they grab their cameras to show good summer scenes.

There is not really much of a summer in Antartica. Undecided
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01-12-2010, 05:38 AM,
#24
RE: The mini ice age starts here
True but as 1 side experiences what would be it's version of summer, the other has it's version of winter. Point being that people naturally takes pictures depicting certain events characteristic of that particular season.
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01-12-2010, 05:59 AM, (This post was last modified: 01-12-2010, 06:08 AM by Ctrl.)
#25
RE: The mini ice age starts here
(01-12-2010, 04:52 AM)hilly7 Wrote: Then again, when do most people grab their cameras... when it is a good winter scene. Jut like in the summer they grab their cameras to show good summer scenes.

True, but then again I'm coming up on 42 y/o and except for 2 years as a trucker I've worked outdoors all day, every day in every season since I was 18. I've spent more time outdoors in the last 5 years than 99% of people would do in a lifetime, even if they lived until 90 years old. The summers were no different then than they are now.
(01-12-2010, 05:25 AM)JFK Wrote: My first CB was a Johnson Messenger 2, 10 channel unit... I did have crystals for all 23 channels and the 10 meter band at that time...
Like this one, only mine was older and did not have the 23 channel recieve tuner ( upper right knob ).

[Image: Johnson2.jpg]

My first was a mobile used a a base station. (4 watts) It was called a "Galaxy twin 23" way back when CB's only had 23 channels and not 40. It was modified for sideband. They called it a twin because it had two channel knobs and you could set it to scan back and forth between two channel. If memory serves me right it was made by Cobra.

I still use Cobra's today when I'm in a tractor-trailer. Cobra makes good radios. Smile
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01-12-2010, 06:09 AM,
#26
RE: The mini ice age starts here
(01-11-2010, 04:23 PM)JFK Wrote: Meh... a picture says a thousand words.

[Image: attachment.php?aid=3509]

LOL
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01-12-2010, 01:53 PM,
#27
RE: The mini ice age starts here
(01-12-2010, 04:12 AM)Ctrl Wrote: On another note, do you want to explain how RF propagation effects global warming? I'd LOVE TO HEAR that one! Otherwise, leave the ham radio out of it!

I almost missed this edit...

The better question would be how does sunspot activity effect RF propagation ?

And how would that affect weather ?

Wink
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01-13-2010, 06:04 AM,
#28
RE: The mini ice age starts here
Concerning the effect of CO2 as an AGW agent this paper just surfaced today. It is the best evidence to date that added CO2 does not cause warming and it is NOT based on theory! It is backed by Miskolczi's Law and Constant, which have yet to be disproven.

Quote:Hungarian Physicist Dr. Ferenc Miskolczi proves CO2 emissions irrelevant in Earth’s Climate
January 12
by Dianna Cotter

For years now, we have been told that science is dedicatedly attempting to find out how the Earth’s Climate works. With all possible seriousness, the most publically vocal of these scientists, those working for the UN’s IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change), have for the last several years blamed the warming they “found” on Carbon Dioxide. With the release of the CRU (Climatic Research Unit, University of East Anglia) email database, it is very clearly apparent that the scientists involved with the IPCC were doctoring data to give a specific result. That result was designed to look as if CO2was causing climate change, warming the earth due to Human activities. It can be reported now that this theory has been solidly disproven by Dr. Ferenc Miskolczi and Dr. Miskolczi’s work will make history.

Constants

To give context to this discovery, a short lesson in science is needed. The term “Constant” is very well known in science. Simply put it is a part of an equation (An equation is merely a mathematical sentence, the Variables are the words) that does not change; they are specific and represent solid concepts. You may have heard of Bohr’s Constant, Hubble ’s Constant, Avogadro’s Constant, there are many of them. There is a new Constant; one that has not been named, but if history is any guide it will be called the Miskolczi Constant, named for the physicist who discovered it.

A Constant we are all familiar with is the speed of light. Before Einstein and his famous theory of Relativity E=MC2, it was widely believed there was no limit on speed, just throw a rock from a speeding train and the speed will continue to add up. Einstein and his theory of Special Relativity put a specific limit on speed - the speed of light, beyond which nothing could go. There is a strict energetic limit, and we have recognized that for decades now. Before Miskolczi, it was generally thought that the greenhouse effect could be increased infinitely by adding more and more CO2 molecules into the air. Under the conditions prevailing on Earth, Miskolczi has proved that there is a limit to the greenhouse temperature that cannot be raised. Why is that? The IPCC has been telling us the exact opposite for years. Simple, because just as with Einstein’s E=MC2, there is a strict energetic limit as the Miskolczi Law proves.

Dr. Miskolczi’s Constant was discovered with a program that is the result of a project started 25 years ago in Hungary. It was then he began the process of writing a high-resolution radiative transfer program which would describe the Earth’s climate using the TIGR Global radiosonde archive of the Laboratoire de Meteorologie Dynamique, Paris database. With this information he was able to accurately describe mathematically how the atmosphere absorbs and releases heat using a long standing Equation called the Schwarzschild-Milne transfer equation to accurately calculate the Earths infrared optical depth. That is what Global climate is; the process by which Earth either holds onto or releases heat. The IPCC and the CRU scientists would have us believe that CO2 increases the heat the atmosphere holds on an infinite unlimited basis. That conclusion is absolutely false, and the CRU and the IPCC have had to falsify and invent data to make it appear that it does.

In reality water is so overwhelming abundant on Earth, it dominatingly, completely, and overwhelmingly governs the climate equilibrium of the Earth. It is 71% of the total surface area of the planet, 333 Million cubic miles (a cubic mile is an imaginary cube measuring one mile on each side) of water exist here, by far outweighing all other greenhouse gasses.

Can our climate undergo changes due to the addition of greenhouse gasses? Yes, but only under circumstances great enough to overwhelm the presence of 333 million Cubic miles of water, such as the impact of a large Asteroid and the tremendous heat it would add instantly. Carbon Dioxide is very far inside the greenhouse effect’s self-regulatory barriers. Amounts even double our current emissions, cannot overwhelm this equilibrium. Only the Sun has that immense amount of power, and only water exists in quantities large enough to effect such a change. As long as the sun’s activity is the “business-as-usual” fluctuations and there is water on Earth, CO2 cannot cause or increase global warming.

Equilibrium

In order to correctly understand why this is, it is necessary to recognize that what is important here is the equilibrium between the incoming energy from the sun (heating) and the outgoing longwave (infra red) energy (cooling). The 40% of the planet that is not cloud covered at any given time allows for solar radiation to be absorbed at the surface. The most effective form of cooling is the evaporation of water, which takes heat energy from the surface and puts it into the air. Clouds form which do three things: 1) create more cloud cover reflecting solar radiation away from the planet which also 2) releases heat into the very high upper atmosphere where it too is radiated out into space as the clouds condense into precipitation, and 3) drops much cooler water back down to the surface cooling things even further. This is an oversimplification for the sake of brevity and clarity, the interactions here are very complex as is the equation which describes it (the detailed mathematics can be found below in "The Saturated Greenhouse Effect Theory of Ferenc Miskolczi"). However, this does not change the simple fact that our planetary climate system is at equilibrium, and the Miskolczi Constant allows science to completely describe that equilibrium. For the first time, we can do so accurately with raw data, and match observed data with the results. No “hide the decline” needed when simply describing reality.

Climate scientist and fellow Hungarian, Dr. Miklos Zagoni in his paper “CO2 Cannot Cause any more “Global Warming”” dated December 2009 describes this discovery and its meaning. Dr. Zagoni beautifully sums it up all up:

“Since the Earth’s atmosphere is not lacking in greenhouse gases [water vapor], if the system could have increased its surface temperature it would have done so long before our emissions. It need not have waited for us to add CO2: another greenhouse gas, H2O, was already to hand in practically unlimited reservoirs in the oceans.”

Dr. Zagoni explains:

“Earth type planetary atmospheres, having partial cloud cover and sufficient reservoir of water; maintain an energetically uniquely determined, constant, maximized greenhouse effect that cannot be increased further by emissions. The greenhouse temperature must fluctuate around this theoretical equilibrium constant; [change] is possible only if the incoming available energy changes.”

Let’s get more basic in dismantling the IPCC’s “theory” of climate. If one takes Earth’s greenhouse gasses away, the planet would be about -18 degrees C (-64.4 Degrees F) on a global average. Add in the greenhouse gasses and their influence back in using the Miskolczi Constant and you get a 33 degree C increase to 15 degrees C (59 Degrees F). This value is constant, and maximized on a global scale. It also matches observed data. Raw data, not manipulated or computer processed data. Using Miskolczi’s law and constant, there is no need for manipulated data, only the real observations, and that is the reason this discovery is so significant. If you double the amount of current CO2 emissions and add that to the equation, and you cannot come up with the 35 to 38 Degree C increase that the IPCC and Al Gore have been preaching about. It is physically and mathematically impossible, and thanks to the Miskolczi Law and Constant, provable and repeatable by scientists the world over.

Miskolczi's Law and Constant yet to be disproven

Dr. Miskolczi first published his work in the Quarterly Journal of the Hungarian Meteorological Services in 2004, Volume 108, No 4. He published further statistical proof in the same Journal in 2007, Volume 111, No. 1. In the 5 years since he first published his results, not one peer review has come back disproving his theory, or his Constant. To date, not one scientist has come forward to disprove Miskolczi’s theory that the Earth’s climate is at equilibrium, and that Carbon Dioxide cannot be released in amounts great enough to upset that equilibrium.

“During the 61-year period, in correspondence with the rise in CO2 concentration, the global average absolute humidity diminished about 1 per cent. This decrease in absolute humidity has exactly countered all of the warming effect that our CO2 emissions have had since 1948.” – Dr. M. Zagoni

In short, according to Dr. Miskolczi’s discovery, Earth’s temperature will not rise or fall as a result of increasing CO2 emissions because of the inherent equilibrium created by our oceans upon oceans of water.

Author’s addendum

This discovery is proof that the IPCC has been lying to the world, along with the CRU and other agencies which have been pushing for programs such as Carbon Cap and Trade schemes. That scheme was designed to coerce peoples and governments into handing over tax dollars for the UN to manage and redistribute as it sees fit. Carbon Dioxide emissions cannot cause Global Warming. Government agencies including the US Federal Government and the White House continue to push this issue as a prelude to instituting a Cap and Trade Tax scheme here in the United States, and it is based upon fraudulent science.

A segment of the scientific community has had its credibility usurped for what amounts to fraud and embezzlement, and indeed went along willingly in order to continue to receive funding for their grant programs for decades. In other words they “produced” predetermined results according to what the check writers wanted to see in order to keep their jobs. Their own internal emails prove that. That’s not Science, which describes reality as it is. That is Science Fiction, and should be condemned as the fraud that it is.

The American Government, and governments the world over, should be prevented at all costs from instituting Cap and Trade Taxation. Reducing carbon emissions, taxing them into oblivion, will not alter the Earth’s climate in the least. It will however beggar this Nation and its citizens, every other nation which institutes it, and have no effect on the climate at all.

UPDATE: Sometimes the greatest evidence of the truth being told is the persecution of those discovering it and telling it, particularly when that truth damns those in power as being corrupt:

http://geoplasma.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!C00F2616F39D0B2B!895.entry
http://www.examiner.com/x-7715-Portland-Civil-Rights-Examiner~y2010m1d12-Hungarian-Physicist-Dr-Ferenc-Miskolczi-proves-CO2-emissions-irrelevant-in-Earths-Climate

Referenced Documents:

The Saturated Greenhouse Effect Theory of Ferenc Miskolczi
http://www.scribd.com/doc/25071132/The-Saturated-Greenhouse-Effect-Theory-of-Ferenc-Miskolczi

Saturated Greenhouse Effect Theory
http://www.scribd.com/doc/25071473/Saturated-Greenhouse-Effect-Theory
Pardon the double post but I figured this was relevant to the thread and worthy of some lulz.

Quote:“In addition to the global warming challenges, we need to address 'global cooling' effects and to do so promptly,” he said.

In his opinion Russia has proved prepared for the cold weather better than many Western European countries.

“Yet, our own problems are many, too. Many are due to the breakdowns of thermal power trunk pipelines. We need to oversee the process, to promptly react in case of any failure and provide support for municipalities and regions,” Putin said.
Full article: http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2.html?NewsID=14708752&PageNum=0
There are no others, there is only us.
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01-14-2010, 12:00 PM,
#29
RE: The mini ice age starts here
(01-11-2010, 11:12 PM)FastTadpole Wrote: In light of Microsoft being brought up, allow me to present the The Stratoshield by Nathan Myhrvold and how he intends to to save the planet (with video).
http://www.techflash.com/seattle/2009/10/video_nathan_myhrvold_explains_how_to_save_the_world.html

brilliant! /s

I thought this was laughable but it seems their is some serious consideration for investment in this Shocked

Quote:Geoengineering Conference To Discuss Blocking Sun
Paul Joseph Watson
Wednesday, January 13, 2010

As hundreds of people die worldwide as a result of record low temperatures in the midst of a savage winter, scientists are preparing for a conference in which they will discuss measures to use geoengineering to block out the sun.

“The summit of climate scientists, to be held in California in March, will examine drastic techniques for slowing climate change that are controversial and have been described as “geo-piracy,” reports the Telegraph.

“Most techniques focus on ways of reducing the sun’s rays by blocking them using mirrors orbiting in space or by spraying sulphur compounds into the high atmosphere to reflect sunlight away from earth.”

Another proposal involves sending spaceships into the upper atmosphere to spray seawater into the sky and reflect sunlight back into space, an idea that would seem more at home in the context of some bizarre alien invasion movie.

“Most of the talk about these geo-engineering techniques say they should be saved until we get to an emergency situation. Well, the people of the Arctic might say they are in an emergency situation now,” said conference organizer Mike MacCracken.

In actual fact, a recent expedition to an East Antarctic ice shelf showed “no sign of higher temperatures despite fears of a thaw linked to global warming”. In addition, Arctic sea ice expanded over an area bigger than the size of Germany during the year of 2008, a 30 per cent increase, after global warming alarmists had claimed that it would be “ice-free” for the first time ever.

With areas all over the planet experiencing record snowfall and plunging temperatures, some scientists are warning that we are now entering into a mini ice age, with 30 years of global cooling predicted.

Governments are already geoengineering the planet in the form of cloud seeding and similar techniques to both cause and prevent rainfall. Many would argue that the upper atmosphere is already being seeded with chemical compounds in the form of chemtrails, which differ from normal contrails emitted by airplanes as they hang in the air for hours and produce criss-cross patterns.

A 2008 KSLA news investigation found that a substance that fell to earth from a high altitude chemtrail contained high levels of Barium (6.8 ppm) and Lead (8.2 ppm) as well as trace amounts of other chemicals including arsenic, chromium, cadmium, selenium and silver. Of these, all but one are metals, some are toxic while several are rarely or never found in nature. The newscast focuses on Barium, which its research shows is a “hallmark of chemtrails.” KSLA found Barium levels in its samples at 6.8 ppm or “more than six times the toxic level set by the EPA.”

KSLA also asked Mark Ryan, Director of the Poison Control Center, about the effects of Barium on the human body. Ryan commented that “short term exposure can lead to anything from stomach to chest pains and that long term exposure causes blood pressure problems.” The Poison Control Center further reported that long-term exposure, as with any harmful substance, would contribute to weakening the immune system, which many speculate is the purpose of such man-made chemical trails.

As we have previously highlighted, a prominent supporter of geoengineering proposals is none other than White House science czar John P. Holdren, a key Obama advisor who infamously co-authored a book in which he called for a “planetary regime” to enforce draconian population control measures such as forced abortion, infanticide and mandatory sterilization.

In April last year, Holdren revealed that high-level talks had already taken place to explore the possibility of “geoengineering” the environment by “shooting pollution particles into the upper atmosphere to reflect the sun’s rays”.

“It’s got to be looked at,” Holdren was quoted as saying, “We don’t have the luxury of taking any approach off the table.” The AP also reported that Holdren said he had raised the concept in administration discussions.

Letting modern day eugenicists like Holdren mess with the planet would be like handing Dr. Josef Mengele control of the health care system. Holdren has proven himself to be a barbarian and a control freak, promoting a brand of bloodthirsty eugenics even more depraved than anything Hitler proposed in his drive for a super race.

Allowing scientists who have been completely exposed as agenda-promoting quacks by the Climategate scandal to experiment with the environment on a mass scale in the name of stopping the increasingly debunked premise of man-made global warming is absolute lunacy and should be stopped at all costs.
http://www.infowars.com/geoengineering-conference-to-discuss-blocking-sun/
There are no others, there is only us.
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