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How Do We Know That Christians Are Delusional?
10-16-2006, 04:49 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-16-2006, 04:51 PM by standvast.)
#31
How Do We Know That Christians Are Delusional?
Quote:Had a look at the WPM site. So Pantheism is "I want to use more superflous ways of describing the majesty of nature, and I think these guys were pantheists too!"

I don't care much for the world pantheist movement, as i think Pantheism is above
all other influence , a very personal philosophy or belief, whichever one prefers.
It's not at all about superfluous descriptions, it's about nuance and relations
to various envisioned workings of inner nature, be it of oneself [a person] or oneself [the Universe]
The examples often used of certain great thinkers entertaining pantheist ideas or
proclaiming to view nature to be The creative drive in and around everything, can
be usefull as an example of how pantheism can appeal to what are percieved as logical , rational thinkers,
as opposed to it being a doctrinal or faith based religion , as people new to it's concepts may think it to be.

There is more to [one's inner and thus all outer] nature than most people dare imagine,
reverance of it is not prime to [my version of] pantheism, it is rather a constant drive to realize
how inner and outer nature correspond, and how they coinside , interact in intricate relationship,
and are in the end ALL ONE. [in source]

Quote:No thanks, that'd imply there's still someone with Authority over me. Atheism is much like Anarchy in the sense that there are no leaders, there are influential people who have worthwhile things to say, but I am not going to prostrate myself to them. The idea of doing that to an entirely fictional entity is absurdity, that would be comical, if it wern't for it's violent and bigoted past.

No it doesn't imply that there is any authority figure at all.
Pantheism has no leaders either, at least not in my interpretation of it, there is no
highest authority on what pantheism can be/ is /isn't. There are just as you state above,
Influential people who all have their ideas and views on it,.not one of those views
are either the sole correct one or the authoritive one.

peace'
standvast.
If Thine I that I spy with my own little I Doeth Offend thee ; Pluck It out.

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10-17-2006, 02:37 AM, (This post was last modified: 10-17-2006, 02:38 AM by deathstickboy.)
#32
How Do We Know That Christians Are Delusional?
Quote:Had a look at the WPM site. So Pantheism is "I want to use more superflous ways of describing the majesty of nature, and I think these guys were pantheists too!"

No thanks, that'd imply there's still someone with Authority over me. Atheism is much like Anarchy in the sense that there are no leaders, there are influential people who have worthwhile things to say, but I am not going to prostrate myself to them. The idea of doing that to an entirely fictional entity is absurdity, that would be comical, if it wern't for it's violent and bigoted past.

Actually its a good deal more than that, the WPM site is just one small and modern example. Taoist philosophy is one example of Pantheism, perhaps the oldest.

Is your disdain for religion or spiritual philiosphy in general derived from the fear that ANYTHING might have authority over you?
Does a tidal wave have "authority" over you? What about your DNA? :rolleyes:

Please enlighten me as to the violent and bigotted past of Taoism? Can you tell me about any Buddhist holy wars?

I don't care if you are atheist or not, but you really need to stop putting all theists in the same boat they way you do, its an incredibly bigotted thing to do. You know, such behavior is by no means limited to "religion" you should know better than that. The ideology with highest body count in the last century was Atheistic Communism last time I checked.
Wyrd bi∂ ful aræd : Vituð ér enn eða hvat?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[Image: madwolfoy0.jpg][Image: sharksmall1kd6.jpg][Image: bearkodiakchugachfe7.jpg]
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10-17-2006, 04:41 AM,
#33
How Do We Know That Christians Are Delusional?
Oh nose! I'm being called a bigot by a theist. As for buddhist terrorism, it happens. The Dalai Lama has taken money and resources from the CIA to fund a Tibetian "liberation force" so that the Tibetans can be freed from Chinese slavery, and brought back to pesantry serving the monk ruling class, far from the teachings of the Dharma.

All religions corrupt. All religions have leaders, who are influencial people, and are not always benelovent. This is why we have the Pope covering up rampant child abuse (pedophillia is not an accurate term, I doubt most of those priests love the children, rather lust for them) and misguided Abdollah's calling for the extermination of the Jews, and Zionist Rabbi's demanding the streets flow with the blood of all those who oppose Israel.

People who ascribe to a religion are setting themselves up to being a target for ridicule for their delusional belifes and ostracised for associating with violent, cruel and disgusting behavior as described in their various religious texts. It'll take time, but humanity will wake up and accept they do not need to submit to gods, nor tyrants, real or imagined. Only then can we be free. An enslaved race is dangerous, and will lash out against it's captors, in turn, the captors will punish them. And the cycle continues, a self perpetuating system that distracts people from what they should be doing, furthering human progress, eliminating all barriers to that progress, tyranny, bigotry, ignorance and fear.
[Image: warprofiteers.jpg]
“I am truly free only when all human beings, men and women, are equally free.
The freedom of other men, far from negating or limiting my freedom, is, on the contrary,
its necessary premise and confirmation.” - Mikhael Bakunin
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10-17-2006, 04:57 AM, (This post was last modified: 10-17-2006, 04:59 AM by deathstickboy.)
#34
How Do We Know That Christians Are Delusional?
Yes I am calling you a bigot, its as clear as the nose on your face. Tibetan Resistance fighters eh?
OOhh big terrorism there, still doesnt compare to the over 50 million killed by Mao's atheistic communism now does it?
Considering that the chinese are engaging in genocide, I think you can hardly cite them as big bad terrorists for taking some CIA money. Anyways the Dali Lama is a joke and he is clearly manipulated by TPTB, besides he does not represnt buddhism as a whole, just Tibetan Buddhism. Besides that, how is the Buddhist theocracy bigotted, intolerant and oppressive?
Can you think of any more examples of "buddhist holy wars"? The Tibeten situation is arguably about more than just religion, but culture as well.

You see, spirituality and philosophy are different from religion, I agree that religion and infact all forms of ideological dogma are harmful to mankind, that much is obvious. However the disdain with which you slander anyone with spiritual beliefs is evidence of your own ideological prejudice. The more you try to justify your ideas as "the only rational perspective" the more you sound like those religious nuts you are trying to equate me with. I find it highly amusing you don't see the irony or dare I say hypocracy in that.

Anyways, atheism is clearly no bulwark against ideological insanity and mass murder taking any spiritual philosophy out does nothing to reduce the death toll, and generally tends to treat human beings in ways that are equally if not even more dehumanizing and crushing the human spirit.
Oh shit, I guess you don't believe in a "human spirit":rolleyes:
Wyrd bi∂ ful aræd : Vituð ér enn eða hvat?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[Image: madwolfoy0.jpg][Image: sharksmall1kd6.jpg][Image: bearkodiakchugachfe7.jpg]
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10-17-2006, 05:33 AM,
#35
How Do We Know That Christians Are Delusional?
Quote:Yes I am calling you a bigot, its as clear as the nose on your face. Tibetan Resistance fighters eh?
OOhh big terrorism there, still doesnt compare to the over 50 million killed by Mao's atheistic communism now does it?
Considering that the chinese are engaging in genocide, I think you can hardly cite them as big bad terrorists for taking some CIA money. Anyways the Dali Lama is a joke and he is clearly manipulated by TPTB, besides he does not represnt buddhism as a whole, just Tibetan Buddhism. Besides that, how is the Buddhist theocracy bigotted, intolerant and oppressive?
Can you think of any more examples of "buddhist holy wars"? The Tibeten situation is arguably about more than just religion, but culture as well.

You see, spirituality and philosophy are different from religion, I agree that religion and infact all forms of ideological dogma are harmful to mankind, that much is obvious. However the disdain with which you slander anyone with spiritual beliefs is evidence of your own ideological prejudice. The more you try to justify your ideas as "the only rational perspective" the more you sound like those religious nuts you are trying to equate me with. I find it highly amusing you don't see the irony or dare I say hypocracy in that.

Anyways, atheism is clearly no bulwark against ideological insanity and mass murder taking any spiritual philosophy out does nothing to reduce the death toll, and generally tends to treat human beings in ways that are equally if not even more dehumanizing and crushing the human spirit.
Oh shit, I guess you don't believe in a "human spirit":rolleyes:

Ditto

Quote:Oh nose! I'm being called a bigot by a theist. As for buddhist terrorism, it happens. The Dalai Lama has taken money and resources from the CIA to fund a Tibetian "liberation force" so that the Tibetans can be freed from Chinese slavery, and brought back to pesantry serving the monk ruling class, far from the teachings of the Dharma.

To bad you got two storys mixed into one, the so called dalai lama that was kidnapped and reappeared was a puppet put in by the globalist, do you not know that?
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10-17-2006, 09:17 AM,
#36
How Do We Know That Christians Are Delusional?
Everyone likes to trot out Mao and Stalin as symbols of athiestic killers. The reality of it is that these guys rightfully realized the danger to their own rule posed by religion... just like anything else which gathers and concentrates people under a common cause or belief and leaves them vulnerable to the control and manipulation of the most charasmatic 'leader' that comes along. This has nothing to do with an atheistic worldview and everything to do with cutting out those who might pose a threat to power.
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10-17-2006, 12:53 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-17-2006, 12:56 PM by standvast.)
#37
How Do We Know That Christians Are Delusional?
Quote:Oh nose! I'm being called a bigot by a theist.

First time? ,

The first Dalai Lama was appointed by Kublai Khan,[Grandson of Genghis Kahn]
who was a Mongol Military leader and the first emperor of China's Yuan dynasty...
China has for a very long time controlled or indirectly influenced tibet, the control of
the monestary and state was in old time controlled by the Chinese, and there was no
independent rule "by tibetans for tibetans" ever.
"China" appointed the first Dalai Lama.

it was only in the communist era that the big clashes arose which have a lot to do with
the desecration of the Lands, the customs and belief systems of the Tibetan people.
As the US saw an enemy in communist China they supported or tried to shape and arm
armies or militias of anyone who would join the "fight against communism",
they did this all over the world and still do.

The CIA funded Tibetan resistance was a big failure, Tibetans never fought much at all,
though there have been battles between monasteries or for control of a School,
or incidents of "race" fueled clash between Chinese and tibetans,
that is hardly comparable to campaigns of genocide , as the Vatican, Pol Pot's regime ,nazi Germany
colonial Dutch , Belgian, Brits,, French ,Portugese, Spanish, , etc etc held. [like these examples better Tsoldrin?:P]

The enemy, it is irrational to think that someone with a personal belief or religious outlook
is any more prompt to commit murder rape or whatever attrocity, than someone who is Atheist.
Whether you believe in a Deity or the existance of soul does not matter when you are enlisted,
drilled or forced to join armies of people ordered to commit mass murder.
besides that, any system of belief , be it cold rational atheism, or blind faith religious,
is a form of mind control, whether you realise it or not , whether you control it or not.

peace'
standvast.
If Thine I that I spy with my own little I Doeth Offend thee ; Pluck It out.

Reply
10-17-2006, 01:48 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-17-2006, 01:50 PM by deathstickboy.)
#38
How Do We Know That Christians Are Delusional?
Quote:Everyone likes to trot out Mao and Stalin as symbols of athiestic killers. The reality of it is that these guys rightfully realized the danger to their own rule posed by religion... just like anything else which gathers and concentrates people under a common cause or belief and leaves them vulnerable to the control and manipulation of the most charasmatic 'leader' that comes along. This has nothing to do with an atheistic worldview and everything to do with cutting out those who might pose a threat to power.
They were running ideological cults of personality, while secular, it did not stop them from mass murder, infact it may have encouraged it. The fact that religious establishments were a threat to their power only gave them more justification for it. Of course it has nothing to do with an "atheistic world view" but it did indeed have to do with a view of the ideal world being one completely devoid of spirituality in favor of base materialism and the reduction of the human being to the level of cattle. It was never my intend to claim that aetheism is a mass murdering belief (which some have claimed of all "theism") but to simply outline that any ideological dogma has a tendancy to lead to mass murder, regardless of weather or not spiritual beliefs are included.
Wyrd bi∂ ful aræd : Vituð ér enn eða hvat?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[Image: madwolfoy0.jpg][Image: sharksmall1kd6.jpg][Image: bearkodiakchugachfe7.jpg]
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10-17-2006, 02:31 PM,
#39
How Do We Know That Christians Are Delusional?
The christians have murdered more human being than all the imperialistic, communistic and libertarian governments combined.
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10-18-2006, 01:45 AM,
#40
How Do We Know That Christians Are Delusional?
Quote:The christians have murdered more human being than all the imperialistic, communistic and libertarian governments combined.

Prove it.
Wyrd bi∂ ful aræd : Vituð ér enn eða hvat?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[Image: madwolfoy0.jpg][Image: sharksmall1kd6.jpg][Image: bearkodiakchugachfe7.jpg]
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10-18-2006, 04:27 AM,
#41
How Do We Know That Christians Are Delusional?
Quote:At least he didn't insult hades! everyone knows that we ought to go back to worshipping the Olympian gods. Zeus is angry!


If you don't believe in God, why the hell did you bring Him up?

*mutters under his breath to nobody in particular, "fucking moron"*
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10-18-2006, 08:42 AM,
#42
How Do We Know That Christians Are Delusional?
From the TJ, chapter 35.

Quote:41. "It will be two times a thousand years before the time comes when my teachings will be preached anew, without being falsified. This will occur when false doctrines and erroneous cults, when lies and fraud, and when deception by the conjurers of the dead and of spirits, by the soothsayers and clairvoyants, as well as by all the charlatans of the truth, will be at their peak.
42. "Until then, false cults, as well as liars, deceivers, charlatans, conjurers of the dead and of spirits, false soothsayers, clairvoyants, and false mediums pretending to speak for supernatural, other-dimensional and extra terrestrial beings from the depths of the universe, will be so numerous that they can no longer be counted.
43. "And such cults will be built upon human blood, hatred, greed and power, on lies and deceptions, and on cheating, misunderstanding, self-deception, confusion of consciousness and delusion.
Knowledge moves mountains. Belief makes slaves.

Knowing others is intelligence; knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength; mastering yourself is true power. -- Tao Te Ching
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10-18-2006, 10:21 AM,
#43
How Do We Know That Christians Are Delusional?
Quote:At least he didn't insult hades! everyone knows that we ought to go back to worshipping the Olympian gods. Zeus is angry!

Paper tigers, circular reasoning, and a condescending, crass, Bill O'Reilly-esque brow-beating tone.

If I had a nickel for every time he said delusion, I'd be a rich man.
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