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The Ten Commandments
11-20-2006, 01:33 PM, (This post was last modified: 11-20-2006, 01:36 PM by standvast.)
#16
The Ten Commandments
Quote:We're talking about the laws themselves not who applied it,

I find it very difficult to seperate the 2 , meaning i have a distinct feeling the laws
where made / borrowed and presented as original,
by those who applied them, that seems rather logical to me.
If moses got the laws from older sources, namely precepts which where
existant in Egypt at the time, that would either make them come from another God
than the one Moses thought/ pretended had inspired him. If he didn't get
them from some older source of inspiration, he imho thought them up and wrote them down
himself, which requires no influence form [the one true] God[s] , since most
of the rules where allready present in the precepts of Maat, for instance,
and [could] have been deducted to be a logical set of rules for humanity,
or a group of humans , by humans alone.
For those under the spell that all religions older than the worship of the God of Moses where
creations of Satan, or at least diametrically opposed to Monotheistic notions of later times,
i ask you to ponder whether YOU yourself , by logic, would / would not, be able
to come up with the same basic rules / commandments by simply being human and
observing what is nescessary for, or what encourages: collective betterment.
for those that think they need "God " for this..:
I feel very sorry that you choose to limit yourself in such drastic manner.

Quote:We can't just ignore who had the responsability of those actions

So did God instruct Moses to judge the people, because he was the sole rightious murderer
who was to save God's chosen flock, or can you envision that perhaps Moses appointed
himself to that position, merely pretending that God ordered him to do so, so his direct followers
who needed a new leader, a new sense of identity and a new home, would be driven by the
notion of God backing their every action be it murder or otherwise?..

Quote:It's a fact men and women are not the same not in psychological way, nor in physical way or attitudes toward several things. If people think this is an attack against free rights for everyone, that's a mistake

I don't think it's an attack on free or equal rights for men and women,
at least, i don't think it is in your mind/interpretation, and i agree men / women are different in a sense.
I do think the design of the Patriarchy [god as a HE] was done willingly,
and that the minute roles of little importance played by women have also been done intentionally,
if only just to assure everyone "knew his place" is the society
allready dominated by a select group of self-exhaulted men.
Since allmost every aspect of Goddess or animal deity [which inherently comes
with elevated respect for women and animals imho] was taken out of monotheistic religions
but existed prior to them , and in suppressed variants along side them,
It seems logical to me that this was done with a certain reasoning behind it.
That reasoning would be that "God" represented characteristics that men saw as the most noble
most rightious, most fitting representation. So they mirrored their God on what they percieved as
the best of their own human characteristics , traits and models .

imho. In order to discuss the 10 Commandments , we also need to discuss how
they came about, how they where apllied, by whom,and in reaction to what.:smirk:

peace'
standvast.
If Thine I that I spy with my own little I Doeth Offend thee ; Pluck It out.

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11-20-2006, 02:52 PM,
#17
The Ten Commandments
No! You don't need to feel "sorry" about me "limiting" because you don't know my whole concept and we're not gonna know all what we think in a simple chat via internet via writing. Even if we talk faster we wouldn't know each other thought. Hence, in spite of your "peace" statement after your messages I see a cocky attitude elevating yourself upon my knowledge even though you can't see my whole concept. There's no peace in such a message.
I'm not saying we don't have to discuss who made the rules or who applied them, I say we have to analyze the laws by themselves as well. Moses didn't make the law to say he was the only right murderer! That's perverting the thing. The law applied to himself because he didn't invent it. I'm making the case about 8th day circumsition or dodging eating certain animals like pork. Those things were not seen by microscopes in those days so they can't be "deducted to be a logical set of rules" or by "observation" unless they were guided. <span style="color:#FFFF00">Western medicine took centuries for the doctors to learn to wash their hands even when they observed people were dying like flies and got rotten by infection. It was not due to observation or logical procedures they learned 8th day was the proper day when we know that has been discovered just in XX century! It's just an example among those 613 Mosaic laws. And I'm not saying either that this revelation HAD TO BE UNIQUE because similar rules were given to other people like Incas and Egyptians. They could've said "we give you these orders" just like modern law behaves but they admitted they received many things by revelation. If cynical people in our times believe they were lying that's other thing. How did they received those revelations or inspirations is also another thing.

The very Sinai mountain is not in Egypt (I climbed the false Horeb with other tourists) but is in Arabia (as Galatians 4:25 admits) and whether people know it or not, the mountain is <span style="color:#993399">blacked as if charred there, in Arabian mountain <span style="color:#FF0000">Jebel El Lawaz, which is 5.6 million dollars military instalation. protected by fences.
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11-20-2006, 03:09 PM,
#18
The Ten Commandments
Usually people talk about similarities between Hebrew codes and Egyptian but they don't mention the differences. They talk about pseudo-monotheism in times of Akenaton which was not the case at all. Even in that time the <span style="color:#FFFF33">Sun Aton was part of a triad, sunrise-midday-sundown and they were worshipiing the Sun (something forbidden by Moses' laws) with its hands touching Akenaton and his family also considered like divine family. In spite of learning Egyptian wisdom the likeness is in many ways just usually don't discussed as much as it should be. The Almighty concept in Hebrew system paid attention to <span style="color:#33CCFF">Shekinah which was femenine thing and God begets like a woman in many senses althougth without a womb. Moses was not living like a <span style="color:#33CC00">pharaoh at all but faced problems and even required the assistance of Jethro who was from Cainite lineage! Judges 1:16. The appocrypha or the scrolls cast away from the Bible, like the <span style="color:#FF6600">Book of Jasher (2 Samuel 1:18) mentioned that chauvinism attitude you are commenting. So, I'm not denying your words in that sense.
Also the concept of Satan existed all over the places and not just in the Bible and we ough to make a mysticism comparison with details. When the concept is universal and not local is not "merely" an invention I regret to say. If the worshippers of the Mother Side overlook other important things because they have focused too much time (in books which usually repeat the same things over and over and over focusing in their misconceptions about Hebrew God mainly imported from Christians' errors), it's not my affair.
A bit more about Sinai:
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11-20-2006, 03:12 PM,
#19
The Ten Commandments
Quote:For those under the spell that all religions older than the worship of the God of Moses where
creations of Satan, or at least diametrically opposed to Monotheistic notions of later times,
i ask you to ponder whether YOU yourself , by logic, would / would not, be able
to come up with the same basic rules / commandments by simply being human and
observing what is nescessary for, or what encourages: collective betterment.
for those that think they need "God " for this..:
I feel very sorry that you choose to limit yourself in such drastic manner.

Quote:No! You don't need to feel "sorry" about me "limiting" because you don't know my whole concept

I never even mentioned you, you read "yourself" into the description i gave,
or found what i said to be fitting to YOU as a person, i never implied speaking about YOU.:rolleyes:

Quote:Hence, in spite of your "peace" statement after your messages I see a cocky attitude elevating yourself upon my knowledge even though you can't see my whole concept. There's no peace in such a message.

Oh ok, so because i try to use my intepretations of your posts in a sense
that i would like to learn from them, or at least find them interesting enough to
criticise and further explore, .. well realising i can't comprehend your entire view
on the topic discussed , makes my message one that is not peacefull, or negates the
the intended bless of me wishing peace [my idea of it] to about each and everyone anytime i post something?

check yourself mate, i ain't the one with "a cocky attitude",
you only percieve it as such..
i'm open to having my views criticised and do not elevate them above those of another,

[maybe i should have used [IMHO] 15 more times, to let you know i'm merely offering my views,.
i surely do not want to come accross like i have all answers or that my answers are "better" than any others.]

peace'
standvast.
If Thine I that I spy with my own little I Doeth Offend thee ; Pluck It out.

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11-20-2006, 03:12 PM,
#20
The Ten Commandments
http://users.netconnect.com.au/~leedas/mtsinai.html

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/bb971126.htm
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11-20-2006, 03:21 PM,
#21
The Ten Commandments
Indeed I check myself and therefore I try not to include "peace" messages. Your quote about ME as a person, soul, spirit whatever you wanna call it, is beyond a simple "interpretation" which I never reject. You wrote "I feel very sorry that you choose to limit yourself in such drastic manner." My statement: You don't need to be sorry about my so-called limitation according to your respected point of view. I could've said you're the one limited in several areas but I :quiet: haven't. And if I said probably you would correctly feel touchy. Those statements beyond interpretation are subjective and very revealing for the readers to observe.





Now, shall we continue our discussion?
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11-20-2006, 04:32 PM,
#22
The Ten Commandments
Quote:Indeed I check myself and therefore I try not to include "peace" messages.

whatever suits you, ..

I use it partially as a neutral greeting, and the other half as a concious projection.
For me personally it is important to word certain sentiments,
or project certain ideals, .. [peace] to me means a lot more than absence of war.

Quote:Your quote about ME as a person, soul, spirit whatever you wanna call it, is beyond a simple "interpretation" which I never reject. You wrote "I feel very sorry that you choose to limit yourself in such drastic manner."

I did not, .. i reacted to your post, but i never addressed you personally in below text:
Quote:
For those
under the spell that all religions older than the worship of the God of Moses where
creations of Satan, or at least diametrically opposed to Monotheistic notions of later times,
i ask you to ponder whether YOU yourself , by logic, would / would not, be able
to come up with the same basic rules / commandments by simply being human and
observing what is nescessary for, or what encourages: collective betterment.
for those that think they need "God " for this..:
I feel very sorry that you choose to limit yourself in such drastic manner.

-YOU- in the above paragraph , relates to: FOR THOSE that fit the description.
Now if you feel you do fit the description ,that still does not mean i was addressing INCA personally.

Quote:Those statements beyond interpretation are subjective and very revealing for the readers to observe.

How is it beyond interpretation, ? as i said , should i have added some more [IMHO]
to make absolutely sure you would understand it is merely my view of what i percieve
to be a self imposed limitation ?

Quote:Now, shall we continue our discussion?

Yes lets.

peace'
standvast.
If Thine I that I spy with my own little I Doeth Offend thee ; Pluck It out.

Reply
11-21-2006, 10:57 PM,
#23
The Ten Commandments
You know, taking into consideration with whom you were talking about, it's difficult to accept your explanation. Not that I fit the description. Besides, the rules of English when you say "I feel very sorry that you choose to limit yourself in such drastic manner" are very clear. If you were talking in plural and not towards me you should've said "yourselves" instead of yourself. But this insistence in trying to undo your statement makes me think in more than lies: a bit of hypocresy in spite of your eloquent statement: "...concious projection. For me personally it is important to word certain sentiments,
or project certain ideals, .. [peace] to me means a lot more than absence of war."


I wanted to continue the discussion about the thread of course, but it seems you ran out of ideas. So be it. If I have something else to discuss rather than this nonsense, I will be back. Type whatever else about peace, brotherhood.
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11-22-2006, 08:06 AM,
#24
The Ten Commandments
Quote:If you were talking in plural and not towards me you should've said "yourselves" instead of yourself.

Quote:But this insistence in trying to undo your statement makes me think in more than lies: a bit of hypocresy in spite of your eloquent statement: "...concious projection. For me personally it is important to word certain sentiments,
or project certain ideals, .. [peace] to me means a lot more than absence of war."

What i ment was : any one single person [you] fitting the description,
as i said [for those] twice, i thought that was clear, but here i am still trying to
have you comprehend my intent , and telling you i am not "undoing the statement",
merely clarifying how i didn't assume INCA to fit the given description starting with "for those".
Quote:I wanted to continue the discussion about the thread of course, but it seems you ran out of ideas. So be it. If I have something else to discuss rather than this nonsense, I will be back. Type whatever else about peace, brotherhood.

I didnt run out of ideas, i wanted to clear up this misunderstanding.
I care little for what you think of my use of [peace].
You could have / can just continue the discussion about the thread of course, but didn't

think whatever you like of me and my percieved attitude,

I'm done with this "discussion".

Peace'
standvast.
If Thine I that I spy with my own little I Doeth Offend thee ; Pluck It out.

Reply
11-22-2006, 11:15 AM,
#25
The Ten Commandments
Additional lies: "I care little for what you think of my use of [peace]." Wow! After more than a page of explanatory answers! :confused: So, be it!
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11-22-2006, 02:00 PM, (This post was last modified: 11-22-2006, 02:09 PM by standvast.)
#26
The Ten Commandments
:smirk:

Quote:Additional lies: "I care little for what you think of my use of [peace]." Wow! After more than a page of explanatory answers!

additional Lies? , additional to what initial lie?

When i take time to explain myself ,
does that automatically mean i care more than a little about
what you personally [Inca] may possibly percieve my words mean, or percieve my intent to be?
I don't. and you are not the only one reading this thread i presume.

Funny that you would go so far as to claim you can judge my personal sentiments.

so far you've said you think i lie, attributed to me a cocky attitude, and remarked on me making hypocritical statements.
you don't ask for my further explanations, yet you draw conclusions,..
i merely offered explanations to better communication, both on what i meant by [you] in it's context,
and the very limited remarks about my habit of using [peace] as a amical salutation.

Why waste another post?
Could you not just hop back on topic?
Care alot about what i may possibly mean or think?
Got a problem with me personally? Take it to pm, please.

suppose the next "lie" you'll uncover is that i allready
said i was done with this discussion last post ,, :grin:

peace'
standvast.
If Thine I that I spy with my own little I Doeth Offend thee ; Pluck It out.

Reply
11-22-2006, 07:28 PM,
#27
The Ten Commandments
Thou shall not :mad: remake <span style="color:#FF0000">The Ten Commandments film, so let it be written, let it be done!
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11-28-2006, 12:26 AM,
#28
The Ten Commandments
Quote:
Quote:I am the sheep. If you want to quote Russian writers and look all cool, pick a good one. Don't make me call you out, sheep, bitch, fucking nutter (whichever is least/most offensive). You didn't really say anything. And where the hell did you get that my insults were for people on "my side"? I like you, bitch, you fucking nutter. Come and be a sheep with me. We love the tranquility of not thinking. Of quoting writers we don't understand. It's nice over here.

I don't have time for your shit. All I tried to do is politely smooth the situation over diplomatically and all I get is lip in return? Well, I'm in a pretty good mood today so I'm not going to ban your sorry ass, I'm going to do something a little less drastic and simply pre-moderate anything you post. IOW you can write all the posts you want, but they wont be published on the forum until I, Ognir or Woken approve them.

The pre-moderation of your account will be left in place for 7 days. Hopefully you'll learn in that time ad hominem attacks on people serve no purpose.

:smack::gangup: :kicknuts: :a_poke::doghump:

You had time enough for my shit to mention it. I didn't mean to step on your toes. Ban me if you feel the need. I didn't mean to lip anything of yours, and if I did, I apologize profusely. If you are the moderator you pretend to be, then go ahead, ban me. Kill Me. I wouldn't want to be but dead here anyway, if it's like that. Go and burn a few a books while you're at it, Adolph.
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11-28-2006, 01:44 AM, (This post was last modified: 11-28-2006, 02:09 AM by GutSmoke.)
#29
The Ten Commandments
nothing. delete. And Fuck you CTRL. All power corrupts. I didn't know I'd attacked anyone who couldn't verbally defend themselves. I certainly didn't mean to. And I sincerely apologize if I did. I thought this site could take it. And give it right back.
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11-28-2006, 05:38 PM,
#30
The Ten Commandments
Whoa, CTRL, dude, I thought you were bluffing. I guess you really are a moderator. Wholly cow. You have to understand that sometimes the alcoholism gets the better of me and I say things I regret. I'm sorry, truly. Still, if you want to ban me, I'd understand. I hope you don't, but if you do you do, and squat I can do about it. If so, well, it's been fun.
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