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Jesus Is Biggest Hoax Ever.
06-16-2007, 08:57 PM,
#76
Jesus Is Biggest Hoax Ever.
Quote:Anyways, what I said can be proven, you are the one hanging onto a belief.

So they say, again and again. Must be the Zeitgeist.

I do not believe that to be THE WORD; as THE WORD warns about that and is so remarkable how everything is covered.

Watch vids by: Michael Heiser, Ph.D. He has the answers to debunk the Jesus Is Biggest Hoax Ever thread, that for some perverse reason keeps rearing its ugly head.

* * *

Standvast: What would you suggest a 'spiritual' person in this world do? Limit others religious freedoms?
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06-16-2007, 09:16 PM,
#77
Jesus Is Biggest Hoax Ever.
Quote:Standvast: What would you suggest a 'spiritual' person in this world do? Limit others religious freedoms?

No, not at all,
I wouldn't know how to limit another persons mental concepts, constructs, convictions,
unless i had access to mass persuasion techniques, and a will to control other people.
Let me counter with a question ; Do you think living rightious [in your idea of it] in
accordance to how you believe, a Christian in preperation for the next world , makes one also act
responsible and in harmony with this world/reality, or are these modes mutually exclusive to you?
I suggest a "spiritual " person in this world/percieved reality or any other
works for the advancement of all humanity or life as a whole through his/her true self.
I do not mean self in any egotistical, egomaniacle manner, but as the source of life in all.

peace'
If Thine I that I spy with my own little I Doeth Offend thee ; Pluck It out.

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06-16-2007, 09:33 PM,
#78
Jesus Is Biggest Hoax Ever.
I believe that no man is without sin. From there, it is not if you sin, but during a lifetime how you come to view the things that tempted your sinful nature. If you are truly repentant that is what is important. That does not mean you won't sin again, it means that you are aware that it is something you really don't want to be engulfed by and that is where prayer comes in. As long as a man walks this planet, he will be tempted, sin, repent, be forgiven, be saved. That is the promise THE SAVIOR made.

I think the Catholic Church failed miserably in the fast-food drive through style confession and absolution biz.

I believe all that is required to enter the Kingdom is to have a conscience. If you have a conscience you will do well by others as you will have empathy and compassion. With those qualities you will naturally seek to help life and not harm life. There will be something internal that simply won't let you do certain things, you simply cannot do them. You would rather die yourself than do them.

But not everybody will be on that path, that is also a truth.
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06-16-2007, 09:45 PM,
#79
Jesus Is Biggest Hoax Ever.
Quote:I believe all that is required to enter the Kingdom is to have a conscience. If you have a conscience you will do well by others as you will have empathy and compassion. With those qualities you will naturally seek to help life and not harm life. There will be something internal that simply won't let you do certain things, you simply cannot do them. You would rather die yourself than do them.

Thanks alot for your response, this reply makes up for a lot of the times i can't follow you :biggrin: j/k
no seriously;i like the way you put it and i hope you do not mind that i'll take it as an affirmation
of my question; Living consciously, with empathy, towards truth in this life, conincides well with
preparing for the next worldfe/transcendence.

On a sidenote, do you find my approach in disrespect or limiting of anothers beliefs ?
or do you think i believe certain forms of religion should be abandoned?
as you asked "Standvast: What would you suggest a 'spiritual' person in this world do? Limit others religious freedoms? "

Quote:But not everybody will be on that path, that is also a truth.

agreed.

peace'
If Thine I that I spy with my own little I Doeth Offend thee ; Pluck It out.

Reply
06-17-2007, 12:08 AM,
#80
Jesus Is Biggest Hoax Ever.
:biggrin:

Quote:On a sidenote, do you find my approach in disrespect or limiting of anothers beliefs ?
or do you think i believe certain forms of religion should be abandoned?
as you asked "Standvast: What would you suggest a 'spiritual' person in this world do? Limit others religious freedoms? "

Nah, Standvast...I think a lot of times you get the brunt of my reactions to DSB, lol.

Peace.
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06-17-2007, 09:57 AM, (This post was last modified: 06-17-2007, 10:01 AM by standvast.)
#81
Jesus Is Biggest Hoax Ever.
Quote:Is anyone denying Jesus existed ?

Yeah if not here, there are plenty.
I'm agnostic about it, as i simply can't say for sure,
but then again i don't place much importance on the person.
Comparitive study does point at an unmistakable basis of evidence for
the key characteristics of "jesus" being older and borrowed from elsewhere.
Does this deface the image of "Jesus"> ? no i don't think so,
if you believe in Jesus, you believe in his message , and view
him whether a flesh and blood person or a metaphorical construct,
as the medium to deliver a message from the source "God"/father.
..it's not about the messenger according to his own teachings.
"Jesus" never asked to be prayed to as far as i know from my personal interpretation,
it was the latter "Holy" Roman church that used his image as a tool,
and taught people to revere the image, instead of the body of thought / spirit.

Quote:The hoax thing is funny
and I have already spoken to hbnwok about this before
what exactly is the hoax ? when such a person really did walk the earth

I have yet to see the proof of 1 actual person being Jesus having existed,
but i can live fine with the idea of great teachers appearing in all ages,
embodying spirit and dedicating their worldly life to showing others there is
an underlying principle to creation , which we are connected and responsible to.

Quote:I think this thread was a silly outburst to be honest
times like this I would have expected a Chessmuscle to come along
and a standvast to engage in deep conversation..

I think the thread was an attempt to trigger debate, i enjoyed Rawgoatsmilk's
idea on bacteria being our forefather and quite pervasive enough to be considered
"life surrounding us all" [even in "space"?] so i think the thread did live up to some of it's intended purpose :wink:
Madz you know i enjoyed the talks with Chess as much as he or you did, perhaps i'll
see if i can't send him an email , and request him to drop in sometime,
but in the meantime.. let others step up where we left off, discussing either
personal beliefs or interpretations of whatever subject can aid us all,; a broader perspective.

Quote:damn I really miss the old forum man!

I'm passed that, most of what shaped it is still present,
added some great new folks, take away some ,
we need to realise what we have in front of us , :smile:
think of what you loved about the old boards and manifest it here.

peace'
If Thine I that I spy with my own little I Doeth Offend thee ; Pluck It out.

Reply
06-17-2007, 10:50 AM, (This post was last modified: 06-17-2007, 11:09 AM by SerialExpLain.)
#82
Jesus Is Biggest Hoax Ever.
Standvast, Michael Heiser, Ph.D. would be in disagreement with you on your historical perspective.
Are you familiar with his work? If so, could you comment on that.

Also, I believe Ted Pike could shed some light.

In addition, this link is rather substantive:

http://www.redmoonrising.com/Giza/DomDec6.htm

Again, I too miss the old forum. There was a separate section for Bible-Christianity and there were many Bible believing Christians there then.

Perhaps, if Jesus is such a controversial topic, instead of mocking believers, you could expound on your beliefs, as there are obviously so many interesting things on the agenda - what with 6 billion dollar collider projects, and individuals who admit to a past working on star-war projects ushering in paridigm shifts based on the ruination of the magnetic field and Schumann resonance.

Obviously, it is a golden age for New Atlanteans. But there is still time to mock Bible believing Christians, interesting priorities.
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06-17-2007, 11:02 AM,
#83
Jesus Is Biggest Hoax Ever.
Quote:Again, I too miss the old forum. There was a separate section for Bible-Christianity apart from Gnostic-Agnostic, etc.

Why is that so important love?
If you want to keep a thread / discussion based in what you percieve as Biblical
Christian perspective, you could just make one with an opening post stating the intended purpose.
i promise i won't bother you with my eclectic comparitive sidesteps and will even see to it
that others respect your wishes, to disect/approach from the angle you choose, and not
to get off topic , or just drop in to say "Jesus is the sun",.. how's that?

I think to seperate the two in ones own mind is fine, but as discussion topics on
a conspiracy board , best believe to most they seem to overlap oneanother.
Quote:Standvast, Michael Heiser, Ph.D. would be in disagreement with you on you're dates a bit.

Are you familiar with his work. If so, could you comment on that.

I'm not aware of determining dates, i don't even have a single envisioned version of events,
I'm not familiar with Heiser beyond having heard of him, but since you've named him thrice now,
i feel somewhat obliged to check him out,. will comment in due time.

At your referal i watched 2 Ted Pike vids, i gave you my take on one about Judaism/Israel before.
I suppose i don't have to explain how his perspective seems a bit skewed in my perception.

peace'
If Thine I that I spy with my own little I Doeth Offend thee ; Pluck It out.

Reply
06-17-2007, 11:19 AM, (This post was last modified: 06-17-2007, 11:20 AM by SerialExpLain.)
#84
Jesus Is Biggest Hoax Ever.
Quote:Why is that so important love?

Because, there are times when one does not want to swim against such a strong tide. :wink:


Quote:If you want to keep a thread / discussion based in what you percieve as Biblical
Christian perspective, you could just make one with an opening post stating the intended purpose.
i promise i won't bother you with my eclectic comparitive sidesteps and will even see to it
that others respect your wishes, to disect/approach from the angle you choose, and not
to get off topic , or just drop in to say "Jesus is the sun",.. how's that?

Yeay! Very happy Standvast, thanks.

Quote:I think to seperate the two in ones own mind is fine, but as discussion topics on
a conspiracy board , best believe to most they seem to overlap oneanother

That is something after all this time, noone has reached a consensus on though, maybe someday.
Reply
06-17-2007, 05:04 PM,
#85
Jesus Is Biggest Hoax Ever.
Quote:Thy prophecy has been fullfilled Oh manchild of the lifeless branch!
rejoice , verily i say unto you ; "things never truly die "

:biggrin:

Quote:And on that note;
"inspired " by some remarks of Dhammer i started wondering
whether love for this Life and this world [whether seen as a set reality or not]
and working towards "the afterlife in heaven" as any good Christian should do,
contradict or perhaps even mutually exclude oneanother.

I figured this is not the case, as i believe working with life, creating,
protecting the intrinsic value of it and striving to harmonize life, by not ignorantly
intervening in matters that should be left to Universal law /Nature/God [take your pick],
transcends any one reality or realm and would thus be both ; good to this world and responsible to the next.
In the example Dhammer gave where he equates love for this world with debauchery and
self-indulgence, i can understand how that would go against the virtuous path leading to the next life,
but i think that to equate a profound [Agape] love for all life [in THIS WORLD/reality / universe]
to the lowest possible behavioral traits witnessed in man is uninsightfull.
Why would a man be judged by his works in this world if they where in vain ?
Was not every saint, holy man , or messiah revered for the works done in this world,
even if that work was to teach people of the preparations for the next world , ?

anyone want to give their take on this , i'd love some perspective..

peace'
I think you've got the right idea. The reason for this apparent dichotomy in Dhammer's reasoning, and that of other christians, boils down to the christian obsession with the concept of "sin", IMO.
Afterall, any desire that isn't "in service to God" (whatever that is) seems to constitute a sin. You don't even actually have to do it, just thinking about it still counts as a sin, they are eager to tell you.
This mentality, combined with a few other cherry picked verses (love not the world, ect) leaves christians with that pervasive and necrotic view of the world as a spiritually dead savage jungle of debauchery and sin, which has been such a destructive force in western culture for over 1000 years.
This is not the case for all christians, by any means, and I would say that that it a view heavily promoted by the church, especially the Catholic Church. Guilt and fear based mind control is the product.
The fundamental attitude that nature is spiritually dead also formed the basis for the fundamentalist materialist doctrine of "modern science".
To quote a bible verse in contrast "Ye shall know them by their fruits".
:wink:


Quote:
Quote:Anyways, what I said can be proven, you are the one hanging onto a belief.

So they say, again and again. Must be the Zeitgeist.

I do not believe that to be THE WORD; as THE WORD warns about that and is so remarkable how everything is covered.

Watch vids by: Michael Heiser, Ph.D. He has the answers to debunk the Jesus Is Biggest Hoax Ever thread, that for some perverse reason keeps rearing its ugly head.

I thought faith was the basis of Christianity? Why do you have to prove it? What makes you think you can?
Also, isn't it somewhat of an insult to christ's message to claim you have a monopoly on the correct interpretation? You say THE WORD, as if it is written in stone and there is only one interpretation of it. You insist that the bible must be infact a literal and historical story, when it doesn't have to be in order to remain worthwhile as a religious or spiritual text.

The real issue, is your insistence that you, and the church, have correctly interpreted the bible.

All religions "cover every angle" so christianity is hardly amazing in that right, and even that still comes down to interpretation. Because you can interpret certain passages to mean certain things, even though they may not actually mean what you claim, you thusly assert that your ideas are proven based on scripture.

Can you not see the inherent flaw in this logic?

The difference between us is simply that I can accept the possibility that what you believe could be true, but you refuse to extend the same courtesy and skepticism to my beliefs. You also seem to refuse to even acknowledge that your beliefs are just that, beliefs.

Quote:Nah, Standvast...I think a lot of times you get the brunt of my reactions to DSB, lol.

Peace.

Perhaps in the future you could maybe try to meet me halfway with understanding, rather than reacting in an adversarial way to whatever it is you think I said. :content:

Its a common problem in human communication, this reactive response attitude.....
Wyrd bi∂ ful aræd : Vituð ér enn eða hvat?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[Image: madwolfoy0.jpg][Image: sharksmall1kd6.jpg][Image: bearkodiakchugachfe7.jpg]
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06-17-2007, 07:40 PM,
#86
Jesus Is Biggest Hoax Ever.
DSB...a question, did you like the movie Zeitgeist? Bet you loved it. DSB, that is exactly what I was talking to Standvast and Madizims about.

I believe that the Bible is the truth as to what is occuring on the planet, yes. Its not MY BIBLE, by the way.

If your beliefs differ from that, start a thread based on your beliefs, mocking other peoples beliefs only serves to embolden their beliefs.

Obviously, you feel strongly about your beliefs DSB. That is fine. They are rather diametrically opposed to
my own, after being on many threads with you, I can definitely say that.
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06-18-2007, 08:49 PM,
#87
Jesus Is Biggest Hoax Ever.
Jesus is the name given by the romans,may have come from isis horus type. jesus is the atrological stuff, but there was a guy name emanuel benjoseph who did travel the silk roads to india to study witht he guru and gained enlightenment. there is a book called jesus in india. pretty kool.they found statures of him in buddist lotus positions, krishna is also a sungod who died on the cross.but for more crazy proof jesus was a mushroom watch The Pharmacratic Inquisition on google video
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06-18-2007, 11:29 PM, (This post was last modified: 06-18-2007, 11:30 PM by SerialExpLain.)
#88
Jesus Is Biggest Hoax Ever.
@tigno323...and Lucifer is a spiteful bitch...

This is what YOU are looking for, just for you....

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=54...h&plindex=4
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06-19-2007, 10:03 PM,
#89
Jesus Is Biggest Hoax Ever.
Quote:Don't you understand there is a greater and more mysterious universe beyond what we stupid-ass humans define as such? There is nothing but energy and consciousness manifesting itself in an infinite void. There is a holographic nature to the universe where all things are just units of the other, operating independently of one another yet intrinsically connected to the entirety of existence. The universe is one evolving organism, just as we are, and each cell in our bodies is, and each atom in it is, and each quark in each atom is, and so on for infinity. It is one continual illusion allowing the universe to manifest itself and evolve. No matter what arbitrary properties we apply to our understanding of these things, it doesn't change the integral nature of them. And that's why religion is wrong. It assumes that the universe applies uniquely and directly to humans.

The universe itself is one deception, the matrix, which only exists through polarity
which it fuelled by deceives its prisoners
Jesus is one of the many figures who teach how to escape this reincarnating/recursive illusion which only ends
if all prisoners, who fuel this place, escape.

however the Jesus figure could also be a template for other ancient events, nevertheless the message surveyed
that is what is important

the collective of the prisoners 'selfs' are reminded again that they are part of the one.
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06-20-2007, 02:30 AM, (This post was last modified: 06-20-2007, 02:34 AM by triplesix.)
#90
Jesus Is Biggest Hoax Ever.
Quote:
Quote:Don't you understand there is a greater and more mysterious universe beyond what we stupid-ass humans define as such? There is nothing but energy and consciousness manifesting itself in an infinite void. There is a holographic nature to the universe where all things are just units of the other, operating independently of one another yet intrinsically connected to the entirety of existence. The universe is one evolving organism, just as we are, and each cell in our bodies is, and each atom in it is, and each quark in each atom is, and so on for infinity. It is one continual illusion allowing the universe to manifest itself and evolve. No matter what arbitrary properties we apply to our understanding of these things, it doesn't change the integral nature of them. And that's why religion is wrong. It assumes that the universe applies uniquely and directly to humans.

The universe itself is one deception, the matrix, which only exists through polarity
which it fuelled by deceives its prisoners
Jesus is one of the many figures who teach how to escape this reincarnating/recursive illusion which only
ends
if all prisoners, who fuel this place, escape.

however the Jesus figure could also be a template for other ancient events, nevertheless the message surveyed
that is what is important

the collective of the prisoners 'selfs' are reminded again that they are part of the one.

I find it interesting the words with which you choose to define the universe. First, you agree with me, in that the universe itself is one large deception which exists through polarity. I chose the words resonance, but it is the electrodynamic property of electromagnetic waves that there exist a polarity, at least in the case of transverse, as opposed to longitudinal waves. However, you then add that this universe is fuelled by the deception of its prisoners.

It seems that from your spiritual perspective, and I think it represents the attitude of many Christians, is that the universe is somehow pointless and evil and life is all about waiting until the next one. You refer to Jesus as being "one of the many figures who teach how to escape" what you call the "reincarnating/recursive illusion." You also imply that the only way this universe will end is if everyone can escape their imprisonment. This attitude is opposed to my view of the universe and it is where I would have to disagree with you. I do not believe there is a universe beyond this one called heaven and I do not believe that through any of our actions may we be rewarded after death. I think this is all we've got and the attitudes of religion that trivialize our lives by encouraging the belief in a mystical afterlife are doing a lot of harm.

Lastly, you end your post by saying "the collective of prisoner's 'selfs' are reminded again they are part of the one." The Old Testament had the occaisonal reference to something like this. Zechariah 14:9 says "God will be King over all the World -- on that day, God will be One and his word will be One." This biblical interpretation of oneness is different from the "new age" quantum mechanical concept of oneness and I think a little reflection will show that clearly enough. For that reason, I think our ideas are more divergent still. When viewed from the Christian perspective, the idea of biblical oneness is dissolved altogether. After all, there is no oneness, but rather a trinity of one. The Jewish idea of Shema, as expressed in Deuteronomy 6:4 states "Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One." is an emphatic expression of their monotheistic dogma. The Catholic definition of trinity tears down the monotheistic quality of the religion, but still limiting the pantheon to three expressions of the same One.

I cannot get behind Jesus, beyond the issues with the trinity, because the tales attributed to him are either blatantly exaggerated, fabricated, or mistranslated. This was largely for the advantage of the church by unscrupulous bishops throughout Middle Age theocracy. St. Gregory, 4th century Bishop of Nanianzus, once said "the less they comprehend, the more they admire" on the subject of altering translations. From mistranslations comes a few of the more ridiculuous attributes of Jesus. Here are two:

Isaiah 7:14: Jesus' mother is referred to by the word "alma" meaning young woman, which has been mistranslated as virgin. Giving the legend of Jesus' virgin birth as opposed to that of a young woman. I think anyone with half a brain knows that Jesus was not the result of immaculate conception, should he ever have existed.
Psalms 22:17: "Like a lion, they are at my hands and feet" is the literal Hebrew translation. Ki-ari, for lion, is altered to the word gouge, changing the passage to refer to his crucifixion. If you refer to my previous post on this subject you can read all about why the crucifixion story holds no weight for me.

Furthermore, Jesus was a mortal expression of God, giving him powers and abilities beyond those of the average human. Numbers 23:19 says directly "God is not a mortal." It is the suspension of disbelief in "miracles" that one accepts the tales associated with Jesus' life on Earth. In addition, the Bible creates an intermediary between God and man through Jesus, thus after lowering God to our humanistic level, the bible seperates Him from us. John 14:6 says "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." This is a DIRECT VIOLATION of the 10 Commandments! In which it clearly states "You shall have no other gods before me." Jesus, while implicitly God, is still explicitly placed between the worshipper and God. This is clearly the method of control inserted by the church for the purposes of controlling their parishioners. It sets the church between the worshipper and his God, especially in the Catholic church, making it impossible by the doctrines of the church to reach salvation without it.

These are some of the many reasons that I believe in an interconnectedness of the universe, independent of any biblical or religious connotation. Catholicism, and to a lesser extent Christianity, is a perversion of former esoteric truths known to early man, manipulated for the purposes of control in an escalating fashion since their origins. I understand the contention associated with that attitude but I haven't seen anything of enough substance to convince me otherwise. I've got until 2012 :biggrin: .
&We grow to recognize form. We grow to label that form. In doing so, do we become more intelligent? Do we become more awakened?& - Siji Tzu 四季子
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