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Some questions about the 9-11 conspiracy
10-24-2007, 10:36 AM, (This post was last modified: 10-24-2007, 10:57 AM by Manticore.)
#1
Some questions about the 9-11 conspiracy
I have some questions about the supposed 9-11 conspiracy. I hope this time my mouth won’t get locked. I’ve decided not to put all my questions all at once, but just one by one. The subject now is about the 4000 Jews missing at their work on 0911. Let’s go.

It is been said that on the day of the attack 4000 Jews were not at their work in the WTC-buildings. I put this line ‘911 4000 Jews not at their work’ in Google and I got 462.000 hits. So this is very popular among conspiracy believers.

The idea is that the mossad, Israel’s secret service, has warned 4000 Jews to stay away on 911. Well this gave me some thoughts. These 4000 Jews must have a great discipline. No one till so far has opened his mouth.

How could the Mossad could thrust on this?

Where does the precise figure of 4000 Jews come from? How you know it weren’t 3000 or 5000?

How did the Mossad approach these 4000 people? By telephone, email, letters, or something else?

Also I wonder when the first of these 4000 Jews were informed. In my simple view the first ones must have known it weeks ahead. That’s a great risk and puts the whole operation at danger. Why did the Mossad care for them and not sacrifice them for the ‘good cause’?

This was my first question.
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10-24-2007, 11:40 AM,
#2
Some questions about the 9-11 conspiracy
What happened is this, the Jerusalem Post reported: "The Foreign Ministry in Jerusalem has so far received the names of 4,000 Israelis believed to have been in the areas of the World Trade Center and the Pentagon at the time of the attack." But only 1 Israeli, who was just visiting the World Trade Center & was not an employee reportedly, is confirmed to have died in the towers. & it was reported in H'aaretz that according to the CEO of an instant messaging company 2 of his employees reported getting warnings about the attack 2 hours before it happened (which predicted it up to the minute I've heard & I think that fact is verifiable as well). Odigo has a service called "people finder" which would allow a user to send a message to mass amounts of people by characteristic, most likely in this case all Israelis. So 4,000 Israelis were believed to have been in the area of the WTC & the Pentagon at the time according to the foreign ministry & only 1 Israeli died. Take the Odigo warning issue into consideration, as well as the fact that this parallels the foreknowledge the 5 Mossad agents working for a phony moving company called Urban Moving Systems displayed when they were set up to film the attack before the first plane hit according to the New York Times. Use deductive reasoning & the pieces put themselves together, the only conclusion that's possible is that all Israelis who were employees in the WTC received warnings of the attack & left beforehand, & none of them alerted any authority besides the 2 that reported the Odigo warning after the attack happened. 100s of Jews reportedly did die in the towers by the way so I assume they weren't Israeli citizens. The establishment spins the story from it being Israelis to just Jews in order to discredit it & make it appear 'anti-semetic' such as in the Paula Zahn hit piece. & rather than helping us expose it the mainline 9/11 truth movement stays away from it completely for the most part and often claims it was some planted disinfo thing by the establishment & that there's no truth to it at all. But the facts are what I've written. I think the matter is a huge deal & that people should talk about it & just be specific & accurate when they do. So many people either deny all Zionist involvement, not only in 9/11 but in anything that happens in the world, & many others take the bait & do come off biggoted & are totally discredited by that & I think this is a major contributing factor of why the world's in the shape it's in.
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10-24-2007, 11:45 AM,
#3
Some questions about the 9-11 conspiracy
About your question why would the Mossad care to warn them, my opinion would be you should look into the state of Israel & Zionism a little deeper. There's something called the "Sayanim" network that's pretty interesting, even Victor Otrowski a former Mossad agent has written about it. It's an extended citizens network of Zionists that assist the Mossad, like a huge subdivision infiltrated in all areas of society. It's all about serving the Zionist cause in my guess & their philosophy. Which is really supremacist & biggotted as well as violent & which is why it's best to expose it as such rather than attack the entire race which is actually what the Zionists want us to do so they can cry anti-semetism & continue with their crimes against humanity.
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10-24-2007, 08:40 PM,
#4
Some questions about the 9-11 conspiracy
Let me repeat what was said, in a nutshell: it's not the movement suggesting that thousands of Israelis were warned by Odigo, it's a Jerusalem newspaper that reported this. You are asking the wrong question to the wrong people.
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10-24-2007, 10:51 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-24-2007, 10:52 PM by LeveL.)
#5
Some questions about the 9-11 conspiracy
Quote:It is been said that on the day of the attack 4000 Jews were not at their work in the WTC-buildings. I put this line ‘911 4000 Jews not at their work’ in Google and I got 462.000 hits. So this is very popular among conspiracy believers.

If you put that in double quotes its popular, if not then... no. The words "911" and "4000" and "Jews" and "not" and "at" and "their" and "work" could be scattered anywhere in the document.

It could easily say "The woman rang 911 but got no reply... the man ate 4000 calories per day... Jews celebrate at the wailing wall... Dutch President says the new deal could work" you see, all of which is nothing to do with "911 4000 Jews not at their work"

Quote:The idea is that the mossad, Israel’s secret service,

How can it be a secret service if we know its called Mossad?

Not trying to argue m8, honestly, but their secret service isn't Mossad - its Zionists.

Quote:The idea is that the mossad, Israel’s secret service, has warned 4000 Jews to stay away on 911. Well this gave me some thoughts. These 4000 Jews must have a great discipline. No one till so far has opened his mouth.

Those towers were at what, 15% of the capacity they are normally at on 911... arn't 20,000 workers supposed to have worked in EACH tower = 40,000 people and thus, 3000 people dying is one hell of a lot lower than the 40,000 that could have been in the towers. The remainder - 37,000 people, were all "off work" that day, if this includes 4000 Jewish people, I don't really understand why this should even mean anything since after those 4000 Jews theres still another 33,000 people missing, all non-Jews!

I think this is just a typical disinfo trick so labels of "anti-Semite" can easily be hurled at real researchers. Look at the Penn and Teller hit piece - that is a perfect example where they bring this "4000 Jews" thing into it... erm, why? Why don't they focus on how building seven came down and so on... because thats the reality of it you see, its easier to just fabricate stuff about "4000 Jews" and then play the anti-Semite card on people who have never even bothered with this "4000 Jews" aspect of it.

Like you say, none of the 4000 Jews have come out and claimed they were told not to go into work.

I don't believe this for a second, plus, theres far bigger smoking guns that ARE really smoking guns with proof, like the Larry Silverstein "pull it" clip.

If you want to point your finger at Jews - then at least lets start with a Jewish man we know is a CRIMINAL, Larry Silverstein. Why is he a criminal... well, watch the "pull it" clip and right there he just comes out with it, that they had to pull building seven. Then he refuses to even answer questions and we get HIS minions claiming he meant pull the firefighters out! They think we were born yesterday, but alas, the disinfo is repeated so much over and over enough times and people believe it.

Quote:Also I wonder when the first of these 4000 Jews were informed. In my simple view the first ones must have known it weeks ahead. That’s a great risk and puts the whole operation at danger. Why did the Mossad care for them and not sacrifice them for the ‘good cause’?

I can't answer this question but here's my question to you... what makes you think Mossad gives a crap about the people of Israel or Jewish people in the USA? Why would they? The CIA doesn't care about the American people, MI6 doesn't care about the people of the UK, so why would Mossad care about 4000 Jews and warn them?
&Everybody thinks everybody else thinks on their level& - LeveL
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10-24-2007, 11:52 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-25-2007, 12:48 AM by Manticore.)
#6
Some questions about the 9-11 conspiracy
Hello Infinite, I’ve been reading your answers several times. Maybe it’s because of my lack of understanding English, I’m Dutch, but I’m not satisfied with it.

Quote:What happened is this, the Jerusalem Post reported: "The Foreign Ministry in Jerusalem has so far received the names of 4,000 Israelis believed to have been in the areas of the World Trade Center and the Pentagon at the time of the attack."

I believe it was Syria's government-owned Al Thawra newspaper that’s made the first "4000 Jews" claim. In its September 15th edition. What do you exactly mean by areas? You later on use that word many times…

By the way, do you generally see the Jerusalem Post as a trustworthy newspaper? I use that to.

Quote:The Syrian defense minister Mustafa Tlass also blames the attacks on Israel:
"At a meeting in Damascus last week with a delegation from the British Royal College of Defense Studies, Tlass said the Mossad planned the ramming of two hijacked airliners into the WTC's towers as part of a Jewish conspiracy. He also told the British visitors that the Mossad had given thousands of Jewish employees of the WTC advance warning not to go to work that day." ("Syrian defense minister blames WTC, Pentagon attacks on Israel" (Arieh O'Sullivan, The Jerusalem Post, 2001/10/19))

This is a strange situation. Conspiracy-believers and many other anti-Israel say Israel did it while Israels biggest enemies take full responsibility. If it’s true the Israelis are the perpetrators why OBL took the blame? Why did OBL blew the chance of a lifetime to make sure America’s friendship with Israel was over? Without America on their side Israel (the one who could lose the most) is much easier to be destroyed. Even the American would agree! The crazy thing is that OBL is in the Arab-Islamic-world (the ones who could benefit most) one of the most supported Muslims. Many see him as their ultimate leader. Are they really that stupid?

The full English transcript of Usama bin Ladin's speech in a videotape sent to Aljazeera. http://english.aljazeera.net/English/archi...?ArchiveId=7403

The situation gets even stranger when you come to think of the denial, and 'want proof' demand, out of the same Arab-Islamic-world. They want proof Osama did it. He confessed, and they still scream for proof…

Quote:But only 1 Israeli, who was just visiting the World Trade Center & was not an employee reportedly, is confirmed to have died in the towers. & it was reported in H'aaretz that according to the CEO of an instant messaging company 2 of his employees reported getting warnings about the attack 2 hours before it happened (which predicted it up to the minute I've heard & I think that fact is verifiable as well).

If I were the israelish I would have put thousands of (false) passports and things of (dead) Israeli or Jews in there just to make it look like many of them had died. So there couldn’t be any suspicion. If you can organise such huge conspiracy you won’t be so dumb to overlook such detail. In my opinion this dumbness is a red line throughout the whole conspiracy theory. If the conspiracy believers are right, this job is extremely lousy done. Full of mistakes even you and I notice. No eye for detail at all. Just stupidity after stupidity. And this is an organisation known as one of the best, if not the best, in the world. Can you dig that?

I wouldn’t risk of blowing up this whole thing by warning people. Not even one, leave alone 4000 people. If my fellow Jews were so important to me, and I’m a psychopath anyway, I would chose a different object. In a country like America there must be lots of alternatives that can serve the same objective…

Quote:Odigo has a service called "people finder" which would allow a user to send a message to mass amounts of people by characteristic, most likely in this case all Israelis.

Is that a device that leaves no traces like letters telephone or email?

Quote:Use deductive reasoning & the pieces put themselves together, the only conclusion that's possible is that all Israelis who were employees in the WTC received warnings of the attack & left beforehand, & none of them alerted any authority besides the 2 that reported the Odigo warning after the attack happened.

I’ve done that and came to a whole different conclusion. Take this in consideration to. If the 4000 knew (and of course still know) infront that the greatest crime in human history was about to happen that makes them accomplice if they didn’t warn or inform others or the authorities. I would be aware of that. This a big weight on the conscience of 4000 people. If a simple person can think of this, there for sure must be a Mossadman to see that risk. By the way, these 4000 are still quiet, all of them!

Quote:I think the matter is a huge deal & that people should talk about it & just be specific & accurate when they do. So many people either deny all Zionist involvement, not only in 9/11 but in anything that happens in the world, & many others take the bait & do come off biggoted & are totally discredited by that & I think this is a major contributing factor of why the world's in the shape it's in.

I to think the matter is a huge deal& that people should talk about it & just be specific & accurate when they do. So many people either accuse all Zionist involvement, not only in 9/11 but in anything that happens in the world, & many others take the bait & do come off biggoted & are totally discredited by that & I think this is a major contributing factor of why the world's in the shape it's in.
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10-25-2007, 01:18 AM,
#7
Some questions about the 9-11 conspiracy
Quote:Why don't they focus on how building seven came down and so on...

Yeah, that’s where I have questions about to. But lets first deal with the 4000 warned people subject.
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10-25-2007, 09:30 AM,
#8
Some questions about the 9-11 conspiracy
[quote name='Manticore' date='Oct 24 2007, 06:52 PM' post='104239']
Hello Infinite, I’ve been reading your answers several times. Maybe it’s because of my lack of understanding English, I’m Dutch, but I’m not satisfied with it.

- Seems like you're more not dissatisfied with the fact of it perhaps due to your world view than anything do to a problem of translation

[quote name='Infinite' post='104149' date='Oct 24 2007, 10:40 AM'] What happened is this, the Jerusalem Post reported: "The Foreign Ministry in Jerusalem has so far received the names of 4,000 Israelis believed to have been in the areas of the World Trade Center and the Pentagon at the time of the attack." [/quote]

I believe it was Syria's government-owned Al Thawra newspaper that’s made the first "4000 Jews" claim. In its September 15th edition. What do you exactly mean by areas? You later on use that word many times…

- It wasn't just Jews it was Israelis & the first mention of it was in the Jerusalem Post article. I don't know what they meant about "area" but I do know that the fact that there was a warning in advance via Odigo im service that was reported by 2 Israelis after the fact & reported in H'aaretz & that there is only 1 Israeli, who was not an employee & was only visiting the WTC, that's confirmed to have died. I assume 4000 was just an estimation. Whether there was supposed to have been 4000 in the buildings or not it's thought that there would have been a lot more than none that died in the attack save one guy who was visiting had it not been for interferring circumstances, & we have the probable explanation for that in the admitted warning via Odigo

By the way, do you generally see the Jerusalem Post as a trustworthy newspaper? I use that to.

- Any admissions such as this that come out in mainstream sources I take seriously, espescially this one since it's from an Israeli publication itself that would have no benefit in lying about it unlike an Arab publication or something.

Quote: The Syrian defense minister Mustafa Tlass also blames the attacks on Israel:
"At a meeting in Damascus last week with a delegation from the British Royal College of Defense Studies, Tlass said the Mossad planned the ramming of two hijacked airliners into the WTC's towers as part of a Jewish conspiracy. He also told the British visitors that the Mossad had given thousands of Jewish employees of the WTC advance warning not to go to work that day." ("Syrian defense minister blames WTC, Pentagon attacks on Israel" (Arieh O'Sullivan, The Jerusalem Post, 2001/10/19))

- Yes this is what Israel apologists & conspiracy deniers often try to do, switch the focus from the Jerusalem Post report estimating 4000 or the H'aaretz report about the Odigo warning & instead focus on Arabic sourced reports about the Israeli reports which include speculation. It's a great way to make it look like this is some Muslim extremist-sourced conspiracy theory rather than a logical theory based on reports from mainstream & Israeli sources.

This is a strange situation. Conspiracy-believers and many other anti-Israel say Israel did it while Israels biggest enemies take full responsibility. If it’s true the Israelis are the perpetrators why OBL took the blame?

- Right after 9/11 Osama Bin Laden issued a statement denying involvement in 9/11 & blaming it on Zionists. Then later a mysterious video came out which you refer to which is known as the confession video. However there has been much speculation that the video was doctored from video experts & people who have been following & documenting Osama Bin Laden before 9/11 & the FBI itself does not have involvement in 9/11 listed on Osama's most wanted profile & when asked why this is by a site called the Muckraker Report a representative of the FBI said "because we have no hard evidence linking Bin Laden to 9/11"

Why did OBL blew the chance of a lifetime to make sure America’s friendship with Israel was over? Without America on their side Israel (the one who could lose the most) is much easier to be destroyed. Even the American would agree! The crazy thing is that OBL is in the Arab-Islamic-world (the ones who could benefit most) one of the most supported Muslims. Many see him as their ultimate leader. Are they really that stupid?

- Yeah they are stupid, anyone who supports Osama Bin Laden & "Al-Queda" are what's known as "useful idiots". They buy into the propaganda & enable the powers that be in Israel & the west to take advantage of that & scare all their citizens with it so that we support invasions & attacks on Muslim/Arab countries. If you'd done any research on the topic you'd know that Osama Bin Laden was a CIA asset in the 80's & there's reason to suspect that he may have stayed one until his death in late 2001 (the government & mainstream media still pretend he's alive & release videos of lookalikes pretending to be him to further scare people into supporting war & loss of freedom in protection of terrorism) It's a dubious situation with Osama, his family is Saudi royalty & is tied in very closely with the Bushes through their buisness deals in the Carlye Group.

The full English transcript of Usama bin Ladin's speech in a videotape sent to Aljazeera. http://english.aljazeera.net/English/archi...?ArchiveId=7403

- Here's Bin Laden's interview right after 9/11: http://www.public-action.com/911/oblintrv.html Here's the FBI saying they have no hard evidence linking him to 9/11: http://www.teamliberty.net/id267.html Here's an expert saying that the tape is fake: http://www.911blogger.com/node/6317. However even if Bin Laden was involved it means little. There's tons of evidence of insider & Israeli involvement. I think he served as a willing boogieman for years personally. As investigator Bill Cooper pointed out before 9/11 (when he predicted that exactly what happened would happen a few months before it did) how could CNN have been doing interviews with the guy & yet intelligence agencies such as the CIA & Mossad couldn't find him? The whole thing is silly.

The situation gets even stranger when you come to think of the denial, and 'want proof' demand, out of the same Arab-Islamic-world. They want proof Osama did it. He confessed, and they still scream for proof…

- See my comments above

[quote name='Infinite' post='104149' date='Oct 24 2007, 10:40 AM'] But only 1 Israeli, who was just visiting the World Trade Center & was not an employee reportedly, is confirmed to have died in the towers. & it was reported in H'aaretz that according to the CEO of an instant messaging company 2 of his employees reported getting warnings about the attack 2 hours before it happened (which predicted it up to the minute I've heard & I think that fact is verifiable as well). [/quote]

If I were the israelish I would have put thousands of (false) passports and things of (dead) Israeli or Jews in there just to make it look like many of them had died. So there couldn’t be any suspicion. If you can organise such huge conspiracy you won’t be so dumb to overlook such detail. In my opinion this dumbness is a red line throughout the whole conspiracy theory. If the conspiracy believers are right, this job is extremely lousy done. Full of mistakes even you and I notice. No eye for detail at all. Just stupidity after stupidity. And this is an organisation known as one of the best, if not the best, in the world. Can you dig that?

- Regardless of what you think they would do, what they did do is evident & the fact is that for the most part they got away with it, at least as of now. Intelligence agencies often leave evidence of stuff when they do these things but for the most part no one notices or cares & if they do others will try to rationalize it as you're doing. For example JFK got his head blown off publically from shots coming in a direction opposite to where Oswald was claimed to have been & yet the powers that be got away with it. Most people don't investigate stuff, & if they do their finds are attacked as conspiracy theory rather than what it is - information. Today there is a recorded confession from E. Howard Hunt, a CIA agent who was involved in the Kennedy assassination admitting to it & naming some of the other people involved & yet somehow the official story still stands, at least in the mainstream media.

I wouldn’t risk of blowing up this whole thing by warning people. Not even one, leave alone 4000 people. If my fellow Jews were so important to me, and I’m a psychopath anyway, I would chose a different object. In a country like America there must be lots of alternatives that can serve the same objective…

- Once again woulda, coulda, shoulda doesn't matter too much in competition with the actual recorded evidence. However if you follow the Zionism issue & no how cocky the Zionists & the Israelis are it's not that suprising. They can always scream anti-semite & pass more hate crimes laws to stop people form talking about it & a lot of people will agree with that. Most people don't even know that Palestine is under an illegal military occupation & are oblivious to what's going on over there or the situation of the Israel lobby controlling the U.S. government, etc.

[quote name='Infinite' post='104149' date='Oct 24 2007, 10:40 AM'] Odigo has a service called "people finder" which would allow a user to send a message to mass amounts of people by characteristic, most likely in this case all Israelis. [/quote]

Is that a device that leaves no traces like letters telephone or email?

- I don't even understand this question. The Odigo warning was admitted by 2 Israelis & acknowledged by the CEO of the company in H'aaretz.

Quote: Use deductive reasoning & the pieces put themselves together, the only conclusion that's possible is that all Israelis who were employees in the WTC received warnings of the attack & left beforehand, & none of them alerted any authority besides the 2 that reported the Odigo warning after the attack happened.

I’ve done that and came to a whole different conclusion.

- Then you have not done so & your conclusion is incorrect

Take this in consideration to. If the 4000 knew (and of course still know) infront that the greatest crime in human history was about to happen that makes them accomplice if they didn’t warn or inform others or the authorities. I would be aware of that. This a big weight on the conscience of 4000 people. If a simple person can think of this, there for sure must be a Mossadman to see that risk. By the way, these 4000 are still quiet, all of them!

- If, if, if. It doesn't matter, this is the conclusion that the evidence leads to. I said deductive reasoning, not speculation as to what you think (or want) to have happened. Only 1 Israeli died in the towers no matter how you try to swing it, and he wasn't an employee.
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10-25-2007, 04:48 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-25-2007, 05:34 PM by Manticore.)
#9
Some questions about the 9-11 conspiracy
[quote name='Infinite' date='Oct 25 2007, 08:30 AM' post='104315'] It wasn't just Jews it was Israelis & the first mention of it was in the Jerusalem Post article. I don't know what they meant about "area" but I do know that the fact that there was a warning in advance via Odigo im service that was reported by 2 Israelis after the fact & reported in H'aaretz & that there is only 1 Israeli, who was not an employee & was only visiting the WTC, that's confirmed to have died. [/quote]

Only two of the 4000 people report something very evil. So the remaining 3998 must be psychopaths. That’s a conclusion I make out of this.

[quote name='Infinite' date='Oct 25 2007, 08:30 AM' post='104315'] assume 4000 was just an estimation. [/quote]

So it’s a guess that's presented as a fact, 4000 is what we hear all the time isn’t it?

[quote name='Infinite' date='Oct 25 2007, 08:30 AM' post='104315']
Quote: The Syrian defense minister Mustafa Tlass also blames the attacks on Israel:

Yes this is what Israel apologists & conspiracy deniers often try to do, switch the focus from the Jerusalem Post report estimating 4000 or the H'aaretz report about the Odigo warning & instead focus on Arabic sourced reports about the Israeli reports which include speculation. It's a great way to make it look like this is some Muslim extremist-sourced conspiracy theory rather than a logical theory based on reports from mainstream & Israeli sources. [/quote]

The claim 4000 Jews were missing at work started in the Arab world. On Islamic websites they love it.

[quote name='Infinite' date='Oct 25 2007, 08:30 AM' post='104315']
Quote: This is a strange situation. Conspiracy-believers and many other anti-Israel say Israel did it while Israels biggest enemies take full responsibility. If it’s true the Israelis are the perpetrators why OBL took the blame?

Right after 9/11 Osama Bin Laden issued a statement denying involvement in 9/11 & blaming it on Zionists. [/quote]

How the hell can a guy that lives in caves in Afghanistan know?

[quote name='Infinite' date='Oct 25 2007, 08:30 AM' post='104315'] Then later a mysterious video came out which you refer to which is known as the confession video. However there has been much speculation that the video was doctored from video experts & people [/quote]

Your statements are full of speculation. All his video’s are mysterious. Is there hard evidence of doctoring or is it mere speculation?

[quote name='Infinite' date='Oct 25 2007, 08:30 AM' post='104315']
Quote: Why did OBL blew the chance of a lifetime to make sure America’s friendship with Israel was over? Without America on their side Israel (the one who could lose the most) is much easier to be destroyed. Even the American would agree! The crazy thing is that OBL is in the Arab-Islamic-world (the ones who could benefit most) one of the most supported Muslims. Many see him as their ultimate leader. Are they really that stupid?

If you'd done any research on the topic you'd know that Osama Bin Laden was a CIA asset in the 80's & there's reason to suspect that he may have stayed one until his death in late 2001
[/quote]

In that time they had a common interest. They both wanted the Soviets out of Afghanistan. Later on OBL stabbed the people that helped him in the back.

[quote name='Infinite' post='104149' date='Oct 24 2007, 10:40 AM']
Quote: I wouldn’t risk of blowing up this whole thing by warning people. Not even one, leave alone 4000 people. If my fellow Jews were so important to me, and I’m a psychopath anyway, I would chose a different object. In a country like America there must be lots of alternatives that can serve the same objective…

Once again woulda, coulda, shoulda doesn't matter too much in competition with the actual recorded evidence.

You make assumption after assumption. Without it, no conspiracy theory.

[quote name='Infinite' post='104149' date='Oct 24 2007, 10:40 AM']
Quote: Is that a device that leaves no traces like letters telephone or email?

I don't even understand this question. The Odigo warning was admitted by 2 Israelis & acknowledged by the CEO of the company in H'aaretz. [/quote]

If you’re emailing you leave traces that can lead to the sender. How does this "people finder" work? I want to know what it exactly is…

[quote name='Infinite' post='104149' date='Oct 24 2007, 10:40 AM'] your conclusion is incorrect [/quote]

If your conclusion is right the attack is done by the most incompetent secretservice of all time. They made mistake after mistake, no eye for detail at all. Bloody amateurs. To make the conspiracy theory work this is an assumption you also have to make. It must be a part of that theory. Without that, there is no conspiracy theory possible. Can you agree on that?

[quote name='Infinite' post='104149' date='Oct 24 2007, 10:40 AM']
Quote: Take this in consideration to. If the 4000 knew (and of course still know) infront that the greatest crime in human history was about to happen that makes them accomplice if they didn’t warn or inform others or the authorities. I would be aware of that. This a big weight on the conscience of 4000 people. If a simple person can think of this, there for sure must be a Mossadman to see that risk. By the way, these 4000 are still quiet, all of them!

- If, if, if. It doesn't matter, this is the conclusion that the evidence leads to. I said deductive reasoning, not speculation as to what you think (or want) to have happened. Only 1 Israeli died in the towers no matter how you try to swing it, and he wasn't an employee.
[/quote]

You present hypothesises as facts. Only two out of the 4000 people reported this very evil. Would you count on that if you were head of the Mossad? Isn’t the supposed warning a necessary assumption, even if it goes against all logics, for having this conspiracy theory?

[quote name='Infinite' post='104149' date='Oct 24 2007, 10:40 AM'] Odigo has a service called "people finder" which would allow a user to send a message to mass amounts of people by characteristic, MOST LIKELY in this case all Israelis. So 4,000 Israelis were BELIEVED to have been in the AREA of the WTC & the Pentagon at the time according to the foreign ministry & only 1 Israeli died. [/quote]

Why say ‘most likely’, you’re not sure? And does that ‘believed’ mean that it doesn’t have to be true? That ‘area’ is also very vague. Can’t do much with it.

[quote name='Infinite' post='104149' date='Oct 24 2007, 10:40 AM'] Take the Odigo warning issue into consideration, as well as the fact that this parallels the foreknowledge the 5 Mossad agents working for a phony moving company called Urban Moving Systems displayed when they were set up to film the attack before the first plane hit according to the New York Times[/quote]

Why they wanted a film of that?! It is filmed from different angels many times anyway, so why they needed to film also and implicit risk to expose themselves? They self may get filmed and get caught by other cameras… Oke, I know the answer, they’re a bunch of imbeciles. They must be, that’s an assumption that also can be presented as a fact.

[quote name='Infinite' post='104149' date='Oct 24 2007, 10:40 AM'] the only conclusion that's possible is that all Israelis who were employees in the WTC received warnings of the attack & left beforehand, & none of them alerted any authority besides the 2 that reported the Odigo warning after the attack happened. [/quote]

Why you say ‘the only conclusion that's possible’ ? Isn’t that conclusion just necessary to save the conspiracy theory? Without it you wouldn’t have a leg to stand on. To me it seems that you accept everything that helps support your theory even if it goes against every logics.

Do you know how religion works? Believers ad all arguments up that support their believes, while at the same time deny or minimise everything that goes against it. If you ask too much it’s called blasphemy. In some religions you can even get murdered for that.

In the middle-ages people couldn’t explain the phenomena of the nature. In thunder and lighting they saw the hand of god. Now we know better. We can explain it and that takes god away. Still there always will be something we don’t understand and that keeps room for god. But his room is getting smaller and smaller. To me this conspiracy thing is just the same. In every event there will always be circumstances that are vague. And that vagueness is the water you’re fishing in. Only two people out of 4000 broke their silence. To me this is so absurd, it goes against all logics. If you want this conspiracy thing to be accepted please give a logical explanation for this. Don’t just assume it had to be that way. The only reason it had to be this way is for the purpose of the conspiracy theory itself. It’s a huge hole in your theory. How come there were only two out of 4000 people that were untrustworthy? Do you have examples of other occasions where something similar like this has happened?
Reply
10-25-2007, 07:49 PM,
#10
Some questions about the 9-11 conspiracy
So basically you have no interest in actually finding out the truth at all and your initial presentation of appearing to propose a geniune inquiry about this was deceptive.

[quote name='Manticore' date='Oct 25 2007, 11:48 AM' post='104359']
[quote name='Infinite' date='Oct 25 2007, 08:30 AM' post='104315'] It wasn't just Jews it was Israelis & the first mention of it was in the Jerusalem Post article. I don't know what they meant about "area" but I do know that the fact that there was a warning in advance via Odigo im service that was reported by 2 Israelis after the fact & reported in H'aaretz & that there is only 1 Israeli, who was not an employee & was only visiting the WTC, that's confirmed to have died. [/quote]

Only two of the 4000 people report something very evil. So the remaining 3998 must be psychopaths. That’s a conclusion I make out of this.

- Okay fine. Considering how the state of Israel operates and the atroscities it regularly engages in (here's the latest) it should be no suprise that a lot of their population are psychopathic. Of course there are always other possibilities like threats being made on peoples' lives for telling the truth, etc.

[quote name='Infinite' date='Oct 25 2007, 08:30 AM' post='104315'] assume 4000 was just an estimation. [/quote]

So it’s a guess that's presented as a fact, 4000 is what we hear all the time isn’t it?

- First of all it's not my guess, it's the Israeli embassy's guess according to the Jerusalem Post of the amount of Israeli expected to have been in the area at the time, their words not mine.

[quote name='Infinite' date='Oct 25 2007, 08:30 AM' post='104315']
Quote: The Syrian defense minister Mustafa Tlass also blames the attacks on Israel:

Yes this is what Israel apologists & conspiracy deniers often try to do, switch the focus from the Jerusalem Post report estimating 4000 or the H'aaretz report about the Odigo warning & instead focus on Arabic sourced reports about the Israeli reports which include speculation. It's a great way to make it look like this is some Muslim extremist-sourced conspiracy theory rather than a logical theory based on reports from mainstream & Israeli sources. [/quote]

The claim 4000 Jews were missing at work started in the Arab world. On Islamic websites they love it.

- Fine, I have no control over that. I've specified what the initial report was & what the actual specific facts are of the matter & provided citations. I have no control or responsibility over what other people write & it doesn't refect on my character or on the validity of what I've stated.

[quote name='Infinite' date='Oct 25 2007, 08:30 AM' post='104315']
Quote: This is a strange situation. Conspiracy-believers and many other anti-Israel say Israel did it while Israels biggest enemies take full responsibility. If it’s true the Israelis are the perpetrators why OBL took the blame?

Right after 9/11 Osama Bin Laden issued a statement denying involvement in 9/11 & blaming it on Zionists. [/quote]

How the hell can a guy that lives in caves in Afghanistan know?

- I don't know but apparently he figured it out somehow. Maybe a lucky guess. But like the 'Islamic websites' you speak of I have no control over what Bin Laden said shortly before his death 6 years ago I'm just reporting it. Perhaps a better question would be how the hell a guy that lives in a cave could have pulled off "the biggest crime of all time" as you describe it.

[quote name='Infinite' date='Oct 25 2007, 08:30 AM' post='104315'] Then later a mysterious video came out which you refer to which is known as the confession video. However there has been much speculation that the video was doctored from video experts & people [/quote]

Your statements are full of speculation. All his video’s are mysterious. Is there hard evidence of doctoring or is it mere speculation?

- Mysterious due to the circumstances of which they claimed they found it (in a random cave somewhere in Afghanistan), the fact that there are apparent anomalies that experts have cited as evidence that it had been doctored, the fact that it contradicted the denial of his involvement & statements about Zionists being repsonsible shortly after 9/11, & the fact that the FBI apparently does not consider it hard evidence linking him to the crime despite the fact that it's supposed to be a confession video!

Professor Bruce Lawrence of Duke University, who's written books on Bin Laden thinks it's fake. Since then they're released numerous videos that have been blatantly fake.

Here's an interesting Bin Laden video, perhaps this one is real as well.


[quote name='Infinite' date='Oct 25 2007, 08:30 AM' post='104315']
Quote: Why did OBL blew the chance of a lifetime to make sure America’s friendship with Israel was over? Without America on their side Israel (the one who could lose the most) is much easier to be destroyed. Even the American would agree! The crazy thing is that OBL is in the Arab-Islamic-world (the ones who could benefit most) one of the most supported Muslims. Many see him as their ultimate leader. Are they really that stupid?

If you'd done any research on the topic you'd know that Osama Bin Laden was a CIA asset in the 80's & there's reason to suspect that he may have stayed one until his death in late 2001
[/quote]

In that time they had a common interest. They both wanted the Soviets out of Afghanistan. Later on OBL stabbed the people that helped him in the back.

- Supposedly, but isn't it interesting how CNN repeatedly would interview while meanwhile the CIA & Mossad were somehow unable to track him down? It's interesting that there's evidence that the FBI were told to back off of investigating Osama Bin Laden & suspected Islamic terrorists prior to 9/11.

[quote name='Infinite' post='104149' date='Oct 24 2007, 10:40 AM']
Quote: I wouldn’t risk of blowing up this whole thing by warning people. Not even one, leave alone 4000 people. If my fellow Jews were so important to me, and I’m a psychopath anyway, I would chose a different object. In a country like America there must be lots of alternatives that can serve the same objective…

Once again woulda, coulda, shoulda doesn't matter too much in competition with the actual recorded evidence.

You make assumption after assumption. Without it, no conspiracy theory.

- Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black, I call you out for making "they would have" assumptions instead of looking at the facts & in response you say that I'm somehow the one making assumptions. Then you throw in the old 'conspiracy theory' slander, as if you using that term somehow invalidates everything that I've written. When you're the one offended because the conspiracy theory you're defending doesn't stand up to scrutiny & analysis of evidence.

[quote name='Infinite' post='104149' date='Oct 24 2007, 10:40 AM']
Quote: Is that a device that leaves no traces like letters telephone or email?

I don't even understand this question. The Odigo warning was admitted by 2 Israelis & acknowledged by the CEO of the company in H'aaretz. [/quote]

If you’re emailing you leave traces that can lead to the sender. How does this "people finder" work? I want to know what it exactly is…

- I found a good description simply by typing "Odigo people finder" into Google. An easy method, you should try it some time. Here it is:

"One of the cool things about Odigo is the People Finder, which lets you connect with other Odigo users who are online. You can make this feature even more powerful by opening the People Finder Filter (say THAT ten times fast!) drawer.

The filter lets you search for people using any or all of the following criteria:
Topic
Age group
Gender
Region
Language
Occupation
Status
Mood
Intention
Zodiac

So...if you wanted to find all the English-speaking women between 24-29 years of age who are accountants in Iceland, you can! Whatever or whoever you are looking for...you can find them easier with the filter."


[quote name='Infinite' post='104149' date='Oct 24 2007, 10:40 AM'] your conclusion is incorrect [/quote]

If your conclusion is right the attack is done by the most incompetent secretservice of all time. They made mistake after mistake, no eye for detail at all. Bloody amateurs. To make the conspiracy theory work this is an assumption you also have to make. It must be a part of that theory. Without that, there is no conspiracy theory possible. Can you agree on that?

- No. The fact is that only 1 Israeli died in the towers who was visiting & wasn't a resident employee & that 2 Israelis reported that they had received a warning about the attack 2 hours before it happened to the CEO of the company who reported it to H'aaretz. It's the Israeli embassy who stated that 4,000 Israelis should have been 'in the area', whatever that means, of the WTC & the Pentagon at the time it happened. The fact that the 2 Israelis reported the warning they received didn't know the sender is indicative that the message was came to them through demographic, i.e. it went out to Israelis.

[quote name='Infinite' post='104149' date='Oct 24 2007, 10:40 AM']
Quote: Take this in consideration to. If the 4000 knew (and of course still know) infront that the greatest crime in human history was about to happen that makes them accomplice if they didn’t warn or inform others or the authorities. I would be aware of that. This a big weight on the conscience of 4000 people. If a simple person can think of this, there for sure must be a Mossadman to see that risk. By the way, these 4000 are still quiet, all of them!

- If, if, if. It doesn't matter, this is the conclusion that the evidence leads to. I said deductive reasoning, not speculation as to what you think (or want) to have happened. Only 1 Israeli died in the towers no matter how you try to swing it, and he wasn't an employee.
[/quote]

You present hypothesises as facts. Only two out of the 4000 people reported this very evil. Would you count on that if you were head of the Mossad? Isn’t the supposed warning a necessary assumption, even if it goes against all logics, for having this conspiracy theory?

- "Would you count on that if you were the head of Mossad?" - See there you go, you're the one constantly making assumptions about what they would do! How the hell do I know what the "head of the Mossad" would do, I'm just reporting the evidence.

[quote name='Infinite' post='104149' date='Oct 24 2007, 10:40 AM'] Odigo has a service called "people finder" which would allow a user to send a message to mass amounts of people by characteristic, MOST LIKELY in this case all Israelis. So 4,000 Israelis were BELIEVED to have been in the AREA of the WTC & the Pentagon at the time according to the foreign ministry & only 1 Israeli died. [/quote]

Why say ‘most likely’, you’re not sure? And does that ‘believed’ mean that it doesn’t have to be true? That ‘area’ is also very vague. Can’t do much with it.

- Once again, not my words that was the quote from the Israeli embassy:

"The Foreign Ministry in Jerusalem has so far received the names of 4,000 Israelis believed to have been in the areas of the World Trade Center and the Pentagon at the time of the attack."

If you wish to believe that out of the 4,000 believed to have been in the area that none would have been in the towers then fine. I don't think it's too probable if you investigate it.


[quote name='Infinite' post='104149' date='Oct 24 2007, 10:40 AM'] Take the Odigo warning issue into consideration, as well as the fact that this parallels the foreknowledge the 5 Mossad agents working for a phony moving company called Urban Moving Systems displayed when they were set up to film the attack before the first plane hit according to the New York Times[/quote]

Why they wanted a film of that?! It is filmed from different angels many times anyway, so why they needed to film also and implicit risk to expose themselves? They self may get filmed and get caught by other cameras… Oke, I know the answer, they’re a bunch of imbeciles. They must be, that’s an assumption that also can be presented as a fact.

- No you just try to dismiss facts as assumptions when you're the one making the assumptions yourself. Here's a summary of the incident with filmers with lots of hyperlinks from mainstream sources that reported it. And here's a woman who witnessed it talking about it & 3 of the 5 themselves admitting their participation.

[quote name='Infinite' post='104149' date='Oct 24 2007, 10:40 AM'] the only conclusion that's possible is that all Israelis who were employees in the WTC received warnings of the attack & left beforehand, & none of them alerted any authority besides the 2 that reported the Odigo warning after the attack happened. [/quote]

Why you say ‘the only conclusion that's possible’ ? Isn’t that conclusion just necessary to save the conspiracy theory? Without it you wouldn’t have a leg to stand on. To me it seems that you accept everything that helps support your theory even if it goes against every logics.

Do you know how religion works? Believers ad all arguments up that support their believes, while at the same time deny or minimise everything that goes against it. If you ask too much it’s called blasphemy. In some religions you can even get murdered for that.

In the middle-ages people couldn’t explain the phenomena of the nature. In thunder and lighting they saw the hand of god. Now we know better. We can explain it and that takes god away. Still there always will be something we don’t understand and that keeps room for god. But his room is getting smaller and smaller. To me this conspiracy thing is just the same. In every event there will always be circumstances that are vague. And that vagueness is the water you’re fishing in. Only two people out of 4000 broke their silence. To me this is so absurd, it goes against all logics. If you want this conspiracy thing to be accepted please give a logical explanation for this. Don’t just assume it had to be that way. The only reason it had to be this way is for the purpose of the conspiracy theory itself. It’s a huge hole in your theory. How come there were only two out of 4000 people that were untrustworthy? Do you have examples of other occasions where something similar like this has happened?
[/quote]

- Lot of conjecture in that rant, no real substance. The facts speak for themselves & you're the one making assumptions & supporting a debunkable conspiracy theory as I've already explained. Your belief in the official story & denial of Israeli involvement is more comparable to literal belief in religious dogma & fantasy than anything that I've written.
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10-25-2007, 10:43 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-25-2007, 11:27 PM by Manticore.)
#11
Some questions about the 9-11 conspiracy
<span style="color:#FF0000">First, it pisses me off that we can’t quote.
So basically you have no interest in actually finding out the truth at all and your initial presentation of appearing to propose a geniune inquiry about this was deceptive.

<span style="color:#FF0000">That 's not true. You’re claiming that if I do not come to the same conclusions as you do, I have no interest in finding the truth. This is a debate forum isn’t it? I’m not deceptive. We discussed before, I called myself a defender of America Israel and the west. You know that. We discussed before.

- Okay fine. Considering how the state of Israel operates and the atroscities it regularly engages in (here's the latest) it should be no suprise that a lot of their population are psychopathic. Of course there are always other possibilities like threats being made on peoples' lives for telling the truth, etc.

<span style="color:#FF0000">One reason I support Israel is that their opponents are people that amputate, stone people for no sane reason, have laws that protect rapists, have forced marriages, child marriages, commit honour killings, circumcision, whiplashes, beheadings, slavery, throw homosexuals of high buildings (headdown first), and what I overlook. 70% of the so-called Palestine voted for this!

I call these people savages! If you know a better word I will use that instead…

I feel civilised people have the moral obligation to support others against savages. To me this argument is on its own good enough to defend Israel. So I ask again, do you know a more appropriate word than savages?

Perhaps a better question would be how the hell a guy that lives in a cave could have pulled off "the biggest crime of all time" as you describe it.

<span style="color:#FF0000">He wasn’t one of the hijackers obviously. He fonded it. The mastermind. That can be done in a cave.
Then you throw in the old 'conspiracy theory' slander, as if you using that term somehow invalidates everything that I've written.

<span style="color:#FF0000">I was trying to test your smartness…

"One of the cool things about Odigo is the People Finder, which lets you connect with other Odigo users who are online. You can make this feature even more powerful by opening the People Finder Filter (say THAT ten times fast!) drawer. So...if you wanted to find all the English-speaking women between 24-29 years of age who are accountants in Iceland, you can! Whatever or whoever you are looking for...you can find them easier with the filter."[/b]

<span style="color:#FF0000">My question was: Does it leave traces that can lead back to the sender?

<span style="color:#CC0000">If your conclusion is right the attack is done by the most incompetent secretservice of all time. They made mistake after mistake, no eye for detail at all. Bloody amateurs. To make the conspiracy theory work this is an assumption you also have to make. It must be a part of that theory. Without that, there is no conspiracy theory possible. Can you agree on that?

No. The fact is that 2 Israelis reported that they had received a warning about the attack.

<span style="color:#FF0000">Well that is the problem!! There should be many more! It’s out of the question there only be two. So the mossad still has failed. Very surprisingly two of the 4000 broke the rule. The unexpected happened!

In the further there will be people who’ll claim to have been informed. Just like there will be people who’ll claim UFO-abductions. Makes them important. And there always be fools that want to follow them.

If you’re right the Mossad provides here enough material for a film like ‘ Laurel and Hardy at the Mossad’. That kind of types they must have. We haven’t discussed it yet, but we’ll see them blunder at the Pentagon, building 7, the collapse of the giants, in the preparation, in the aftermath, just mistake after mistake. That’s the situation. This inspires me to make such lauph-filmscript! A comedy. Al I have do is follow the Mossad in the conspiracy theories. “You fool, couldn’t you think of uncontrolled demolition? Now they know!!”. This the level of mistakes you claim the Mossad makes.

The facts speak for themselves & you're the one making assumptions & supporting a debunkable conspiracy theory as I've already explained. Your belief in the official story & denial of Israeli involvement is more comparable to literal belief in religious dogma & fantasy than anything that I've written.[/b]

<span style="color:#FF0000">With every terrorist incident or big event an urban legend develops that challenges the official story. So?
Reply
10-26-2007, 06:36 AM,
#12
Some questions about the 9-11 conspiracy
Wow you sure had to delete a lot of facts & hyperlinks that challenge your world view in order to be able to post that response.

Quote:<span style="color:#FF0000">First, it pisses me off that we can’t quote.
So basically you have no interest in actually finding out the truth at all and your initial presentation of appearing to propose a geniune inquiry about this was deceptive.

<span style="color:#FF0000">That 's not true. You’re claiming that if I do not come to the same conclusions as you do, I have no interest in finding the truth. This is a debate forum isn’t it? I’m not deceptive. We discussed before, I called myself a defender of America Israel and the west. You know that. We discussed before.

- Okay fine. Considering how the state of Israel operates and the atroscities it regularly engages in (here's the latest) it should be no suprise that a lot of their population are psychopathic. Of course there are always other possibilities like threats being made on peoples' lives for telling the truth, etc.

One reason I support Israel is that their opponents are people that amputate, stone people for no sane reason, have laws that protect rapists, have forced marriages, child marriages, commit honour killings, circumcision, whiplashes, beheadings, slavery, throw homosexuals of high buildings (headdown first), and what I overlook. 70% of the so-called Palestine voted for this!

I call these people savages! If you know a better word I will use that instead…

- What would one have to do to qualify as a savage by your standards? Would killing a 12 & 13 year old boy qualify as savagery? Would leaving an old man to die in the street at a crossing count as savagery? Would preventing cancer patients care qualify as savagery? More on that here. Would shooting down random people at their homes qualify as savagery? Would having torture camps qualify as savagery? These are just today's reports from within Israel itself. On a larger scale would writing the plans for large scale, unprovoked, illegal, occupational war years in advance & then acting like they're new when you finally get the oppurtunity to carry them out (which you caused yourself) qualify as savagery? Would killing a million innocent people in these wars & displacing millions more from their homes, ruining their lives & contaminating their land with depleted uranium that causes horrible birth defects in masses of babies, all after years of brutal sanctions that already killed 500,000 children, which itself was after an invasion that killed up to 200,000 people - does this possibly measure somewhere close to what you would deem savage? Or are you so racist and so sick and so biggoted that none of these things matter to you at all because you are a savage and a fanatic that you want Arabs wiped off the face of the earth period for your own sick "pro-West" (actually treasonous) prejudices?

(By the way I'm not sure why you put circumcisions in there as Jews obviously do that too)


I feel civilised people have the moral obligation to support others against savages.

- Yeah so do I. That's why I hesitate to discuss alleged Palestinian atroscities because I'm aware that they are outweighed substancially by Zionist & Western imperialist atroscities, and that my country has been hijacked - if it was ever good in the first place - and used as an attack dog for elitist psychopaths. I also know that so-called Islamic & Palestinian 'terrorist groups' (often times actually resistance groups, or at least sold to the people as that) have been consistently trained, financed & sheparded by Western & Israeli governments, as this most recent article about it - from World Net Daily of all places - demonstrates. Why? My guess would be to perpetuate the problem of "Islamic radicalism" in the regions so as to constantly be able to implement the solution of occupational wars that result in theft of Arabic land & resources. A common strategy for tyrannical world powers known as 'order out of chaos'. (Here's a dope song about it by a rapper named Ras Kass, more for the benefit of whoever reads this than you)

<span style="color:#FF0000">My question was: Does it leave traces that can lead back to the sender?

- To answer this question, the information about the Odigo message was given by the CEO to the FBI which was headed by Michael Chertoff, the man who allowed all the Israelis suspected of involvement in 9/11, who were working for fake front companies for the Mossad to safely flee to Israel rather than be prosecuted despite the fact that they failed polygraph tests that were given to them.

"Chertoff allowed scores of suspected Israeli terrorists and spies to quietly return to Israel . In several cases, Israeli suspects working for phoney moving companies, such as Urban Moving Systems from Weehawken, N.J., were caught driving moving vans which tested positive for explosives. On September 14, Dominic Suter, the owner of the moving company, which was found to be a Mossad front company, fled to Israel after FBI agents requested a second interview." - source


<span style="color:#CC0000">If your conclusion is right the attack is done by the most incompetent secretservice of all time. They made mistake after mistake, no eye for detail at all. Bloody amateurs. To make the conspiracy theory work this is an assumption you also have to make. It must be a part of that theory. Without that, there is no conspiracy theory possible. Can you agree on that?

No. The fact is that 2 Israelis reported that they had received a warning about the attack.

<span style="color:#FF0000">Well that is the problem!! There should be many more! It’s out of the question there only be two. So the mossad still has failed. Very surprisingly two of the 4000 broke the rule. The unexpected happened!

In the further there will be people who’ll claim to have been informed. Just like there will be people who’ll claim UFO-abductions. Makes them important. And there always be fools that want to follow them.

- Really covering your tracks there huh? So even if they do go public they're just lying. Too bad there's still only one who died in the towers that wasn't an employee:

"There were, in fact, only three Israelis who had been confirmed as dead: two on the planes and another who had been visiting the towers on business and who was identified and buried." (New York Times, Sept. 22)

& that we know that there was a warning in advance sent out to Israelis, despite not knowing every last detail about it as you request (a common deceptive tactic)


<span style="color:#FF0000">If you’re right the Mossad provides here enough material for a film like ‘ Laurel and Hardy at the Mossad’. That kind of types they must have. We haven’t discussed it yet, but we’ll see them blunder at the Pentagon, building 7, the collapse of the giants, in the preparation, in the aftermath, just mistake after mistake. That’s the situation. This inspires me to make such lauph-filmscript! A comedy. Al I have do is follow the Mossad in the conspiracy theories. “You fool, couldn’t you think of uncontrolled demolition? Now they know!!”. This the level of mistakes you claim the Mossad makes.

It would be almost humerous if it wasn't true, and if the massive atroscities abroad & implementations of a surveilance state & draconian unconstutional legislation hadn't had happened as a result of it. But it's no more blunderous than blowing off JFK's head in public with a shot coming from the opposite direction that the shooter was supposed to have been at. We have the audio confession that that's what happened now too by the way, and the Mossad were likely involved in that one as well. But they've still gotten away with it because the mainstream media is controlled by them & enough people are brainwashed with blind loyalty to the government & their accounts of events like you are. Hopefully that's changing though.

The facts speak for themselves & you're the one making assumptions & supporting a debunkable conspiracy theory as I've already explained. Your belief in the official story & denial of Israeli involvement is more comparable to literal belief in religious dogma & fantasy than anything that I've written.

<span style="color:#FF0000">With every terrorist incident or big event an urban legend develops that challenges the official story. So?

And frequently in such situations those "urban legends" turn out to be based on actual factual evidence that debunk the official story and point to insider involvement as they do in 9/11.
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10-26-2007, 12:45 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-26-2007, 01:40 PM by Manticore.)
#13
Some questions about the 9-11 conspiracy
Lets see if I can find something similar. Lets what Israel’s opponents are all about, what the members of the religion of peace have to offer. Enjoy!

Quote:Palestinian Religious Leader: Muslims Will Kill All The Jews
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=19mpJRq11Hg

Palestinian Incitement: Children on a Mission to Kill Jews
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=ETrjbPWxyS8

Teaching Hatred to Palestinian Children
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=M529qurtDY0

Children of Palestinian Suicide Bomber
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=xEB0SvMzKzg

Israeli TV - 14 year old Suicide Bomber
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=PPU4UN03t7E

Muslims teaching children to kill jews
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=EdR3H7XXvJw

Shaikh Ordered Muslims to Kill Jews Australia 2007 SHOCKING!
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=DnFGhzRITow

Wife Beating in Islam - Only a rod will help!
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=iWGA8i6scYY

Iraqi Terrorist Talks of Beheading and Corpses Blasting
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=xXksoJ2_9Wg

Captured Iraqi Terrorist Shows How He Slaughtered People
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=J8e5WZrzZgA

Another Iraqi Terrorist Explains How He Slaughtered
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=zWnIRPl8xuw

Honour killings
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=c0VwJ9DPQd0

Execution in Iran
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=8nsUPBODrDM

Child Executions in Iran
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=dp3k97wTezQ

Female Circumcision - 3yo girl has clit cut off - fgm
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=UVxmDoklkJc

hanging majid kavousifar
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=aEUcVObI8iU

Islamic/Yezidi "Honor Killing" - Iraqi Girl Stoned to Death
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=JBkDdsx8T-4

Islam - Gewalt gegen Frauen
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=9cyrtYsBscA

Recent Hanging In Iran
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=kByRUQgFgUE

You know what my answer is to the above? Stuck Mojo!
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm-7SGCv78U

Infinite, if you had it your way, all these above would be implemented today in the area what now is called Israel. The sooner the better, right? By the way, it pisses me off that Youtube constantly removes the best films about Islamic law and justice. Maybe youtube is led by some racist Jews that don’t want us to know the beauty of Islam.
Reply
10-26-2007, 12:49 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-26-2007, 01:13 PM by Manticore.)
#14
Some questions about the 9-11 conspiracy
Quote:that causes horrible birth defects in masses of babies,

You know what also causes birth defects? Intermarriage. Cousins, mostly forced to marry, may produce children with mental deficits. There’s here in Holland a debate going on about the violent behaviour of Moroccans. They have a very high crime rate and suffer many times more from mental disorders like schizophrenia then other people in the community.

Quote:all after years of brutal sanctions that already killed 500,000 children, which itself was after an invasion that killed up to 200,000 people - does this possibly measure somewhere close to what you would deem savage?

In the nineties about 150.000 citizens in Algeria were murdered. In 1980 President Assad of Syria butchered about 40.000 of his own citizen of the moslimbrotherhood. Saddam Houssein is estimated to have the blood of 3 million people on his hands. Idi Amin killed 5 hundredthousand. In 1971 in the war between Pakistan and India 3 million Hindus were slaughtered and 250.000 Hindu woman were raped. Since 911 more then 9000 terrorist attacks, mostly on innocents, have been committed by Muslims. Why should I be impressed by the numbers you gave? If you had it your way Saddam would still be there today, the Taliban would still rule Afghanistan, why would that be a better world? What makes you think you are defending a good cause and I’m not?

Quote:(By the way I'm not sure why you put circumcisions in there as Jews obviously do that too)[/b]
No they don’t commit female genital mutilation.

Quote:That's why I hesitate to discuss alleged Palestinian atroscities because I'm aware that they are outweighed substancially by Zionist & Western imperialist atroscities, and that my country has been hijacked - if it was ever good in the first place - and used as an attack dog for elitist psychopaths.
Your country is hijacked? The Palestine are non-existing. They are an invention of the early 20th century. Until so far no one has been able to answer even one of the below questions. Questions that could give the Palestine legitimacy. Basically these questions are pro-Palestine…
Quote:Palestine

1. When was it founded and by whom?

2. What were its borders?

3. What was its capital?

4. What were its major cities?

5. What constituted the basis of its economy?

6. What was its form of government?

7. Can you name at least one Palestinian leader before Arafat?

8. Was Palestine ever recognized by a country whose existence,
at that time or now, leaves no room for interpretation?

9. What was the language of the country of Palestine?

10. What was the prevalent religion of the country of Palestine?

11. What was the name of its currency? Choose any date in history
and try and find the approximate exchange rate of the Palestinian monetary
unit against other world currencies on that date.

12. Have the Palestinians left any artifacts behind?

13. Do you know of a library where one could find a work of Palestinian literature
produced before 1967?

14. And, finally, since there is no such country today, what caused its demise and
when did it occur?

15. If the people you mistakenly call Palestinians are anything but generic Arabs collected from all over the Arab world, if they really have a genuine ethnic identity that gives them right for self-determination, why did they never try to become independent until Arabs suffered their devastating defeat by Israel in the 1967Six Day war.

Quote:I also know that so-called Islamic & Palestinian 'terrorist groups' (often times actually resistance groups, or at least sold to the people as that) have been consistently trained, financed & sheparded by Western & Israeli governments,

I can agree with you about that. If it’s up to me, we in the west stop paying the Palestine authorities today, who ever they are. Let the oil brothers do it. They have enough. Just like we shouldn’t keep the north-Koreans alive. If they want communism let them have it, but we shouldn’t pay for a not working system. We also kept the Sovjet-union alive. Mass food deliveries, for free, kept them from starving and kept them sticking to their system. If it were to me all western companies should leave the Islamic world. I would even shut down the satellites that transmit their television, telephones or internet communication. Or the weather broadcast. And if they still want it, let them pay the real price. And for our medicine to. No give-away prises anymore. We own them nothing. We superior in every aspect of life. We don’t need them. Also they don’t need us, they have Allah on their side haven’t they?

Quote:as this most recent article about it - from World Net Daily of all places - demonstrates. Why? My guess would be to perpetuate the problem of "Islamic radicalism" in the regions so as to constantly be able to implement the solution of occupational wars that result in theft of Arabic land & resources.

The first theft was from the Arab side. In the year 638 they conquered the land of the Jews and even had the guts to build in Jerusalem, at that time 3000 years the holycity of the Jews, the Alaqsa mosque which is now considered the third most holy object of Islam. I wonder how you, and the rest of the Muslimworld, would respond if the Jews conquered Mecca and build a synagogue on it... The Alaqsa mosque has been the major roadblock for a peace agreement. The Arabs, Palestine and Muslims demand that part of Jerusalem which is for the Jews totally unacceptable. Why are the Jews the bad guys and the others the good guys concerning this matter?
Reply
10-26-2007, 10:10 PM,
#15
Some questions about the 9-11 conspiracy
Quote:Let me repeat what was said, in a nutshell: it's not the movement suggesting that thousands of Israelis were warned by Odigo, it's a Jerusalem newspaper that reported this. You are asking the wrong question to the wrong people.

You are having a strawman debate there, don't you see?
Reply


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