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Anyone Knew Satan Wasn't The One To Deceive Eve ?
06-10-2007, 11:17 PM, (This post was last modified: 06-10-2007, 11:18 PM by DHammer.)
#1
Anyone Knew Satan Wasn't The One To Deceive Eve ?
Acording to the book of Enoch, it was the angel Gadreel
Quote:and the third was named Gadreel; it is he who showed the children of men all the blows of death, and he led astray Eve,and showed the weapons of death to the sons of men

hmm ...

but satan is called
that old serpent, the devil, and dragon ...

in revelation

if it wasn't satan who used the serpent to deceive Eve, why call satan the old serpent ? does he have a fetish for long animals that crawl ?
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Reply
06-11-2007, 12:25 AM, (This post was last modified: 06-11-2007, 12:25 AM by SerialExpLain.)
#2
Anyone Knew Satan Wasn't The One To Deceive Eve ?
...one-eyed, one-horn flying purple people eater....like the song says, I guess :biggrin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDFj_JNa_e8
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06-11-2007, 06:05 PM,
#3
Anyone Knew Satan Wasn't The One To Deceive Eve ?
Quote:...one-eyed, one-horn flying purple people eater....like the song says, I guess biggrin.gif
[Image: 1r3efaefsdfspi4.jpg]
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Reply
06-11-2007, 06:18 PM,
#4
Anyone Knew Satan Wasn't The One To Deceive Eve ?
Quote:Acording to the book of Enoch, it was the angel Gadreel
Quote:and the third was named Gadreel; it is he who showed the children of men all the blows of death, and he led astray Eve,and showed the weapons of death to the sons of men

hmm ...

but satan is called
that old serpent, the devil, and dragon ...

in revelation

if it wasn't satan who used the serpent to deceive Eve, why call satan the old serpent ? does he have a fetish for long animals that crawl ?
Its good that you are reading books outside the accepted catholic reading list(canon?). I think the writers called this person Gadreel so that if women became more powerful historically they could blame all troubles on her. If this happened there would have been many biblical scholars/doctors marking the similarity between Gadreel and Gabriel (archangel), and making what we attribute to satan today, to her. Yep those biblical doctors(as in to meddle) couldn't seem to make their minds up on the names and attributes of the 'bad guys', even though as its all taken from hebrew it must have taken quite a bit of doctoring to invent names to serve their purpose. I guess they deserved all that wine that they drank.
I found Jordan Maxwells videos very interesting. In particular you might want to check out toxic religion where he (as I remember) he quotes from the book of enoch and i think job(jobe?) extensively :
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...=toxic+religion
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06-11-2007, 06:29 PM,
#5
Anyone Knew Satan Wasn't The One To Deceive Eve ?
Quote:
Quote: ...one-eyed, one-horn flying purple people eater....like the song says, I guess biggrin.gif
[Image: 1r3efaefsdfspi4.jpg]

Thats not a baby seal, thats a young adult. :wink:

Also, whales, sharks and other predators, eat them alive. The ones that get one killing blow to the head are blessed.


Quote:hmm ...

but satan is called
that old serpent, the devil, and dragon ...

in revelation

if it wasn't satan who used the serpent to deceive Eve, why call satan the old serpent ? does he have a fetish for long animals that crawl ?

Revelations attempt to tie everything previous to it together, so its an understandable use of words in trying to establish the continuity of the "Christian" cosmology.

There is also the common reference to bad ass sea serpents and the "end of the world/cycle" in many different mythologies.

The assertation that they are all the same being is one made in Church dogma, and the Book of Enoch was generally excluded, perhaps due to the additional inconsistencies it caused.
Wyrd bi∂ ful aræd : Vituð ér enn eða hvat?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[Image: madwolfoy0.jpg][Image: sharksmall1kd6.jpg][Image: bearkodiakchugachfe7.jpg]
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06-11-2007, 08:29 PM, (This post was last modified: 06-11-2007, 08:50 PM by DHammer.)
#6
Anyone Knew Satan Wasn't The One To Deceive Eve ?
Quote:I think the writers called this person Gadreel

As far as i know the book was written by 1 person alone,ENOCH, or at least that chapter, (since it contains at least one book written by Noah)...that is, unless you can provide some evidence to state otherwise ...

and yeah, i'm aware of jordan Maxwell :wink:

any Christians out there ? I wanna hear your take on this ...



Quote:Thats not a baby seal, thats a young adult. wink.gif
[Image: yourockao9.jpg]







hmmm... maybe the verse in the Book of Enoch doesn't refer to the time in which Eve took the fruit and ate of it at all ? Maybe it talks about a time in which they left the Garden of Eden ... just a thought.
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Reply
06-11-2007, 08:37 PM, (This post was last modified: 06-11-2007, 08:42 PM by maggot.)
#7
Anyone Knew Satan Wasn't The One To Deceive Eve ?
Quote:
Quote:I think the writers called this person Gadreel

As far as i know the book was written by 1 person alone,ENOCH, or at least that chapter, (since it contains prophecies made by Noah also)...that is, unless you can provide some evidence to state otherwise ...

and yeah, i'm aware of jordan Maxwell :wink:

any Christians out there ? I wanna hear your take on this ...



Quote:Thats not a baby seal, thats a young adult. wink.gif

[Image: yourockao9.jpg]
Well the book is attributed to someone/something called enoch , I can't have evidence otherwise however its an assumption that each book was only written by the person its named after. By example : Another writer William Shakespeare is supposedly just the name used by as I recall Sir Francis Bacons' house.
The thing is Enoch could have been the head of a church or school of teaching - just because history says something doesn't make it true. In that post I am suggesting that each book is a combined effort of monks - I expect collaborating in a monastery. By another example many buddhist monks made discoveries/illuminations/enlightenment - when they wrote these down they didn't use their own name. Instead they always attributed it to 'The Buddha' (source : Alan Watts(not Alan Watt))
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06-11-2007, 08:46 PM,
#8
Anyone Knew Satan Wasn't The One To Deceive Eve ?
yep, i would say ...
doubt, search , seek, and find

hmm that's what Jesus said ! well whaddaya know ...

"Seek and ye shall find"
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Reply
06-11-2007, 09:01 PM, (This post was last modified: 06-11-2007, 09:10 PM by SerialExpLain.)
#9
Anyone Knew Satan Wasn't The One To Deceive Eve ?
...one eyed, one horned......lol
Reply
06-11-2007, 09:29 PM,
#10
Anyone Knew Satan Wasn't The One To Deceive Eve ?
Quote:As far as i know the book was written by 1 person alone,ENOCH

Lemme get this straight , you think the actual fysical book was written by "Noah's father" ? the-mythical-Enoch-turned angel-Metatron ?


Quote:The Book of Enoch is a title given to several pseudepigraphal works that attribute themselves to Enoch, the great-grandfather of Noah;
~answers.com

go look up that neat word , pseudepigraphal

peace'
If Thine I that I spy with my own little I Doeth Offend thee ; Pluck It out.

Reply
06-11-2007, 09:47 PM,
#11
Anyone Knew Satan Wasn't The One To Deceive Eve ?
Quote:9-11

Quote:The date of the massive terrorist attack on the United States, resulting in the collapse of the World Trade Center's twin towers and surrounding buildings, and part of the Pentagon building. The attack, carried out by members of <span style="color:#FF1111">Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda terrorist organization

~ANSWERS.COM


i dont consider the Book of Enoch to be a fake, and the same goes for 9/11, i don't think Osama did it.

the book of Enoch im quoting is "Enoch I" for the ones who know what im talking about, not the fake ones like Enoch II.
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Reply
06-11-2007, 10:49 PM, (This post was last modified: 06-11-2007, 10:50 PM by standvast.)
#12
Anyone Knew Satan Wasn't The One To Deceive Eve ?
look you asked for "evidence", and i gave you a mainstream source ,
if you would have bothered to read it , or an entry on it in another encyclopedia,
it will tell you that scholars generally believe Enoch 1 to be a pseudepigraphal "book".
What that means is it was attributed to a mythic figure/person and in his honour writtin in his name.
i dont know what you mean by "fake" ?
The thing i wanted to be clear on is that it is likely not possible that it was written by the Biblical Enoch.
But hey you believe that if you want.

peace'
If Thine I that I spy with my own little I Doeth Offend thee ; Pluck It out.

Reply
06-26-2007, 08:45 AM,
#13
Anyone Knew Satan Wasn't The One To Deceive Eve ?
Quote:Acording to the book of Enoch, it was the angel Gadreel
Quote:and the third was named Gadreel; it is he who showed the children of men all the blows of death, and he led astray Eve,and showed the weapons of death to the sons of men

hmm ...

but satan is called
that old serpent, the devil, and dragon ...
Quote:hmmm... maybe the verse in the Book of Enoch doesn't refer to the time in which Eve took the fruit and ate of it at all ? Maybe it talks about a time in which they left the Garden of Eden ... just a thought.

So your saying that Enoch says, the serpent has a name other than; satan "the accuser", dragon, devil, evil one, the prince of the power of the air, prince of this world, morning star, lucifer, ect..???



So what ?

I fail to see what, if any, relevance that has on anything.



There are so many names for false gods and angels/demons like -

Beelzebub, the prince of demons, Abaddon/Apollyon the angel of the bottomless pit, El Elyon the Most High god of the Canaanite, Ashtoreth/Astarte goddess of the Zidonians and Philistines, Dagon, Molech, Belial, Azazel, Antichrist, ect....

For the Chaldeans, the Morning Star was the prince of the demons who was also the seducing serpent.



How would another name change anything ?



Or of course Gadreel could have been following satan's orders, a messenger or servant on satans behalf
&Alice laughed, &There's no use trying,& she said: &one can't believe impossible things.& &I daresay you haven't had much practice,& said the Queen. &When I was your age I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.&
- Lewis Carroll

&Things are seldom as they seem ... Skim milk masquerades as cream.&
- Gilbert and Sullivan (Pinafore)

At NASA, it really is rocket science, and the decision makers really are rocket scientists.
But a body of research that is getting more and more attention points to the ways that smart people working collectively can be dumber than the sum of their parts. .. Irwin Janis? &Groupthink:& is a mode of thinking that people engage in when they are deeply involved in a cohesive in-group, when the members' striving for unanimity override realistic appraisals ? It is the triumph of concurrence over good sense, and authority over expertise.&
-John Schwartz & Matthew L. Wade
Reply
06-26-2007, 09:08 AM,
#14
Anyone Knew Satan Wasn't The One To Deceive Eve ?
Quote:Lemme get this straight , you think the actual fysical book was written by "Noah's father" ? the-mythical-Enoch-turned angel-Metatron ?
Quote:the book of Enoch im quoting is "Enoch I" for the ones who know what im talking about, not the fake ones like Enoch II.

In these descriptions of celestial titles, one may find the origins of another image of Enoch, quite different from early Enochic literature, which was later developed in Merkabah mysticism--the image of the angel Metatron, "The Prince of the Presence."

The Slavonic text provides rudimentary descriptions of several traditional Merkabah titles of Enoch/Metatron, (e.g., "the Lad," "the Scribe," "the Prince of the World," "the Prince of Presence"). Keeping these manifestations of Merkabah symbolism in mind, my presentation will focus upon only one of these titles of Enoch, namely, "The Prince, or the Governor, of the World."

The Merkabah tradition stresses the role of Metatron as the "governing power over the nations, kingdoms and rulers on earth." 3 Enoch portrays Metatron as the Prince of the World, the leader of seventy two princes of the kingdom of the world, who speaks (pleads) in favor of the world before the Holy One.

http://www.marquette.edu/maqom/metatron



In the Babylonian Talmud, Metatron is mentioned only three times, but the references are important. All three relate to the problem of Metatron's immense power, which may have caused some people to confuse him with God. In later literature he was even mentioned as the "lesser Yahweh"

http://www.pantheon.org/articles/m/metatron.html






What is the difference between this (slavic) Enoch and the one portrayed in the early texts ???[i]


"Ethiopic Enoch" or "1 Enoch")

http://yourgoingtohell.com/hell/enoch.html

http://www.earlyjewishwritings.com/1enoch.html

http://www.livius.org/ei-er/enoch/enoch.htm


This Enoch doesn't seem to be Metatron.





<span style="color:#33CC00">The titles applied to Enoch/Metatron sound surprisingly similar to those applied to the New Testament Satan.


John 14:30
Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

John 12:31
Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this age hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Ephesians 2:2
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience

Ephesians 6:12
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.
&Alice laughed, &There's no use trying,& she said: &one can't believe impossible things.& &I daresay you haven't had much practice,& said the Queen. &When I was your age I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.&
- Lewis Carroll

&Things are seldom as they seem ... Skim milk masquerades as cream.&
- Gilbert and Sullivan (Pinafore)

At NASA, it really is rocket science, and the decision makers really are rocket scientists.
But a body of research that is getting more and more attention points to the ways that smart people working collectively can be dumber than the sum of their parts. .. Irwin Janis? &Groupthink:& is a mode of thinking that people engage in when they are deeply involved in a cohesive in-group, when the members' striving for unanimity override realistic appraisals ? It is the triumph of concurrence over good sense, and authority over expertise.&
-John Schwartz & Matthew L. Wade
Reply
06-26-2007, 09:37 AM,
#15
Anyone Knew Satan Wasn't The One To Deceive Eve ?
one last thought,


Who wrote Enoch ? I don't know but,

Isn't it interesting that there are two biblical persons named Enoch and other similar** names connected to each.



Genesis 4:17
And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.






ADAM & EVE (through Cain)

Cain

ENOCH **

Mehujael

Methushael **

Lamech **

TubalCain



ADAM & EVE (through Seth)

Seth

Enosh **

Kenan

Mahalalel

Jared

ENOCH **

Methuselah **

Lamech **

Noah





There are no dates or ages listed for Cain's descendents, but given the length of life and childbearing ages of Seth's descendents It could be possible that both lived at or near the same time.

Cain's Enoch must have had some fame and power given a city named after him.



Why couldn't one claim to be, the other ???





METATRON/ENOCH - latter Slavonic Enoch
Quote:His body endures radical changes as it becomes covered with the divine light. A significant detail in this description is that Enoch is not transformed into light but covered, "clothed," with the light of God's Glory.

http://www.marquette.edu/maqom/hesychasm



The Zohar speaks of Metatron as "the shining light of the Shekhinah", or the divine presence. The Zohar recounts that Metatron was created before any earthly thing because he was to personify a sort of microcosmic spiritual perfection, completely independent from corruption and contamination. In a subsequent Zoharic work, the Tikkunei Zohar, Metatron is perceived as the biblical "tree of knowledge of good and bad."

......

The flames that constantly emanate from Metatron bring about armies of angels, as his name is the numerical equivalent of Shaddai, which is one of the various portrayals of G-d

http://www.abigailsarah.co.za/myart/The%20...ightofenoch.htm


And I gazed at all of myself, and I had become like one of the glorious ones, and there was no observable difference" (22:8-10).

http://www.well.com/~davidu/transfiguration2.html
interesting,

2 Corinthians 11:14
KJV: And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

ASV: And no marvel; for even Satan fashioneth himself into an angel of light.

BBE: And it is no wonder; for even Satan himself is able to take the form of an angel of light.
&Alice laughed, &There's no use trying,& she said: &one can't believe impossible things.& &I daresay you haven't had much practice,& said the Queen. &When I was your age I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.&
- Lewis Carroll

&Things are seldom as they seem ... Skim milk masquerades as cream.&
- Gilbert and Sullivan (Pinafore)

At NASA, it really is rocket science, and the decision makers really are rocket scientists.
But a body of research that is getting more and more attention points to the ways that smart people working collectively can be dumber than the sum of their parts. .. Irwin Janis? &Groupthink:& is a mode of thinking that people engage in when they are deeply involved in a cohesive in-group, when the members' striving for unanimity override realistic appraisals ? It is the triumph of concurrence over good sense, and authority over expertise.&
-John Schwartz & Matthew L. Wade
Reply


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