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Santa - Christian Or Secular ?
12-04-2006, 04:05 AM,
#1
Santa - Christian Or Secular ?
Santa Claus Deemed Too 'Religious' for School Fundraiser
By Randy Hall
CNSNews.com Staff Writer/Editor
November 30, 2006

(CNSNews.com) - A Christmas-themed event to raise money at a public elementary school in Warwick, N.Y., has been altered to accommodate a parent's complaints that the program would illegally spotlight a <span style="color:#CC0000">"religious" figure - Santa Claus.

"Breakfast With Santa" has since been changed to "Winter Wonderland Breakfast," and -- in an effort to be inclusive of all beliefs -- the bearded one will now be joined at the Dec. 9 event by Frosty the Snowman.

Organizers made the changes after one parent charged that she and others in the community were offended that the Parent Teacher Association at the Sanfordville Elementary School was sponsoring a program geared toward one religion.

That parent, who did not wish to have her name used, wrote a letter to the school board asserting that Santa represents Christmas -- a Christian holiday -- and by law, a public school is not allowed to promote religion.

According to the Warwick Advertiser, the PTA offered to include Hanukkah traditions in the event, but the parent said she felt this still wasn't fair because it included religious activities.

"I look forward to sponsoring an event that is within the law and inclusive of all," the parent wrote in a letter to the school superintendent, Dr. Frank Greenhall. "This is not an argument about religion; it is about the law of our land. Discrimination is simply detestable."

Greenhall then contacted an attorney, who advised him in a letter that the district "should, at a minimum, modify the events to avoid potential litigation."

The complainant suggested Frosty the Snowman as an alternative icon, and the school eventually agreed to have both Frosty and Santa.

Mike Johnson, senior legal counsel for the conservative Alliance Defense Fund, told Cybercast News Service the situation was "just absurd."

"My general reaction is probably the same as 95 percent of Americans when they hear about something like this," Johnson said. "It's ridiculous that we have to think twice about whether it's OK to celebrate Christmas in public."

While acknowledging that Saint Nicholas, a Dutch bishop who had a reputation for giving gifts in secret, "clearly was the original figure that Santa is based upon," he noted that <span style="color:#CC0000">"most people would recognize Santa Claus himself as a secular-type figure."

"The underlying principle here is that the First Amendment does not guarantee any of us a right not to be offended," Johnson said. "These radical leftist types are arguing that just because 95 percent of Americans, according to recent polling, celebrate Christmas, they ought not to have that right" since a person with a different view might object.

"There's probably a small percentage of evangelical Christians in this country who don't celebrate Halloween, but would any of these leftists argue that Christians have a right to ruin the party for everyone who wants to celebrate it?" Johnson asked. "Do they have the right to tell you that you can't wish them a happy Halloween? Of course not.

"This is ultimately about religious liberty," Johnson asserted. "Everyone's rights and beliefs should be respected, and no one should be discriminated against."

Darlene Baratto, who is chairing the PTA event, told the Advertiser that, since it falls on a Saturday and attendance is optional, no one is being discriminated against.

"We have a beautiful background people can have a picture in front of," Baratto said. "That wasn't good enough. We changed the name, colors, the background," but that did not satisfy the complaining parent. "She was not open to anything.<span style="color:#33CC00"> We'll have 300 or so kids who are disappointed."

Lisa Roca, another member of the breakfast committee, disputed the idea that Santa was anything but a secular character.

<span style="color:#33CC00">"Many churches try to take Santa out of Christmas because he is secular, not religious," she told the newspaper. "Their Christmas plays have nothing to do with Santa."

Catholic League President Bill Donohue called the events at the school an "exercise in tyranny."

"There is nothing in the U.S. Constitution, of course, that bans 'Breakfast with Santa' from taking place in a public school," Donohue said in a statement. "This has nothing to do with the law -- it has everything to do with bowing to the pressure of bigots."

A number of calls to the school and the PTA seeking comment for this article were not returned by press time.
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poor kids:cry:
when they try to be kids and have harmless fun, some idiot has to f* it up.
Is there no end to the screwing of children ?
I'll bet they could have a elementary school dance with sexual explicit and violent lyrics and no one would care.
&Alice laughed, &There's no use trying,& she said: &one can't believe impossible things.& &I daresay you haven't had much practice,& said the Queen. &When I was your age I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.&
- Lewis Carroll

&Things are seldom as they seem ... Skim milk masquerades as cream.&
- Gilbert and Sullivan (Pinafore)

At NASA, it really is rocket science, and the decision makers really are rocket scientists.
But a body of research that is getting more and more attention points to the ways that smart people working collectively can be dumber than the sum of their parts. .. Irwin Janis? &Groupthink:& is a mode of thinking that people engage in when they are deeply involved in a cohesive in-group, when the members' striving for unanimity override realistic appraisals ? It is the triumph of concurrence over good sense, and authority over expertise.&
-John Schwartz & Matthew L. Wade
Reply
12-06-2006, 03:16 PM,
#2
Santa - Christian Or Secular ?
Spanish school cancels Christmas

MADRID (Reuters) - A school in traditionally Catholic Spain has cancelled Christmas celebrations so as not to offend children who are not Christians, ABC newspaper reported on Wednesday.

The Hilarion Gimeno school in Zaragoza said teachers had put forward various reasons for not celebrating Christmas, but ABC said the worry was that Muslim children might be upset.
&Alice laughed, &There's no use trying,& she said: &one can't believe impossible things.& &I daresay you haven't had much practice,& said the Queen. &When I was your age I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.&
- Lewis Carroll

&Things are seldom as they seem ... Skim milk masquerades as cream.&
- Gilbert and Sullivan (Pinafore)

At NASA, it really is rocket science, and the decision makers really are rocket scientists.
But a body of research that is getting more and more attention points to the ways that smart people working collectively can be dumber than the sum of their parts. .. Irwin Janis? &Groupthink:& is a mode of thinking that people engage in when they are deeply involved in a cohesive in-group, when the members' striving for unanimity override realistic appraisals ? It is the triumph of concurrence over good sense, and authority over expertise.&
-John Schwartz & Matthew L. Wade
Reply
12-07-2006, 03:08 PM,
#3
Santa - Christian Or Secular ?
The Islamic Empire Strikes Back
December 05, 2006
by Bob Parks

Political Correctness will be our undoing.

Secret Santa
According to Sher Zieve, “Due to concerns regarding Austria’s growing Muslim population, the country’s officials are said to have banned references to St. Nick—also known as Santa Claus—in its kindergarten schools. The Muslim immigration into Austria is said to be at 400,000 and growing.”

“As Muslims continue to increase their populations in Western countries more western traditions are being removed—said to be attributed to fears of offending Muslim groups. However, Austrian officials said that the reason for the banning of St. Nick is that the bearded figure “evokes fear” in children.”

What kind of pansy-ass kids are we talking about here? I don’t know about you, but I’ve never met one kid who was afraid of Santa Claus. What’s up with Austria?

While “Christmas” is being systematically removed from our national lexicon, most reminders of our national holiday are being cleansed so we don’t offend one group: Muslims. So much for peaceful assimilation.

It’s always struck me funny how some groups migrate to a country in search of better opportunity, while later attempting to make their new home resemble that which they fled. Christmas is an international celebration and is harmless.

No word during the Christmas season about jihad or fatwas or shahada. No one who doesn’t conform to the Christmas holiday is deemed an infidel marked for elimination. What’s so offensive about Christmas? Granted, political correctness frowns on anything that uses the image of an old white man, but cut Santa some slack. Santa has never burned anyone alive, bombed a crowded shopping mall, hijacked airliners, enslaved women, and Santa isn’t Jewish. What’s the problem?

Santa gives toys to children. The horror….
http://mensnewsdaily.com/2006/12/05/the-is...e-strikes-back/
&Alice laughed, &There's no use trying,& she said: &one can't believe impossible things.& &I daresay you haven't had much practice,& said the Queen. &When I was your age I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.&
- Lewis Carroll

&Things are seldom as they seem ... Skim milk masquerades as cream.&
- Gilbert and Sullivan (Pinafore)

At NASA, it really is rocket science, and the decision makers really are rocket scientists.
But a body of research that is getting more and more attention points to the ways that smart people working collectively can be dumber than the sum of their parts. .. Irwin Janis? &Groupthink:& is a mode of thinking that people engage in when they are deeply involved in a cohesive in-group, when the members' striving for unanimity override realistic appraisals ? It is the triumph of concurrence over good sense, and authority over expertise.&
-John Schwartz & Matthew L. Wade
Reply
12-07-2006, 03:11 PM,
#4
Santa - Christian Or Secular ?
in this one he is even a republican:crazy:

Anything But Straight: A Religious Test
By Wayne Besen
While I love the joyous “Christmas spirit,” my main point was that the insidious purpose behind this campaign was to force non-Christians into paying homage to the right wing’s pale-skinned, suburban, Republican Jesus. After all, if you are Jewish, and a well-meaning, broad grinned store clerk bellows, “Merry Christmas,” how else can you reply but, “Merry Christmas”?
http://www.fcnp.com/index.php?option=com_c...6&Itemid=35
&Alice laughed, &There's no use trying,& she said: &one can't believe impossible things.& &I daresay you haven't had much practice,& said the Queen. &When I was your age I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.&
- Lewis Carroll

&Things are seldom as they seem ... Skim milk masquerades as cream.&
- Gilbert and Sullivan (Pinafore)

At NASA, it really is rocket science, and the decision makers really are rocket scientists.
But a body of research that is getting more and more attention points to the ways that smart people working collectively can be dumber than the sum of their parts. .. Irwin Janis? &Groupthink:& is a mode of thinking that people engage in when they are deeply involved in a cohesive in-group, when the members' striving for unanimity override realistic appraisals ? It is the triumph of concurrence over good sense, and authority over expertise.&
-John Schwartz & Matthew L. Wade
Reply
12-07-2006, 03:18 PM,
#5
Santa - Christian Or Secular ?
Santa Claus or Clown
By MEGAN GILLIS, OTTAWA SUN


An attempt to offend no one has managed to offend just about everyone.

Religious folks railed and a public policy expert snickered yesterday at a Statistics Canada bureaucrat's holiday hints to nix Santa and red and green, think twice about boozy parties and use "appropriate holiday salutations."

"Negotiating what seems like a minefield of gaffes and awkward situations can feel like quite a challenge, but it doesn't have to be that way," wrote an employment equity office worker in a newsletter e-mailed to thousands.

In what reads like a parody, <span style="color:#33CC00">he suggests replacing the jolly old elf with a magician or clown at kids' parties, being conscious that alcohol may offend and decking the halls with "sensitive" decorations.

'LAUGHABLE ALMOST'

He suggests silver and gold garlands and wreaths, sleighs, reindeer and, oddly, poinsettias, which are typically red.

"Happy Holidays! Seasons Greetings!" he signs off.

It didn't leave Rabbi Reuven Bulka feeling festive.

<span style="color:#33CC00"> "Oh God," he sighed. "It is laughable almost. We come to such a terrible thing where we can't say to someone who is celebrating Christmas 'Merry Christmas'? "Why would I be offended if someone says to me on occasion Merry Christmas, not knowing I am Jewish?"

A culture of outrage is being created in the name of sensitivity, Bulka argued. "People are getting too easily offended. It's a stupid way of living."

What's truly inclusive is to rejoice with others as they celebrate their faith tradition, whatever it is, Bulka said.

COMPLAINED TO PM

The earnest "holiday diversity challenge" generated so many offended e-mails it was pulled the next day. One employee even complained to the prime minister religious freedom was under attack.

"The intention was a very good intention to start with -- it turned out to be a bit of controversy," director of communications Francois Borde said. "It's not the intention of anyone to ban anyone's festivities. We hope everyone can enjoy this period when everyone needs a break -- whether they're Jews or Muslims or Christians."

John Counsell, director of outreach at Bethel Pentecostal Church, said he's never heard a devout Muslim or Jew complain about Christmas.

<span style="color:#33CC00"> "It's not people from those groups who are promoting it," he said. "It's an atheist faction that has a disproportionate influence on our government and the media. This kind of nonsense comes from people who are anti-Christian."

To Leslie Pal, who teaches public administration and policy at Carleton University, it's more about a "professionally sensitive" bureaucracy run amok.

"Sometimes those equity offices, with the best of intentions, act as if people in the workplace are either children or maniacally sensitive about everything," he said. "Most people are a lot more reasoned and mature than that."
http://ottsun.canoe.ca/News/National/2006/...pf-2669701.html
&Alice laughed, &There's no use trying,& she said: &one can't believe impossible things.& &I daresay you haven't had much practice,& said the Queen. &When I was your age I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.&
- Lewis Carroll

&Things are seldom as they seem ... Skim milk masquerades as cream.&
- Gilbert and Sullivan (Pinafore)

At NASA, it really is rocket science, and the decision makers really are rocket scientists.
But a body of research that is getting more and more attention points to the ways that smart people working collectively can be dumber than the sum of their parts. .. Irwin Janis? &Groupthink:& is a mode of thinking that people engage in when they are deeply involved in a cohesive in-group, when the members' striving for unanimity override realistic appraisals ? It is the triumph of concurrence over good sense, and authority over expertise.&
-John Schwartz & Matthew L. Wade
Reply
12-10-2006, 01:46 PM,
#6
Santa - Christian Or Secular ?
That's the beauty of living in a cosmopolitan world
Reply
12-02-2012, 02:29 PM,
#7
RE: Santa - Christian Or Secular ?
Why lie to your children? They will remember that you lied to them and thus doubt other things that you teach as parents. It is convenient that the state distances itself from this lie, doesn't want anything to do with it and puts it all on the parents eroding trust in parents and not so much in parents. The state helps parents lie with letters to Santa (in Canada you will even get letters back at a mailing address of HOH OHO) and the mall Santas and a lot of children just go along with it pretending to believe just to get an extra present.

This elaborate ruse is messed up, however you look at it. Here's a similar POV.

Quote:Why I don't Teach My Kids About Santa (A Christian Father's Perspective)




Uploaded by lagosz1 on 14 Dec 2010

Just sharing my heart and mind on a subject that may be bit controversial to some, but important to me. Please make sure to watch the entire video before jumping to any conclusions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeWwSOTaEGA

Awkward Moment on FOX News..




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRExtpzuWJY

This woman had to apologize publicly on air soon after this comment.
Media and the state will advocate the lie but they won't be the ones to commit to it either way putting it all on the parents.
There are no others, there is only us.
http://FastTadpole.com/
Reply
12-02-2012, 02:41 PM, (This post was last modified: 12-02-2012, 02:55 PM by CharliePrime.)
#8
RE: Santa - Christian Or Secular ?
Jesus vs. Santa

[Image: santa3.jpg]

I also dig the horror film sub-genre of Evil Santa.

One of the best Rare Exports: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1401143/

[Image: MV5BMTM4NzkxMDM4N15BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMTI1...4,317_.jpg]
Reply
12-02-2012, 08:12 PM,
#9
RE: Santa - Christian Or Secular ?
Where the origins of the Santa Claus stories actually are:

Quote:Amanita muscaria and Santa Claus
http://www.amanitashop.com/amanita-santa.htm

There are more than a few well-researched books, articles, and websites that have done a great job of uncovering some truths that have been buried for many years now. One of the most curious ones is the Amanita muscaria mushroom and its relation to Christmas. A couple of those books have become standards now; books such as James Arthur's "Mushrooms and Mankind" as well as "Magic Mushrooms in Religion and Alchemy" Clark Heinrich, but little has been said about the Amanita mushroom as it relates specifically to the Christmas tradition.

One of the latest books, which actually has an accompanying DVD is called "The Pharmacratic Inquisition". The amount of solid evidence is matched only by the amount of speculation that is contained within the pages of the book, but the research they've done regarding the original Christmas Mushroom is unparalleled. One of the most controversial arguments they make is that the story of Jesus and and all related Christian traditions emanated from just two original sources: astrology and shamanism.

Many of the information and arguments presented are thanks to John Allegro. Not many know who he is, but Allegro was one of the original and most respected translators of the Dead Sea Scrolls (ancient Christian texts found near the Dead Sea in the middle of the 20th century). The only problem, though, was that John wasn't a Christian, and therefore did not inject a Christian bias and agenda into his translations, which resulted in translations that were far too close to the truth for the comfort of the Catholic Church. The result was the radical claim that Jesus was actually a psychoactive mushroom and that this psychoactive mushroom may have been Amanita muscaria. The more research Allegro did on the the subject, the more convinced he was that the true meaning of Jesus, Christmas, and the Amanita mushroom were purposely hidden throughout history.

This also made him an easy target for critics and the Catholic Church, and the moment these claims started to surface, so did the machinery to discredit this brilliant researcher and scholar.

There are a number of indisputable facts such as how Amanita muscaria has a long history of use among northern European and Siberian shamans. In fact, knowledge of the powerful psychoactive properties have been well-documented, and there are still mushroom cults that exist in that very region today.

Back to the Amanita mushroom and Christmas... In the Pharmacratic Inquisition, Santa Claus is actually a shaman; something that might seem ridiculous until one examines the eveidence that abouds in relation to this idea. In northern European shamanism, the shaman was responsible for harvesting the Amanita muscaria mushroom. There's evidence that he would dry his amanitas, taken from the base of a conifer tree, in the tree itself! Since the harvest is in the fall and it can take some time to dry the amanitas, this could be the first evidence of a Christmas tree with ornaments of Amanita muscaria on it!

Once the Amanitas were properly dried, the shaman would reportedly gather up his harvest in a sack that looks surprisingly similar to the iconic Santa sack filled with presents for good boys and girls. He (or she) would then visit the yurts within his community in order to bring gifts of these sacred mushrooms to to his people, entering through the smoke hole at the top of the yurts.

Oh, and by the way; these northern Europeans also happened to be reindeer herders. Oddly enough, it wasn't just the shamans who were privy to the entheogenic value of these sacred mushrooms; their reindeer would actually seek them out in the snow, year after year. Once consumed, there was a noticable effect on the reindeer...some of them would stumble around or fall over, and a few would go into a deep sleep. But, none of the reindeer were ever harmed, and those same reindeer the next day or next year, would seek out those same mushroom patches again.

So, shamanic reindeer herders who were vastly familiar with the Amanita muscaria mushroom, engaging in a ceremony each year around Christmastime, with Amanitas hanging in the evergreen trees, with reindeer stumbling around, and a shaman in a red suit and a big burlap sack sharing them with his people by climbing down their smoke holes at the top of their yurts...hmmm.

As Martin W. Ball, Ph. D says: "Ultimately, the Pharmacratic Inquisition challenges many of the assumptions and beliefs we may have about Christianity and its central figures, providing provocative evidence that things are not as they seem within this tradition. If true, the question then becomes: does the Catholic Church still use amanita mushrooms secretly within the confines of the Vatican? Have they really been withholding this fundamental truth for two millennia, or have even they come to believe the myths that were created to both communicate and conceal the true identity of Jesus Christ? Watch this film and make up your own mind."

Quote:The Shamanic Origins of Christmas
http://www.dosenation.com/listing.php?id=5514

Dana Larsen
Well its that time of the year again. So I would like to share Dana Larsen's wonderful Christmas essay "Modern Christmas traditions are based on ancient mushroom-using shamans". Just to help spread a little clarity, history and truth about this special season, its rituals and meaning that has been hijacked by the Judeo-Christian religions who lost it to our cultures new religion, Consumerism.

Best wishes peace, happiness, good health and hopefully wealth this Winter Solstice and New Year!!

Modern Christmas traditions are based on ancient mushroom-using shamans.

By: Dana Larsen

Although most people see Christmas as a Christian holiday, most of the symbols and icons we associate with Christmas celebrations are actually derived from the shamanistic traditions of the tribal peoples of pre-Christian Northern Europe. The sacred mushroom of these people was the red and white amanita muscaria mushroom, also known as "fly agaric." These mushrooms are now commonly seen in books of fairy tales, and are usually associated with magic and fairies. This is because they contain potent hallucinogenic compounds, and were used by ancient peoples for insight and transcendental experiences. Most of the major elements of the modern Christmas celebration, such as Santa Claus, Christmas trees, magical reindeer and the giving of gifts, are originally based upon the traditions surrounding the harvest and consumption of these most sacred mushrooms.

The world tree These ancient peoples, including the Lapps of modern-day Finland, and the Koyak tribes of the central Russian steppes, believed in the idea of a World Tree. The World Tree was seen as a kind of cosmic axis, onto which the planes of the universe are fixed. The roots of the World Tree stretch down into the underworld, its trunk is the "middle earth" of everyday existence, and its branches reach upwards into the heavenly realm. The amanita muscaria mushrooms grow only under certain types of trees, mostly firs and evergreens. The mushroom caps are the fruit of the larger mycelium beneath the soil which exists in a symbiotic relationship with the roots of the tree. To ancient people, these mushrooms were literally "the fruit of the tree." The North Star was also considered sacred, since all other stars in the sky revolved around its fixed point. They associated this "Pole Star" with the World Tree and the central axis of the universe. The top of the World Tree touched the North Star, and the spirit of the shaman would climb the metaphorical tree, thereby passing into the realm of the gods. This is the true meaning of the star on top of the modern Christmas tree, and also the reason that the super-shaman Santa makes his home at the North Pole. Ancient peoples were amazed at how these magical mushrooms sprang from the earth without any visible seed. They considered this "virgin birth" to have been the result of the morning dew, which was seen as the semen of the deity. The silver tinsel we drape onto our modern Christmas tree represents this divine fluid.

Reindeer games The active ingredients of the amanita mushrooms are not metabolized by the body, and so they remain active in the urine. In fact, it is safer to drink the urine of one who has consumed the mushrooms than to eat the mushrooms directly, as many of the toxic compounds are processed and eliminated on the first pass through the body. It was common practice among ancient people to recycle the potent effects of the mushroom by drinking each other's urine. The amanita's ingredients can remain potent even after six passes through the human body. Some scholars argue that this is the origin of the phrase "to get pissed," as this urine-drinking activity preceded alcohol by thousands of years. Reindeer were the sacred animals of these semi-nomadic people, as the reindeer provided food, shelter, clothing and other necessities. Reindeer are also fond of eating the amanita mushrooms; they will seek them out, then prance about while under their influence. Often the urine of tripped-out reindeer would be consumed for its psychedelic effects. This effect goes the other way too, as reindeer also enjoy the urine of a human, especially one who has consumed the mushrooms. In fact, reindeer will seek out human urine to drink, and some tribesmen carry sealskin containers of their own collected piss, which they use to attract stray reindeer back into the herd. The effects of the amanita mushroom usually include sensations of size distortion and flying. The feeling of flying could account for the legends of flying reindeer, and legends of shamanic journeys included stories of winged reindeer, transporting their riders up to the highest branches of the World Tree.

Santa Claus, super shaman Although the modern image of Santa Claus was created at least in part by the advertising department of Coca-Cola, in truth his appearance, clothing, mannerisms and companions all mark him as the reincarnation of these ancient mushroom-gathering shamans. One of the side effects of eating amanita mushrooms is that the skin and facial features take on a flushed, ruddy glow. This is why Santa is always shown with glowing red cheeks and nose. Even Santa's jolly "Ho, ho, ho!" is the euphoric laugh of one who has indulged in the magic fungus. Santa also dresses like a mushroom gatherer. When it was time to go out and harvest the magical mushrooms, the ancient shamans would dress much like Santa, wearing red and white fur-trimmed coats and long black boots. These peoples lived in dwellings made of birch and reindeer hide, called "yurts." Somewhat similar to a teepee, the yurt's central smokehole is often also used as an entrance. After gathering the mushrooms from under the sacred trees where they appeared, the shamans would fill their sacks and return home. Climbing down the chimney-entrances, they would share out the mushroom's gifts with those within. The amanita mushroom needs to be dried before being consumed; the drying process reduces the mushroom's toxicity while increasing its potency. The shaman would guide the group in stringing the mushrooms and hanging them around the hearth-fire to dry. This tradition is echoed in the modern stringing of popcorn and other items. The psychedelic journeys taken under the influence of the amanita were also symbolized by a stick reaching up through the smokehole in the top of the yurt. The smokehole was the portal where the spirit of the shaman exited the physical plane. Santa's famous magical journey, where his sleigh takes him around the whole planet in a single night, is developed from the "heavenly chariot," used by the gods from whom Santa and other shamanic figures are descended. The chariot of Odin, Thor and even the Egyptian god Osiris is now known as the Big Dipper, which circles around the North Star in a 24-hour period. In different versions of the ancient story, the chariot was pulled by reindeer or horses. As the animals grow exhausted, their mingled spit and blood falls to the ground, forming the amanita mushrooms.

St Nicholas and Old Nick Saint Nicholas is a legendary figure who supposedly lived during the fourth Century. His cult spread quickly and Nicholas became the patron saint of many varied groups, including judges, pawnbrokers, criminals, merchants, sailors, bakers, travelers, the poor, and children. Most religious historians agree that St Nicholas did not actually exist as a real person, and was instead a Christianized version of earlier Pagan gods. Nicholas' legends were mainly created out of stories about the Teutonic god called Hold Nickar, known as Poseidon to the Greeks. This powerful sea god was known to gallop through the sky during the winter solstice, granting boons to his worshippers below. When the Catholic Church created the character of St Nicholas, they took his name from "Nickar" and gave him Poseidon's title of "the Sailor." There are thousands of churches named in St Nicholas' honor, most of which were converted from temples to Poseidon and Hold Nickar. (As the ancient pagan deities were demonized by the Christian church, Hold Nickar's name also became associated with Satan, known as "Old Nick!") Local traditions were incorporated into the new Christian holidays to make them more acceptable to the new converts. To these early Christians, Saint Nicholas became a sort of "super-shaman" who was overlaid upon their own shamanic cultural practices. Many images of Saint Nicholas from these early times show him wearing red and white, or standing in front of a red background with white spots, the design of the amanita mushroom. St Nicholas also adopted some of the qualities of the legendary "Grandmother Befana" from Italy, who filled children's stockings with gifts. Her shrine at Bari, Italy, became a shrine to St Nicholas.

Modern world, ancient traditions Some psychologists have discussed the "cognitive dissonance" which occurs when children are encouraged to believe in the literal existence of Santa Claus, only to have their parents' lie revealed when they are older. By so deceiving our children we rob them of a richer heritage, for the actual origin of these ancient rituals is rooted deep in our history and our collective unconscious. By better understanding the truths within these popular celebrations, we can better understand the modern world, and our place in it. Many people in the modern world have rejected Christmas as being too commercial, claiming that this ritual of giving is actually a celebration of materialism and greed. Yet the true spirit of this winter festival lies not in the exchange of plastic toys, but in celebrating a gift from the earth: the fruiting top of a magical mushroom, and the revelatory experiences it can provide. Instead of perpetuating outdated and confusing holiday myths, it might be more fulfilling to return to the original source of these seasonal celebrations. How about getting back to basics and enjoying some magical mushrooms with your loved ones this solstice? What better gift can a family share than a little piece of love and enlightenment?
“Today’s scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after
equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. ” -Nikola Tesla

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." -Jimi Hendrix
Reply
12-02-2012, 08:32 PM, (This post was last modified: 12-02-2012, 08:32 PM by R.R.)
#10
RE: Santa - Christian Or Secular ?
Surprised nobody mentioned Santa re-aaranged becomes Satan and that Old Nick (as in St. Nicholas) refers to the devil. Santa is certainly a slave driver:

Quote:The Forbes Fictional Fifteen - Santa Claus

Michael Noer, 12.05.05, 03:00 PM EST

Critics claim Santa's legendary workshop is fueled by long hours, low wages and hazardous conditions.

ROVANIEMI, FINLAND -- Stanley Twinkleflake is an exile. Three years ago, the diminutive snow elf and three of his closest companions were banished from the North Pole by an enraged Santa Claus, who accused them of trying to unionize his workshop.

“Now we can’t even go north of the Arctic circle,” sighs Twinkleflake, who has relocated to this northern Finnish town just shy of the 66th parallel. “You can’t even get decent cloudberries here.”

At issue is Claus’ treatment of his large elvish work force, which annually produces some 700 million toys with a market value in excess of $14 billion. Critics claim that the elves work long hours for low pay under hazardous conditions. Particularly at issue is Claus' adamant refusal to give the elves any sort of health insurance and his stubborn insistence on keeping his manufacturing operations at the North Pole, where governmental oversight is nonexistent.

“It was bad enough trying to make wooden rocking horses and sleds during the depths of an arctic winter,” says Twinkleflake, “but nowadays all the kids want is electronics. You try working with all those chemicals in perpetual darkness.”

During the winter (approximately Sept. 21 to March 21), the sun never rises at the North Pole, and temperatures as low as minus 59 degrees Fahrenheit have been recorded.

“That’s cold, even for a snow elf,” says Holly Stockingstuffer, an independent filmmaker who recently released a fiercely anti-Claus documentary entitled The Workshop: The High Cost of Free Toys. “The conditions up there are subhuman. I mean, leaving aside the bitter cold and the months of darkness for a moment, there is the wildlife problem. There are literally hundreds of ill-tempered polar bears roaming freely about the property. And those flying reindeer don’t smell too sweet either.”

Polar bears are the world’s largest land predator and can weigh more than 1,500 pounds.

Claus’ spokes-elf, Celeste “Bubbles” Nognipper, is dismissive of the complaints. “Elves are immortal. They don’t need health insurance. This is just the griping of a few bad snowflakes.” As for the supposedly subhuman conditions, Nognipper points out that elves “aren’t human.”

“See how far immortality will get you after you’ve been mauled, chewed up and regurgitated by a thousand-pound bear,” retorts Twinkleflake. “Immortality doesn’t mean we can’t suffer wounds or feel pain. We need proper doctors and cheap pain-killers.”

Claus himself denied repeated requests for an interview, but issued the following statement: “Ho! Ho! Ho!”

“I think that perfectly sums up our policy toward this--and every other--issue,” Nognipper says.

Wages are another concern. Claus pays the elves solely in candy canes, the local currency. While a good worker can make as many as 50 candy canes per day (plus room and board), the cane has little value outside of polar regions.

Stockingstuffer says the lack of legitimate alternative employment for the snow elves exacerbates the problem.

“In general, humans won’t hire magical creatures. There are exceptions--Wonka has his Oompa-Loompas, and Google has its wizards--but those are pretty much closed shops. If you are a snow elf, the workshop is the only game in town.”

Additionally, Stockingstuffer charges that Claus’ low expenses and infinite wealth allow him to produce toys well below cost, which he dumps on the world market once a year. Surprisingly, traditional toy makers such as Hasbro ( HAS - news - people ), Mattel ( MAT - news - people ) and Topps ( TOPP - news - people ), have mostly kept mum about the “Santa situation.”

In fact, Warner Flackmouth, president of the Worldwide Association of Toys and Trinkets, a Washington, D.C.-based lobbying group, insists that relations with Claus are cordial. “Look, this has been going on for hundreds of years. The industry has a long-standing relationship with Mr. Claus. As long as he confines his philanthropic activities to one day out of the year, we are happy to look the other way. But if he were to expand his operations--say start giving away toys on midsummer’s night eve or something--we would have a problem on our hands."

http://www.forbes.com/2005/12/05/santa-labor-elves_cx_mn_05fict15_1205clausprofile.html
Reply
12-10-2012, 02:52 PM, (This post was last modified: 12-10-2012, 02:54 PM by sitra11ahra.)
#11
RE: Santa - Christian Or Secular ?
(12-02-2012, 02:29 PM)FastTadpole Wrote: Why lie to your children? They will remember that you lied to them and thus doubt other things that you teach as parents. It is convenient that the state distances itself from this lie, doesn't want anything to do with it and puts it all on the parents eroding trust in parents and not so much in parents. The state helps parents lie with letters to Santa (in Canada you will even get letters back at a mailing address of HOH OHO) and the mall Santas and a lot of children just go along with it pretending to believe just to get an extra present.

I dont think theres any conclusive evidence that shows believing in santa as a child leads to a future mistrust of your parents or that most children lie about believing just to get extra stuff. Just going off of personal experience, but I remember (slightly) when I stopped believing in santa as it was roughly the same time as everyone else in the class and while I was a little disappointed I can definitely say that I didnt feel any further mistrust or animosity towards my parents. Going to the mall to see santa, having big family get togethers, putting out cookies and all the other festivities that go with it are just something fun for the kids. Also idk if you remember but when youre a child you believe in all sorts of nonsensical things whether your parents tell you about them in stories or if you just make them up yourself (monsters under your bed, unicorns, etc). Once you reach your teens I doubt theres too many people who hear their parents explain an event in world history or give them an anecdote about when they were their age and stop and think to themselves, "well, the motherfucker lied to me about christmas when I was 7... I wonder what else hes lying to me about." Also I doubt any parents are out there rubbing their hands together at their clever deception or patting themselves on the back for tricking their child into behaving for 25 days especially since bad kids generally just act bad anyways. So if a kid grows up thinking their parents are compulsive liars on the grounds that santa wasnt real then theyre probably retarded anyways.
whenever there is a truly intelligent man a confederacy of dunces will conspire against him
Reply
12-10-2012, 04:48 PM,
#12
RE: Santa - Christian Or Secular ?
(12-10-2012, 02:52 PM)sitra11ahra Wrote:
(12-02-2012, 02:29 PM)FastTadpole Wrote: Why lie to your children? They will remember that you lied to them and thus doubt other things that you teach as parents. It is convenient that the state distances itself from this lie, doesn't want anything to do with it and puts it all on the parents eroding trust in parents and not so much in parents. The state helps parents lie with letters to Santa (in Canada you will even get letters back at a mailing address of HOH OHO) and the mall Santas and a lot of children just go along with it pretending to believe just to get an extra present.

I dont think theres any conclusive evidence that shows believing in santa as a child leads to a future mistrust of your parents or that most children lie about believing just to get extra stuff. Just going off of personal experience, but I remember (slightly) when I stopped believing in santa as it was roughly the same time as everyone else in the class and while I was a little disappointed I can definitely say that I didnt feel any further mistrust or animosity towards my parents. Going to the mall to see santa, having big family get togethers, putting out cookies and all the other festivities that go with it are just something fun for the kids. Also idk if you remember but when youre a child you believe in all sorts of nonsensical things whether your parents tell you about them in stories or if you just make them up yourself (monsters under your bed, unicorns, etc). Once you reach your teens I doubt theres too many people who hear their parents explain an event in world history or give them an anecdote about when they were their age and stop and think to themselves, "well, the motherfucker lied to me about christmas when I was 7... I wonder what else hes lying to me about." Also I doubt any parents are out there rubbing their hands together at their clever deception or patting themselves on the back for tricking their child into behaving for 25 days especially since bad kids generally just act bad anyways. So if a kid grows up thinking their parents are compulsive liars on the grounds that santa wasnt real then theyre probably retarded anyways.

I was speaking not so much in the generalist sense of broken trust but moreso to the faith aspect in Christian families about the conception of God since Santa Claus / Saint Nicholas has become an iconic figure that is propagated just as much, if not more, than the baby Jesus.

To elaborate, this breaks down the old religion and, in turn, the old morality to bring in all that 'if it feels good, do it', 'you are your own god', there are many gods', 'mother earth is god', 'aliens are our gods', 'the god particle' or the 'balance of good and evil concept' that the new age religion(s) propagate.

By combining Santa with Jesus it creates a fallacy, or at least opens to door to contempt of the idea, in young people that if one is a fairy tale .. ergo the other must be false as well. From an outsiders viewpoint of Western Christian culture it really makes a mockery of them from a global perspective in propping up such an easily dismissable fabrication. Maybe even intertwining, optically and fundamentally, the ideals of Christianity with capitalism, although they are entirely separate.

Not going as far to say it is a conspiracy against Christians on so many levels but it does challenge their faith and that doubt can ebb against their faith, perhaps planting a seed to grow and manifest cracks in core of family and the church community constructs; both of which are the primary traditional foundations of justice and morality. Diminish them and you allow, state, law, chaos, alternative religions, money worship, guruism etc.. an opportunity to entrench themselves in spirit, thought, ideology and philosophy.

Still Santa is a Big Lie no matter how you slice it. Even this Spirit of Christmas giving, which could be a good thing, is perverted into the Spirit of Consumer Spending... like any other holiday it is monetized. From what you mentioned about pretending to believe just to get presents is really a amounts to a payoff for dishonesty.

Just because something is a common trait or action does not validate it as a virtue.
There are no others, there is only us.
http://FastTadpole.com/
Reply
12-11-2012, 12:18 AM,
#13
RE: Santa - Christian Or Secular ?
(12-10-2012, 04:48 PM)FastTadpole Wrote:
(12-10-2012, 02:52 PM)sitra11ahra Wrote:
(12-02-2012, 02:29 PM)FastTadpole Wrote: Why lie to your children? They will remember that you lied to them and thus doubt other things that you teach as parents. It is convenient that the state distances itself from this lie, doesn't want anything to do with it and puts it all on the parents eroding trust in parents and not so much in parents. The state helps parents lie with letters to Santa (in Canada you will even get letters back at a mailing address of HOH OHO) and the mall Santas and a lot of children just go along with it pretending to believe just to get an extra present.

I dont think theres any conclusive evidence that shows believing in santa as a child leads to a future mistrust of your parents or that most children lie about believing just to get extra stuff. Just going off of personal experience, but I remember (slightly) when I stopped believing in santa as it was roughly the same time as everyone else in the class and while I was a little disappointed I can definitely say that I didnt feel any further mistrust or animosity towards my parents. Going to the mall to see santa, having big family get togethers, putting out cookies and all the other festivities that go with it are just something fun for the kids. Also idk if you remember but when youre a child you believe in all sorts of nonsensical things whether your parents tell you about them in stories or if you just make them up yourself (monsters under your bed, unicorns, etc). Once you reach your teens I doubt theres too many people who hear their parents explain an event in world history or give them an anecdote about when they were their age and stop and think to themselves, "well, the motherfucker lied to me about christmas when I was 7... I wonder what else hes lying to me about." Also I doubt any parents are out there rubbing their hands together at their clever deception or patting themselves on the back for tricking their child into behaving for 25 days especially since bad kids generally just act bad anyways. So if a kid grows up thinking their parents are compulsive liars on the grounds that santa wasnt real then theyre probably retarded anyways.

I was speaking not so much in the generalist sense of broken trust but moreso to the faith aspect in Christian families about the conception of God since Santa Claus / Saint Nicholas has become an iconic figure that is propagated just as much, if not more, than the baby Jesus.

To elaborate, this breaks down the old religion and, in turn, the old morality to bring in all that 'if it feels good, do it', 'you are your own god', there are many gods', 'mother earth is god', 'aliens are our gods', 'the god particle' or the 'balance of good and evil concept' that the new age religion(s) propagate.

By combining Santa with Jesus it creates a fallacy, or at least opens to door to contempt of the idea, in young people that if one is a fairy tale .. ergo the other must be false as well. From an outsiders viewpoint of Western Christian culture it really makes a mockery of them from a global perspective in propping up such an easily dismissable fabrication. Maybe even intertwining, optically and fundamentally, the ideals of Christianity with capitalism, although they are entirely separate.

Not going as far to say it is a conspiracy against Christians on so many levels but it does challenge their faith and that doubt can ebb against their faith, perhaps planting a seed to grow and manifest cracks in core of family and the church community constructs; both of which are the primary traditional foundations of justice and morality. Diminish them and you allow, state, law, chaos, alternative religions, money worship, guruism etc.. an opportunity to entrench themselves in spirit, thought, ideology and philosophy.

Still Santa is a Big Lie no matter how you slice it. Even this Spirit of Christmas giving, which could be a good thing, is perverted into the Spirit of Consumer Spending... like any other holiday it is monetized. From what you mentioned about pretending to believe just to get presents is really a amounts to a payoff for dishonesty.

Just because something is a common trait or action does not validate it as a virtue.

I actually agree with you a lot more then I thought I did and on multiple levels. Maybe Im just partial towards santa clause because of my up bringing. I dont like the way in which the christmas season has been turned into the holiday season with an intense focus on the secular aspects of it.

And I would consider it a conspiracy against christianity. Christianity is constantly pulled apart and mocked in the media from discrediting its validity by claiming christ was a metaphor for this or that or by simply combing the text looking for any minute contradiction they can find. Islam is also misportrayed in the media and often times to a worse extent then the christians, but I would be quick to point out that judaism is barely ever analyzed in this fashion if at all. I guess santa would be harmless if the religious aspects of the holiday itself could be more openly praised celebrated. I definitely dont like the idea of some secular greed driven holiday replacing the celebration of the birth of jesus and Im not even christian. Its just plain underhanded deception and deceitfulness being carried out by the powers at be for their own means.
I just posted something in this very section about the court case where they ruled that nativity scenes were unconstitutional in public places and to be replaced with secular objects and that minorahs were perfectly constitutional and didnt correlate with forwarding any one religious idea specifically.
whenever there is a truly intelligent man a confederacy of dunces will conspire against him
Reply
12-11-2012, 05:53 PM,
#14
RE: Santa - Christian Or Secular ?
   
There are no others, there is only us.
http://FastTadpole.com/
Reply
12-11-2012, 06:09 PM, (This post was last modified: 12-11-2012, 06:13 PM by macfadden.)
#15
RE: Santa - Christian Or Secular ?






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