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Jesus Is Biggest Hoax Ever.
06-09-2007, 09:06 AM, (This post was last modified: 06-09-2007, 09:08 AM by bando.)
#46
Jesus Is Biggest Hoax Ever.
Oh well, we'll all know the truth when we die, or when Jesus comes back, with a vengeance!! :cool:

I'd rather believe in him and turning out he's not real, than not believing and turning out he is.
NM 156
by Queensrÿche

Uniform printout reads end of line,Protect code intact leaves little time
Erratic surveys, free thinking not allowed,My hands shake, my push buttons silence
The outside crowd

One world government has outlawed war among nations,Now social control requires population termination

Have we come too far,To turn around,Does emotion hold the key
Is logic just a synonym for,This savagery, disguised in
Forgotten lost memory

Microchip logic,have we no more thought
&Is this wrong& I enter,Answers sought
Punch, punch, punch, transfer this data
Into code. Wide eyes watch my Number 156 is shown
Created from past life to perform,Illicit function, I fail this conscious
Madness I man/machine imperfection
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06-11-2007, 02:26 AM,
#47
Jesus Is Biggest Hoax Ever.
So typical of religious people. Confront them with a real argument and all you get is silence.
&We grow to recognize form. We grow to label that form. In doing so, do we become more intelligent? Do we become more awakened?& - Siji Tzu 四季子
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06-11-2007, 02:36 AM,
#48
Jesus Is Biggest Hoax Ever.
...or laughter :biggrin:

He just might be a HOAX to YOU....but HE LIVES :biggrin:
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06-11-2007, 09:15 AM,
#49
Jesus Is Biggest Hoax Ever.
Now I dont believe he was gods son or lord or any stuff like that

People that kill in his name are hypocrites(Thou shall not kill?)

I believe he was a teacher,what that had alot of things to say about peace and love

- Alex
The first step to revolution is consciousness,
So I wont stop screaming at you until this all make sense.
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06-11-2007, 11:54 AM, (This post was last modified: 06-11-2007, 11:58 AM by triplesix.)
#50
Jesus Is Biggest Hoax Ever.
I don't give fuck all who Jesus was or what he did. I give a fuck about the disinformation about his life and the mythology that retards worship.

We are surrounded by the "Christ Consciousness" or "Krishna Consciousness;" the infinte interconnectedness that makes up the entire universe. The wave-particle structure of energy and the resonating frequencies which define our universe. We are our own gods. Our bodies, and what we call our consciousness, are barriers that seperate us from our subconscious, the all-knowing consciousness, to allow us to experience the totality of existence before we die and we are reassimilated into that sea of all-knowing consciousness. Our subconscious, and by extension, our dreams, are evidence of this all-knowing nature of the universe. We live to expand this universal consciousness and it is through understanding, elaborating and spreading this knowledge that the universe grows and prospers. It is by being an ignorant retard that our universe stagnants and suffers.

I present this argument because it is what I have experienced. No one has written it down for me. It isn't through being told that we learn the meaning of life; it's through asking, extending that vulnerable piece of ourselves to the cosmos. It is through experiencing and questioning that we may learn the true nature of the universe. If you feel pain or pleasure, is it any different from the sensations of a bird, or a dog, or an alien being in another galaxy seperated from us by a distance that is nearly impossible to conceive or describe? Absolutely not. Because all creatures from all walks of life are but machines. Machines jacked up to the Universal Consciousness, extrapolating information from their own unique limitations and senses. The consciousness itself, though, is the same. You cannot, however, argue that those same creatures are waiting to be saved by some mythical God-child by following a set of narrow guidelines applicable only to their own species.

Probably at one time Jesus was spreading this very message. That I can agree with. But no dude from outer space is going to land and rapture anybody. That's just stupid.

I brought up the Passion. Nobody will answer me. Why not? What is the big fucking deal? The deal is nobody can defend that shite. It's a bunch of bullshit and even the people who believe in it know it. It's okay to them because they have faith.

It's fucking ignorant and it pisses me off. You have been led astray by snake oil salesmen. When I'm done being angry, I'll pity you.
&We grow to recognize form. We grow to label that form. In doing so, do we become more intelligent? Do we become more awakened?& - Siji Tzu 四季子
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06-11-2007, 01:05 PM,
#51
Jesus Is Biggest Hoax Ever.
IMHO the biggest hoax ever is God, followed by The Devil and then in 3rd place possibly Jesus.
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06-11-2007, 03:32 PM, (This post was last modified: 06-11-2007, 03:33 PM by SerialExpLain.)
#52
Jesus Is Biggest Hoax Ever.
Quote:I brought up the Passion. Nobody will answer me. Why not?

Ugh...because it has already been stated. Look, believe in whatever YOU want.

Why would anybody else's beliefs anger someone? What sense is there in that?

All you can say is some will agree with you, some will not. Everybody will hold their personal beliefs to be their own personal truths for their own reasons.

Fair?
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06-11-2007, 06:01 PM, (This post was last modified: 06-11-2007, 06:06 PM by maggot.)
#53
Jesus Is Biggest Hoax Ever.
Pope Leo X Wrote:"What profit has not that fable of Christ brought us!" Pope Leo X.
source : http://www.tektonics.org/lp/popeleox.html
However this page seems to be skeptical of the 'skeptics' who supposedly quoted this. Bit strange as a quote like that in those days would have been dealt with pretty severely (ie execution) in those days i expect if untrue or even if true and the powers that be NOT wanting it to be known to the public. I suspect it is a real quote put out to mock the masses.
Personally I don't care if jesus christ is real or fake or a combination of different historical characters or an allegorical character, it doesn't change the validity of his life and teachings. This reminds me:
Today I heard a radio report that manchester (england) cathedral was used as a warehouse for world of warcraft games. Merchandise in a CATHEDRAL, what did jesus do to the temple where they were selling merchandise? Oh but the high reverend isn't very important is he really, he can't read the life and teachings of jesus or anything and wouldn't know this as a blasphemy.:freaked:Of course he was authorised to do the same - taunting the masses ignorance, by people above him.
I'd have to say in summary jesus is the most misrepresented/misused character in history.
*edit* added link i forgot
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06-11-2007, 07:59 PM, (This post was last modified: 06-11-2007, 08:07 PM by SerialExpLain.)
#54
Jesus Is Biggest Hoax Ever.
At this juncture in history, you can find all the information/disinformation, accurate statistics/fabricated statistics, quotes of anything imaginable, accurate historical information/fabricated historical information, and
all the whys and wherefores if you dig deep enough.

It is simply nonsequitor. What stands as obvious is an agenda to simply not allow Christianity which will only strengthen a true Christian.

If you are not a Christian, why such an interest in Christianity anyway?

WHY DOES IT BOTHER YOU SO MUCH?

It doesn't mean that much to them to mean that much to you what you believe, I assure you of that.

Analogy:
Its like I am disgusted, I saw a Satanist help an old woman across the street, how can he say he is a Satanist. (Dude, that is HIS OWN BUSINESS. )

There should be a new religion formed: I Want to BITCH about YOUR Religion Religion. Imagine that, the First Temple of IWTBAYRR.
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06-11-2007, 08:25 PM,
#55
Jesus Is Biggest Hoax Ever.
Who is serialexplain talking to? Why does she insist on labelling everyone?
Why doesn't she reply to this
Quote:Today I heard a radio report that manchester (england) cathedral was used as a warehouse for world of warcraft games.
This has happened as was obviously approved in the CHRISTIAN CHURCH. Doesn't this mean anything to you as a labelling christian? Do I have to remind you of your own professed religion. Why should I bother.

'Do you think christ belongs only to you? You are wrong, he does not - jesus christ belongs to everybody! He was NOT an israelite.' <- film quote used in a meads of asphodel song
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06-11-2007, 08:28 PM, (This post was last modified: 06-11-2007, 08:36 PM by SerialExpLain.)
#56
Jesus Is Biggest Hoax Ever.
Sorry it was right after your thread, so I figured you would be able to make the association, but apparently not.

Whatever!!

It was something called an ANALOGY not a label to anyone.

Quote:This has happened as was obviously approved in the CHRISTIAN CHURCH. Doesn't this mean anything to you as a labelling christian? Do I have to remind you of your own professed religion. Why should I bother

What would you suggest I do, dear? LOL.

Christians live in the world, but are not PART of the world, hence are exposed to the world, however, do not assimilate or suplant worldly beliefs but extract what is needed at the moment as data AS THEY LIVE IN THE FREAKIN WORLD and do not sequester themselves in caves or monastaries unless they are called to that.
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06-11-2007, 08:30 PM,
#57
Jesus Is Biggest Hoax Ever.
serialexplain Wrote:At this juncture in history, you can find all the information/disinformation, accurate statistics/fabricated statistics, quotes of anything imaginable, accurate historical information/fabricated historical information, and
all the whys and wherefores if you dig deep enough.

It is simply nonsequitor. What stands as obvious is an agenda to simply not allow Christianity which will only strengthen a true Christian.
This is so ambiguous it could be directed at anyone. Don't act smart after being caught out.
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06-11-2007, 08:38 PM,
#58
Jesus Is Biggest Hoax Ever.
Maggot....

That is the truth of the issue, view it closer, ok.
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06-11-2007, 10:14 PM,
#59
Jesus Is Biggest Hoax Ever.
The bible was just written by a bunch of L. Ron Hubbards a long time ago. It's just kind of pathetic to be a scientologist, but a "legitimate" scientologist because its two thousand years older.

SerialExplain, why don't you at least give me the credit of an intellectual discussion? It's just as infuriating to me to be dismissed as a non-believer as it is for me to question your faith.

I was a Christian for 13 years, I was confirmed as a member of my church, and then I got old enough to use my brain for myself.

I know well enough about it to discuss it intelligently. Instead you just dismiss me. And that pisses me off a hell of a lot more than the theory behind the religion.

Just because people are against something, doesn't legitimize it, that's one of the weakest arguments I've ever heard but sadly its prolific among the conspiracy crowd. Opining that Christianity has some agenda against it when evangelical Christians are amongst the most powerful subcultures in America and Christianity enjoys fervent support in dozens of countries worldwide is just, I don't even have a word for it, it boggles the mind.

I'm against Christianity because its a false doctrine. It's a distraction and excuse from being involved in the world and taking responsibility for one's actions. It gives people the right do abuse this world and one another because its only an illusion before the eternity in happiness, which is bestowed upon believers for the most arbitrary reasons imaginable. I bet you a lot of believers in ancient and extinct dogmas felt that their way of life was under threat when people wised up and dropped the chains of false belief systems and probably believed that that validated them as well. But belief doesn't make anything true and that's the crock that is religion.

And about the merchandise inside a church. Think about this critically for fuck's sake. What difference in the universe does it make, which things, are stored inside a church? Sure it makes a difference because such and such long-dead guy said it was bad, because he was afraid of marketization of his beliefs, but when you examine it critically its as arbitrary as can be. What defines a church besides the labels afforded it by a believing population? It's just a building, a gaudy building, like any other. And what is a product? Besides entropic natural elements mixed together to form what humans interpret as a video game, but what in reality is nothing more than a silicon disk enclosed in a paper box. There is no mystical relationship between the two regardless of how much arbitrary symbolism you bestow on the two.

Don't you understand there is a greater and more mysterious universe beyond what we stupid-ass humans define as such? There is nothing but energy and consciousness manifesting itself in an infinite void. There is a holographic nature to the universe where all things are just units of the other, operating independently of one another yet intrinsically connected to the entirety of existence. The universe is one evolving organism, just as we are, and each cell in our bodies is, and each atom in it is, and each quark in each atom is, and so on for infinity. It is one continual illusion allowing the universe to manifest itself and evolve. No matter what arbitrary properties we apply to our understanding of these things, it doesn't change the integral nature of them. And that's why religion is wrong. It assumes that the universe applies uniquely and directly to humans.
&We grow to recognize form. We grow to label that form. In doing so, do we become more intelligent? Do we become more awakened?& - Siji Tzu 四季子
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06-11-2007, 11:38 PM, (This post was last modified: 06-11-2007, 11:45 PM by psilocybin.)
#60
Jesus Is Biggest Hoax Ever.
First, I think this topic should be locked because it's going nowhere and it never will.

I think a few things need to be straightened out here.

1. religion is more personal than anything. Arguments such as that was the Spanish inquisition and that's not how it is now support this. The fact is if you're Christian, the Catholic Church had it's meat hooks in your shit for a 1000 years. Any churches that broke off after the reformation still have that 1000 years of stench, so when people go saying well I'm not catholic and they're corrupt, yes these statements are true. Conversely, any form of Christianity has been mutilated by the catholic church because no one, but the church, had control or a copy of the scripture until the gutenberg printing press was developed. With this being said I don't want to hear how your church is good and what you believe is good. It's all personal if you are arguing on that level.

2. Historically speaking, Jesus did exist, but any detailed credible information is not available. Sorry folks, but the bible doesn't work as a historical source. As I stated above 1000 years of complete control of it by an institution that even most Christians agree is riddled with corruption to the core makes a source unreliable. I mean using the bible as a source for an argument is like waiting 1500 years and arguing 911 facts with the 911 commission report.

3. Atheism and Christianity are motivated by the same core belief, just on opposite ends: Faith and Lack of faith. A lack of faith is brought on by logic paradoxes in religion that start people rolling in the direction of atheism or agnosticism. Such paradoxes are how every religion thinks it's correct, proving scripture with scripture and the absence of tangible proof of divinity to name a few. The problem is that total atheism takes faith just like Christianity takes faith. Atheists have faith that religion is BS. I'm an atheist, but at least I can see that discrediting something doesn't make you 100% right. I'm sure if God, pretending there is one, showed himself to everyone in some visage, that some atheists would declare it a hoax, like it was done with holograms. I think the arguments here go nowhere because of this faith vs. no faith issue.

4. I believe religion in a free society is just like politics. Everyone has their opinion. There is really no true authoritarian. Yeah you can say the bible, but anyone who's cruised through about 10 churches know that it's really up to the pastor. I'm a musician, and one thing that most working musicians have is a church gig. Churches rely on music now to further entice all the senses at a service to keep it interesting and fresh. I've played at nearly 20 churches around the valley. These range from Catholic to wierd off shoots like the Church of Unity. Other than the fact that they say Jesus is lord, these places are all over the mark. Everyone thinks that they are right, and some Christians think they are more right than other Christians. Mix in every other type of religious belief or position and you have a full on cluster fuck... Just like politics.


Personally, I'm an Atheist. On the old board, I spent all kinds of time and energy arguing. It truly is a waste of time. No one is going to convert to Christianity and no one is going to de convert because of this thread. I understand the motivation behind it, because it is frustrating when something seems so clear to you, but others don't get it. The problem is that last sentence could be said to either the Christians or the atheists, because that is the nature of how they feel in regards to this argument and those on the other end of it. Now for my personal blow.

The argumentative style of most of the people that advocate religion and Christianity mostly is very annoying. There were some very good points brought up in the last 15 or so posts with a lot of good historical data. Nice job triplesix.

Serial's initial response was great:
Quote:Ok, so why does Jesus bother so many people, hmmm? If He is not real, just don't think about Him if you don't want to.
This is a very good point, possibly the most logical one. If you're an atheist shut up about it. Arguing with these folks is just as bad as being a Mormon and going on missions to convert the unfortunate.

There was a previous retort from cnb that has the tell tale signs of a useless argument.
Quote:Know Jesus, Know Peace.

I don't know if he was joking or serious, but taken seriously, this kind of retort buries the argument. There is no arguing for or against it. It's a blanket statement that has no capability of being legitimized. This where these religion arguments downward spiral. An overflow of data from the person questioning religion and an overflow of faith from the one advocating. Apples and oranges.

I don't believe in God, Nirvana, or the veneration of my ancestors. I came to these conclusions in many ways, but the most fundamental factor was my own spiritual development if you can call it that. BTW I think spirituality is a pussified form of saying I don't know what to believe in, so I'm using spiritual development as the buzzword for when I was in the grey. I got into heavy reading about religion and philosophy to prime me. Once I digested all this I started using hallucinogens to separate me from my ego, so I could be as objective as possible. It was here where I could deprogram myself. I went as far as getting my native American buddy to get me into a Kiva and have his father feed me the peyote tea and help me find my spirit animal. Unfortunately I was too "white" and couldn't locate the entity. years beyond that now. I understand what religion was really functioning as: a belief system that put order to a confused world. It is nothing more and nothing less. Now I'm just me. No religion and very critical of everything around me. I think this is the key is being observant, not subservient. If you come to a religious belief by studying and personal evaluation, then it is right, because reality is a construct of the human mind. Now on the other hand, churchies fucking kill me. My cousin's daughter died of SIDS. After that him and his wife went all born again. It is so bad that they don't serve any alcohol at house parties (big ones like 4th of July, superbowl, and one wedding), won't let gay relatives come, and invite church people to family functions. I've seen a complete erosion of their free will, and the pastor seems domineering in a passive aggressive way. All I can say is unhealthy. You can't rely on others or institutions to breast feed you a reality. You have to come to it yourself or you'll be lost forever.
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