Thread Rating:
  • 1 Vote(s) - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Military experiments on civilians?
10-04-2009, 06:45 AM,
#46
Military experiments on civilians?
Quote:Priypjat:

A thoughtful counter, for sure... but the premise behind your sole motivation is flawed... in my humble opinion icewhale does not attempt to overtly portray himself as 'good' even if he candidly says his vow is to take the MOD to task for what he feels is evidence of flagrant disregard for public safety... extending to the malign allegedly?
It's obviously neither.
"Flagrant disregard" is WRONG from the Icewhale's own evidence. It shows them "paying regard" which is the exact opposite of "flagrant disregard".

I surely wasn't attempting to say that the MOD were 'paying regard' to public safety according to Icewhale's interpretations of such declassified files.

Quote:But they're all DEAD, Nik. The Cold War exists like the Berlin Wall.

It's not exactly the pepsi generation that are now calling the shots though, is it?

Quote:The period of the fifties will be forever remembered as the Dirty War, when protagonists on both sides of the Iron Curtain released a flurry of biological materials and toxins upon one another.
The War was brought to a halt by desperate intercessions from the Latin countries, India, and China, but not before mortality had exceeded 50%. Volunteers from Africa and Australia joined these countries to help with the administration of food aid and help restart essential industries.

That of course didn't happen. These people (no matter what you think of them) were responsible for the difference between THAT scenario and the present one. Don't forget it, you lucky little useless eaters.

I have never considered it as a binary proposition. As the opinion I held here about FRIENDLY elements within the US administration who scuppered Bush and his cronies setting about Iran in the last embers of his terribly destructive and murderously profiteering administration of ghouls, surely attests to. Evidence of these FRIENDLIES within the chiefs of staff and intel services was in the forcing out of the NIST report revising the predicted date of potential weapons grade Iranium enrichment capabilities of Iran by almost a decade into the future...followed a little over a week later by the declassification of facts confirming that the Gulf of Tonkin incident was a fabrication to bring about war in SE Asia, which just happened to coincide with another stunt just of the coast of iran where the MSM were trying to portray the Iranian navy as potentially attacking ships in the US battle group.

I don't think that EVERYBODY working within the bureaucracy of the system itself is innately corrupt but I know the people who invariably have been calling the shots, so to speak, for a very long time,ARE and that's probably ultimately the WHY of the Cold War anyhow as with much of the conflict since the late 17th century. The superstrata may morph but the thread of continual domination leading to a finite numbers of doorsteps is relatively easy to trace.

I thank the people that defused potential scenarios like you imagined..but that bears little relation to the fact that population reduction is the new OFFICIAL edict.

The concept of territoriality of traditionally described and shaped by nation was and is becoming more and more diffuse in inverse proportion to the ascendancy of the multi-national corporation.

In my humble opinion, the perspective of equating something akin to the ancients Persians using crude but effective forms of biological warfare against adversarial cultural groups of the day is REDUNDANT.

If I'm right, the thread is about the supposition in general, yes? Not just about a series of experiments conducted in the Uk during the cold war..

In many ways, pertinent as they may be to the overall discussion in some others they are not.

It's a different point in time with a different mandate. Gulf war syndrome. Swine flu. Autism. the list goes on.

Whether the Cold War did indeed exist or whether it did in fact actually fizzle or alternatively whether it might still actually be the pre-eminent political focus and the M.E. acts as more 'do-able' staging ground for the struggle, such as Mackinder might have proposed ..is not the point. Although Gazprom's standing army is not either something to forget.

We've seen that a million here, half a million there is a perfectly acceptable state pf play in the saga of the march of corporations..corporations don't have a protectotate role over people.. they just own them.

The premise that tptb only would kill overseas but would never attack 'their own people' is illogical and quaint.
Reply
10-04-2009, 03:59 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-04-2009, 04:17 PM by icewhale.)
#47
Military experiments on civilians?
Quote:You remind me of Alex Jones, William Thomas, and a few others. You are merely a rabble-rouser, as they are. You use information as they do, merely for the purpose of self-aggrandization.
You are the possessor of ALL the information we have been talking about here. Would I bother to pick it up for a moment? No, because most all of the event's over. The only thing motivating me to communicate with you is your wilful and malevolent interpretation which is keen to characterize the MOD as bad - and you as good.

No, thats not the motivation.

In your original post you were, intentionally or not, economical with the truth. I pointed this out, and you didn't like being shown up telling half-truths and it has snow-balled from there - hence your retreat into name-calling and smear attacks dressed up as opinion. ;):D

C’mon Jazzroc, now you really are clutching at straws. How on earth can you accuse me of ‘wilful and malevolent interpretation’, apart from personal prejudice, when you’ve freely admitted that you haven’t a read the declassified relevant reports? :rolleyes:

If you’re so sure about this why not produce some evidence which proves correct your little rant.

Quote:YOU don't think WW2 was some sort of big deal?

WW2?

What are you on about, Jazzroc – these field trials were conducted during the Cold War, not WW2.

Quote:<span style="color:#0000FF">You don't think that Josef was going to premptively whack us? Think again. The only thing that stopped him was the absolutely pre-prepared nature of his enemy. Now that really dangerous bastard's gone (and much of his war machine) we're faced by - you? Not exactly a big threat, but your lies "MOD sprayed whole of UK with toxins and bacteria" could lead to riots, and people could be killed.


You really have lost the plot haven't you? :wacko:

Riots and people could be killed? Wtf? :rolleyes:

Care to show me where I said the "MOD sprayed whole of UK with toxins and bacteria"?


C'mon Jazzroc you've got to admit that those words of yours appear indicative of who is the real 'lying rabble-rouser' here.



Quote:<span style="color:#0000FF">You may disbelieve the intensity of the Cold War if you wish.

You obviously are unaware that dozens of atom bombs were flying through the skies CONTINUALLY for fifteen years, awaiting recall from their homebases or "GO" from the President of the USA.

Once again you make false assumptions - it wasn't just you that went through the Cold War Jazzroc.

You've forgotten I have previously informed you that I was a member of the Royal Observer Corps during the 1970's - No 9 Group Headquarters, Yeovil. As such I had a very close-up ‘view’ of the state of play regarding nuclear war, and the scale of devastation that a full nuclear attack on the UK would bring. One occasion of note happened when I and 9 other colleagues were attending a training evening in the 180 person ‘semi-sunk bunker’, and Nixon decided to put his forces on DEFCON III (global nuclear alert) without initially informing the UK. That was an interesting night. If there had been a 'bolt from the blue', there would have been 10 of us trying to run an entire GHQ!

Believe me Jazzroc, if pushed the Soviets were the same as the West - the presence of a few BW detection devices wouldn't have deterred either side from going to war.

Quote:<span style="color:#0000FF">You might have a case if thousands had turned up ill. Well, it seems they didn't, and the MOD was right in its assessment that their program had an acceptable risk. What's the story? The MOD investigated the consequences of non-nuclear warfare, and nobody got ill.

You have absolutely no proof that nobody was made ill from these experiments – just as I have no proof that they did. But the big difference is that I have evidence that that the field trials used material and practices which had the potential to cause harm to those exposed to the aerosols, and that on occasion CDEE and MRD Porton Down scientists were aware of this risk.

There is also the case, put by Prof Spratt in his Independent Review, that, "<span style="color:#0000FF">if any infections were caused by the bacterial releases, it is very unlikely that they would have been considered to be anything unusual by GPs, who were not made aware of the Dorset Defence Trials".

In other words, it is highly likely that any field trials-related chest or blood infections would have gone unnoticed and unreported.

Quote:Do I support what the UK did at the time? I certainly do, for they had to formulate a viable defence policy.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'a viable defence policy'.

Do you mean you support the conduct of all public area BW field trials (such as the ones conducted during the Cold War in the UK), even if an unquantifiable number of people suffered adverse health effects, some of which might have proved fatal?

Or do you mean you support the conduct of research, relevant to the development of BW detection equipment for service personnel (Porton and the MOD are not responsible for civilian protection - that's left to the Home Office and NHS)?

You forget that I told you last year I have absolutely no problem with field trials being conducted in public areas, as long as they use inert materials. I also informed you that there was no absolute necessity for Porton to have conducted the latter bacterial aerosol trials across the southern counties of the UK, as they could have been safely conducted on the enormous Suffield Range in Canada.

My argument, as I have previously explained at length, is not with the scientists, but with Porton Down’s lack of safety protocols, and of independent oversight.

Quote:<span style="color:#0000FF">There's NO way I'm bothering to go into dilution factors or the relative dangers of bacteria with you. You can go find your education elsewhere.

Make up your mind old son, only a few posts ago you asked me a great number of questions and told me <span style="color:#0000FF">“I have wanted this argument with you - so...”

That said, going by your previous woeful lack of knowledge, I suppose I should be grateful to be spared any 'education' from you concerning these field trials. B)

So what’s changed in a couple of posts that’s made you want to make smear attacks, and then run away? The fact that I can back up my claims and you can’t? :rolleyes:

Unfortunately, your selective memory has let you down once again, as it has with your resurrected wilful misinterpretation of my previous description of ‘milling’. Remember how originally you wouldn’t even consider the possibility that ‘milling’ could achieve a perfect particle size – or that sampled bacteria could be identified with the use of anti-sera?

I assume that your resurrection of that myth, was to enable you to avoid commenting on the crucial fact that the bacteria sprayed in these field trial weren't just aerosols of 'wild' bacteria, such as those you previously mentioned could be found on one’s body - instead, they were massive aerosols of bacteria which had been specially produced by Porton to be of a size which would by-pass the body's natural defences (between 1 – 6 µ), see link.

Extract from MRE Porton Down film - The Lyme Bay Trials


Let me put it simply for you:

Contrary to your previous assertions, MRE Porton Down repeatedly (1963-1975) disseminated massive aerosols of LIVE bacteria across a number of southern counties of England. (MRE FTR No3; et al)

The bacteria were specially produced to be of a size which would by-pass the body’s natural defences and penetrate the deepest part of the lungs, the alveoli. (MRE FTR No3; The Lyme Bay Trials film 1966)

Prior to their dissemination in populated areas, the E.coli MRE162 was subjected only to a limited toxicity test; the Bacillus globigii was not subject to any form of toxicity test. [MRE FTR No 3]

Porton Down’s public area BW field trials were, by their very nature, experimental – on occasion field trials didn’t go as planned, and significantly increased the risk of adverse health effects to those exposed. [MRE FTR No 3; Ventilation Trial No 2]

There was no absolute necessity for the field trials to have been conducted in populated areas such as Dorset, Devon, Hampshire, Wiltshire, Somerset, etc. or even the UK as the purpose was to investigate the possibilities of long-distance travel and its subsequent detection, not the vulnerability of the UK. Porton had previously used the enormous Canadian CBW Range at Suffield to good effect and could have done again. Especially when one considers the Canadians had spent time in the late fifties conducting long-distance bacterial trials on the Range.

Both types of bacteria remained viable even after travelling 40-50 miles downwind. [MRE FTR No 3: et al]

Both types of bacteria have been recognised as having the potential to cause adverse heath effects to susceptible individuals. [1999 Independent Review; US National Academy of Science Institute of Medicine 2007]

It is wrong to assume that the conduct of public area BW field trials was confined to the Cold War. We only learn of these tests when the MOD decide to declassify them. To date, the MOD have only declassified material relating those public area BW field trials conducted up until the year 1976 (although some scientific reports, such as those for the 1975 DICE trials, still remain classified). It is known that further experiments were conducted, but so far the associated scientific reports remain classified. The author of the MOD commissioned 1999 Independent Review, Prod Spratt is of the opinion that biological detection experiments ‘are going on all of time’.

It remains official UK Government policy to permit Porton Down scientists to conduct large-scale BW experiments, similar to those conducted during the Lyme Bay Trials, should the Ministry of Defence deem it necessary. [letter - Lord Gilbert, Minister for Defence Procurement – to Matthew Taylor M.P. 1999; letter from DERA 1999]

As I mentioned before, after the events of August 2008 it can't be ruled out that, sooner or later, the MOD will become so concerned about a perceived threat from Russia, that they initiate the drafting of proposals for new series of large-scale public area BW detection trials.


icewhale
&Whilst these trials were designed for specific research purposes, they demonstrated, in a striking way, the feasibility of small scale biological warfare.
An appreciable dose of viable bacteria was achieved over an area greater than 1,000 square miles by the release of only 120 gallons of suspension&
End statement of MRE Porton Down Film, &The Lyme Bay Trials& 1966
Reply
10-04-2009, 11:30 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-04-2009, 11:32 PM by JazzRoc.)
#48
Military experiments on civilians?
.
Reply
10-04-2009, 11:30 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-04-2009, 11:43 PM by JazzRoc.)
#49
Military experiments on civilians?
Icewhale, somehow in the excitement you have forgotten to respond to some questions I asked of you.

So I repeat them:

Porton's extensive public area BW field trials were done for many reasons, not just to simply see 'how the material dispersed'
So name them, and give your reasons. Let's see what they are and if they're worth consideration.

repeatedly expose the population of England and Wales to material which they knew was hazardous
So give your reasons for this statement. Let's see what they are and if they're worth consideration.

Sometimes they conducted 'massive crosswind line-releases' of live bacteria over populated areas
So name them, and list the bacteria, concentrations, and locations. Let's see what they are and if they're worth consideration.

On occasion they conducted 'offensive' orientated BW research in public areas, such as: The Westwood Trials, The Railway Coach Trials, the Lyme Bay 'S3' Trials in which bacteria were coated with a protective substance, to enable the survivability of bacterial aerosols sprayed in daylight.
Well, that seems as though they must have started in a viable state. List the bacteria, concentrations, and stand-off ranges. Let's see what they are and if they're worth consideration.

Some, not all, test subjects were so-called 'volunteers'. Porton never gave them any such title - CDEE used the term 'observers'. 'Volunteers' only became used as a term when doubts surfaced in the media, about the ethics of using National Service personnel as test subjects in some very dodgy human experiments.
You'd better tell me what the experiments were or are. Offhand I'd say that conducting clandestine experiments on National Service personnel is very immoral.

even as late as the mid-sixties servicemen were being 'officially spiked' with acid with no prior informed consent.
Were these experiments the responsibility of the same people? Once more I need info from you on this.

Strangely, the first definition of bacillus globigii I turned up in Wiki as ubiquitous, relatively harmless, in fact even as an alternative medicine:

Bacillus is a genus of rod-shaped bacteria and a member of the division Firmicutes. Bacillus species are either obligate or facultative anaerobes, and test positive for the enzyme catalase. Ubiquitous in nature, Bacillus includes both free-living and pathogenic species. Under stressful environmental conditions, the cells produce oval endospores that can stay dormant for extended periods. These characteristics originally defined the genus, but not all such species are closely related, and many have been moved to other genera.

Industrial significance
Many Bacillus species are able to secrete large quantities of enzymes. Bacillus amyloliquefaciens is a species of Bacillus that is the source of a natural antibiotic protein barnase (a ribonuclease), alpha amylase used in starch hydrolysis, the protease subtilisin used with detergents, and the BamH1 restriction enzyme used in DNA research.
A portion of the Bacillus thuringiensis genome was incorporated into corn (and cotton) crops. The resulting GMOs are therefore resistant to some insect pests.

Use as model organism
Bacillus subtilis is one of the best understood prokaryotes, in terms of molecular biology and cell biology. Its superb genetic amenability and relatively large size have provided the powerful tools required to investigate a bacterium from all possible aspects. Recent improvements in fluorescence microscopy techniques have provided novel and amazing insight into the dynamic structure of a single cell organism. Research on Bacillus subtilis has been at the forefront of bacterial molecular biology and cytology, and the organism is a model for differentiation, gene/protein regulation, and cell cycle events in bacteria.


Where am I wrong here? Have I picked the wrong bacillus? Is bacillus subtilis also bacillus globigii?
Reply
10-05-2009, 12:20 AM, (This post was last modified: 10-05-2009, 12:29 AM by JazzRoc.)
#50
Military experiments on civilians?
Priypjat:

It's not exactly the pepsi generation that are now calling the shots though, is it?
The shots are fired at different targets and from a different gun.

I have never considered it as a binary proposition.
Nor have I. "Friendly fire" exists at all times.

I don't think that EVERYBODY working within the bureaucracy of the system itself is innately corrupt but I know the people who invariably have been calling the shots, so to speak, for a very long time, ARE and that's probably ultimately the WHY of the Cold War anyhow as with much of the conflict since the late 17th century. The superstrata may morph but the thread of continual domination leading to a finite numbers of doorsteps is relatively easy to trace.
How very Ickean of you. Or bankers. It would be necessary to prove a banking/blood lines/population control link.

I thank the people that defused potential scenarios like you imagined... but that bears little relation to the fact that population reduction is the new OFFICIAL edict.
I must have missed that. Show me briefly how.

The concept of territoriality of traditionally described and shaped by nation was and is becoming more and more diffuse in inverse proportion to the ascendancy of the multi-national corporation.
Ascendancy? Descendency, unless the multinats get windpowered and/or tooled up.

In my humble opinion, the perspective of equating something akin to the ancients Persians using crude but effective forms of biological warfare against adversarial cultural groups of the day is REDUNDANT.
I don't share your view here. There seems to be an infinitely expanding possibility of resource wars.

If I'm right, the thread is about the supposition in general, yes? Not just about a series of experiments conducted in the Uk during the cold war.. In many ways, pertinent as they may be to the overall discussion in some others they are not. It's a different point in time with a different mandate. Gulf war syndrome. Swine flu. Autism. the list goes on.
That list is the consequence of "accidents" by Man with Nature. Admittedly there was some "pushing" but such non-random "accidents" normally get nipped in the bud by selection. Science improves. If you really believe that ALL such incidents were the result of deliberation, then find the evidence and publish it.

Whether the Cold War did indeed exist or whether it did in fact actually fizzle or alternatively whether it might still actually be the pre-eminent political focus and the M.E. acts as more 'do-able' staging ground for the struggle, such as Mackinder might have proposed ..is not the point. Although Gazprom's standing army is not either something to forget.
We've seen that a million here, half a million there is a perfectly acceptable state pf play in the saga of the march of corporations.. corporations don't have a protectorate role over people.. they just own them.
The premise that tptb only would kill overseas but would never attack 'their own people' is illogical and quaint.

What's illogical and quaint is the idea that the Lyme Bay Test was in any way a "PTB" attempt to "attack people in Dorchester".

If it WAS such an attempt - and no-one (above the norm) reported sick, then these guys weren't very powerful, were they?

Don't tell me: it was merely a rehearsal and they'll use the REAL stuff next time. Perfect.
Reply
10-05-2009, 06:49 PM,
#51
Military experiments on civilians?
Quote:Priypjat:

It's not exactly the pepsi generation that are now calling the shots though, is it?
The shots are fired at different targets and from a different gun.

Absolutely.

Quote:I have never considered it as a binary proposition.
Nor have I. "Friendly fire" exists at all times.

I was talking about "friendlies" not "friendly fire". It is not quite the same thing. i thought "friendly fire" is shooting yourself in the foot or your compatriot in the head..that's not what I meant.

Quote:I don't think that EVERYBODY working within the bureaucracy of the system itself is innately corrupt but I know the people who invariably have been calling the shots, so to speak, for a very long time, ARE and that's probably ultimately the WHY of the Cold War anyhow as with much of the conflict since the late 17th century. The superstrata may morph but the thread of continual domination leading to a finite numbers of doorsteps is relatively easy to trace.
How very Ickean of you. Or bankers. It would be necessary to prove a banking/blood lines/population control link.

Not at all and it's apparently the employ of a overly dismissive tack of such proportions as to clearly evidence myopia on your part. Don't come all mystery Babylon on me ffs. amusing as it is. Monarchical stock is and always has been a superstrata. For all I know it may very well be a stud farm for the 144,000. :rolleyes::P International Bankers are generally total Wankers that much is clear..the one's I bumped into in Prague I can well attest to as being twats. I don't see that Malthusian whispers are getting any LESS popular in 'civilised' media but that the REVERSE has been for over the last 10 years and still is, is certainly true

If you haven't noticed, the CONTROLLED press is rife with panic about population numbers to the extent that we may well be looking at enforcement of communist chinsese one child policy legislation in the not so distant future, for example..it's openly being talked about in powerful green liberal circles and already has begun to be diffused into the western 'public mind' through popular press ...in the very least this would quite entirely result in the scenario of a bureaucracy mandating and normalising a somewhat massive cultural programme of TO BE COME ACCEPTABLE state mandated abortion...TO KEEP THE NUMBERS DOWN..become familiar with the actuality of it as a state practive and the sociological ramifications in China, if you are not already. But that's just one of the ideas being tossed about isn't it?

Did you hear about swine flu? It appeared over night very aggressively in one tiny subdistrict of Mexico City.

When confronted on the issue of MASSIVE increases in the rates of asthma across parts of the world by 'a chemtrailer' as you describe them..your rebuff was that these increases were completely explicable by mundane sources of pollution from our 'civilisations'..you DID NOT suggest that the increases were not true...and it's just as well because they indeed are..

And now we have a vaccine being force fed to us GLOBALLY for a virus that appears all nice and patchwork international in construction out of nowhere overnight that looks more likely to become deadly from recombination in HUMAN BODIES EXPOSED to the H1N1 vaccine AND the seasonal flu jab... and here's the gag - ppl with asthma might want to avoid the accine because it could definitely kill them not just maybe.

As I said,I wonder if it'll turn out to have sterilised a lot of children as a 'side effect'. It's pure speculation.

And the food code 'revising' from next year is something to look forwards to, as well. It was peculiar how ,even with the poor parts of the world producing a BUMPER CROP this year, the COSTS of the harvest were MUCH HIGHER for the PRODUCERS. The economy of scarcity is a strange thing. As our children and maybe us will find out pointedly..and how the already starving would laugh bitterly if they had any strength left to.

I'm glad they didn't manage to get that multimillion potential dollar fine for possessing vitamin C legislated in Canada.

If you don't believe that the great goal of RAPID population reduction is now being somewhat openly promulgated with increasing priority then I can't help you with that.

We have also stated the belief that this planet can support numbers around the PREDICTED TOTAL DOOM SCENARIO of 9 billion or so.

So if they don't want to cull us because of the exponential speed and potential of technological advances, they why are they continuing to starve the world and paint every doom and gloom scenario imaginable UNDER THE SUN?

Including attacking 14 year old children and vocally ripping into their computed generated map using NASA software that concluded that the Earth would NOT get hit by Apophis in 2039 as completely irrelevant when clearlythe 14year old is a potential genius...apparently we are supposed to imagine that the comet probably WILL hit Earth if you follow the NASA propaganda.

Oh and their report of population infrastructure due to effects of potential solar flares in 2012..that's a good one too.

How do you get in the club of Rome..is the club of Rome the Vaticon or is that a joke?

plus plus plus..

So, in sum, we can observe and live through (or not) the manifesting social controls which will begin to reduce the population...they are putting the global population on a diet...get rid of the fat, it's making the great sun god unhappy.

A lot of people around the world didn't take part in soaking the place with teflon..usually because they didn't have access to it...but they see the population reduction mandate much more clearly than you...in many many countries...because it has already been in effect there for quite a while.

Quote:I thank the people that defused potential scenarios like you imagined... but that bears little relation to the fact that population reduction is the new OFFICIAL edict.
I must have missed that. Show me briefly how.

check out their websites and available material, take it from there. You say you already read the juicy bits from the infamously controversial initial report from the Club of Rome .. fun isn't it?

Quote:The concept of territoriality of traditionally described and shaped by nation was and is becoming more and more diffuse in inverse proportion to the ascendancy of the multi-national corporation.
Ascendancy? Descendency, unless the multinats get windpowered and/or tooled up.

I disagree. For a rough example pertaining to the hardiness of corporations, were you not surprised that the archetypal corportation,IG Farben, actually wasn't dissolved as a conglomerous corporate entity until 50 years after the war or did I just inform you of that? The corporations are not dying. More like they are shedding skins for a new one and hoping that the sun doesn't burn it ..slithering coils around the globe sniffing out the potential of future mergers IMHO.

And anyway, they are tooled up..what do you think blackwater et al and the gazprom private force are if not standing armies?. it's well beyond blueprints and countries are largely private corporate entities with a state apparatus nowadays anyhow, realistically.

Quote:In my humble opinion, the perspective of equating something akin to the ancients Persians using crude but effective forms of biological warfare against adversarial cultural groups of the day is REDUNDANT.
I don't share your view here. There seems to be an infinitely expanding possibility of resource wars.

Absolutely. I meant in terms of a clearly demarcated traditional 'norm' in the context of cultural grouping phenomena, whereby the 'deployers' of BW's don't use them of their own populace...I was discussing the fact that multinational military combines are less and less bound to any inherent 'morals' of being constrained to coming from any 'national' base. Foreign troops being amassed for 'duty' in America could highlight this, for instance. I just think that anyone who gets in the way gets taken out *shrugs* less people would be less of a headache bureaucratically all in all now that technology's finally beginning to get up to speed.

In this time of population reduction rhetoric becoming vogue an interest in the press from the world of gerontology is an interesting intellectual counterweight. JMO

If you have little to know idea what i am talking about, then I'm sorry about that but "what you don't know can't hurt you" NOT

Quote:If I'm right, the thread is about the supposition in general, yes? Not just about a series of experiments conducted in the Uk during the cold war.. In many ways, pertinent as they may be to the overall discussion in some others they are not. It's a different point in time with a different mandate. Gulf war syndrome. Swine flu. Autism. the list goes on.
That list is the consequence of "accidents" by Man with Nature. Admittedly there was some "pushing" but such non-random "accidents" normally get nipped in the bud by selection. Science improves. If you really believe that ALL such incidents were the result of deliberation, then find the evidence and publish it.

There are still plenty of veterans who would disagree with your conviction that it is not possible that an experiment was being conducted or that they were being spiked so that they wouldn't cause any trouble later...the vietnam ones were easier to demonise, Iimagine.

It is known fact that on at least one occasion soldiers were knowingly injected with tainted vaccine stock and that was exposed as a financial thing. I'd suggest that the general persepctive is that OUR lives are not "cheap", they are just considered to be of little to no value at all and it isn't really their place to act apon that belief.

Quote:Whether the Cold War did indeed exist or whether it did in fact actually fizzle or alternatively whether it might still actually be the pre-eminent political focus and the M.E. acts as more 'do-able' staging ground for the struggle, such as Mackinder might have proposed ..is not the point. Although Gazprom's standing army is not either something to forget.
We've seen that a million here, half a million there is a perfectly acceptable state pf play in the saga of the march of corporations.. corporations don't have a protectorate role over people.. they just own them.
The premise that tptb only would kill overseas but would never attack 'their own people' is illogical and quaint.

What's illogical and quaint is the idea that the Lyme Bay Test was in any way a "PTB" attempt to "attack people in Dorchester".

If it WAS such an attempt - and no-one (above the norm) reported sick, then these guys weren't very powerful, were they?

Don't tell me: it was merely a rehearsal and they'll use the REAL stuff next time. Perfect.

I'm not telling you anything of the kind and don't believe I ever have said anything like it. I just said: "The premise that tptb only would kill overseas but would never attack 'their own people' is illogical and quaint." and I stand by it too.
Reply
10-06-2009, 10:28 AM, (This post was last modified: 10-06-2009, 10:33 AM by JazzRoc.)
#52
Military experiments on civilians?
Priypjat:

I was talking about "friendlies" not "friendly fire". It is not quite the same thing. i thought "friendly fire" is shooting yourself in the foot or your compatriot in the head... that's not what I meant.
There's a wider analogy. Almost everywhere I ever worked was more competitive than that. One found oneself in "combat" simply to defend oneself.

Don't come all mystery Babylon on me ffs. amusing as it is.
It could be that I haven't seen enough of priviledge and power. It will rarely affect anyone who hasn't rendered themselves sensitized to it. I have never liked it.

If you haven't noticed, the CONTROLLED press is rife with panic about population numbers
I don't read the press. I have a high quality of life. Reading the press lowers it. I can check headlines in a Spanish bar anytime.

to the extent that we may well be looking at enforcement of communist chinese one child policy legislation in the not so distant future, for example.
Something I though was a good idea when I was five. Well, two children.

become familiar with the actuality of it as a state practice and the sociological ramifications
It's still a good idea as far as I'm concerned. The Earth is NOT infinite.

Did you hear about swine flu? It appeared over night very aggressively in one tiny subdistrict of Mexico City.
It'll kill in the region of 900,000 people before it has finished. As Spanish Flu it killed 1 in 5 in Tenerife in about six weeks.

When confronted on the issue of MASSIVE increases in the rates of asthma across parts of the world by 'a chemtrailer' as you describe them..your rebuff was that these increases were completely explicable by mundane sources of pollution from our 'civilisations'..you DID NOT suggest that the increases were not true...and it's just as well because they indeed are.
The only reason you would think that is your paranoia. Pollen coupled with diesel particulates and oxides of nitrogen and sulfur, and ozone can kill the sick, old, and young. They all arrive with the rise of cities. Research it.

And now we have a vaccine being force fed to us GLOBALLY for a virus that appears all nice and patchwork international in construction out of nowhere overnight that looks more likely to become deadly from recombination in HUMAN BODIES EXPOSED to the H1N1 vaccine AND the seasonal flu jab... and here's the gag - ppl with asthma might want to avoid the vaccine because it could definitely kill them not just maybe.
And here you're plain ignorant. Vaccination works and has done so for more than a century. There have always been a few bad reactions. Would you rather 50 died, or 50 million died? Go to school.

And the food code 'revising' from next year is something to look forwards to, as well. It was peculiar how,
even with the poor parts of the world producing a BUMPER CROP this year, the COSTS of the harvest were MUCH HIGHER for the PRODUCERS. The economy of scarcity is a strange thing.

In the absence of politics - it'll be the thing.

If you don't believe that the great goal of RAPID population reduction is now being somewhat openly promulgated with increasing priority then I can't help you with that.
It will happen before it's promulgated.

We have also stated the belief that this planet can support numbers around the PREDICTED TOTAL DOOM SCENARIO of 9 billion or so.
It could support 30 Bn. And be full of fish. Not with capitalism around, though.

So if they don't want to cull us because of the exponential speed and potential of technological advances, they why are they continuing to starve the world and paint every doom and gloom scenario imaginable UNDER THE SUN?
I see you feel deeply. You accord them much more power than they actually have.

Including attacking 14 year old children and vocally ripping into their computed generated map using NASA software that concluded that the Earth would NOT get hit by Apophis in 2039 as completely irrelevant when clearly the 14year old is a potential genius... apparently we are supposed to imagine that the comet probably WILL hit Earth if you follow the NASA propaganda.
Missed that snippet.

So, in sum, we can observe and live through (or not) the manifesting social controls which will begin to reduce the population...they are putting the global population on a diet...get rid of the fat, it's making the great sun god unhappy. A lot of people around the world didn't take part in soaking the place with teflon..usually because they didn't have access to it...but they see the population reduction mandate much more clearly than you...in many many countries...because it has already been in effect there for quite a while.
Children are the life insurance of the poor. The cure is to offer a credible insurance scheme. Something like a full storehouse and the key to its padlock.

check out their websites and available material, take it from there. You say you already read the juicy bits from the infamously controversial initial report from the Club of Rome .. fun isn't it?
It said we'd be in deep shit by now. We are. It was correct.

The corporations are not dying. More like they are shedding skins for a new one and hoping that the sun doesn't burn it ..slithering coils around the globe sniffing out the potential of future mergers IMHO.
That might not work.

And anyway, they are tooled up.. what do you think blackwater et al and the gazprom private force are if not standing armies?. it's well beyond blueprints and countries are largely private corporate entities with a state apparatus nowadays anyhow, realistically.
They'll fall apart with other things to do. Hopefully. I just hate weapons stockpiles, don't you?

Absolutely. I meant in terms of a clearly demarcated traditional 'norm' in the context of cultural grouping phenomena, whereby the 'deployers' of BW's don't use them of their own populace...I was discussing the fact that multinational military combines are less and less bound to any inherent 'morals' of being constrained to coming from any 'national' base. Foreign troops being amassed for 'duty' in America could highlight this, for instance. I just think that anyone who gets in the way gets taken out *shrugs* less people would be less of a headache bureaucratically all in all now that technology's finally beginning to get up to speed.
I have always said you should withdraw your support. Walk away. Don't take the services, don't pay the taxes. Get on yer bike. Shanks's pony. Become self-sufficient. Go away and live in a part of the world which has NO VALUE to them. Leave. Don't help them. Remove yourself.

In this time of population reduction rhetoric becoming vogue an interest in the press from the world of gerontology is an interesting intellectual counterweight. JMO
The reduction in young has already have begun to affect the care of the old. It will soon be unsupportable anyway.

There are still plenty of veterans who would disagree with your conviction that it is not possible that an experiment was being conducted or that they were being spiked so that they wouldn't cause any trouble later...the vietnam ones were easier to demonise, Imagine. It is known fact that on at least one occasion soldiers were knowingly injected with tainted vaccine stock and that was exposed as a financial thing. I'd suggest that the general persepctive is that OUR lives are not "cheap", they are just considered to be of little to no value at all and it isn't really their place to act apon that belief.
Soldiers give their lives to the defence of their country. Civilians don't.

I'm not telling you anything of the kind and don't believe I ever have said anything like it. I just said: "The premise that tptb only would kill overseas but would never attack 'their own people' is illogical and quaint." and I stand by it too.
Well I could never believe that. Britain has a thousand other reasons why I'm not there, but THAT isn't one of them.
Reply
10-06-2009, 11:43 PM,
#53
Military experiments on civilians?
Priypjat:

I was talking about "friendlies" not "friendly fire". It is not quite the same thing. i thought "friendly fire" is shooting yourself in the foot or your compatriot in the head... that's not what I meant.
There's a wider analogy. Almost everywhere I ever worked was more competitive than that. One found oneself in "combat" simply to defend oneself.



*Dear god, this is going to be a pain in the arse with the quotation brackets. We keep going until the software cannot hqandle it, yes?:)sigh*

Again, that may wellbe so but what I was talking about were 'friendly' 'rogue' intel 'pockets' within the Anglo-American bloc..such as those that prevented a war with Iran from already having had kicked off, like I speculated from available evidence.


Don't come all mystery Babylon on me ffs. amusing as it is.
It could be that I haven't seen enough of priviledge and power. It will rarely affect anyone who hasn't rendered themselves sensitized to it. I have never liked it.


I was awarded a book for a synchronistic poem I once wrote by the head of the Catholic Church in the the British Isles..he seemed a bit preoccupied and creepy..met some hired thugs for oil companies in the Pacific and some influential freemasonic politicians and a no longer contact maintained freemasonic police relative who worked on the Peter Sutcliffe case in an overseeing capacity... I don't think it'smatters how high up the pyramid youmight have encountered someone, in terms of facing the outlandish but TRUE and SHOCKING reality that it's actually a little joke and how could you not see it? You've been wearing chains for hundreds of years at least, not our fault you're thick as pig shit?



If you haven't noticed, the CONTROLLED press is rife with panic about population numbers
I don't read the press. I have a high quality of life. Reading the press lowers it. I can check headlines in a Spanish bar anytime.


Chin chin to that.

to the extent that we may well be looking at enforcement of communist chinese one child policy legislation in the not so distant future, for example.
Something I though was a good idea when I was five. Well, two children.


That's not the point...look at how it pragmatically manifests and would do inany over arching bureaucracy...you want that?? I know you like to toy with contrariness her..and why not?...but come on, JR. LOOK AT THE ABUSE ENABEDby thatpolicy,in China. It's truly staggering and if you do advocate it without attention then you are an exemplification of the reality of 'the banality of evil'... I don't think you are 'evil', I'm just talking specifically about the banality of evil as an/the IMPORTANT concept.



become familiar with the actuality of it as a state practice and the sociological ramifications
It's still a good idea as far as I'm concerned. The Earth is NOT infinite.
[/quote]

:drunk: you get your kids enthused into being sterilised with smiling optimism and then get back to me :rolleyes:


Did you hear about swine flu? It appeared over night very aggressively in one tiny subdistrict of Mexico City.
It'll kill in the region of 900,000 people before it has finished. As Spanish Flu it killed 1 in 5 in Tenerife in about six weeks.


And then the bird flu...please do something to assure me that you are not totally jaded now.. it's right in front of your face, T..just give yourself a bit of a shake and reappraise without the subjective blinding anti-slant. Let chemtrails and Hovind go for a bit, come deeper and allow a virtual open mind in your head to explore the evidence about who owns you..why not? "you only live once":).. pls. view as general CT pro-human warmth.


When confronted on the issue of MASSIVE increases in the rates of asthma across parts of the world by 'a chemtrailer' as you describe them..your rebuff was that these increases were completely explicable by mundane sources of pollution from our 'civilisations'..you DID NOT suggest that the increases were not true...and it's just as well because they indeed are.
The only reason you would think that is your paranoia. Pollen coupled with diesel particulates and oxides of nitrogen and sulfur, and ozone can kill the sick, old, and young. They all arrive with the rise of cities. Research it.


How is that Paranoia..? You're just stating what I said I presumed was your position? That has fuck all to do with paranoiaTM lulz. i do research believe it or not...but I'm autistic, so it might manifest different...either way, I appreciate your approach but please widen the parameters of what you will consider a little.. eg. the mystery babylon aspect has MUCH to it, information of which doesn't in anyway permeate from religiosity.

You might think I am mad but I used to practive magik..sometimes it seemed to work actually..beyond what might appear ordinary chance...maybe it was a case of random coin flipping comes goo but I don't think so.

You should see the freedom I have to explore REALITY by NOT being a scientist.

As I already said long ago, if you really want to know how things are from an example look into the UN monarchical intel service provided child meat for ancient ritual ring that 'suffered' limited exposure in Belgium...you said you are not interested in that..and I thought, 'well, if you can't look it, how can you make any of these general comments beyond what you know?

I'm not intending any hint of arrogance obviously...but just take a look..it isn't nice that so many children disappear every year and there's no why or where they go. A lot of them go to rituals, get used to it and don't guffaw because that is the world you live in. Do you really think that I am so intellectually incompetent as to make such outlandish claims if I did not know it to be so?... I said I thought it was a missile because of the testimony of a different plane...you made me look again and see that a 757 did go into the pentagon..or something very like one, anyhow...and I revised my statement..without any burgeoning humility...I have stood by the idea that children are being farmed and abducted for ritual for many years because I know it to be true...care to have a moment devoid of scorn to appreciate this and perhaps look for yourself.

Of course, all other from the 200,000 that die needlessly every day from being ripped off by the global village.


And now we have a vaccine being force fed to us GLOBALLY for a virus that appears all nice and patchwork international in construction out of nowhere overnight that looks more likely to become deadly from recombination in HUMAN BODIES EXPOSED to the H1N1 vaccine AND the seasonal flu jab... and here's the gag - ppl with asthma might want to avoid the vaccine because it could definitely kill them not just maybe.
And here you're plain ignorant. Vaccination works and has done so for more than a century. There have always been a few bad reactions. Would you rather 50 died, or 50 million died? Go to school.


Your mockery of utilitarianism stinks to high heaven. Suck Glaxo Smith Kline's fetid penis and don't trouble me with such nonsense. You are SUPPOSED to be my elder and better in this 4D illusion..to put it Ickeingly.


And the food code 'revising' from next year is something to look forwards to, as well. It was peculiar how,
even with the poor parts of the world producing a BUMPER CROP this year, the COSTS of the harvest were MUCH HIGHER for the PRODUCERS. The economy of scarcity is a strange thing.

In the absence of politics - it'll be the thing.


it IS the new super vogue that everyone's cheming up for, 'Dummkopf':)huhu you feel it too even in your hideaway..and it certainly isn't what Al Gore is corping on about..nice play on words.




If you don't believe that the great goal of RAPID population reduction is now being somewhat openly promulgated with increasing priority then I can't help you with that.
It will happen before it's promulgated.


They are more probably coinciding with each other.. in you and yours are in Former East Germany and in need of a tent , I will endeavour to sort you out.


We have also stated the belief that this planet can support numbers around the PREDICTED TOTAL DOOM SCENARIO of 9 billion or so.
It could support 30 Bn. And be full of fish. Not with capitalism around, though.


:type for 'bow suckers' smiley:


So if they don't want to cull us because of the exponential speed and potential of technological advances, they why are they continuing to starve the world and paint every doom and gloom scenario imaginable UNDER THE SUN?
I see you feel deeply. You accord them much more power than they actually have.
[/quote]

No, they are VERY powerful. Pls see current quote in my signature. I am of the conviction that although the poor of rich want to hang onto the status quo in dumb fear of freedom, the actual poor have been gearing up for a while now.. we look to the Chinese population for solidarity...but it is so difficult now the one child policy has dictated sucha macho frustrated phenomena with so few women daring to speak up...and that's coming from someone who doesn't think everything H:makow says about the co-option of the women's rights movement as early as the late 19th century is total bunk..though i do think some of it is. Sorry Henry..illuminati is an excellently provocative and thoughtful book..I hope some concener's buy it. He's Jewish but it is a very critical book of the Judaic cult, JR..It might be too much for you in that you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between valid and deep socio-political insight and sheer frustrated release of pressure...ie there is stuff in that book about the 'jews did do it' theory that IS pertinent should you ever want to fully get into the water and not rail crap asunder in our general direction as 'conspiracy theorists', when we know you haven't done your homework in many areas...we are multi-disciplinary and just because we are open to consider wild prospects and look at them opnly doesn't mean we are actually up the wrong creek..you are still here, after all.

Including attacking 14 year old children and vocally ripping into their computed generated map using NASA software that concluded that the Earth would NOT get hit by Apophis in 2039 as completely irrelevant when clearly the 14year old is a potential genius... apparently we are supposed to imagine that the comet probably WILL hit Earth if you follow the NASA propaganda.
Missed that snippet.


check it out. It's not a 'snippet' even though it may not have made the bars in Spain.


So, in sum, we can observe and live through (or not) the manifesting social controls which will begin to reduce the population...they are putting the global population on a diet...get rid of the fat, it's making the great sun god unhappy. A lot of people around the world didn't take part in soaking the place with teflon..usually because they didn't have access to it...but they see the population reduction mandate much more clearly than you...in many many countries...because it has already been in effect there for quite a while.
Children are the life insurance of the poor. The cure is to offer a credible insurance scheme. Something like a full storehouse and the key to its padlock.


Yes, absolutely agreed...where sufficiency is present and life is generallylacking in hardship, do we indeed find, ovwr a period of only one generationeven, in some cases, a marked reduction in birth rate per capita..IN ALL HUMAN HABITATIONS THUS FAR "OBSERVED": As such, I implicity agree with you...we can support MUCH MORE PPL on this beautiful water enshrouded rock but we need to start ending the bulshit in Bangladesh .. we can make it standard politic friendly and just go for the corporation...crack squads would be on home visitas to the any vunerable secret society member that has been shown to murder children.. it's a radical approach but I get your meaning, we should stoptalking shit and implore folk like you to get a view through the public telescope while the coins we stuck in it are still running for you...it's not about you, JR..it's about our kids and theirs. I'm assuming you already have that from a different angle.

I'm really happy today...I'm one BIG step closer to being recognisedas an intelligent handicapped person... if I can make use of such a priviledge and study something like history, then I will...and in four years I'll send you my thesis painstakingly mapping it out without fear of anyones' derision for you to read. Until such time, breath in, rotate your shoulders until you feel relaxed whilst saying the mantra...'I help keep the bar high on the site, I am affirmed..I shall be true to myself and endeavour to engage with openmind... you do.. but some of the pithy remark is really closed off..not like some of your interlocutors aren't clearly too dismissive as well...but man, I don't get it...either specialise in waht you know and stick to it like you opine is your purpose here or RTFM on the other stuff before making comment...it's a suggestion not an egoistic decree.



check out their websites and available material, take it from there. You say you already read the juicy bits from the infamously controversial initial report from the Club of Rome .. fun isn't it?
It said we'd be in deep shit by now. We are. It was correct.
[/quote]

It said/says that a cull is a necsssary thing to acclimatise ppl to.



The corporations are not dying. More like they are shedding skins for a new one and hoping that the sun doesn't burn it ..slithering coils around the globe sniffing out the potential of future mergers IMHO.
That might not work.
[/quote]

Hopefully not.

Quote:And anyway, they are tooled up.. what do you think blackwater et al and the gazprom private force are if not standing armies?. it's well beyond blueprints and countries are largely private corporate entities with a state apparatus nowadays anyhow, realistically.
They'll fall apart with other things to do. Hopefully. I just hate weapons stockpiles, don't you?

Depends who has themand why, ultimately..but generally yes..depends on the weapons too obviously...arms against fascism? Sure, why not.



Absolutely. I meant in terms of a clearly demarcated traditional 'norm' in the context of cultural grouping phenomena, whereby the 'deployers' of BW's don't use them of their own populace...I was discussing the fact that multinational military combines are less and less bound to any inherent 'morals' of being constrained to coming from any 'national' base. Foreign troops being amassed for 'duty' in America could highlight this, for instance. I just think that anyone who gets in the way gets taken out *shrugs* less people would be less of a headache bureaucratically all in all now that technology's finally beginning to get up to speed.
I have always said you should withdraw your support. Walk away. Don't take the services, don't pay the taxes. Get on yer bike. Shanks's pony. Become self-sufficient. Go away and live in a part of the world which has NO VALUE to them. Leave. Don't help them. Remove yourself.


i agree but I am only so functional to attempt it like I was free...how stupid ppl like me must be...I don't know about bank jobs but if you want to go and bust tax protesters out of gaol where possible COUNT ME IN.


In this time of population reduction rhetoric becoming vogue an interest in the press from the world of gerontology is an interesting intellectual counterweight. JMO
The reduction in young has already have begun to affect the care of the old. It will soon be unsupportable anyway.


I was thinking more in terms of the life extension breakthroughs for the formidably rich.

There are still plenty of veterans who would disagree with your conviction that it is not possible that an experiment was being conducted or that they were being spiked so that they wouldn't cause any trouble later...the vietnam ones were easier to demonise, Imagine. It is known fact that on at least one occasion soldiers were knowingly injected with tainted vaccine stock and that was exposed as a financial thing. I'd suggest that the general persepctive is that OUR lives are not "cheap", they are just considered to be of little to no value at all and it isn't really their place to act apon that belief.
Soldiers give their lives to the defence of their country. Civilians don't.


It's not a reason to purposefully fuck them up though, is it?


I'm not telling you anything of the kind and don't believe I ever have said anything like it. I just said: "The premise that tptb only would kill overseas but would never attack 'their own people' is illogical and quaint." and I stand by it too.
Well I could never believe that. Britain has a thousand other reasons why I'm not there, but THAT isn't one of them.


They you don't know jackshit about how it seemingly works..no offence intended...forgive it the post is a buit disorientated, special day..had a couple of drinks...I might have meandered into a ramble, to an extent.

nb. I had to remove all the [quote] boxes as there were too many for the software..though I'm slöshed, I hope it hasn't come out as COMPLTETE tripe, I fear lack of quote boxes might prenunciate that effect..

"ah well"
Reply
10-08-2009, 09:27 AM,
#54
Military experiments on civilians?
Not at all. It's half the reason I'm here. Will get back. Thanks.:)
Reply
10-08-2009, 10:35 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-08-2009, 10:37 PM by JazzRoc.)
#55
Military experiments on civilians?
Priypjat:

Again, that may wellbe so but what I was talking about were 'friendly' 'rogue' intel 'pockets' within the Anglo-American bloc.. such as those that prevented a war with Iran from already having had kicked off, like I speculated from available evidence.
Here I defer to your longer reading of it.

I was awarded a book for a synchronistic poem I once wrote by the head of the Catholic Church in the the British Isles..he seemed a bit preoccupied and creepy..met some hired thugs for oil companies in the Pacific and some influential freemasonic politicians and a no longer contact maintained freemasonic police relative who worked on the Peter Sutcliffe case in an overseeing capacity... I don't think it matters how high up the pyramid you might have encountered someone, in terms of facing the outlandish but TRUE and SHOCKING reality that it's actually a little joke and how could you not see it? You've been wearing chains for hundreds of years at least, not our fault you're thick as pig shit?
To be free you have to pay for it. There is a choice of ways to do this. You could flip a coin.

That's not the point... look at how it pragmatically manifests and would do in any overarching bureaucracy... you want that?? I know you like to toy with contrariness here... and why not?... but come on, JR. LOOK AT THE ABUSE ENABLED by that policy in China. It's truly staggering and if you do advocate it without attention then you are an exemplification of the reality of 'the banality of evil'... I don't think you are 'evil', I'm just talking specifically about the banality of evil as an/the IMPORTANT concept.
Yes it's always banal. I can't see how it's possible to alter China's internal policy except by entering it, where you'll have a Planck-sized force. Outside it, where you have no power, you have no evil.

you get your kids enthused into being sterilised with smiling optimism and then get back to me
If you asked them they'd tell you that they would have explain more than two.

And then the bird flu...please do something to assure me that you are not totally jaded now.. it's right in front of your face, T.. just give yourself a bit of a shake and reappraise without the subjective blinding anti-slant. Let chemtrails and Hovind go for a bit, come deeper and allow a virtual open mind in your head to explore the evidence about who owns you..why not? "you only live once":).. pls. view as general CT pro-human warmth.
The nature of epidemics you won't understand, as they involve evolutionary arguments. I side with science. The main motivation of most scientists is quite apolitical and anarchistic.

i do research believe it or not... but I'm autistic, so it might manifest differently... either way, I appreciate your approach but please widen the parameters of what you will consider a little.. eg. the mystery babylon aspect has MUCH to it, information of which doesn't in anyway permeate from religiosity.
Nobody is strong enough by themselves. The more viewpoints the better. Even if the factuality is somewhat short of truth there is something to be said for the esoteric, for we each contain it, and aspects of it will be revealed in our perceptions.

You might think I am mad but I used to practise magic... sometimes it seemed to work actually... beyond what might appear ordinary chance... maybe it was a case of random coin flipping comes goo but I don't think so.
That's about the biggest plea for the legitimization of confirmation bias...

You should see the freedom I have to explore REALITY by NOT being a scientist.
You are exploring something, but it isn't reality. If you were exploring reality you could formulate a theory, make a prediction, and run an experiment and test the results. That's what reality is: something you can get hold of.

As I already said long ago, if you really want to know how things are from an example look into the UN monarchical intel service provided child meat for ancient ritual ring that 'suffered' limited exposure in Belgium... you said you are not interested in that... and I thought, 'well, if you can't look it, how can you make any of these general comments beyond what you know?
I don't profess to know much about socio- and psychopathology. It's a matter of taste. I have read of the murders of thousands of people (with details) and millions of others (without so much detail) and I don't have the taste for any more.
Most of the comments I've been making have been along two channels:- a) technical claims which aren't possible b ) employment experience (of how other people behave) in sixty-five separate workplaces.


I'm not intending any hint of arrogance obviously...but just take a look..it isn't nice that so many children disappear every year and there's no why or where they go. A lot of them go to rituals, get used to it and don't guffaw because that is the world you live in. Do you really think that I am so intellectually incompetent as to make such outlandish claims if I did not know it to be so?... I said I thought it was a missile because of the testimony of a different plane...you made me look again and see that a 757 did go into the pentagon..or something very like one, anyhow...and I revised my statement..without any burgeoning humility...I have stood by the idea that children are being farmed and abducted for ritual for many years because I know it to be true...care to have a moment devoid of scorn to appreciate this and perhaps look for yourself.
I haven't suggested you were arrogant. Why crime happens is mysterious to me. The way I see it, if you adopt it the REAL problem with it is the way you're going to wake up the next day (and so forth) with full knowledge of it. Only amnesia might save you.

Of course, all other from the 200,000 that die needlessly every day from being ripped off by the global village.
I know. We don't seem to be able to lift a finger.

Your mockery of utilitarianism stinks to high heaven. Suck Glaxo Smith Kline's fetid penis and don't trouble me with such nonsense. You are SUPPOSED to be my elder and better in this 4D illusion..to put it Ickeingly.
I AM a utilitarian. A pragmatic one.

it IS the new super vogue that everyone's cheming up for, 'Dummkopf':)huhu you feel it too even in your hideaway..and it certainly isn't what Al Gore is corping on about... nice play on words.
I'm not that dumm. In a world of diminishing REAL resources it ISN'T the producers that win. Your idea might work with diamonds, but it won't work with oil.

They are more probably coinciding with each other.. if you and yours are in Former East Germany and in need of a tent, I will endeavour to sort you out.
If it's the other way you're welcome here.:)

No, they are VERY powerful. Pls see current quote in my signature. I am of the conviction that although the poor or rich want to hang onto the status quo in dumb fear of freedom, the actual poor have been gearing up for a while now.. we look to the Chinese population for solidarity... but it is so difficult now the one child policy has dictated sucha macho frustrated phenomena with so few women daring to speak up... and that's coming from someone who doesn't think everything H:makow says about the co-option of the women's rights movement as early as the late 19th century is total bunk... though i do think some of it is. Sorry Henry..illuminati is an excellently provocative and thoughtful book..I hope some concerners buy it. He's Jewish but it is a very critical book of the Judaic cult, JR..It might be too much for you in that you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between valid and deep socio-political insight and sheer frustrated release of pressure...ie there is stuff in that book about the 'jews did do it' theory that IS pertinent should you ever want to fully get into the water and not rail crap asunder in our general direction as 'conspiracy theorists', when we know you haven't done your homework in many areas...we are multi-disciplinary and just because we are open to consider wild prospects and look at them openly doesn't mean we are actually up the wrong creek... you are still here, after all.
I'm not jewish. I'm anti-Zionist but not anti-jew. I think there WAS a holocaust. We should protect our diversity because it is a great treasure. That makes me pro-everyone and anti war disease and death.

Including attacking 14 year old children and vocally ripping into their computed generated map using NASA software that concluded that the Earth would NOT get hit by Apophis in 2039 as completely irrelevant when clearly the 14year old is a potential genius... apparently we are supposed to imagine that the comet probably WILL hit Earth if you follow the NASA propaganda. check it out. It's not a 'snippet' even though it may not have made the bars in Spain.
I still haven't checked this yet. sorry.

either specialise in what you know and stick to it like you opine is your purpose here or RTFM on the other stuff before making comment...it's a suggestion not an egoistic decree.
Well I'm still learning. I like a broad base to my experience too. Thanks for the pleasant banter. I've had a litre of 5.5% Dorada beer which is enough to relax me out...

I was thinking more in terms of the life extension breakthroughs for the formidably rich.
Hmmm. I can imagine many scenarios where virtual immortality is more a curse than a blessing. It might be great if it happens to you in a burgeoning society. But say it takes place in a sterile society?

It's not a reason to purposefully fuck them up though, is it?
That's true in the present instance. All morality and ethics adheres to a relative standard (if at all pragmatic and practical): there are many scenarios which could constrain morality this way or that. What's right for one time may not be so later.

They you don't know jackshit about how it seemingly works... no offence intended... forgive it if the post is a bit disorientated, special day... had a couple of drinks... I might have meandered into a ramble, to an extent.
That's the way I like it.:)
Reply


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Declassified: Predator Drone Turns Itself On At Military Base Frank2 4 987 02-08-2013, 10:35 AM
Last Post: thokling
Information DARPA Continues Human Experiments to Create Military Super Soldiers FastTadpole 1 972 09-26-2012, 12:24 AM
Last Post: h3rm35
  Israel as the US Military Technology Transfer Conduit to China and Russia since the 1990s FastTadpole 2 2,639 08-12-2011, 02:43 PM
Last Post: FastTadpole
  Senators say military cyber ops not reported h3rm35 0 591 01-15-2011, 10:15 PM
Last Post: h3rm35
  HAARP-The Military Pandora's Box-Electromagnetic Manipulation of the Earth's Climate h3rm35 0 2,037 03-03-2010, 10:34 PM
Last Post: h3rm35
  Military Links Drones into Unmanned Squadrons FastTadpole 1 1,077 11-04-2009, 08:25 PM
Last Post: Easy Skanking
  Military robot 'hops' over walls Nibiru 7 1,855 09-24-2009, 03:06 PM
Last Post: SiLVa
  Climate change excuse for US military intervention? TriWooOx 1 729 08-12-2009, 10:35 AM
Last Post: JazzRoc
  Upcoming Military Robot Could Feed on Dead Bodies April 8 1,847 08-05-2009, 06:35 PM
Last Post: GeneralODay
  Computer Virus Hits U.S. Military Base in Afghanistan --- 0 935 12-01-2008, 02:48 PM
Last Post: ---

Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)