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Man made religion
08-06-2009, 07:35 PM,
#16
Man made religion
Quote:I don't think religion is just for security, identity, or even as an explanation of how the world is run or supposed to be running. It's more of a guidance and rememberance of what your purpose is and who made you. Science is a reminder of the universe in harmony. Politics in religion help keep people in harmony when not abused. The prophets and such people are only that, people, and were here just to remind us that the awakening after your physical death is the real deal. It's the journey you take to get there that matters at the moment.
:)

I find that to be an inspired definition of religion in its purest form.

I would like to extend, though, that there are esoteric teachings that promote awakening prior to physical death.
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08-06-2009, 08:28 PM,
#17
Man made religion
Quote:I don't think religion is just for security, identity, or even as an explanation of how the world is run or supposed to be running. It's more of a guidance and rememberance of what your purpose is and who made you.
i.e. an explanation. that's what religion does, it offers validity to a particular mode of thought and being. where we come from, how to behave and what will happen if we break the rules, or don't, as the case may be.

Quote:Science is a reminder of the universe in harmony. Politics in religion help keep people in harmony when not abused.
science in its own way, attempts to offer an explanation for being, at least from a physical, historical/evolutionary perspective (and personally i find very little harmony it the science preached from the academic/corporate pulpit). Politics also attempts to offer explanations but as well as incorporating current scientific theories, must also enmesh logistics, economics and ethics to create a picture/discourse of right and wrong and how things both came to be, and future vision. therefore, politics is religion - remember, before politics, there was only religion.

Quote:The prophets and such people are only that, people, and were here just to remind us that the awakening after your physical death is the real deal. It's the journey you take to get there that matters at the moment.
:)
agreed. it's not the prophets i have a problem with, it's the interpreters - charlatans - cynical or deluded, it makes no difference, the end product is the same, something less than Truth:)

Vitam Impendere Vero
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08-06-2009, 08:38 PM,
#18
Man made religion
Quote:I don't think religion is just for security, identity, or even as an explanation of how the world is run or supposed to be running. It's more of a guidance and rememberance of what your purpose is and who made you.

The only evidence of this is the same writings by men that claim to be the words of a deity. This is self serving circular logic and is the hallmark of organized religion. Seems like an omnipotent and omnipresent deity would give a more solid case to support worship in his name than self serving and contradictory writings by humans and then changed by humans over and over again to suit current congregations.

Good points, M'n'R.;)
“Today’s scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after
equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. ” -Nikola Tesla

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." -Jimi Hendrix
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08-07-2009, 04:47 AM,
#19
Man made religion
Quote:i.e. an explanation. that's what religion does, it offers validity to a particular mode of thought and being. where we come from, how to behave and what will happen if we break the rules, or don't, as the case may be.
Sure, Id like to call that 'guidance' though. We are not forced to follow anything, but there must be guides or signs to tell us which way we are heading or should be, because going the wrong way will only hurt you the most in the end.

Quote:science in its own way, attempts to offer an explanation for being, at least from a physical, historical/evolutionary perspective (and personally i find very little harmony it the science preached from the academic/corporate pulpit). Politics also attempts to offer explanations but as well as incorporating current scientific theories, must also enmesh logistics, economics and ethics to create a picture/discourse of right and wrong and how things both came to be, and future vision. therefore, politics is religion - remember, before politics, there was only religion.
Yeah I agree.

Quote:greed. it's not the prophets i have a problem with, it's the interpreters - charlatans - cynical or deluded, it makes no difference, the end product is the same, something less than Truth:)
Thats why we have a conscience to find the truth from the source, such as the Torah/Bible/Quran if you want.
:blush:
[Image: Palestinian_Dawn_by_Palestinian_Pride.jpg]
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08-07-2009, 06:32 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-07-2009, 06:37 AM by mothandrust.)
#20
Man made religion
Quote:
Quote:i.e. an explanation. that's what religion does, it offers validity to a particular mode of thought and being. where we come from, how to behave and what will happen if we break the rules, or don't, as the case may be.
Sure, Id like to call that 'guidance' though. We are not forced to follow anything, but there must be guides or signs to tell us which way we are heading or should be, because going the wrong way will only hurt you the most in the end.

Quote:science in its own way, attempts to offer an explanation for being, at least from a physical, historical/evolutionary perspective (and personally i find very little harmony it the science preached from the academic/corporate pulpit). Politics also attempts to offer explanations but as well as incorporating current scientific theories, must also enmesh logistics, economics and ethics to create a picture/discourse of right and wrong and how things both came to be, and future vision. therefore, politics is religion - remember, before politics, there was only religion.
Yeah I agree.

Quote:greed. it's not the prophets i have a problem with, it\'s the interpreters - charlatans - cynical or deluded, it makes no difference, the end product is the same, something less than Truth:)
Thats why we have a conscience to find the truth from the source, such as the Torah/Bible/Quran if you want.
:blush:

expect we're largely quibbling over semantics so not worth getting into a heated debate over, but personally i'm not sure that guidance/explanation isn\'t counter-productive, particularly when being interpreted by a figure of authority. because they have a position to protect/enhance, their perspective is corrupted.

personally i think the answers lie in our own hearts, that's where we commune with Truth. books/words can undoubtedly aid/enhance perspectives and understanding but nevertheless letting someone else dictate Truth invalidates it. plus it's a cop out.

"when the sage points at the moon, all the idiot sees is the finger" (ancient Chinese saying)

:D
Vitam Impendere Vero
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08-07-2009, 07:40 AM,
#21
Man made religion
You're a wise friend MnR, I enjoyed hearing your point of view.
Thanks
[Image: Palestinian_Dawn_by_Palestinian_Pride.jpg]
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08-07-2009, 11:01 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-07-2009, 12:00 PM by mothandrust.)
#22
Man made religion
:Dthank you

a little story/reflection i particularly like:

from The Prayer of the Fro Wrote:"Prisoner at the bar", said the Grand Inquisitor, "you have been charged with encouraging people to break with the laws, traditions and customs of our holy religion. How do you plead?"

"Guilty, Your Honour"

"And with frequenting the company of heretics, prostitutes, public sinners, the extortionist tax-collectors, the colonial conquerors of our nation - in short, the ex-communicated. How do you plead?"

"Guilty, Your Honour"

"Finally, you are charged with revising, correcting, calling into question the sacred tenets of our faith. How do you plead?"

"Guilty, Your Honour"

"What is your name, prisoner?"

"Jesus Christ, Your Honour"

(Some people are just as alarmed to see their religion practised as they are to hear it doubted.)

<div align='right'>Tony de Mello</div>
Vitam Impendere Vero
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08-07-2009, 11:45 PM, (This post was last modified: 08-07-2009, 11:48 PM by ---.)
#23
Man made religion
The one true and consistent aspect of all religions..even monotheisms..is the therianthrope. In fact there is a consistent thread from the upper paleolithic, if not even much older, all the way right to the here and now of contemporary culture...it seems something worth not overlooking imo

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08-08-2009, 12:09 AM,
#24
Man made religion
Quote:The one true and consistent aspect of all religions..even monotheisms..is the therianthrope. In fact there is a consistent thread from the upper paleolithic, if not even much older, all the way right to the here and now of contemporary culture...it seems something worth not overlooking imo
that's an interesting observation - although you'd have to say it's hardly broadcast within Judeo/Christian/Islamic mainstream teaching.
Vitam Impendere Vero
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08-08-2009, 12:24 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-08-2009, 02:07 AM by ---.)
#25
Man made religion
Quote:
Quote:The one true and consistent aspect of all religions..even monotheisms..is the therianthrope. In fact there is a consistent thread from the upper paleolithic, if not even much older, all the way right to the here and now of contemporary culture...it seems something worth not overlooking imo
that's an interesting observation - although you'd have to say it's hardly broadcast within Judeo/Christian/Islamic mainstream teaching.

It is very much so in the symbology of their seats of power though.. look at the pope for example he's a symbol for a bizarre human fish hybrid .. I doubt that is neatly explicable by astrotheology, at least from what I understand of it, either.

Not unless one contends the tripped out upper paleolithic artists had already created a mythology of the constellations above which they transcribed into their cave paintings..I can't personally see that being the case.

Because whatever the cause, the therianthrope seems to be something that for whatever reason has always been in our mind.
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08-08-2009, 08:34 AM,
#26
Man made religion
*lost*
Yup therianthrope.
[Image: Palestinian_Dawn_by_Palestinian_Pride.jpg]
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08-08-2009, 01:37 PM,
#27
Man made religion
Quote:*lost*
Yup therianthrope.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therianthropy
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08-08-2009, 07:48 PM,
#28
Man made religion
Alright now it makes sense:D
In Islam, its forbidden associate any religious figure with anything else. Its even forbidden to draw how you imagine the Prophet, simply because it can lead to idol worshipping like how the Orthodox Christians used to draw Jesus and pray towards it. The "Jesus fish" is something I recognized as wrong, but who am I to judge.
[Image: Palestinian_Dawn_by_Palestinian_Pride.jpg]
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08-15-2009, 10:47 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-15-2009, 11:18 AM by ---.)
#29
Man made religion
Quote:Alright now it makes sense:D
In Islam, its forbidden associate any religious figure with anything else. Its even forbidden to draw how you imagine the Prophet, simply because it can lead to idol worshipping like how the Orthodox Christians used to draw Jesus and pray towards it. The "Jesus fish" is something I recognized as wrong, but who am I to judge.


Yeah, when I look around the world and I see the reality of the theory placed in action I see a whole load of things wrong in Islam too but who I am to judge.

I guess I'm just glad I'm never was expected nor demanded to follow any certain religious constructed written all down in a handy helpful book format just because my background dictated so, then I would have had to go through all the stress and arguments of renouncing it as ridiculous, as I surely would have.

The insanity of man made religion dismays me.

Islam's just a pile of rocks waiting to be thrown at people, same as the rest of them. jmo. sorry

Do you believe in sharia law MMG?
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08-15-2009, 01:24 PM,
#30
Man made religion
Quote:
Quote:Alright now it makes sense:D
In Islam, its forbidden associate any religious figure with anything else. Its even forbidden to draw how you imagine the Prophet, simply because it can lead to idol worshipping like how the Orthodox Christians used to draw Jesus and pray towards it. The "Jesus fish" is something I recognized as wrong, but who am I to judge.


Yeah, when I look around the world and I see the reality of the theory placed in action I see a whole load of things wrong in Islam too but who I am to judge.

I guess I'm just glad I'm never was expected nor demanded to follow any certain religious constructed written all down in a handy helpful book format just because my background dictated so, then I would have had to go through all the stress and arguments of renouncing it as ridiculous, as I surely would have.

The insanity of man made religion dismays me.

Islam's just a pile of rocks waiting to be thrown at people, same as the rest of them. jmo. sorry

Do you believe in sharia law MMG?
my two penneth, when i should be packing:

i think the notion of Sharia Law is fundamentally represented. whenever you see it discussed in western media they'll use examples of stoning women who've been raped or whatnot. of course this is abhorrent but it's also a type of strawman argument designed to disguise the real arguments. to my mind you cannot have administrative law separate from an ethical one. that's why i say politics is religion, because it's about deciding what is Truth or 'right' and 'wrong'. it is quite impossible to have two systems running alongside each other because (at least) one must be false.

i ask you, if Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed... were to return to this earth would it be as priests or politicians? or would they see any difference?

incidentally, i have some sympathy with the concept of not creating graven images, because of the likelihood of idol worship, but, i also think idols do not have to be images, and the Quran istelf, and of course the Bible, actually become idols in themselves (to most):

"when the sage points at the moon, all the idiot sees is the finger":D
Vitam Impendere Vero
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