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Capitalism : A Cruel Ideology.
11-15-2006, 04:25 AM,
#1
Capitalism : A Cruel Ideology.
The term capitalism means the sovereignty of capital, a free and unrestricted economic system totally based on profit and where society is in competition within these criteria. There are three important elements in capitalism: individualism, competition, and profit-making. Individualism is important because people see themselves not as a part of society, but as "individuals" standing alone on their own two feet. "Capitalist society" is an arena where individuals compete with one another under very harsh and ruthless conditions just like that described by Darwin, where only the strong survive, where the weak and powerless are crushed and eliminated.

Another article on economy by Harun Yahya : The Impact of Disbelief on Economy
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11-15-2006, 05:16 AM,
#2
Capitalism : A Cruel Ideology.
Without capitalism people wouldn't know how to change a light bulb. Without the huge profit of endlessly selling light bulbs, there would be no reason to make them so poorly and the average light bulb would last about 200 years. Why doesn't someone 'compete' with a longer lasting bulb? Well all the methods for making them have been patented (but not used) by the big corps.

A similar tale can be told of things like razors or even cars, and many other products which should be lasting us nearly forever but if they did would cease to turn monsterous profits for the corporate elite.

Face it, the system is broken.
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11-15-2006, 08:55 AM,
#3
Capitalism : A Cruel Ideology.
tsoldrin you're aboslutely right.

Capitalism operates on a paprabolic curve of quality to profit.

everything starts off good, but the longer time goes on, the less the quality gets until it get's so low that it seems stagnate, but be assured it's still dropping slowly.

An interesting story:

I live with some older people, friends of my family. Any ways, the man was an electrical engineer. He was contracted to make the mechanism for a turn signal for Ford in the late 50's. The way it worked was there's a thin peice of metal attached to one point of a cricut and resting on the other. Whe current goes through, it heats up. When it heats up it lifts of the the contact, creating the on off action of the signal. WHen he submitted it, they returned it, saying it was too durable. They only wanted something like 100000 clicks on the thing. He had to manufacture the slim peice of metal even thinner in order to meet their demands.

Every company operates on these priniclples. Everything is meant to fuck up so you buy more.

Fuck capitalism.
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11-15-2006, 08:04 PM,
#4
Capitalism : A Cruel Ideology.
Capitalism is necessary for freedom. Free trade, with no government interference. With capitalism, everyone benefits. People are encouraged to work hard, as there is a vested interest in it. The standard of living then increases, because through innovation, we make life easier. Without capitalism, we wouldn't have electricity, okay?
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11-15-2006, 10:18 PM,
#5
Capitalism : A Cruel Ideology.
Quote:Capitalism is necessary for freedom. Free trade, with no government interference. With capitalism, everyone benefits. People are encouraged to work hard, as there is a vested interest in it. The standard of living then increases, because through innovation, we make life easier. Without capitalism, we wouldn't have electricity, okay?

That sounds like it came right out of a cold war era government anti-communist propaganda pamphlet. Well the commies are beat so there's no reason to tow that line anymore okay?

Without Tesla who wanted everyone to have free electricity there would be no electricity okay? There's you're capitalist; Free energy for all.

There is no incentive anymore to work hard. The incentive is for people to find loopholes, beat the system and cheat, because that's who wins. Ask any number of thousands of people who've been running small, honest businesses for generations who have been stomped to dust by walmart.

Innovation is gone. Every day giant corporations file new patents just to sit on them and prevent competition. I have a friend who works for a huge company and he and his entire group do nothing but brainstorm things to patent. Other groups who do actual work are also required to submit a certain number of patent ideas periodically. The whole process now is so convoluted and expensive that the individual inventor has little to no chance of ever obtaining their own patent and defending it unless they sell out to (of course) a giant corporation.

Don't misunderstand me... I don't have a solution. I don't know a better way. We've been searching for the best way to govern ourselves since the first village was formed. I do think our current system is broken though, very very broken and the honest, hard working person has more and more stacked against them every day. If you extrapolate out what has been happening into the future to see what the most likely outcome is, it's pretty clear that there will eventually be only two classes of people, the Owners and the Servants. How is this progress? We'll simply be circling back to feudalism.

I'd suggest something like an entire branch of the government just to regulate corporations, but really, who wants more government? And government seems to exceedingly susceptible to corruption. We'd also need a branch to do nothing but govern government... where does it end? Who checks the checkers? Perhaps Benevolent Dictator is the best thing we can hope for. ;)
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@psilocybin That's funny, and kind of sad, about the switches. Very typical though. I remember doing computer repair for a while and fixing the power buttons all the time... maybe second or third most after power supplies. I kept telling people just leave it on.
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11-15-2006, 10:33 PM,
#6
Capitalism : A Cruel Ideology.
...we don't NEED more government. Hell, we might not need government at all. Research anarcho-capitalism.

And, capitalism is really the only moral economic system. Taking from someone who earned money, to give to someone who is lazy is, well, TERRIBLE. Also, capitalism is democratic. When at the store, selecting products, you'll see different brands producing the same thing. This is competition. Usually the products have slight differences. With your dollars, you vote on which product will be more successful.
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11-15-2006, 10:57 PM,
#7
Capitalism : A Cruel Ideology.
Please join the modern world.

The VAST majority of people select products not for their 'slight differences' but as a direct result of advertising. Advertising science is so finely tuned at this point that it borders on mind control for many. They are unable to resist it. Many companies spend more on advertising than on producing or distributing their products. Doesn't that tell you something?
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11-16-2006, 02:08 AM,
#8
Capitalism : A Cruel Ideology.
Yes, but Capitalism is not Corporatism. Most large corporations got to their borderline-government status through manipulation of the government. In an anarcho-capitalist system, however, no corporation could EVER get that big, as there would always be competitors, constantly undercutting prices to appease the masses, raising wages to appease the workers, and everyone is better off.
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11-16-2006, 02:19 AM,
#9
Capitalism : A Cruel Ideology.
http://www.anarchism.net/anarchism_bartert...tcapitalism.htm Read this. A good defense of traditional (non-corporatist, aka Austrian) capitalism.
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11-16-2006, 07:49 AM,
#10
Capitalism : A Cruel Ideology.
Quote:Yes, but Capitalism is not Corporatism. Most large corporations got to their borderline-government status through manipulation of the government. In an anarcho-capitalist system, however, no corporation could EVER get that big, as there would always be competitors, constantly undercutting prices to appease the masses, raising wages to appease the workers, and everyone is better off.

What's to stop two (or more) of these hypothetical corporations from joining together to not only fix prices but also keep any other minor upstart corporations from growing large enough to compete with the gigantic multi-corp? Which is precisely what we see happening in real life.

I am aware of anarco-capitalism and find it to be a 'neat idea' in theory, but completely unworkable in practice. It requires that everyone embrace and hold themselves to a utopian ideal as far as personal behavior. If everyone was already acting under this ideal, it would not mater what form of economy or government there was, it would all be utopia anyway and everything would work out right for everyone. As we can clearly see around us, almost nobody plays by the rules, hence all forms of economy and government are going to be flawed and must be watched closely. The more checks and balances the better.

I think if you extrapolated out anarcho-capitalism to it's furthest conclusion you'd find that it becomes feudalism... hey, that's what's happening to us right now, isnt it? ;)

It would be interesting to play a large multi-player game designed around anarcho-capitalsm to see how it plays out and where problems are most likely to crop up. Perhaps then it can be taken back to the drawing board and refined.

Symbolism.
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11-16-2006, 08:34 AM,
#11
Capitalism : A Cruel Ideology.
We have feudalism nowadays because of government intervention in the economy. Are you aware of the massive amounts of federal subsidies and corporate welfare? Wal-Mart, for example, which everyone here probably agrees is bad, gets MASSIVE amounts of subsidies. And, the to answer your first question, the two companies banding together, without government interferences, would not succeed. Why? Because it would eventually collapse, in a Julius Caesar-like scenario. They would always seek more, which ends them. Then along comes a smaller competitor, who mops up what the recently fallen company lost. It behaves in cycles till everyone learns that competition benefits them, as well.
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11-16-2006, 10:18 AM,
#12
Capitalism : A Cruel Ideology.
Quote:the two companies banding together, without government interferences, would not succeed. Why? Because it would eventually collapse, in a Julius Caesar-like scenario. They would always seek more, which ends them.

Just saying something like that doesn't make it so.

Let's say we have two companies selling widgets and through competition the price stabilizes at about $5 each. They're both barely making any profits. Company A and Company B merge to form Company AB... they were the two main producers of widgets so now they have the lions share of the market covered.

Company AB raises the price to $10 and supplies all the land with widgets gallore, reaping huge profits.

Company C comes along thinking 'hey, we can sell widgets cheaper than that, we'll compete!'


Now Company AB has several options. They can pressure the companies in the supply, distribution and retail markets to not do business with Company C... Since they're a mega company they probably are one of the best customers in all these fields and have a lot of pull. Also they may be providing many more widgets than Company C is capable of producing, being a double sized company and all and could simply threaten to cut off the widget supply. If Company AB is selling you 1000 widgets a week at $10 and you're reselling them all, and Company C can only make 200 widgets a week, even if C sold you widgets at cost you'd still be losing money.

If all that didn't work, Company AB can always take the drastic measure of simply selling widgets at a price below what Company C can make them for, possibly even at a loss, because being a monster Company gives you that kind of comfort zone. After a while Company C will collapse and the prices go back up again, maybe to $15 per widget to make up for lost profit. Word gets around that it's a waste of time and resources to try to compete with Company AB.

Perhaps some gaggle of tiny companies plot to join together and go at AB as a triad. All that needs be done is buy one of them off and now AB+1 is even bigger and more powerful and further out of reach of any collective attack.


Well anyway, that's my take on it. It's not like I don't like the idea, I just think it's flawed. Like I said before, it would be interesting to game it all out virtually and see how it pans out. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't think so.
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11-16-2006, 10:37 AM, (This post was last modified: 11-16-2006, 10:38 AM by psilocybin.)
#13
Capitalism : A Cruel Ideology.
The simple fact is capitalism is steeped in the worst of human traits: Greed and Self importance.

It's either I want more, or I'm worth more.

The key word here is more.

Nobody can be satisfied.
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11-16-2006, 02:56 PM,
#14
Capitalism : A Cruel Ideology.
I completely agree with tsoldrin.

Whilst the "freedom lover" associates capitalism with freedom, he/she only ascribes it from the point of view as a consumer. Capitalism wasn't created for consumers nor freedom. It is usury and greed that has destroyed the basic concept of capitalism into what is is today.

Why is this thread in the religion forum, wtf?
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11-16-2006, 08:40 PM,
#15
Capitalism : A Cruel Ideology.
No, capitalism WAS created for the consumer, and I can show you why. Capitalism is named as such because it CAPITALISES on the most powerful human emotion, and the driving force of all humans; greed/self-interest. A company, in a capitalist system, makes the most money by producing and innovating, thereby helping the consumers with their daily lives. Socialism, however, requires a sort of hippie dream world.
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