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Life After Death
10-11-2006, 11:06 AM,
#31
Life After Death
I personally like the holographic idea.

I don't really think life or death are pertinent in regards to consciousness.

If you beleive that time is plyable, then these two points on this linear line are meaningless.

That's the fatal flaw, no pun intended, behind most beleif systems when it comes to this.

We (humans) can't recognize anything beyond 3 dimensions.

The further physics progresses, the more humans will see that worrying about these things is useless and haphazard.

It's also not good to preoccupy ones self with something they cannot control.

The simple fact is no one has the right answer at this time.

And IMHO, I think humans will reach a level of consciousness that allows us to break our material bond.

There is a lot of anecdotal evidence showing people that have ESP, PK, TK and so on.

This is beyond our 3D understanding, yet it's here, although these are only fragments of what could be a greater whole.

Once we get to a higher stage, life and death won't be a worry to us, just anatural happening.

Any ways, people who try to promote Life after death, are most likely scared shitless of dying or regret their life choices in regards to accomplishments or actions and things they themselves deem as unsatisfactory.

On the other hand someone who beleives in nothing, is bluffing, a painful realist, or just doesn't give a shit.

Let's learn a lesson from Buddha, and take the middle path.

I mean polarity is what makes our political system such a succesful sham. Divide an conquer, you knw?
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10-11-2006, 06:38 PM,
#32
Life After Death
Psilocybin, your post has really made me think about some things, thankyou.

I think you are missing something but I don't know how to explain it very well.

The thing I noticed was you said this regarding life and death:

If you believe that time is pliable, then these two points on this linear line are meaningless.

This statement makes me wonder if you agree that time is both static and pliable depending on how you look at it. You may have a model for time not being a regulated 2d flow but if you always used that one you would not be able to hold down a job among other things. It reminds me of the wave vs particle thing. Models are not the thing they represent so you can have more than one, different from each other but still right and varying in use from context to context. In fact from this perspective I think it's a richer man that believes in more than one model, and so nothing exclusively.

To me this seems like the middle path.

I think it even beats divide and conquer ;)
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10-11-2006, 07:27 PM,
#33
Life After Death
Mekon its true DMT is present in the brain but no one knows what its functions really are - DMT is a neuroactive compound that creates hallucinations, it is not realeased when a person has an NDE or is bad injured cuz its not a pain killer. The drug that gets all the blame for the NDE is ketamine - but if you study the ketamine (or special k:)) problem you will see that not all the persons using this sedative (and hallucinogen) will get the tunnel and light thing but all the real NDE (withouth sedatives or not) persons get the same thing no matter what culture or religion belief and the stranger part is when blind ppl have NDE and see for the first time or deaf ppl hear etc, or ppl having diferent unexplained revelations etc like seing ppl you never meet and later finding out they are you unknown lost son etc. Strage things, unexplained things happen with NDE that doctors dont have any answers!
&Many people would sooner die than think; in fact they do so!& - Bertrand Russell
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10-12-2006, 01:23 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-12-2006, 01:24 PM by DHammer.)
#34
Life After Death
Why would I start believing in a cosmic monster? To fill in some gaps?
Because it tells you it happened ... ? Also, what gaps are you talking about ? Are there any that need to be filled ? That book simply states some events, it never asked you nor me if we like them or not. It's up to us to find out if they`re true.


Have I researched the topic? in a halfhearted way I suppose, just to see if it approaches believeabilty for me and it doesn't.


exactly, men in general are too biased to put aside their pre-conceived ideas and approach the Bible with an opened heart.


So what is the motive for relating this? Is the person who wrote this trying to make believe that we are superior to other animals?

but we are ! are we not ? can animals write books ? can animals extinguish an entire species like man can ? not really

Quote:What does this mean? well I would like to ask the author who is refered to in "us".

Well the Author does explain who those other "persons" were in the New Testament. The Trinity. It existed from eternity past.
Quote:What at this stage is refered to as "man"?
man. the same word was used to refer to Moses, Joshua, or Jesus. I see no proof that Adam was different.

Quote:When they say in our image do they mean it litterally as in "a mirror image of us with no discernable difference"? Does "after our likeness" mean "exactly the same" or "roughly similar" or even "not like us at all to the casual observer"?
it means what it says. In our image (not 1% or 50% , but IN OUR IMAGE) and in our likeness.
you made a good point however, was it talking about a physical likeness or a spiritual likeness ? Again, this can be answered by doing a small study.
Quote:why does someone have to make us?
because nothingness cannot create anything. the universe does not evolve, nor is there any proof of that. the evolution theory is just that, a theory.
Quote:it's not possible to "fully" understand. But that doesn't mean we have to make up something to fill in the gap
exactly ! like the evolution theory !
Quote:You have to be happy with never reaching a solid conclusion if you are going to think about things like "how did I get here?" and "what is here?"
I wholeheartedly disagree. This is the most fundamental question that men is supposed to answer. Playing the game of life is exactly what we are not supposed to do. Get out of the box.
Quote:There can't be any whole answers, there is always further room for thought.
in a atheistic world ,yes :rolleyes:
Quote:takes some of that "looking for authority" edge off it, please excuse my criticism.
i never thought a simple question like that can,in any way, offend ;)
Quote:"What exactly does it mean?" with one word - "nothing".
ok, now I think I understand why you see the Bible's creation "logic" as "silly". lack of desire for the things of God.
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

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10-13-2006, 04:40 PM,
#35
Life After Death
Quote:Mekon its true DMT is present in the brain but no one knows what its functions really are - DMT is a neuroactive compound that creates hallucinations, it is not realeased when a person has an NDE or is bad injured cuz its not a pain killer. The drug that gets all the blame for the NDE is ketamine - but if you study the ketamine (or special k:)) problem you will see that not all the persons using this sedative (and hallucinogen) will get the tunnel and light thing but all the real NDE (withouth sedatives or not) persons get the same thing no matter what culture or religion belief and the stranger part is when blind ppl have NDE and see for the first time or deaf ppl hear etc, or ppl having diferent unexplained revelations etc like seing ppl you never meet and later finding out they are you unknown lost son etc. Strage things, unexplained things happen with NDE that doctors dont have any answers!

Are you certain that DMT is not released or mass produced during an NDE or is that your assumption on the basis that it is not a painkiller?

Testing one way or the other would be unethical for a scientific study becuase they'd have to clinically kill people.

If you're up to it you might want to check it out for yourself, at least that way when you die you have a chance to see whether it is similar to your experience of DMT or not.
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10-13-2006, 05:09 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-13-2006, 05:11 PM by The Mekon.)
#36
Life After Death
Quote:Why would I start believing in a cosmic monster? To fill in some gaps?
Because it tells you it happened ... ? Also, what gaps are you talking about ? Are there any that need to be filled ? That book simply states some events, it never asked you nor me if we like them or not. It's up to us to find out if they`re true.

So the cosmic monster told you that the cosmic monster exists. First hand? Or did you read it?

If it's up to us to find out if the events mentioned in the bible actually happened or not why do you think you have the answer?

BTW I am not an atheist, they seem as silly as you. I am a model agnostic and religion is just another model to me, so if you can show me some useful output for reading that book and creating an imaginary friend then please do. If your model achieves something that I value then I'll try it out. Don't presume to know what I value just outline the benefits as you see them but in plain english and I'll see what I think.

Don't give me the "get into heaven" shit please, I mean things that you have actually experienced. Stronger would be those things you see in your self and other xtians and that they confirm they see in you.

Sell it to me!:)
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10-14-2006, 07:38 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-14-2006, 07:41 PM by DHammer.)
#37
Life After Death
First of all there is no indication OR proof that God is a "monster". If we are to talk about the Bible let's do so like grown up men, not some spoiled kids :(
Quote:BTW I am not an atheist, they seem as silly as you.
i am so sick of this attitude I could trow up right now. this alone makes me just delete the post and have an "just forget it " attitude. why must you call me silly ? because our views are contradictory ? if you are truly searching for the truth you will listen to all the views with the same interest.
Quote:Don't give me the "get into heaven" shit please, I mean things that you have actually experienced. Stronger would be those things you see in your self and other xtians and that they confirm they see in you.
I have no idea what you`re talking about.
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Reply
10-15-2006, 03:34 PM,
#38
Life After Death
Quote:First of all there is no indication OR proof that God is a "monster". If we are to talk about the Bible let's do so like grown up men, not some spoiled kids :(
Quote:BTW I am not an atheist, they seem as silly as you.
i am so sick of this attitude I could trow up right now. this alone makes me just delete the post and have an "just forget it " attitude. why must you call me silly ? because our views are contradictory ? if you are truly searching for the truth you will listen to all the views with the same interest.
Quote:Don't give me the "get into heaven" shit please, I mean things that you have actually experienced. Stronger would be those things you see in your self and other xtians and that they confirm they see in you.
I have no idea what you`re talking about.

The defenition of monster in case you haven't checked is this http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/monster

The bits I found relevant were:
A very large animal, plant, or object.
An animal or plant of abnormal form or structure.

I place it's natural habitat as the cosmos and so I call it cosmic monster.

Seems fine to me and I am not whinging about you calling it God so who's not being grown up here? Maybe you have been spoilt in your previous conversations, you seem to expect people to use your name for it.

A very wise friend once said to me "If I call you stupid and it hurts, you are!". The reason you have to be stupid to be hurt by that kind of association is that it is an unrealistic association. Stupid or silly is not a possible quality of a person, they only work as descriptive words for acitivities. The level of generalisation required to use silly or stupid as a term to describe a person in their entirety makes the description incredibly inaccurate and useless. So, when I call you stupid I mean that is how I find your behaviour to be with regard to something specific. In other words when I call you silly I think you are doing something badly. In this case I find your assumption that god exists stupid or silly in the same way I find atheists stupid or silly for assuming he doesn't. The most silly or stupid thing about the decision to assume that that god exists is that theists then pretend it's not an assumption just like atheists do with their view.

I wonder if you understood that. I hope you did. I don't want you hurting yourself.

If you are truly searching for the truth you don't walk around with your mind so open your brains fall out. If you told me God exists and I said "Oh, well I better start going to church on sundays" that would be my brains falling out of my open mind. I'd be a con artists dream target. Also you have to be fairly thick-skinned otherwise you will avoid the truth where it hurts. If it hurt so much that I couldn't listen to you talk about God as if your belief somehow makes you superior to other people then I couldn't find out much from people like you in my search for truth.

Which brings me nicely to your last point.

I wasn't clear enough for you to realise I was asking about what you get from belief in God.

I want to know why you believe in God but in non religious terms.

Stuff like "my version of christianity makes makes me feel good when I think about blah blah" or "-when I perform such and such a ritual" or even "has helped me cope with such and such a trauma" etc. would really help me see where you are coming from.

Contrastingly, saying something like "my version of christianty scores me brownie points with the creator" doesn't work because like everyone else who hasn't taken up religion I don't have a creator I care about as a part of my reality.

I want you to be specific about the benefits you experience for yourself that you percieve as coming from your belief in God.

Did that make sense?

If you can present benefits that make it seem useful to me then i'd appreciate it.
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10-16-2006, 01:25 AM, (This post was last modified: 10-16-2006, 01:34 AM by DHammer.)
#39
Life After Death
Quote:The bits I found relevant were:
A very large animal, plant, or object.
An animal or plant of abnormal form or structure.

I place it's natural habitat as the cosmos and so I call it cosmic monster.
Then you sir are ignorant at what the Bible has to say. God has NO size, the universe itself cannot contain Him , for He is infinite. He is not "big" nor is he a "very large animal plant or object".

Quote:Seems fine to me and I am not whinging about you calling it God so who's not being grown up here?
You just called God a monster and you expect me to answer on a normal tone ?
Quote:Maybe you have been spoilt in your previous conversations, you seem to expect people to use your name for it.
I expect people to be polite towards other's views. Ma'am , sir , man, mister, I don't care what your views regarding the person I am are, they are meaningless...

Quote:I wonder if you understood that. I hope you did. I don't want you hurting yourself.
I can smell the arrogance in that sentence from 10 thousand kilometers away, right from Romania. That statement alone tells me that the next 10 hours of conversation I`ll have with you will be in vain, for you will never change your views, no matter what proof I present or offer you.


And you know, now that I think about it, Jesus, when He was asked by the rich man "Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" He simply replied to Him and after that rich man saddened and left the scene,so did Jesus,He MOVED ON ! He did not RAN after that person to tell him : HEY !!! WON'T YOU RECONSIDER ???? WHAT IF I'M RIGHT ?

Nor will I ...

there are others who thirst for truth and seek righteousness above all and frankly i am not worthy to even open my mouth and preach to them, but enough of me.
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Reply
10-16-2006, 04:56 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-16-2006, 05:05 PM by The Mekon.)
#40
Life After Death
DHammer

So you admit you are trying to change peoples views so they conform with yours?

That is not a "search for truth" it is quite the opposite and so you sir are a liar!

You are offended at the true name of the creator (for me) because for you it has negative connotations?

If your word God had negative connotations for me would you stop using it? Well it does, so will you stop using christian names for it?

You are polite towards the views of others? No you're not and so I feel like I am merely engaging with you at your level. I am not a christian but it is surprising for me to see that your main focus for demeaning insults is other christians. Whatever they believe and however they feel you are confident that calling them "not christians" because they disagree with you (you taking the bible and all it's contradictions literally) is being polite. Who are you to decide what a christian besides yourself should believe? The answer to this is you are noone. You are not God and you are not them. You should impress upon yourself the truth of your own fallibility, all humans are in no endeavor perfect, or do you presume to be as knowing as God in this regard? Your interpretation of the Bible is no way near perfect, do not think or pretend it is.

"Ma'am , sir , man, mister, I don't care what your views regarding the person I am are, they are meaningless..."

Was your medication running out when you wrote that? Or did I offend you so much your brain stopped working? Perhaps you mean that you are not interested in my judgement of you as a person? Well, like you I am not in a position to judge anyone as a person the difference, it seems to me, is that I realise it and you don't yet. My judgement of you as a person would be as meaningless as yours of me as a person.

You envisaged 10 hours of me listening to you spout religious rhetoric? You live in a dream world. Thank goodness I made that statement. That note you ended on about jesus not harassing people with his beliefs. I think you could learn a lot from that, think about it some more.

BTW Romania isn't 10,000k away from wet little england, and to think I thought you were american (sorry america!).

Best wishes

The Mekon
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10-16-2006, 05:44 PM,
#41
Life After Death
Quote:
Quote:The bits I found relevant were:
A very large animal, plant, or object.
An animal or plant of abnormal form or structure.

I place it's natural habitat as the cosmos and so I call it cosmic monster.
Then you sir are ignorant at what the Bible has to say. God has NO size, the universe itself cannot contain Him , for He is infinite. He is not "big" nor is he a "very large animal plant or object".

Quote:Seems fine to me and I am not whinging about you calling it God so who's not being grown up here?
You just called God a monster and you expect me to answer on a normal tone ?
Quote:Maybe you have been spoilt in your previous conversations, you seem to expect people to use your name for it.
I expect people to be polite towards other's views. Ma'am , sir , man, mister, I don't care what your views regarding the person I am are, they are meaningless...

Quote:I wonder if you understood that. I hope you did. I don't want you hurting yourself.
I can smell the arrogance in that sentence from 10 thousand kilometers away, right from Romania. That statement alone tells me that the next 10 hours of conversation I`ll have with you will be in vain, for you will never change your views, no matter what proof I present or offer you.


And you know, now that I think about it, Jesus, when He was asked by the rich man "Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" He simply replied to Him and after that rich man saddened and left the scene,so did Jesus,He MOVED ON ! He did not RAN after that person to tell him : HEY !!! WON'T YOU RECONSIDER ???? WHAT IF I'M RIGHT ?

Nor will I ...

there are others who thirst for truth and seek righteousness above all and frankly i am not worthy to even open my mouth and preach to them, but enough of me.


Jesus (if he was a real entity) was a product of rape and manipulated into his destiny by a mother that told him he was the son of god.

When you folks are done hiding behind your sheild of a storybook and magic spells of the mixed interpretation of same, you let me know.

Or let me know when you are gonna start preaching Dr. Seuss...its the same diff.
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10-18-2006, 01:53 PM,
#42
Life After Death
Quote:Jesus (if he was a real entity) was a product of rape and manipulated into his destiny by a mother that told him he was the son of god.

A word to wise.

Whatever you do, never blaspheme about God or any of his prophets. If you don't know or you don't agree with what you are told, keep quite and wait till someone comes to teach you or let the God lead you to the way.

I am saying this with full sincerity. No offense meant!
Salem Kirban quotes Weishaupt gloating over his successes in a letter to Illuminatus Cato:

The most admirable thing of all is that great Protestant and reformed theologians [Lutherans and Calvinists] who belong to our Order really believe they see in it the true and genuine mind of the Christian religion. Oh man, what can not you be brought to believe?

These people swell our numbers and fill our treasury; get busy and make these people nibble at our bait.. .but do not tell them our secrets. They must be made to believe that the low degree that they have reached is the highest
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10-18-2006, 01:59 PM,
#43
Life After Death
Uh...all of the prophets were men who decided to push their body to the limit with sleep, food and water deprivation as well as exposure to the elements. Their stories are those of visions under these conditions as the medicine men and warroirs of more primative civilizations.

It just so happens they got written up.

How about you open your mind to another prophet named Thomas, who, unlike the other prophets, witnessed this Jesus man.

And was proud to report back no miracles and that 2,000 other jews were crucified around the same time.

He, is now a martyr in India.

God did show me...thats why they killed Jesus, because he knew too much and his answers werent going to keep people down.

They hated that.
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10-18-2006, 02:07 PM,
#44
Life After Death
'The Mekon' date='Oct 9 2006, 06:36 PM' post='14966'

Quote:why would I believe what I read in a book?
No you are not supposed to believe in everything but you are supposed to test it. No one pushes you to believe certain things. If you have will to know, you go on search. If you can trust someone else's research, this will save you lot of time and you'll move forward.

Quote:explained by the drugs that are released into the body when it loses all hope
You'll hear this 'assumption' from History, national Geo, BBC type of confusing docu's. People were clinicallt Dead. Sometimes for minutes, sometimes for hours. No modern equipment was able to find any vital signs. Remember, some of the researchers are doctors. Scientific minded people and as far as i know very few of them are religious.

Quote:Can you give me an example and tell me who proved it "right" and how
I think if i tell you, you still are not going to believe in it. Besides, its a long subject of what I found correct in those books. For some ppl, teaching or preaching works. For some, 'Discovery' leads them to believe in certain concept or information. I guess you are second kind. Its better for you to discover the things for yourself.
Salem Kirban quotes Weishaupt gloating over his successes in a letter to Illuminatus Cato:

The most admirable thing of all is that great Protestant and reformed theologians [Lutherans and Calvinists] who belong to our Order really believe they see in it the true and genuine mind of the Christian religion. Oh man, what can not you be brought to believe?

These people swell our numbers and fill our treasury; get busy and make these people nibble at our bait.. .but do not tell them our secrets. They must be made to believe that the low degree that they have reached is the highest
Reply
10-18-2006, 02:15 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-18-2006, 02:24 PM by lovelyk.)
#45
Life After Death
Quote:one of prophecy
No i don't base my faith on prophecies.
Besides, prophecies in all religions became true. some of them are future related and we can only guess.

My personal belief is that there is no fix future. Yet there's a fix future.

You see, maybe i can see one 'timeline'. You are able to see another timeline. Now it depends on free will and free choice of humans to adopt a certain time line. It is possible that a Prophet or a Saint or someone highly knowledgeable can "predict' a future based upon his awareness of our choices.

Its hard to explain in words. Just take it as you are on one side of a mountain and can see a view of the valley. I am on the other side and i see totally different view. Now there's a third person on the top of the mountain who can see on all sides. He is MORE AWARE than both of us.
Salem Kirban quotes Weishaupt gloating over his successes in a letter to Illuminatus Cato:

The most admirable thing of all is that great Protestant and reformed theologians [Lutherans and Calvinists] who belong to our Order really believe they see in it the true and genuine mind of the Christian religion. Oh man, what can not you be brought to believe?

These people swell our numbers and fill our treasury; get busy and make these people nibble at our bait.. .but do not tell them our secrets. They must be made to believe that the low degree that they have reached is the highest
Reply


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