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Pope Says Hell And Damnation Are Real And Eternal
03-28-2007, 08:58 AM, (This post was last modified: 03-28-2007, 09:20 AM by FighterFromAfar.)
#1
Pope Says Hell And Damnation Are Real And Eternal
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21460090-2,00.html

Quote:HELL is a place where sinners really do burn in an everlasting fire, and not just a religious symbol designed to galvanise the faithful, Pope Benedict XVI has said.

Addressing a parish gathering in a northern suburb of Rome, the Pope said that in the modern world many people, including some believers, had forgotten that if they failed to "admit blame and promise to sin no more", they risked "eternal damnation - the inferno".

Hell "really exists and is eternal, even if nobody talks about it much any more".

The Pope, who as cardinal Joseph Ratzinger was head of Catholic doctrine, noted that "forgiveness of sins" for those who repented was a cornerstone of Christian belief.

He recalled that Jesus had forgiven the "woman taken in adultery" and prevented her from being stoned to death, observing: "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

God had given men and women free will to choose whether "spontaneously to accept salvation...the Christian faith is not imposed on anyone, it is a gift, an offer to mankind".

<span style="color:red">[But if you don't accept the offer, you'll go to hell, where you'll "burn in an everlasting fire."]

Vatican officials said the Pope - who is also the Bishop of Rome - had been speaking in "straightforward" language "like a parish priest".

He had wanted to reinforce the new Catholic catechism, which holds that hell is a "state of eternal separation from God", to be understood "symbolically rather than physically".

Agostino Paravicini Bagliani, a church historian, said the Pope was "right to remind us that hell is not something to be put on one side" as an inconvenient or embarrassing aspect of belief.

It was described by St Matthew as a place of "everlasting fire" (Matthew xxv, 41).

"The problem is not only that our sense of sin has declined, but also that the world wars and totalitarianisms of the 20th century created a hell on earth as bad as anything we can imagine in the afterlife," Professor Bagliani said.

In 1999, pope John Paul II said heaven was "neither an abstraction nor a physical place in the clouds, but that fullness of communion with God, which is the goal of human life".

Hell, by contrast, was "the ultimate consequence of sin itself. Rather than a place, hell indicates the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselves from God, the source of all life and joy".

In October, the Pope indicated that limbo, supposed since medieval times to be a "halfway house" between heaven and hell, was "only a theological hypothesis" and not a "definitive truth of the faith".

The Times, London, in The Australian

You could drive a truck through all the logical holes in the Church's teachings on heaven and hell. It's the classic Either/Or fallacy. Either Heaven or Hell. Well, maybe limbo, but we don't know if that exists.

If you don't know whether limbo exists, how the hell do you know that Hell exists? Can't you ask God if limbo exists? Try praying real hard. :wink: Wait, if Hell doesn't exist, then maybe... God doesn't exist as a separate, all-powerful entity?

<span style="color:red">But really, it's your choice whether or not to believe everything we say is true without any historical evidence to show that the Bible is true or even that it was written by the people who supposedly wrote it. But if you don't believe us, then you'll go to hell, where you'll burn in an everlasting fire.

Either/Or Fallacy, with a bit of Coersion/Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt tossed into the mix to keep people from asking questions.
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03-28-2007, 09:40 AM,
#2
Pope Says Hell And Damnation Are Real And Eternal
hahahahahhahahahahahahahhahahahahaha
&Spirituality is not a child play. My words will tear apart anyone who listens to them....&
&The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live.&

- Nisargadatta Maharaj
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03-28-2007, 03:53 PM,
#3
Pope Says Hell And Damnation Are Real And Eternal
Is heaven available, I'll take it.

You guys can take the Hell for all eternity.

But if you ask nicely I can get a pass.

This sounds like Studio 54 and who gets to go in.
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03-28-2007, 07:40 PM,
#4
Pope Says Hell And Damnation Are Real And Eternal
Yeah, the Cult Leaders are shaking the boogie-man stick again.
Ooooohh.
I am terrified beyond the capability to from rational thought, Ray.
“Today’s scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after
equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. ” -Nikola Tesla

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." -Jimi Hendrix
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03-29-2007, 03:04 AM,
#5
Pope Says Hell And Damnation Are Real And Eternal
i don't care where i go after death

just keep me away from the popes and politicians
Vitam Impendere Vero
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03-29-2007, 06:35 AM,
#6
Pope Says Hell And Damnation Are Real And Eternal
No discussion on Hell can be complete until reviewing the contents of this site. http://lastofthedockers.blogspot.com/search?q=
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03-29-2007, 06:48 AM,
#7
Pope Says Hell And Damnation Are Real And Eternal
What if only a percentage of people on the earth, fucked everything and everybody up and over always, only makes sense that there would be a separation in the afterlife.

Dunno, fire is very painful to the touch.
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03-29-2007, 07:39 AM,
#8
Pope Says Hell And Damnation Are Real And Eternal
What sense? How do you know what the afterlife consists of? I don't suppose you have any personal experience with the afterlife.
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03-29-2007, 10:52 AM,
#9
Pope Says Hell And Damnation Are Real And Eternal
Quote:just keep me away from the popes and politicians
:)You just wished for paradise.
Salem Kirban quotes Weishaupt gloating over his successes in a letter to Illuminatus Cato:

The most admirable thing of all is that great Protestant and reformed theologians [Lutherans and Calvinists] who belong to our Order really believe they see in it the true and genuine mind of the Christian religion. Oh man, what can not you be brought to believe?

These people swell our numbers and fill our treasury; get busy and make these people nibble at our bait.. .but do not tell them our secrets. They must be made to believe that the low degree that they have reached is the highest
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03-29-2007, 12:51 PM,
#10
Pope Says Hell And Damnation Are Real And Eternal
I can't remember where I read it. But it was said that, once in hell you could get out if you became virtuous. As if hell was to convert you to becoming "good" so to speak. I personally hadn't heard of that idea before, but found it interesting. Instead of saying you stayed there burning for eternity.
I'm lumping together various information concerning law (the illusion of control through words) here: http://honesty.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=59
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03-29-2007, 01:13 PM,
#11
Pope Says Hell And Damnation Are Real And Eternal
Quote:I can't remember where I read it. But it was said that, once in hell you could get out if you became virtuous. As if hell was to convert you to becoming "good" so to speak. I personally hadn't heard of that idea before, but found it interesting. Instead of saying you stayed there burning for eternity.

not sure how one becomes virtuous with Satan's flaming phallus up your arse - but then again, perhaps that is the quickest way to virtue
Vitam Impendere Vero
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03-29-2007, 05:03 PM,
#12
Pope Says Hell And Damnation Are Real And Eternal
Well, the pope would know since he spawned from there. So he must be right.
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03-29-2007, 08:45 PM,
#13
Pope Says Hell And Damnation Are Real And Eternal
Quote:What sense? How do you know what the afterlife consists of? I don't suppose you have any personal experience with the afterlife


God will you please THINK! All of the creation you see around you, all the uniqueness, all the relatively speaking short live-spans here - OF COURSE THERE IS MORE AFTER THIS. If you respect the genius that created all this, its easy to extrapolate and trust there is more.

If you don't believe fire is painful, you fucking put your hand on the red burner. If there are forces in people that ARE SO BAD, that all they are worth is an eternity of that then realize that those were the forces that always fought to destroy all of creation. Is that such a difficult concept?

Re: Personal experience with the afterlife - yeah, by the way I think I was shown something, but I'm not going to share something that personal at the moment. But, yeah.
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03-30-2007, 05:28 AM, (This post was last modified: 03-30-2007, 05:38 AM by FighterFromAfar.)
#14
Pope Says Hell And Damnation Are Real And Eternal
Of course, I know there is an afterlife. I just think that you don't know enough about it to be able to pass judgement on others who think differently from you on this matter.

All of your arguments come from Christian teaching... there is no way to verify that this teaching is the truth, because it is either based on the Bible, as in most Christian denominations, or alternatively, on "Sacred Tradition," which is another word for how, over time, they filled all the ambiguities, contradictions, and inconsistencies that the Bible left them with. Not to mention that the story of Hebrew history was almost a complete fiction, written by the scribe Ezra around 800 B.C. during the Babylonian captivity, to give the Hebrews the idea that they were a race chosen by God, so they could treat other races as lower than themselves. The Bible, founded on this rather shaky basis, only gets worse when you consider that the Council of Nicaea declared the whole body of Jesus' private oral tradition as heretical.

Quote:At great cost to all of us, Jesus' private/Gnostic teachings were "outlawed" with the Roman Emperor Constantine's decision to make Christianity the state religion. For along with that decision came his command that all Christian bishops choose between Jesus' public/Orthodox and private/Gnostic teachings. In this way Constantine could unite the empire under one official church doctrine. His command was carried out at the Council of Nicaea (325 AD) in the document Christians call the Nicene Creed and its shorter version, the Apostles' Creed. In effect, the Nicene Creed, which reflects Jesus' public teachings, became the one official doctrine of Orthodox Christianity, and in turn, made his private Gnostic teachings an outlawed heresy.

Soon after the Council, "an imperial edict ordered that all books by Arius [the principal advocate of Jesus' Gnostic teachings at Nicaea], and others like him, should be burned, and made concealment of such a book punishable by death." (2) Bishop Eusebius (260-340), Constantine's court historian, restructured all Biblical literature to coincide with the council's decision. In 325, Eusebius issued an "Ecclesiastical history [in which time was portrayed as] the battleground of God and Satan, and all events as advancing the triumph of Christ." (3) From that time on, Eusebius' Ecclesiastical history acted as the official supernatural model for future interpretations of Jesus' ministry. The intellectual character of Gnosticism was in conflict with Eusebius' supernatural model and was outlawed. "The Middle Ages had begun." (4)

The Emperor is long dead. We no longer need to live in the dark ignorance of Constantine's shadow. We can now examine for ourselves every aspect of Jesus' outlawed Gnostic teachings, and bring back into our lives that part of Jesus' ministry which Constantine stole from us.

This is not an easy mission for it is, as it was for Jesus, a difficult idea to teach. Now, like then, most priests * and scribes *, meaning theologians, intellectuals, and academics, were so convinced of their own beliefs that they could not grasp Jesus' teachings. When asked why he taught in parables, Jesus said, "The reason I talk to them in parables is that they look without seeing and listen without hearing or understanding," (Matt 13:13) "Those who saw so dimly could only be further blinded by the light of full revelation, (Mk 1:34+). Jesus, therefore, does not reveal with complete clarity the true nature of the Messianic kingdom which is unostentatious [natural]. Instead he filters the light [or ideas he presents] through symbols, the resulting half-light is nevertheless a grace from God, an invitation to ask for something better, and accept something greater." (Note C 13:13 jbv)

Note: We cannot accept, without question, the traditional historical accounts of Jesus' teachings to be totally accurate. They are limited to interpretations of his ministry since the Council of Nicaea. We must not overlook the fact that today's dictionaries and accepted translations of Greek words, and even thesauruses, also reflect the Judaeo-Christian worldview, which is a product of that same council, and not necessarily that of 1st century philosophy or Gnostic Christians. The word "pagan" in Webster's Dictionary, for example, is said to mean "a person without religion." This definition is consistent with Judaism or Christianity, which consider their God, and therefore their religion, the only true religion. But this definition does not represent pagans, who worshiped God in other ways.

http://www.gnosticchristianity.com/frameset_CH4.htm

Yes, there is good and bad, we do have souls, and there are consequences for our actions, good or bad, in the afterlife. But your concept of what is good and bad is skewed by the fact that you look at reality through the prism of "Christian" dogma, such that Christianity is the only good in the world, therefore all other teachings must be from Satan.

In addition, you haven't even considered the possiblity that reincarnation might in fact be the reality, and that we live several lives as humans in order to learn what we need to learn, and grow spiritually.
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03-30-2007, 05:48 AM,
#15
Pope Says Hell And Damnation Are Real And Eternal
Quote:What sense? How do you know what the afterlife consists of? I don't suppose you have any personal experience with the afterlife.


How do you know it does not exist? There are so many things that we believe in that we have never been seen. unfortunately the after life can only be found after life is completed. Beware of the Apotasy. It is written that the Christian Church begin to move away from the teachings of the Bible. The Pope is is just a man. He has to follow the same rules eveyone else does. The bible explains HELL in pretty good detail and also gives everyone a map on how to find it.
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