Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Jesus Vs. Christianity
06-20-2007, 06:13 PM,
#1
Jesus Vs. Christianity
Im not really a religious person, but Ive always considered myself a christian. Grew up going to church every Sunday, and was enrolled in a private school up until Jr. High. I used to put my faith totally in Jesus as I was told to do- following the way to heaven according to the "Word" of God-as interpreted by the evangelical branch of christianity. That is something Ive been having a problem with lately...Ill explain.
Ive awakened to the manipulations of the masses via media, and social conditioning, but refrained from doing the same on the religious issues until I could focus on what it was -exactly- that I put my faith into.

Ive come to a realization that -for the most part, mainstream christians are taught pretty much the doctrines and preachings of Paul and other churchmen- instead of the words of the messiah. According to Paul the way to salvation was to believe that Jesus died for our sins and that if we accepted him as God and as our savior - we would be welcome in heaven... yet in my opinion, from what I have read, and come to understand. Jesus never expected that of anyone...
The churchmen, under the influence of Paul, have misrepresented the core elements of the Truth that we have in Jesus. Most notably, the doctrine of the sacrificial, substitutionary atonement by crucifixion is far from what ive read in the words of Jesus.

I mean besides the fact that Jesus wasnt even his real name, I do believe in his message, however I dont nor have not seen in the Bible where Jesus claims to be God. I do see where he says he speaks for God, and that him and God are one, but I see that as- One in agreement. Not one as in one entity.(see John 17:20-23) He also says plenty of other things in the Gospels that contradict that they are one entity.

Im not trying to change anyones beliefs here - just concerned with some new revelations Ive come across- in studying some biblical verses...Especially in light of the fact that Ive come to realize the manipulation of the Bible by Secret Societies (sun worshippers)...and the exact life of the pagan sun god Horus being put in the Bible as the life of Jesus...therefore Ive come to think that the belief in jesus as God is basically a belief in the sun god-whether by ignorance or not it remains the same. If I am to believe the words of Jesus though, things change. He wants all to put their faith and trust in God - not him. This simple manipulation causes a whole shift in what actually makes you a christian.

Here sare some verses that I believe directly contradict things that are taught to mainstream christians...
John 5:25 <span style="color:#CC0000">Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me, has eternal life; he does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. [26] For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself,
[27] and has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of man.

John 12:49<span style="color:#CC0000">I have not spoken on my own authority; the Father who sent me has himself given me commandment what to say and what to speak.

John 8:32 <span style="color:#CC0000">If you abide in my word, you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.

I believe this verse addresses those that say the whole Bible is the "word of God"-Jesus disagrees...
John 5:38 <span style="color:#CC0000">and you do not have his word abiding in you, for you do not believe him whom he has sent.
[39] You search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness to me;
[40] yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

This is a good verse to those mainstream christians, from Jesus himself...
Matthew 7:20 <span style="color:#CC0000">Thus you will know them by their fruits.
[21] "Not every one who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
[22] On that day many will say to me, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?'
[23] And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.'

I'd like to hear some input on these thoughts of mine-especially any christians that may beleve the same or otherwise...
I will say, that it still takes Faith on my part to believe the words of Jesus being that the Secret Societies have manipulated the translations of the Bible and other important texts. But I can say one thing with certainty, If everyone on earth followed the words of Jesus according to what is there, i believe that we'd be in a much better state than we are in today.
"Listen to everyone, read everything, believe nothing unless you can prove it in your own research"
~William Cooper

DTTNWO!
Reply
06-20-2007, 07:03 PM,
#2
Jesus Vs. Christianity
:biggrin: a pile of sun-dried poopy :biggrin:

Dung here...
Reply
06-20-2007, 07:48 PM,
#3
Jesus Vs. Christianity
c'mon- Id like some better responses than that. Please. if you dont agree -Id like to know on what and why...
"Listen to everyone, read everything, believe nothing unless you can prove it in your own research"
~William Cooper

DTTNWO!
Reply
06-20-2007, 10:37 PM, (This post was last modified: 06-20-2007, 10:55 PM by triplesix.)
#4
Jesus Vs. Christianity
I was raised Christian as well. My father is very religious, having come to it more as he got older. He has worked his with either total crazy people at the old state hospitals, mentally challenged people, or elderly people his entire life. I imagine it has been emotionally stressful and so I feel my dad takes some comfort in his religion as a consequence of his choices in employment. He's a sacrificial character. For myself though, I was made to attend every Sunday, barring summertime, until I was 13. At which point I went through our ministry's confirmation to become an adult member of the church. At which time I was able to exercise my own choice about attendance, which I decided not to do.

I continued to identify myself largely with the Christian ideology and even wore the cross necklace I was given upon being confirmed at 13 well into the next five years. I realized over time however that my "experiences" with Jesus and God were a superstition more than a religion. I was afraid when I wasn't wearing my cross necklace, which I thought was "unlucky" and I only "prayed" when I was worried about someone close to me, or wanted something, or some other basically selfish purpose. Now this will get the standard not-a-true-Christian equals not-a-Christian argument which I dismiss immediately. I do not differentiate between an acting, "true" Christian and a fallen, "false" Christian.

In time this led me to examine deeper my attitudes towards God. I started studying inconsistancies in the Bible and contradictions against the theory of evolution. Then I studied similarities of the Bible with other ancient religions (like your Son of God vs. Sun-God). Finally, I decided that it was all a bunch of bull and God did not exist. I became a scientist cold to the universe. This in turn didn't satisfy me so I studied Buddhism. This didn't satisfy me either so I ignored standardized religion and decided I believed in God and "spirituality" with all its latent connotations as well. I began to study quantum mechanics and particle-wave duality. I looked deeper into esoteric and entheogenic philosophies. I became an avid taoist, smoked even more pot, began expanding my mind with hallucinogens and exposing myself to alternative philosophy and information. Long story short, I'm still on my path.

Anyway, I figured I'd paint a picture of where I'm coming from before I replied directly to your post, because I can tell you're looking for some insight into what you've come to discover. George Stroumboulopoulos had on his show a guy named Tony Campolo who started an evangelical movement called the "Red-letter Christians." I have to admit I know nothing about the movement aside from what he said in that interview, but if you are interested in a Christian movement without all the crap, he made this sound like one to check out. (If you don't know but I'm assuming you do since your provided quotes were in red print) Red letters are reserved in the bible only for when Jesus is talking. All of his dialog is in red. Campolo teaches nothing beyond what Jesus is quoted as saying literally. Also, Campolo has a pragmatic approach towards his theology, an example of which can be seen in this quote, where he discusses "intelligent design": "I have serious problems with fundamentalist Christians and their creationist theories. Although I believe that scripture is divinely inspired and infallible, I have a hard time going along with the belief that the whole creation process occurred in six twenty-four hour days. My skepticism is due, in part, to the fact that the Bible says that the sun wasn’t created until the fourth day of creation (Genesis 1:16-19). I have a hard time figuring how twenty-four hour days could have been measured before that."

Now allow me to present my views on your post.

Firstly, I'll address this:
Quote:"According to Paul the way to salvation was to believe that Jesus died for our sins and that if we accepted him as God and as our savior - we would be welcome in heaven..."
Many of the quotes attributed to God's attitude towards man and man's entry to heaven indeed come from the book of Romans, whose first chapter and verse identify the author as Paul. Examples, Let God be true, but every man a liar...( Romans 3:4) and For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (Romans 3:23). These are heavy on the guilt. The Old Testament, always a downer, adds But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. (Isaiah 64:6). At this point, Jesus comes as a breath of fresh air, check out Matthew 22:36-38 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with ALL thy heart, and with ALL thy soul, and with ALL thy mind. THIS is the first and great commandment."

Still, this leaves one to logically examine what we've unearthed here. The Old Testament says "all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags" in the eyes of God. Paul backs this up with "all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." This clearly states that it is not enough to be a good person and Jesus does nothing to dispute this. He says "thou shalt love the Lord thy God with ALL thy heart..." et cetera, implying that it is through believing and worshipping the Lord that we ascend into heaven. Paul went on to say (Romans 5:6) ...Christ died for the ungodly...(Romans 5:8) But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us...(Romans 6:23) For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

All this goes only to reinforce your assertion that Christianity has been largely contaminated through the gospels of Paul and others. This is a very subtle control method. Essentially, Christianity had been an off-shoot of Judaism where its members believed Jesus to be the messiah even though he had not met the requirements prophesized in the Old Testament. Paul turned the religion into a worship of the God-son Jesus, creating the holy triumvirate. This was a 4th century hijacking of Christianity by trinitarianists for purposes of control. My previous post addresses this grievance: John 14:6 says Jesus said "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." This is a DIRECT VIOLATION of the 10 Commandments! In which it clearly states "You shall have no other gods before me." Jesus, if implicitly God, is still explicitly placed between the worshipper and God. If Jesus is just a man in agreement with God, as you suggested, it is even more damaging of a proclamation. This is clearly the method of control inserted by the church for the purposes of controlling their parishioners. It sets the church between the worshipper and his God, especially in the Catholic church, making it impossible by the doctrines of the church to reach salvation without it.

Secondly, on a much shorter note, the crucifixion story is a fabricated farce for many reasons. Jesus was crucified by Pontius Pilate. Pilate ruled the Roman province Judaea for just over ten years between 26 and 37 CE...who executed so many people in his small province he was recalled to Rome to explain himself. To put this into perspective, twenty years before Pontius became governor of Judaea, the Syrian governor Quintilus Varus had 2,000 Jews crucified for protesting his policies. Thirty years later, in 66 CE, the Judeaen governor, in Pontius' own province, Gessius Florus crucified 3,600 Jews of all ages and genders calling them "enemies of Rome." Upon the fall of Jerusalem four years later, Roman general and later Emporer Titus ordered 500 Jews crucified and hung from the city walls per day. Ignoring the fact that preceding and following Jesus' "special" execution the Romans were prolific in mass and indiscriminate executions the Passion violates many of the Jew's own codified laws, such as: no trials to be held at night or on the eve or day of a festival like Passover, unanimous agreement by witnesses, protection against self-incrimination, no charge of blasphemy except for pronouncing the divine name, and stoning rather than crucifixion as a punishment in the event of a conviction. My whole point is the Passion is a fake story created by early Christians, who were all but Jews themselves, to pacify the occupying Romans, casting the blame on Jews (and essentially themselves) for martyring Jesus instead of on the Romans, to avoid more mass executions and the suppression of their religion. This clearly proves that the crucifixion of Jesus is an example of rewritten history.

Thirdly, you said:
Quote:"I do believe in his message, however I dont nor have not seen in the Bible where Jesus claims to be God. I do see where he says he speaks for God, and that him and God are one, but I see that as- One in agreement. Not one as in one entity."
I addressed this previously with John 14:6. Assuming what you say is true, it makes Jesus' statement "No one comes to the Father but through me" difficult to swallow without some figurative interpretations and even then, still in violation of the ten commandments. Assuming he is a seperate but connected entity as God can do a little to pacify this issue, but then it violates what you've come to believe about Jesus.

Lastly, your last paragraph is important. This is where you present some of your interpretations and realizations about Christianity and it's really good:
Quote:Im not trying to change anyones beliefs here - just concerned with some new revelations Ive come across- in studying some biblical verses...Especially in light of the fact that Ive come to realize the manipulation of the Bible by Secret Societies (sun worshippers)...and the exact life of the pagan sun god Horus being put in the Bible as the life of Jesus...therefore Ive come to think that the belief in jesus as God is basically a belief in the sun god-whether by ignorance or not it remains the same. If I am to believe the words of Jesus though, things change. He wants all to put their faith and trust in God - not him. This simple manipulation causes a whole shift in what actually makes you a christian.
I will not get into the Horus connection because you've obviously already done your homework there. The only thing I will add is that Jesus' life and other aspects attributed to him contain virtual parallels to not just Horus, but also the Babylonian Nimrod, Krishna, Mithra, Osiris, Dionysus, Adonis, Tammuz, Saturn and a whole pantheon of other gods of antiquity. Nearly all of which have a connection to the sun. Equally important for this subject is the examination of the myths of Christmas, Easter, the resurrection, and how these events have previous arcanum and astrological importance. Also, the connection between Pisces and Jesus, the fisherman, among others. You are obviously aware of these similarities though, since these are what are causing the conflict with you and your faith.

Well, I guess I will wrap this up. I'm sure some people will have a lot to say about all of this. The reason so much crap is underlined is that I was designating what I lifted from my previous posts, that way if it covered a subject incompletely you can check out the elaborated post. I hope you find my observations interesting. Hopefully it will help you in your spiritual quest or development or whatever you wish to call it. My advice is, regardless of the childhood connections we share to Christianity, and the scattered philosophical gems in the Bible, it would be in everyone's best interest to sever ties to the church and the religion. It is a shortcut to spiritual development and enlightenment and a disease to the spirit. You can obviously take a lot of good away from the Bible, but I find myself endlessly discovering the contradictions and issues with the Bible, making it impractical to learn from. What's the point in learning information from something which has been proven to be rife with disinformation? It's too difficult. We all have a little bit of God in us, and we're all capable of discovering that ourselves. We don't need to the help of phantom prophets. I think you know this to be true. There is nothing keeping you from being "Jesus" yourself but the crap society has thrown in front of you to blur your vision. When you see the universe and God clearly, for the first time, you'll realize all the shit they've thrown in front of your face.
&We grow to recognize form. We grow to label that form. In doing so, do we become more intelligent? Do we become more awakened?& - Siji Tzu 四季子
Reply
06-21-2007, 12:12 AM,
#5
Jesus Vs. Christianity
Quote:some new revelations

Alliance of Civilizations -- agenda-based perhaps?
Reply
06-21-2007, 10:10 AM,
#6
Jesus Vs. Christianity
Quote:I'd like to hear some input on these thoughts of mine-especially any christians that may beleve the same or otherwise...

Quote:a pile of sun-dried poopy

Dung here...

SerialExpLain, could you spend some words giving your opinion of the opening poster's,
ideas/beliefs /conceptualisations, please ?, i'd be interresting in hearing your thoughts.
Since i'm no Christian i'll refrain from comment. but i would like to read some
self-percieved Christians honor the OP's request for imput.

peace'
If Thine I that I spy with my own little I Doeth Offend thee ; Pluck It out.

Reply
06-21-2007, 03:50 PM, (This post was last modified: 06-21-2007, 04:29 PM by SerialExpLain.)
#7
Jesus Vs. Christianity
Sorry Standvast, there is nothing for a Christian to post in regards to blasphemy in equating Jesus with the Sun. Jesus vs. Christianity. Jesus as Sun God.

No Standvast, it is not worth time and energy. The King James Bible holds the truth.

I question any and all agendas at this juncture of time to dillute, misinterpret, out-right blaspheme, and uphold any of the other known agendas for the destruction of true Christianity in the world.

If Masonic-Gnostic forces have seized control of the world and are making overt displays of their ultimate power over religious messages at this point, so be it.

Peace, out

SE

There is really no more that I can say on any topics here, as I think I have said all that I possibly can.
If what I have said does not make any sense to anyone here, there is nothing more for me to do here - at all.
Reply
06-21-2007, 06:04 PM,
#8
Jesus Vs. Christianity
Quote:I question any and all agendas at this juncture of time to dillute, misinterpret, out-right blaspheme, and uphold any of the other known agendas for the destruction of true Christianity in the world.

except your own

no one has a monopoly on Truth - that includes King James
Vitam Impendere Vero
Reply
06-21-2007, 06:53 PM,
#9
Jesus Vs. Christianity
Quote:Sorry Standvast, there is nothing for a Christian to post in regards to blasphemy in equating Jesus with the Sun. Jesus vs. Christianity. Jesus as Sun God.

Would not a self-respecting Christian point out [Bible in hand / beliefs in focus]
why and how his/her beliefs contradict such associations as Jezus-Sun ?
If your initial reaction is something along the lines of "poopy kaka doodoo"
i would like to think you would refine it somewhat , and make known exactly why it
is you feel It is so offensive to Christ as you know "him" or why
having a different understanding of your own,
makes you so vehemently oppose someone else's personal beliefs.

Quote:No Standvast, it is not worth time and energy. The King James Bible holds the truth.

What you choose to put time and energy into, i will not advise you on,
but i will ask you to extend the opening poster the courtesy of either
giving him/her on-topic, constructive imput as asked,
or simply thinking to yourself; "responding to this would be waste of time",
and simply not responding.

In another thread, i said i'd do the same for you if you made an OP
to a thread which would deal with Biblical Christian perspective solely,
i said i'd also ask of people to not drop in a post a flamey one-liner like "jesus =sun"
so consider me now doing the same on Ill-human-oddity's and the discussion's behalf.

Quote:I question any and all agendas at this juncture of time to dillute, misinterpret, out-right blaspheme, and uphold any of the other known agendas for the destruction of true Christianity in the world.

Then i would be much interested in a thread of yours expounding on true Christianity,
as i've never heard of an agenda to which any and all other agendums stand opposed,
and frankly would really like to hear about how you experience your beliefs.
[If you find this way to personal to speak about on the internet to relative strangers, i understand.]

Quote:If Masonic-Gnostic forces have seized control of the world and are making overt displays of their ultimate power over religious messages at this point, so be it.

But i am still under the impression we are here to discuss personal understandings/beliefs,
even if these beliefs can be summed up as ;the KJV Bible holds all truth/answers.
IOW this is not as much about Masonic-Gnostic forces controlling whatever, nor is it about
mocking Christianity, or delivering religious message,.. It's about ill Human Oddity's personal conceptualization/beliefs.

Quote:There is really no more that I can say on any topics here, as I think I have said all that I possibly can.
If what I have said does not make any sense to anyone here, there is nothing more for me to do here - at all.

You make a lot of sense to me at times, at others i don't follow you, i enjoy most your links,
and do not at all want to leave you with the impression you are not respected as a member
who contributes, who is appreciated, who I [we] wouldn't want to do without.
dear lord, think of poor Madizms, he'd be crawling up the walls and likely never get over your absence :wink:

peace'
If Thine I that I spy with my own little I Doeth Offend thee ; Pluck It out.

Reply
06-21-2007, 07:12 PM, (This post was last modified: 06-21-2007, 07:13 PM by SerialExpLain.)
#10
Jesus Vs. Christianity
Dear Standvast....LOL :biggrin:

Ok, I will put some effort into this thread later when more time permits. I must admit I have been very sour on this subject since that horrid Zeitgeist movie and reading Constance Cumbey material. Oh, those big waves; I get so tired...but I'll be back...what a swimmer, ha!.,. Good thing I started swimming lessons @ like five.

Sure wish that minister, what was his name Ovorkner or something like that was still around..

Hey Jack....where are you? Come back Jack!

KJV needs a team...
Reply
06-21-2007, 07:19 PM,
#11
Jesus Vs. Christianity
Triplesix, now this is a good response...Thanks for that.

Quote:Anyway, I figured I'd paint a picture of where I'm coming from before I replied directly to your post, because I can tell you're looking for some insight into what you've come to discover. George Stroumboulopoulos had on his show a guy named Tony Campolo who started an evangelical movement called the "Red-letter Christians." I have to admit I know nothing about the movement aside from what he said in that interview, but if you are interested in a Christian movement without all the crap, he made this sound like one to check out. (If you don't know but I'm assuming you do since your provided quotes were in red print) Red letters are reserved in the bible only for when Jesus is talking. All of his dialog is in red. Campolo teaches nothing beyond what Jesus is quoted as saying literally.

I'll look into the "Red-letter Christians". I have not heard of that movement before- I just added the red lettering because I knew that was how Jesus' words were printed- for the most part. Seems to me that I cant go wrong just listening to the words of Jesus- I cant see where most Christians would disagree with that- being that Jesus himself said not to consider anyone else rabbi or teacher, when it comes to God.
Now, I see we agree on some things so I'll respond to what we may have a bit of difference...
you said...
Quote:My previous post addresses this grievance: John 14:6 says Jesus said "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." This is a DIRECT VIOLATION of the 10 Commandments! In which it clearly states "You shall have no other gods before me." Jesus, if implicitly God, is still explicitly placed between the worshipper and God. If Jesus is just a man in agreement with God, as you suggested, it is even more damaging of a proclamation.

I have 2 thoughts on those particular verses- either he doesnt mean it- in a physical sense but more of a teacher explaining how to do something the correct way. Being that he is speaking for God- following what he says is the way to heaven- to God. --my second thought is that those were added but may never have been said by him--you see, Ive seen the similarities of those paticular "I Am" verses - to the same kind of I Am verses of that of Horus. Its possible these were added to further manipulate the image of Jesus from Messiah to Sun god.

Horus said "I am the possessor of bread in Anu. I have bread in heaven with Ra." --> Jesus said "<span style="color:#CC0000">I am the living bread that came down from heaven."
Horus said "I am Horus in glory...I am the Lord of Light...I am the victorious one...I am the heir of endless time...I, even I, am he that knoweth the paths of heaven." --> Jesus said "<span style="color:#CC0000">I am the light of the world....I am the way, the truth and the life."
Horus said "I am Horus, the Prince of Eternity." --> Jesus said "<span style="color:#CC0000">Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, and today and forever."
so I see the definate similarities between these proclamations- which differ from that of others which Jesus spoke -especially when addressing God (the father)

Quote:The only thing I will add is that Jesus' life and other aspects attributed to him contain virtual parallels to not just Horus, but also the Babylonian Nimrod, Krishna, Mithra, Osiris, Dionysus, Adonis, Tammuz, Saturn and a whole pantheon of other gods of antiquity. Nearly all of which have a connection to the sun. Equally important for this subject is the examination of the myths of Christmas, Easter, the resurrection, and how these events have previous arcanum and astrological importance. Also, the connection between Pisces and Jesus, the fisherman, among others. You are obviously aware of these similarities though, since these are what are causing the conflict with you and your faith.

right, Ive seen this as well. However, when it comes to God, I still find more validity in the preaching/teachings of Jesus more than in the summary of his life, and/or belief of Jesus as God. I do agree that their are things in the Bible that dont fit with what God wants for us...such as the words of Paul and others and Some would say --if you see that this verse or that verse doesnt add up then how can you not discount the whole thing? To this I would say these scriptures best describe why and how that is...
Matthew 13:24 <span style="color:#CC0000">Another parable he put before them, saying, "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field;
[25] but while men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away.
[26] So when the plants came up and bore grain, then the weeds appeared also.
[27] And the servants of the householder came and said to him, `Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then has it weeds?'
[28] He said to them, `An enemy has done this.' The servants said to him, `Then do you want us to go and gather them?'
[29] But he said, `No; lest in gathering the weeds you root up the wheat along with them.
[30] Let both grow together until the harvest; and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.'"

This parable is also a prophecy, that comprehends not only Paul but every false apostle who sows bad seed in the world. Christianity is always being attacked from all kinds of angles, whether its valid or agenda driven- it seems to me their is a reason for this. I believe that Jesus was the messiah, the savior sent by God to save us. If we would just pay attention to what he said for us to do- we would have our place in heaven. Maybe Im wrong, maybe Im not- in the end I'll find out.
Thanks, I appreciate your input.
"Listen to everyone, read everything, believe nothing unless you can prove it in your own research"
~William Cooper

DTTNWO!
Reply
06-21-2007, 10:21 PM,
#12
Jesus Vs. Christianity
Quote:Sorry Standvast, there is nothing for a Christian to post in regards to blasphemy in equating Jesus with the Sun. Jesus vs. Christianity. Jesus as Sun God.

No Standvast, it is not worth time and energy. The King James Bible holds the truth.

I question any and all agendas at this juncture of time to dillute, misinterpret, out-right blaspheme, and uphold any of the other known agendas for the destruction of true Christianity in the world.

If Masonic-Gnostic forces have seized control of the world and are making overt displays of their ultimate power over religious messages at this point, so be it.

Peace, out

SE

There is really no more that I can say on any topics here, as I think I have said all that I possibly can.
If what I have said does not make any sense to anyone here, there is nothing more for me to do here - at all.
Ouch. Blasphemy?- sorry, maybe you misunderstood me. I dont equate Jesus as the sun god, but some could say the KJ Bible does, in a way.
and WTF - I in no way want to be any part of destroying true Christianity in the world....unless that true Christianity is of course just your personal perseption of what "true Christianity" is. See what I think is true Christianity maybe different than what you believe true Christianity is...If following the words of Jesus Christ, and only his words, is blasphemy then youve got alot of explaining to do.

If the thread title was abit extreme- I apologize. But Im just posting my true thoughts here- it was ment to draw a response but geez...lighten up.

I realize some have a personal belief -Im not trying to impose my belief on anyone-Im just trying to apply the same reasonings i have to other hidden agendas. I see where there has been manipulations of history all over the place- why not start looking at who had a hand in our most holy of books? I have and what Ive seen- I dont like...not one bit....as well Ive seen the messages of Christ get lost even more amongst "Christians" and the question is why? I believe the answer is based on that particular deception...the fact that most Christians forget about the messages of Jesus - instead they are wrapped up in the messages of the other "apostles" and what their church leaders tell them.

P.s. thanks standvast, for true words of understanding and promoting discussion.
"Listen to everyone, read everything, believe nothing unless you can prove it in your own research"
~William Cooper

DTTNWO!
Reply
06-22-2007, 12:04 AM, (This post was last modified: 06-22-2007, 12:49 AM by SerialExpLain.)
#13
Jesus Vs. Christianity
Quote:According to Paul the way to salvation was to believe that Jesus died for our sins and that if we accepted him as God and as our savior - we would be welcome in heaven... yet in my opinion, from what I have read, and come to understand. Jesus never expected that of anyone...
The churchmen, under the influence of Paul, have misrepresented the core elements of the Truth that we have in Jesus. Most notably, the doctrine of the sacrificial, substitutionary atonement by crucifixion is far from what ive read in the words of Jesus.

Jesus died for our sins and that if we accepted him as God and as our savior - we would be welcome in heaven.

That is the basic message of The Word (KJV Bible). If you have an issue with that, that only means that you have an issue with the reason for why Jesus incarnated. If that does not make sense to you after reading the entire Bible (paraphrased perhaps - KJV the best) then say you follow another doctrine, but it isn't Christian and it is definitely not the words of Jesus Christ the Savior.

Your passages, from what Bible are they from, as it is customary to include this with your Scripture posts?

Quote:I mean besides the fact that Jesus wasnt even his real name

Look, just back away from that KJV Bible....oh, you are probably not near one, lol.
...Horus awaits you....


Quote:I do believe in his message

Not the KJV Bible one...


If you do not believe Jesus is God, just don't be a Christian....BUT don't confuse your beliefs with Christianity or the message of The Word Made Flesh.

Quote:I do see where he says he speaks for God, and that him and God are one, but I see that as- One in agreement. Not one as in one entity.(see John 17:20-23) He also says plenty of other things in the Gospels that contradict that they are one entity.

What are you talking about, lol?? If you miss the basic premise, you cannot go on from there...
There is nothing that negates this premise in those passasges. You must take the entire Bible as food wholistically to understand the nuiance and not random passages.

John 17:20-23 (King James Version)


20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

* * *






Quote:Im not trying to change anyones beliefs here - just concerned with some new revelations Ive come across- in studying some biblical verses...Especially in light of the fact that Ive come to realize the manipulation of the Bible by Secret Societies (sun worshippers)...and the exact life of the pagan sun god Horus being put in the Bible as the life of Jesus...therefore Ive come to think that the belief in jesus as God is basically a belief in the sun god-whether by ignorance or not it remains the same. If I am to believe the words of Jesus though, things change. He wants all to put their faith and trust in God - not him.

Just follow a sun-god and call it a day. That is SO different from The Word Made Flesh and the reason for Christianity.

With the Sun-God you can do all those things you need to strive for....the message of the Bible is quite different than that, hence very unsatisfactory to the Masonic influence or Zeitgeist in control of this age.

It is the Aeon of Horus...

We Christians call it the last days and the rise of the AC -- guess what, the Masons-Gnostics do too.:smirk:

Quote:This simple manipulation causes a whole shift in what actually makes you a christian.

Yes, they would like very much for Christianity to be eradicated. This is true.

Pretty artful of those Mason-Gnostics and that is a sad occurence but being a conspiracy researcher, I do know where it is coming from. :wink:


Here sare some verses that I believe directly contradict things that are taught to mainstream christians...

Yes, the certainly do and at this late hour with all the new revelations are you surprised that this information is being put forth:smirk:

From your post:
John 5:25 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me, has eternal life; he does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

John 5:25 (King James Version)

25Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.


From your post:
[26] For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself,
27] and has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of man.

KJV version
26For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

27And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Your post:
John 12:49I have not spoken on my own authority; the Father who sent me has himself given me commandment what to say and what to speak.

John 12:49 (King James Version)

49For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak


Your post:
John 8:32 If you abide in my word, you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.

John 8:32 (King James Version)

32And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Your post:
I believe this verse addresses those that say the whole Bible is the "word of God"-Jesus disagrees...
John 5:38 and you do not have his word abiding in you, for you do not believe him whom he has sent.

John 5:38 (King James Version)

38And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

Your Post:
[39] You search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness to me;
[40] yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

John 5:39-40 (King James Version)

39Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

40And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.


Your Post:
[21] "Not every one who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
[22] On that day many will say to me, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?'
[23] And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.'

KJV

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


So as you you see there are a good many deviations from an approved version of the Bible, the KJV which does radically change the meaning. What was the version of the Bible your quoted passages were from??
Reply
06-22-2007, 12:32 AM,
#14
Jesus Vs. Christianity
Quote:
Quote:According to Paul the way to salvation was to believe that Jesus died for our sins and that if we accepted him as God and as our savior - we would be welcome in heaven... yet in my opinion, from what I have read, and come to understand. Jesus never expected that of anyone...
The churchmen, under the influence of Paul, have misrepresented the core elements of the Truth that we have in Jesus. Most notably, the doctrine of the sacrificial, substitutionary atonement by crucifixion is far from what ive read in the words of Jesus.

Jesus died for our sins and that if we accepted him as God and as our savior - we would be welcome in heaven.

That is the basic message of The Word (KJV Bible). If you have an issue with that, that only means that you have an issue with the reason for why Jesus incarnated. If that does not make sense to you after reading the entire Bible (paraphrased perhaps - KJV the best) then say you follow another doctrine, but it isn't Christian and it is definitely not the words of Jesus Christ the Savior.

Your passages, from what Bible are they from, as it is customary to include this with your Scripture posts?

Quote:I mean besides the fact that Jesus wasnt even his real name

Look, just back away from that KJV Bible....oh, you are probably not near one, lol.
...Horus awaits you....


Quote:I do believe in his message

Not the KJV Bible one...


If you do not believe Jesus is God, just don't be a Christian....BUT don't confuse your beliefs with Christianity or the message of The Word Made Flesh.

Quote:I do see where he says he speaks for God, and that him and God are one, but I see that as- One in agreement. Not one as in one entity.(see John 17:20-23) He also says plenty of other things in the Gospels that contradict that they are one entity.

What are you talking about, lol??



Im not trying to change anyones beliefs here - just concerned with some new revelations Ive come across- in studying some biblical verses...Especially in light of the fact that Ive come to realize the manipulation of the Bible by Secret Societies (sun worshippers)...and the exact life of the pagan sun god Horus being put in the Bible as the life of Jesus...therefore Ive come to think that the belief in jesus as God is basically a belief in the sun god-whether by ignorance or not it remains the same. If I am to believe the words of Jesus though, things change. He wants all to put their faith and trust in God - not him.
Quote:This simple manipulation causes a whole shift in what actually makes you a christian.

Pretty artful of those Mason-Gnostics and that is a sad occurence but being a conspiracy researcher, I do know where it is coming from. :wink:






Here sare some verses that I believe directly contradict things that are taught to mainstream christians...
John 5:25 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me, has eternal life; he does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. [26] For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself,
[27] and has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of man.

John 12:49I have not spoken on my own authority; the Father who sent me has himself given me commandment what to say and what to speak.

John 8:32 If you abide in my word, you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.

I believe this verse addresses those that say the whole Bible is the "word of God"-Jesus disagrees...
John 5:38 and you do not have his word abiding in you, for you do not believe him whom he has sent.
[39] You search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness to me;
[40] yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

This is a good verse to those mainstream christians, from Jesus himself...
Matthew 7:20 Thus you will know them by their fruits.
[21] "Not every one who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
[22] On that day many will say to me, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?'
[23] And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.'








John 5:25 (King James Version)

25Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

John 12:49 (King James Version)

49For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak

John 8:32 (King James Version)

32And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

John 5:38 (King James Version)

38And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

Are you trying to confuse me? quote me or dont quote me- but Im not sure where my posts end and yours begin--pay attention to this verse you posted...

John 12:49 (King James Version)

49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak

so whats the problem? I havent seen Jesus say that he is God. can you show me this- without interpreting the verses? you missed the other part of that section in John 5:38 that is quite important and relevant to my arguement
38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
I dont question your belief- dont question mine. I could sit here and say your mislead... Im not because Im dont know that for sure. its what I think, but we can discuss it- or you can be childish-and then its no use...
"Listen to everyone, read everything, believe nothing unless you can prove it in your own research"
~William Cooper

DTTNWO!
Reply
06-22-2007, 12:53 AM, (This post was last modified: 06-22-2007, 01:15 AM by SerialExpLain.)
#15
Jesus Vs. Christianity
Hey, wasn't through editing the post.

You simply seem to want to mock true Christianity and its very difficult to have any meaningful communication because of that.

True Christianity can only be derived from the true KJV Bible. Ok? That is the basis of the religion called Christianity, because it gets totally perverted from its intended message when taken out of context.

Really want to understand Bible truths, look no further than here:

http://www.biblestudysite.com/realsin.htm

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7...h&plindex=0

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6...h&plindex=0

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=77...h&plindex=1


And the reasons why this new version of Christianity is being put forth with all the money of "the world" behind it:

http://www.cumbey.blogspot.com/


That is the perspective I am coming from. Quite a bit different when taken in that context.


I believe the above links represent the truth about Christianity and the true message of Jesus Christ and reveal what forces are distorting that message and what their agenda is and why.
Reply


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  City man moves to Hague court to seek justice for Jesus R.R 2 559 08-05-2013, 09:49 PM
Last Post: R.R
  Coptic Scholars Doubt and Hail a Reference to Jesus’ Wife h3rm35 14 1,845 09-26-2012, 12:12 AM
Last Post: h3rm35
  REVOLUTION of LIGHT and LOVE: JESUS CHRIST and MARY are Revolutionaries Solve et Coagula 0 603 04-22-2012, 06:57 PM
Last Post: Solve et Coagula
  Christianity & Reincarnation: Who Invented The "One-Life" Belief Anyway? Solve et Coagula 0 460 02-25-2012, 01:16 PM
Last Post: Solve et Coagula
  Did Jesus Visit India? Solve et Coagula 0 416 02-01-2012, 04:27 PM
Last Post: Solve et Coagula
  Esoteric Christ vs Exoteric Christianity: True Religion of Christ vs Churchianity Solve et Coagula 1 534 01-16-2012, 07:46 AM
Last Post: tahuti
  Esoteric Christianity vs Exoteric Christianity: True Religion of Christ vs Churchiani Solve et Coagula 5 1,079 11-06-2011, 04:02 PM
Last Post: hardline
  Jews want to destroy the Christianity Plutarcus 38 7,224 10-20-2011, 02:50 AM
Last Post: Dunamis
  Jesus Is Biggest Hoax Ever. hardboiled11 157 22,285 08-20-2011, 12:41 AM
Last Post: Dunamis
  Muslim View of Jesus. rockingtheboat 0 445 06-05-2011, 05:38 PM
Last Post: rockingtheboat

Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)