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Ugh! What An Ugly Truther Experience
04-25-2007, 03:19 AM,
#1
Ugh! What An Ugly Truther Experience
At work just now it was me vs. about 10 people, several were engineers. For about a full HOUR after work in the company kitchen they went OFF on how 911 was Bin Laden and how planes took down the towers and how all the conspiracy talk is complete bullshit. Their references were the PBS Nova thing, Popular Mechanics, their own education, stuff like that. They got aggressive and went on and on - "If that's true about building 7, then what does that have to do with the towers?" etc. Pancake this, fire that - just non stop. I don't have the charisma nor power of personality to engage 10 people going all out - info ain't enough. I know all the facts, and even so it was a pretty shitty experience.

I bet that within 2 years from now that it will be commonly accepted knowledge that they were controlled demolitions. They seriously wanted to put thousands down on that bet (engineers have that money), and then the question of what would constitute "commonly accepted knowledge." They offered things like "a major university would determine they were by controlled demolition." or a congressional hearing would say so, or different ideas, like that CNN would admit it.

That's what put me DIRECTLY INTO A TWILIGHT EPISODE, mocking me that if what I'm saying is true then all the media networks, all the government, all the universities, and everyone else must have been in on it in order to keep it a secret and the info gated in. I just shut up at that point, because, lol, all that's actually true. "They" actually do own and control the media, and have for years. There is really no way to convey that to people if they don't see it themselves. What can I do? Quote Rockefeller? That don't mean shit to anybody. Explain how central banking works and how elite insiders use this power to manage society and build up intelligence agencies which in turn pull off stunts like 911 for their masters' agendas, etc? WTF? This truly is like in that first matrix movie, man. Imagine plugging into the matrix and trying to tell people "Dude, you're really a battery and machines rule the earth. They've plugged your brain into a computer and that makes up this world we experience around us." Lol, no freakin' way. That's EXACTLY what this is like when you engage groups of regular people, and why this gets pretty fuckin' lonely. People are entirely, absolutely inoculated from seeing the big picture.
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04-25-2007, 03:34 AM, (This post was last modified: 04-25-2007, 03:38 AM by Hei Hu Quan.)
#2
Ugh! What An Ugly Truther Experience
Save the BTU's for the open-minded and sincere, don't cast pearls before swine as the saying goes. Life is stressful enough and they'll get a huge personal swig of 'Holy Shit He Was Right!" in the near future. Think of it as plowing a very dense field with nettles and tamped hard ground, then sowing out seeds. They'll remember the discussion you've had with them when they are confronted by maybe, 10 Truthers in turn. Or maybe that hot little bird at the bar he fancies that's caught his eye, who says how she believes 9/11 is an inside job. He wants so bad to impress her that he says "Oh hell yeah baby", and uses all the reasoning you've imparted in exactly your words.

It's the ones like you who are the brave to stand and be counted, not the ones who jump the wagon when it's fashionable, in the safety of the space your actions have provided for them long ago.
"We Will Fight and Fight from This Generation to the Next" - Vietnamese People's Fighting Slogan
Freedom Undefended is Freedom Unearned!

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04-25-2007, 03:38 AM,
#3
Ugh! What An Ugly Truther Experience
I feel you man, I'm in the same situation. The people I live w/ will fight tooth and nail to defend mainstream media views. I just stopped talking with them about it.
NM 156
by Queensrÿche

Uniform printout reads end of line,Protect code intact leaves little time
Erratic surveys, free thinking not allowed,My hands shake, my push buttons silence
The outside crowd

One world government has outlawed war among nations,Now social control requires population termination

Have we come too far,To turn around,Does emotion hold the key
Is logic just a synonym for,This savagery, disguised in
Forgotten lost memory

Microchip logic,have we no more thought
&Is this wrong& I enter,Answers sought
Punch, punch, punch, transfer this data
Into code. Wide eyes watch my Number 156 is shown
Created from past life to perform,Illicit function, I fail this conscious
Madness I man/machine imperfection
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04-25-2007, 04:10 AM,
#4
Ugh! What An Ugly Truther Experience
It's tough, I know.

Perhaps when they were saying it was bin-laden etc, and if if it were controlled demolitions, all the media would be all over it etc, I guess the only thing you can ask them is is: if PM, PBS, and all the corporate news believe in the official story why the would they investigate any of the real claims 911 truthers? PM kind of addressed the issues but it was pretty weak.

Even if you gave these people terrorstorm or something like that it probably wouldn't help. Their minds are made up. Well good for them, I hope they like getting the police state they deserve, and deserve it they do. For if they are unwilling to examine what may appear to them to be unlikely and try to search for truth then they are already slaves. In fact they are about as useful as pro wrestling fans. It just sucks that we have to be casualties of their stupidity. I guess no matter what, we are always beholden to the mass stupidity of the ignorant masses and their handlers, kind of like a mob rule democracy of the worst kind because people aren't voting for leaders on this point they are voting for themselves and how they can 'fit in' to all the BS whilst making their cage feel comfortable.

Again I feel for ya Henry. The only advice I can offer is of a strategic nature. Not all of us are Alex Jones type double A personalities. If you were like an AJ you probably would have been able to hold your own and then some, but it likely would have accomplished little if anything just due to the nature of head to head confrontation situations and the fact that it was the group against you. In that situation I am guessing that those people were in more of a pack mentality than anything else. Perhaps in the future, identify who is likely to be more sympathetic to your views, if only marginally, and have one on ones with them just dropping nuggets here and there that may cause interest. If they don not respond well try changing it up a little. If it still doesn't work, screw them, move on. We don't have to awaken everyone around us and it would be an impossible job to do so. Why not just be efficient and help those who may have some interest. Once equipped with the tools they can move on and perhaps wake some more people up.

I know some may not like this point of view, but we almost have to view ourselves as salesmen of the truth. And I can bet you the average person is more suspicious of us than they are of a used car salesman. Since most people aren't rational and need to be sold on feelings rather than facts it makes it hard for truthers because we rely on honest factual information. The average slave is only worried about what is in it for them. This is the hard part because freedom is what we're selling but no one wants to take on the responsibility for self (self education, self discipline, self sacrifice) and for others that goes along with it, because ultimately freedom means operating without a net.

We need to recognize our own strengths and weaknesses so that we utilize them to our advantage in this fight.


MMM
Give me the judgment of balanced minds in preference to laws every time. Codes and manuals create patterned behavior. All patterned behavior tends to go unquestioned, gathering destructive momentum.
- Darwi Odrade
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04-25-2007, 04:11 AM,
#5
Ugh! What An Ugly Truther Experience
Get them to explain how burning jet fuel and office furniture produce molten steel. Or how damage at the top causes structural failure at the bottom. The collapse would have taken over a minute according to the "Nova" tv program... :laugh:
Wyrd bi∂ ful aræd : Vituð ér enn eða hvat?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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04-25-2007, 04:13 AM,
#6
Ugh! What An Ugly Truther Experience
Ask one of them stupid engineer agents for the mathematic formula that says floor impacting floor comes
down as fast as a freefall.

End of story.
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04-25-2007, 04:30 AM,
#7
Ugh! What An Ugly Truther Experience
Quote:Ask one of them stupid engineer agents for the mathematic formula that says floor impacting floor comes
down as fast as a freefall.

End of story.

Word.

Everyone who promotes the official story and acts like that is kind of in on it in a way. They make it all possible.
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04-25-2007, 04:39 AM,
#8
Ugh! What An Ugly Truther Experience
The problem is not the information that you were giving them, but that their own egos got in the way of whatever truth you were trying to convey. So, study people, and learn what makes them interested, and then lead them in a non-adversarial discussion. At the point where the discussion become adversarial (you can tell, because they start getting emotional), just stop talking and let them vent their emotions.
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04-25-2007, 05:10 AM,
#9
Ugh! What An Ugly Truther Experience
I hear ya Henry.

We need a grassroots experiment with hundreds of subjects of varying backgrounds and education with the objective of waking them up to accepting and confronting the NWO 9/11 enslavement agenda; evaluating the collective embodiment of the 9/11 truth movements print, and audio-video works already abundant on the internet. A committee to evaluate & compare all the various psychological mediums of persuasion available such as live in person speeches & presentations, print books/magazines/articles/newspapers, television, radio talk shows, google-youtube audio/ video content, dvds, word of mouth, visual activist demonstrations, etc.. We need to perform "shock tests" and evaluate the best methods to awake the public using specifically engineered linear approaches. Test & evaluate everything--tone of voice, vocabulary, body language, phrases and terminology, all the fundamentals of presentation.

I think the dozens of documentaries all do a wonderful job of laying out the facts IF you have an open mind to logically process what you see and an open ear to hear the truth. The people that are watching the video out of some external influence other than their own carnal interest are less likely to accept it as the truth; convincing ones self they are being influenced or brainwashed through the clever guise of voiceovers and dramatic music. In order to really make a difference and deprogram someone they must have an interest on some level and be willing to confront the possibility that they are brainwashed head on. The objective of us “truthers” is to instill an interest for them to do their own home work, in their own time—hopefully before its too late.. The average activist, “presenter of the truth”, only has 10-30 seconds of their subjects assured attention to complete their objective of seed planting. These poor sheeple don't respond to one conspiracy right in front their face like 9/11. They sure the fuck don't respond if you tell them the whole big picture from Lincoln to the federal reserve to jfk, ww1,ww2, and so on. You have to chip away over time, yet we only get that one session with them. Think about how you personally woke up and how long it took you to accept and process the facts. The only way to deprogram these people is through repeated exposure to the topic of the 9/11 official account being illogical and full of 'omissions and deceptions' from a variety of independent sources so that they can confront it openly without fear of being labeled as a conspiracy theorist as it appears to be common knowledge. If all the possible subtle and in your face approaches and ideas for persuasion were assembled together and put to the test we would be able to evaluate the results for the best possible statistical chance of awakening these people.

The new TruthAction.org 11th of every month street action movement for example. This premise would actually have a chance if over time everyone would participate and the activist #s steadily grew. If people who know the truth weren’t so fricking lazy that they choose to spend a Saturday afternoon watching TV instead of going out on the streets protesting that very instrument of deception. If only they thought it wasn’t a pointless waist of time. All I know is if you saw protesters every day on the 11th of September in your town while heading to work or coming home, I think that would have an impact if every city participated nationwide. If people saw that there was a real 9/11 truth campaign out there that they weren't seeing on the media, that would be the proof they need. When the movement gets big enough and organized so that we cannot be ignored, and yet still is ignored; that is the time when the people will start to look at 9/11 again. I have been on the streets for some time handing out materials, doing the ground zero thing, but it all seems hopeless because no one cares in the end. They stop short at “what can I do about it?” They don't see through 9/11 to the underlying implications of the war on terror and our wireless hand cuffs coming soon courtesy of the real id act. They won't put the dots together.

It has taken the NWO years to understand how our minds really work through the countless military and "paranormal" mind control projects over the decades. 5yrs after 9/11, makes me wonder why the truth movement isn't more organized and advanced than it is today, when there is more and more evidence on a quarterly basis. Why aren't there people on the streets? Do you believe 83% of American's question the 9/11 commission report and 1/3 of them think it was an inside job? I don't. Maybe words like “inside job” and “9/11 truth” are working against us. Maybe we need a completely different approach. Shock therapy anyone?
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04-25-2007, 05:12 AM,
#10
Ugh! What An Ugly Truther Experience
Face to face sometimes is too difficult because people think your trying to showoff or whatever, and they start getting defensive. Some of the conspiracy related info takes years to understand, so trying to explain it in 10 minutes is like putting together a 1000 piece puzzle in 10 minutes -- it's just not going to happen, especially if the people are not receptive. It takes time and patience which most people don't have anymore.

I try to drop truth in anonymous ways -- there are many ways to wake people up. Some people wake up to information because an anonymous post is faceless and nameless. It is a psychological thing.

Check post 61.

http://chronicle.com/wiredcampus/article/2...ia-tech#c001841

Feel free to post as well. :biggrin: Looked for other forums to post to but it seems VT has very few forums. Just keep plugging away and plant seeds where you can.

I actually woke up from a newsgroup posting where someone mentioned the Bilderberg group and Skull & Bones. I went and checked out the info and found it to be true.
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04-25-2007, 05:20 AM,
#11
Ugh! What An Ugly Truther Experience
I learned years ago to choose my battles wisely. You need to get a few of them individually to talk things out. You allowed them to assume a group mentality. Some people you just should not even try with and after a while you'll be able to tell who they are.

I work for a cival/structural engineer. I have for 5 years. I gave up a long time ago on him. He's brainwashed, bleached, pressed, and put away. Now I spend my time talking to people who want to know the truth.

You've got to chisel away at the ingrained lies for a while, some take longer than others. Some are a lost cause.

As the bible says there will be those who are "willingly ignorant". I love that statement because it really describes most people. They love the matrix and don't want to take the blue pill. They are more than willing to believe a known lie if it helps them sleep at night.
&We didn't have education. We had inspiration. If I was educated, I'd be a damn fool.&
-Bob Marley

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04-25-2007, 05:20 AM,
#12
Ugh! What An Ugly Truther Experience
Give em copies of 9/11 Mysteries and make them your bitches
luceo no uro
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04-25-2007, 05:30 AM,
#13
Ugh! What An Ugly Truther Experience
Thanks. Your comments really balanced my shit out.

Quote:Ask one of them stupid engineer agents for the mathematic formula that says floor impacting floor comes
down as fast as a freefall.

End of story.
That was a major point of mine, to which the engineer replied, "How do you know? You'd have to know when the top floor finally reached the ground...stopwatches, measurements, etc." You know...shit, lol. When the glasses are purple, one only sees purple. People haven't even seen vids of the buildings since Sept. of 01.

Quote:Get them to explain how burning jet fuel and office furniture produce molten steel. Or how damage at the top causes structural failure at the bottom. The collapse would have taken over a minute according to the "Nova" tv program... :laugh:
Yeah. Either they didn't believe my molten metal "story," or tried explaining it with physics magic. I learned a lot from this. I think it's not a matter of conveying or arguing facts at all, but it's trying to sell an entire worldview (Weltanschauungskrieg I guess they call it - worldview warfare), and there must be better ways of spreading a worldview than arguing facts of a specific incident like 911. It's not like trying to convey whether or not 1+1=2 (which is hard enough), but is like trying to convey that math is a scam. I don't think anymore that facts matter, if the worldview ain't right.


Quote:It's tough, I know.

Even if you gave these people terrorstorm or something like that it probably wouldn't help. Their minds are made up. Well good for them, I hope they like getting the police state they deserve, and deserve it they do. It just sucks that we have to be casualties of their stupidity.

Again I feel for ya Henry. The only advice I can offer is of a strategic nature. Not all of us are Alex Jones type double A personalities. If you were like an AJ you probably would have been able to hold your own and then some, but it likely would have accomplished little if anything just due to the nature of head to head confrontation situations and the fact that it was the group against you. In that situation I am guessing that those people were in more of a pack mentality than anything else.

This is the hard part because freedom is what we're selling but no one wants to take on the responsibility for self (self education, self discipline, self sacrifice) and for others that goes along with it, because ultimately freedom means operating without a net.
Two of them were definitely AJ types, except for the status quo. Maybe collectively we do deserve what we're going to get, or getting right now rather. They're sure as hell going to take us all down, especially the motivated well-intentioned ones.


Quote:I feel you man, I'm in the same situation. The people I live w/ will fight tooth and nail to defend mainstream media views. I just stopped talking with them about it.
Yeah, many are straight-up statists, without knowing it. No more talking about it at work - I need and like the job. This is San Francisco, where people are supposedly free and free thinkers. People are no more informed here than back home in West Virginia.


Quote:They'll get a huge personal swig of 'Holy Shit He Was Right!" in the near future. Think of it as plowing a very dense field with nettles and tamped hard ground, then sowing out seeds.

Thanks. Everyone's gonna get some reality juice one way or another.
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04-25-2007, 07:22 AM,
#14
Ugh! What An Ugly Truther Experience
Quote:I hear ya Henry.

We need a grassroots experiment with hundreds of subjects of varying backgrounds and education with the objective of waking them up to accepting and confronting the NWO 9/11 enslavement agenda; evaluating the collective embodiment of the 9/11 truth movements print, and audio-video works already abundant on the internet. A committee to evaluate & compare all the various psychological mediums of persuasion available such as live in person speeches & presentations, print books/magazines/articles/newspapers, television, radio talk shows, google-youtube audio/ video content, dvds, word of mouth, visual activist demonstrations, etc.. We need to perform "shock tests" and evaluate the best methods to awake the public using specifically engineered linear approaches. Test & evaluate everything--tone of voice, vocabulary, body language, phrases and terminology, all the fundamentals of presentation.

I think the dozens of documentaries all do a wonderful job of laying out the facts IF you have an open mind to logically process what you see and an open ear to hear the truth. The people that are watching the video out of some external influence other than their own carnal interest are less likely to accept it as the truth; convincing ones self they are being influenced or brainwashed through the clever guise of voiceovers and dramatic music. In order to really make a difference and deprogram someone they must have an interest on some level and be willing to confront the possibility that they are brainwashed head on. The objective of us “truthers” is to instill an interest for them to do their own home work, in their own time—hopefully before its too late.. The average activist, “presenter of the truth”, only has 10-30 seconds of their subjects assured attention to complete their objective of seed planting. These poor sheeple don't respond to one conspiracy right in front their face like 9/11. They sure the fuck don't respond if you tell them the whole big picture from Lincoln to the federal reserve to jfk, ww1,ww2, and so on. You have to chip away over time, yet we only get that one session with them. Think about how you personally woke up and how long it took you to accept and process the facts. The only way to deprogram these people is through repeated exposure to the topic of the 9/11 official account being illogical and full of 'omissions and deceptions' from a variety of independent sources so that they can confront it openly without fear of being labeled as a conspiracy theorist as it appears to be common knowledge. If all the possible subtle and in your face approaches and ideas for persuasion were assembled together and put to the test we would be able to evaluate the results for the best possible statistical chance of awakening these people.

The new TruthAction.org 11th of every month street action movement for example. This premise would actually have a chance if over time everyone would participate and the activist #s steadily grew. If people who know the truth weren’t so fricking lazy that they choose to spend a Saturday afternoon watching TV instead of going out on the streets protesting that very instrument of deception. If only they thought it wasn’t a pointless waist of time. All I know is if you saw protesters every day on the 11th of September in your town while heading to work or coming home, I think that would have an impact if every city participated nationwide. If people saw that there was a real 9/11 truth campaign out there that they weren't seeing on the media, that would be the proof they need. When the movement gets big enough and organized so that we cannot be ignored, and yet still is ignored; that is the time when the people will start to look at 9/11 again. I have been on the streets for some time handing out materials, doing the ground zero thing, but it all seems hopeless because no one cares in the end. They stop short at “what can I do about it?” They don't see through 9/11 to the underlying implications of the war on terror and our wireless hand cuffs coming soon courtesy of the real id act. They won't put the dots together.

It has taken the NWO years to understand how our minds really work through the countless military and "paranormal" mind control projects over the decades. 5yrs after 9/11, makes me wonder why the truth movement isn't more organized and advanced than it is today, when there is more and more evidence on a quarterly basis. Why aren't there people on the streets? Do you believe 83% of American's question the 9/11 commission report and 1/3 of them think it was an inside job? I don't. Maybe words like “inside job” and “9/11 truth” are working against us. Maybe we need a completely different approach. Shock therapy anyone?

Definitely agreed that there's a strong need for focus group type work in order to develop tightly honed and effective techniques. I would only say that this work has already been done like you say - Bernays was unleashing highly engineered media viruses while our grandparents were still in diapers for example. The info and techniques on pursuasion are available - we just got to get serious about utilizing them. They've had generations of working 24/7 and with unlimited financial resources in order to determine how best to pursuade the public and keep us manageable (they fuckin' INVENTED tv), and they target all our demographics separately. I'm just in awe at how deep and pervasive this psy-op has gone into people.

I think sometimes, maybe wrongly, that if just the right meme could be crafted or a certain stance be taken that it would overcome all obstacles and wake people the fuck up. I totally agree that I don't think 1/3 think it was an inside job. At least here I put it MAYBE at 4%, and most of those people who do know aren't freaked out enough to learn more, much less talk about it. I just want to live free and have children sometime soon. Aside from online here I don't personally know anyone who cares, who gives a shit. As it stands now, the next event will definitely work and lead us wherever they want us to go.
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04-25-2007, 07:55 AM,
#15
Ugh! What An Ugly Truther Experience
Although, I believe most people do learn through prophecy and revelation; it makes you wonder if we'll even have a chance for a "i told you so" after the next big "event" in the USA. If we had people out there actually predicting these specific events (911, 711, VA shooting, patriot, real id act, vaccines, gun legislation) before they happened, that would prove as evidence of an agendas advancement. But people are denied these theories by the mainstream media and when discussed are only brushed on by movies or books which are later easily dismissed as Conspiracy Theories when interpreted within the "box". I think this decade truly is the last opportunity for enlightenment. The best we can do now is bring attention to the issues we can backup that MUST be focused and exposed in BIG ways. There are so many ways to make the pursuit of truth a contagious movement if we get organized, remain motivated, and get creative. Using technology against them is the answer. This forum and all the functionality the benefits that mass communication of the internet offers. People have said it time and time again, but we really are missing the obvious here; the tool is right in front of our face. One has to imagine if they are waiting for this truth movement to catch on and what will happen when it does. Pull the plug on the internet? Martial Law? With Threat of nuclear war, chip implants, mind control, chemtrail & food poisoning, the worthless dollar. There are so many ways were fucked it's always a lingering question whether the system is worth fighting. But for those of us who are truly awake I don't think it's a choice. I know its no longer a choice for me. If I wouldn't consider myself a hypocrite by remaining silent, I sure would. If I didn't love my family, friends, and fellow man
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