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Why is weed not being legalized?
09-05-2007, 08:12 AM, (This post was last modified: 09-05-2007, 08:13 AM by SerialExpLain.)
Why is weed not being legalized?

Great stuff thanks. After reading alot of Casteneda and MacKenna I spent a few years communing with some entheogens such as brugmansia, aconite (rubs---too potentially deadly to advise), datura (seeds), belladona (seeds), and morning glory (seeds), and homemade absinthe and wormwood smoke.

I just loved the plants and gardening, every plant has such a unique story to gift you with if you commune with them.

10 grams of morning glory seeds (take some dramamine 20 mins before) was wonderful. I loved to go down to this waterfall in a park and do amazing artwork, that was done in a trancendental-automatic fashion and were the more free, best pieces I ever did, subtle detail, depth proportion....but I just let go and let it occur on its own on these.

Aconite (plant leaf) - While at the local garden supply that had a diverse stock of aconite, I picked up some plants, and just couldn't even wait to get home to rub a bit on. It was very hot and humid and with open pores after about 20 mins, I started feeling something that in some sense was the most profound "experience with a plant" for me, because this particular plant really does separate something at your core; I can see why they used it to simulate flight....oh yes, but I also think that is how it can kill you too, it is a really weird sensation, very profound and powerful a plant. (Potentially Deadly)

Brugmansia - not so good, probably just didn't have a proper varient. Unpleasantly stuporous and blurred vision for 24 hours. Not so good.

Belladona seeds - Really amazing. The kind of thing you curl up in a dark room for as the visions were almost sepia colored and it was like a time-travel experience with rapid sequencing of ancient feeling visions and maybe memories? An alkaloid componet in them does cause a retrograde amnesia, so you cannot precisely account for what happened after it is over though. Just vague rememberance. But, it certainly isn't that way at the time.

Datura seeds - Similar to belladona (similar alkaloid); however, the visions and quality of the experience had a totally different feel to it. Again, when it was over, it was over due to the retrograde amenesia cause by the alkaloids.

I love the seditive affects of some good absinthe. It is very special. Wormwood, is mild as a smoke but pleasant.

Shrooms, mescaline, LSD....all marvelous experiences. I was very glad that I had. I really think LSD creates new neural pathways and everyone I have ever spoken to who was experienced agreed that they were forever an altered beast, in the best sense of the word, after dosing, so in that sense I would say LSD is in a class of its own.

Never partook of peyote or ahuyasca, missed out there.
09-05-2007, 01:05 PM,
Why is weed not being legalized?
Thanks for sharing your experiences SE...

It seems like cannabis was the only allie you have not listed.... I have also experimental and worked with many power plants and chemicals, but I believe each warrior has his or her allies who we developed a "relationship" with and continue to rely on. Cannabis and Mushrooms have been allies through my adult life, and Salvia also at times. Even psychoactives like tobacco and coffee can be allies (for the masses), though not mine. The concept of plant allies is an interesting subject... Perhaps you've read McKenna's Food of The Gods, it makes an excellent case for explaining our historical relationship with psychoactive plants.

I believe the reason that cannabis is not usually classified as a "power plant" is because it is not considered as potent as some of the others you mentioned. But that is based on toxicology... in truth, it is a powerful psychoactive, medicine and entheogen when used in the proper method. However, in the context of legalization, its entheogenic powers are considered esoteric when compared to its commonly known industrial and medical uses... and anyone can use it with little danger. This makes cannabis more humanities ally than any one shamans. Ironically, even though its less powerful psychoactive than acid, mushrooms and DMT, its still schedule 1... classified as the most harmful drug on earth by the US government... Perhaps its "harmlessness" is the biggest threat to the authority system.

09-05-2007, 03:52 PM,
Why is weed not being legalized?
Chris: Yeah, love the herb, and it was interesting because I didn't even think to include it, because it is no where near as strong as the others. But in the 70s, there was a lot of supposed THC around, I have a feeling it was probably ketamine though as it was a bootleg production.

Forgot to mention, morning glory seeds are LSA not LSD and the A is a seditive so all is smooth, float down like a feather. It is nowhere near as strong as LSD.
09-05-2007, 06:19 PM, (This post was last modified: 09-05-2007, 06:32 PM by ephilution.)
Why is weed not being legalized?
Quote:and great thread Phil. you are of course absolutely correct that cannabis is foundationally counterproductive when trying to instill the motivation required to drive the capitalist system. but the threat is much greater than that. certainly much of the thinking behind it's prohibition in 1937 was that cannabis was more likely to make people question and less likely to make them fight. but the real funders of cannabis prohibition were people like Du Pont and Standard Oil - corporations whose petro-chemical fibres and other petroleum based products could not compete with the value and versatility of hemp. 90% of all rope was hemp, canvas i believe is the Dutch for cannabis (it's certainly what it was made from), Henry Ford had just developed a plastic, way tougher than any petro-chemical alternative and Diesel developed his engine to run on hemp oil. the list goes on but perhaps more importantly than all was the settlers' new exchange mechanism based on hemp that had done so much to undermine Sterling.
Yes you're right I forgot about the DuPont connection. Weed was a thorn in the eye of them in particular as well. Weed is a tremendous competitor for plastic and no doubt was a a strong reason for prohibition.

Thanks for reminding me moth&rust.

Canvas as a Dutch word means sailcloth or painting cloth. Cannabis ENG = Cannabis NL. :biggrin:
General Brainquirks:

Mind control imbued by movies:

Movers and Shakers of the SMOM:http://moversandshakersofthesmom.blogspot...identity.html
09-06-2007, 03:25 AM,
Why is weed not being legalized?
Chris, thanks for the response - you've got my thoughts working in a whole number of directions - i think we are like minded with regard to our more esoteric/metaphysical relationship with cannabis. will write more over the next day or so - but i really must get my thoughts into some sort of coherent shape beforehand.

Cheers Phil :biggrin:

has anyone /everyone read 'Cannabis, a history', by Martin Boothe? It gives a great insight, although i suspect it only scratches the surface of our real relationship.
Vitam Impendere Vero
09-06-2007, 03:52 AM,
Why is weed not being legalized?
Quote:Chris, thanks for the response - you've got my thoughts working in a whole number of directions - i think we are like minded with regard to our more esoteric/metaphysical relationship with cannabis. will write more over the next day or so - but i really must get my thoughts into some sort of coherent shape beforehand.
Take yer time man, I'm not going anywhere... :biggrin: -C
09-06-2007, 05:00 AM,
Why is weed not being legalized?
now anything tetra and hydro sounds like another secret to be hogged.

~Angels for Potheads~

JWH-133 (?) Neuroprotection Mediated by Blockade of Microglial Activation
Cannabinoids exert neuroprotection under different experimental conditions. Thus, cannabinoid receptor activation protects hippocampal or granule cerebellar neurons from excitotoxicity (Skaper et al., 1996Go; Shen and Thayer, 1998Go; Hampson and Grimaldi, 2001Go) and from hypoxia and glucose deprivation (Nagayama et al., 1999Go). In vivo, cannabinoids decrease hippocampal neuronal loss and infarct volume after cerebral ischemia (Nagayama et al., 1999Go), acute brain trauma (Panikashvili et al., 2001Go), and ouabain-induced excitotoxicity (van der Stelt et al., 2001Go). These effects have been ascribed to inhibition of glutamate transmission, reduction of calcium influx, and subsequent inhibition of noxious cascades, such as tumor necrosis factor-{alpha} (TNF-{alpha}) generation and oxidative stress.
09-07-2007, 12:46 AM,
Why is weed not being legalized?
Quote:I see nothing wrong with natural untouched cannabis
nor do I see anything wrong with natural untouched alcohol

I see something very wrong when it comes to the chemical aspect of them both though.

I'm afraid im one of those people who cant have one without the other lol
I like a smoke I like a drink Mmmmore for me :-)


was just trying to show the multiple properties of cannabis "untouched" or synthetic since it is an extremely complex compound which is far from being understood. analysing und understanding different properties under lab conditions may proove useful and silence the weedbashers a bit. I am sure it is psychologically quite testing to enjoy weed in a society which mostly demonizes it.

your comment has a weird "i am so pure" attitude whereas I have never ever met anybody who does synthetic cannabis or seriously craves for it . I see something very wrong with your ego :yawn:and you are a wee bit off topic
09-07-2007, 12:59 AM,
Why is weed not being legalized?
Quote:nor do I see anything wrong with natural untouched alcohol
there is no such thing - except it is natural for all living matter to decompose.

alcohol is created as fungus (yeast) eats away at fruit sugars. i.e. as fruit rots. is that what you mean by natural alcohol? or do you mean the sort where they artificially create this effect with refined sugar?
Vitam Impendere Vero
09-10-2007, 03:55 AM,
Why is weed not being legalized?
Quote:nor do I see anything wrong with natural untouched alcohol
there is no such thing - except it is natural for all living matter to decompose.

alcohol is created as fungus (yeast) eats away at fruit sugars. i.e. as fruit rots. is that what you mean by natural alcohol? or do you mean the sort where they artificially create this effect with refined sugar?

That makes sense. If one grows cannabis, or it has grown free (where did that happen naturally btw... Central Asia, and anywhere else?).. chemical-less is definitely better for you and everything really.

I would disagree that alcohol is on par with cannabis for it's benefits. I personally feel quite mentally retarded when I drink too much. That is why I think the liquor stores are on every corner, especially in oppressed areas... it stops people from thinking, that is why it is legal, and cannabis isn't.

I'm enjoying listening to all this...
09-20-2007, 05:55 AM,
Why is weed not being legalized?
How come we stopped talking about this? I enjoyed your stories Chris Carota btw.

A few days ago I picked a wild mushroom that I'd never eaten before (Cauliflower mushroom), but I knew it by identification and that it was edible, so I took it home and made an omlete out of it. The weirdest thing was, very shortly after I ate it, I felt a eurphoria, calmness and buzzing...

What is this buzzing I asked myself? Fear and pleasure at the same time. I think many things are revealed to people in these states, even in mild doses... that is why drugs are explored to begin with, fear of the unknown and the excitement of a new expirience. When I was very young, I had a very eye opening lsd "trip" where I had a quarrel with myself, everything went white, I envisioned a bad dream that I was in the hospital, the doctors were trying to give me needles, the authority was there, I submitted, went past reality, died and became everything... then everything phazed into white again, I woke up in my bad dream, in the hospital, with the doctors, and police, and everything came back into "reality" which I didn't believe was real for a while after. That expirience was so complex, and what I described, very accutely, was a profound expirience, most people have had these and after they come out of it, they learn something new about themselves. I agree that we shouldn't be held back from new expiriences. Why are we being dished the same kind of expiriences over and over and submit to them.

Have you ever actually watched people? I like sitting and watching people go on about their day. It's so weird how everyone has these weird clothes and same walk and serious look, same hi, how are you'

That's what happens when you don't look more deeply in life, drugs help you to do that, a drugless world keeps people hinged, the same, obedient and agreeable. I think we've summized why pot isn't being legalized... but I'm still interested in drug related expiriences... even from food, or whatever not classified as a drug.

Does anyone have any stories?
09-20-2007, 04:40 PM,
Why is weed not being legalized?
It's not popular enough, so it's not legal.

Nevermind society trying to make you a better worker, you yourself may want to be a better worker after all we all work for ourselves.

Stoned out of my head in a job interview I might find the whole thing a lot more amusing but am I really at my best? No I am not.

If I am very stoned and the person I am talking to is not it often causes problems with communication that I overlook and they don't. e.g. My mum phones me "you're not stoned are you?" says my mother. "yes I am actually, i got this really nice bud i been smoking" "well I've got something important to ask you, when's a good time to catch you straight?" "errrr... well thats a tough question..." "how about I call you tomorrow before 6pm" "cool idea mum, nice one!". This phonecall would not have been a problem if she was stoned or I was not and now I have to put up with her calling me again. She is not stupid enough to believe I will call her when I am straight.

Don't get me wrong I love weed, it makes otherwise boring things and people seem fun. It's annoying that it's fat soluable and I have to wait more than a month to for a reminder of what being straight is like.

Far from granting me great insight, which it has on occasion, it often makes a mess of understanding complex issues.

Doing self-hypnosis, etc. it makes it hard to work out whether I am responding to the suggestions or the drugs.

A friend who's a psychotherapist told me that SAD (seasonal affective disorder) is good for business because it gets people to deal with the problems they can otherwise ignore - it makes them notice the limp. Weed is like sunshine, it doesn't fix your problems but makes you care less about them.

And if you've noticed you're already a bit nuts in the schizoid sense then don't smoke weed especially stuff with high THC content, just don't. I have an idiot friend who is sectioned now and this is partly why. Wanna see him have a psychotic episode? Give him a spliff.

I love weed but I can't stand people banging on about how great it is as if there is nothing wrong with it.

Now wheres my bud gone?

09-20-2007, 08:39 PM,
Why is weed not being legalized?
When you said: "it's not popular enough, that's why it's not legal"... I don't agree at all.

It's true that weed affects people differently.

I think the more you don't know yourself, the more paranoid you become... and the more intense delusions that happen to you... the more you need to be taught something, especially when you expiriament with more potent drugs.
09-20-2007, 10:06 PM,
Why is weed not being legalized?
We disagree that popularity is the basis for acceptance by society. No problem.

Interesting that you relate a lack of self knowledge to paranoia. I'm told freud's original definition for paranoid is "person who thinks he's gay". I think he's implying that the person is not gay but scares themself with the idea that he is.

I can imagine from my own experiences with "more potent drugs" that one can learn stuff in a profound way using them. What I classify as insanity and sanity would seem to be learnt. A learning experience is only good when it's good. Learning stupid stuff makes you stupid and learning clever stuff makes you clever.

Most people I know do these drugs with the same level of reverance as going to the cinema.

A friend that did an amazing amount acid told me once that "If your mind is like a big house that you spend your life building acid knocks some of the bricks out for a while. You hope the bricks go back where they were when you come down but you have no way of telling whether they have or not. Sometimes your house is improved by the experience but sometimes you need to get a professional builder in to sort out the mess you made". This guy does trips in multiples of 10, last I heard he maxed out at 120 in 3 days and he's never needed a builder. I think he's lucky he's not a gibbering wreck.
09-21-2007, 02:45 AM,
Why is weed not being legalized?
Well, on the issue of why some drugs aren't legal, McKenna nailed that on the head a long time ago. It has to do with the value system of the society and how those drugs relate to our value system.

The only drugs we're allowed are caffeine, nicotine, and alcohol. That's because these are relatively weak drugs, or at least are through their common delivery mediums, and need to be consumed often at generally highly inflated prices. Furthermore, because of how particularly depraved the United States is, prohibition makes them tons more money, especially with weed, because any idiot can grow a weed.

As far as using drugs for expanding your mind, really the only requirement is having an open one. I've never had a bad trip. Besides a long history of smoking weed I've also smoked salvia, opium and crack and done shrooms, lsa, lsd, pcp, ghb, dxm, nose candy, e, ketamine, quaaludes, and a whole world of prescription painkillers like oxy, percocet, vicodin etc. as well as prescription mood elevators like ativan, valium, xanax, etc. In all of this experience, most I'd never do again though I've never had a bad time on any of them. In addition I'd still like to try tripping on mescaline/peyote and DMT/ayahuasca.

I don't recommend anyone do a shitload of drugs. Many of these drugs are incredibly seductive. I particularly advise against consuming drugs that bomb your seratonin levels, aka "pleasure-inducing" drugs. These get harder to play around with and are dangerous. Smoking crack was stupid, but it helped me realize how dangerous they can be before I fucked around with meth or heroin. Something most people don't just walk away from.

I think even smoking weed for expanding consciousness isn't right for everyone, and weed is whole orders of magnitude safer than some of what I've listed. I think most people are not in control enough of their own psyche and the results can be unpredictable to/for them. I think people don't make sure they are in a safe and secluded environment when they do experiment either. There is no reason to end up in the hospital or jail if people experiment with light doses before full ones.

But most importantly, drugs don't give profound insights into the world and they don't cause an expansion of consciousness. Sometimes they can be really useful for breaking down mental constructs that can be then seen to violate personal experience. Sometimes they help to actualize and demonstrate theories that have been metastasizing in your head. But only if you've laid the groundwork in your own meditation.

Just partying doesn't expand anything but your waistline.
&We grow to recognize form. We grow to label that form. In doing so, do we become more intelligent? Do we become more awakened?& - Siji Tzu 四季子

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