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Project Seal
10-27-2007, 11:57 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-09-2008, 02:52 AM by ---.)
#1
Project Seal
could the great Sumatra-Andaman Earthquake have been given a bit of a push? was Banda Aché(sic) a terrorist operation? Saw this a while ago and thought it implausible but who knows..


Tsunami bomb NZ's devastating war secret

[b]12:00AM Saturday September 25, 1999
By Eugene Bingham [/b]
By Eugene Bingham

Top-secret wartime experiments were conducted off the coast of Auckland to perfect a tidal wave bomb, declassified files reveal.

An Auckland University professor seconded to the Army set off a series of underwater explosions triggering mini-tidal waves at Whangaparaoa in 1944 and 1945.

Professor Thomas Leech's work was considered so significant that United States defence chiefs said that if the project had been completed before the end of the war it could have played a role as effective as that of the atom bomb.

Details of the tsunami bomb, known as Project Seal, are contained in 53-year-old documents released by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade.

Papers stamped "top secret" show the US and British military were eager for Seal to be developed in the post-war years too. They even considered sending Professor Leech to Bikini Atoll to view the US nuclear tests and see if they had any application to his work.

He did not make the visit, although a member of the US board of assessors of atomic tests, Dr Karl Compton, was sent to New Zealand.

"Dr Compton is impressed with Professor Leech's deductions on the Seal project and is prepared to recommend to the Joint Chiefs of Staff that all technical data from the test relevant to the Seal project should be made available to the New Zealand Government for further study by Professor Leech," said a July 1946 letter from Washington to Wellington.

Professor Leech, who died in his native Australia in 1973, was the university's dean of engineering from 1940 to 1950.

News of his being awarded a CBE in 1947 for research on a weapon led to speculation in newspapers around the world about what was being developed.

Though high-ranking New Zealand and US officers spoke out in support of the research, no details of it were released because the work was on-going.

A former colleague of Professor Leech, Neil Kirton, told the Weekend Herald that the experiments involved laying a pattern of explosives underwater to create a tsunami.

Small-scale explosions were carried out in the Pacific and off Whangaparaoa, which at the time was controlled by the Army.

It is unclear what happened to Project Seal once the final report was forwarded to Wellington Defence Headquarters late in the 1940s.

The bomb was never tested on a full scale, and Mr Kirton doubts that Aucklanders would have noticed the trials.

"Whether it could ever be resurrected ... Under some circumstances I think it could be devastating."


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story....;objectid=14727
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04-09-2008, 12:53 AM, (This post was last modified: 02-07-2009, 02:40 AM by ---.)
#2
Project Seal
the story is implying the tech is there..

perhaps even a coordinated manipulation of a seismic fault line..a 'dummy' run for chaos even.
i was just throwing it out there as I have absolutely no idea to the actual extent of new military technologies in possesion of the pth. I do know there are robotic submarines. And too that it was just as likely, if not more so, the physical dynamics and movements of the planet without intervention, but I still shamelessly bumped the post anyway as I was after some concen opinion to the speculation..:rolleyes:
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02-07-2009, 04:55 PM, (This post was last modified: 02-07-2009, 05:06 PM by JazzRoc.)
#3
Project Seal
Quote:the story is implying the tech is there... perhaps even a coordinated manipulation of a seismic fault line... a 'dummy' run for chaos even. i was just throwing it out there as I have absolutely no idea to the actual extent of new military technologies in possesion of the pth. I do know there are robotic submarines. And too that it was just as likely, if not more so, the physical dynamics and movements of the planet without intervention, but I still shamelessly bumped the post anyway as I was after some concerned opinion about the speculation.
Yes, I can see and agree that what you're doing is worthwhile. Have no shame there. Perhaps you'll allow me to bump MY posts when people obviously haven't read them... No?:)

Armed forces have to be prepared to defend their country. (I'm talking legitimate stuff here, and not the heartless, illegal and hypocritical oil-grabbing genocide in the Middle East that so disgusts us all!) To do that they have to run through various scenarios, test weapons, put themselves through their response drills to attacks from without - the whole gamut. If they did not do this, they would not be able to carry out their job: DEFENSE.

They like their putative enemies to know this (without them exactly knowing how they are carrying this out) because it DETERS them from attacking. So whether it was letting off explosives on the sea bed or dribbling killed bacteria over parts of the US and UK, or almost anything else you'd care to imagine, there was less harm in doing these things than there might have been if we hadn't.

A country without war has within it successful armed forces. A country without war is STABLE and can PLAN its own development. It isn't good business to run down your armed forces. (Apart from which it keeps the dangerous "pioneering" types off the streets!)

Britain in 1935 had run its defense capabilities right down. It had forces designed to win WWI. It faced Krupps fantastic manufacturing capability, super-powerful and accurate gun and tank-making, the fast and brilliantly-gunned Wehrmacht, the experienced, super-fast and supremely-armed Luftwaffe, a small fleet of pocket battleships that were a deadly threat, and a large fleet of the world's finest submarines by far.

It isn't any wonder that the Germans laughed when Britain declared war on them. It's still a great wonder that they lost...

Had Britain matched Germany's armed forces in 1939, Hitler would have had to think of things other than "lebensraum", and WWII might not have happened at all...
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02-07-2009, 07:27 PM,
#4
Project Seal
I didn't bump the post - I linked to it in a reply to you - ie. it didn't show up in the new posts list.

Infer what you want but I linked to it because it seemed relevant to the discussion at hand, no other motivations, certainly not for the sake of just gathering views - the post was made in Oct 2007 or so, afterall. You chose to reply in this thread - thus 'bumping' it - I would have rather a reply in the other thread tbh, but no matter.
:rolleyes:

As far as I can tell, an effective military is largely governed by the amount of cash it has...now we can either subscribe to the idea that Hitler was the most genius economist known to man to have turned a bankruptt Germany around into a thriving economy in the space of literally a few years - or we can go with the theory that he had a rather Machiavellian helping hand with it from outside.

Whatever, the 'dribbling of bacteria' and detonating of explosives along seismic faults is altogether more nefarious in my opinion than as how you write it off as to nbeing under the aegis of 'defense' - and I certainly wouldn't try and construct the 'healthy deterrent' idea from such examples.
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02-07-2009, 10:40 PM, (This post was last modified: 02-07-2009, 11:06 PM by JazzRoc.)
#5
Project Seal
Quote:Infer what you want.
I was pulling your leg!

Quote:we can go with the theory that he had a rather Machiavellian helping hand with it from outside.
We can indeed. No problem there. I obviously failed to make my point.

Quote:Whatever, the 'dribbling of bacteria' and detonating of explosives along seismic faults is altogether more nefarious in my opinion than as how you write it off as to being under the aegis of 'defense' - and I certainly wouldn't try and construct the 'healthy deterrent' idea from such examples.
But there again, you aren't providing a 'defense' service for anyone.

Need I remind you that a successful "defense" is deterrence, and the ability to move swiftly and efficiently to "quarantine" and evacuate populations (but especially forces!) in the event of chemical and biological attack would, from the point of view of the attacker, render him open to the very chaos he was intending to inflict, which would be angrier, more spasmodic and unpredictable, and much more vindictively promoted. THAT's deterrence... The end result is PEACE instead of WAR.

Whether or not Herr Hitler was an economic genius (he certainly wasn't!), the facts stand that he acted as he did because he saw the French, British, Poles, Czechs and Russians as WEAK, and that in my view was a profound failure on our part - to maintain a commensurate and fully-deterrent armed capability. But it was only one of a sad succession of failures.

Sadly, once one HAS such an ability, it requires men of 'honor' not to abuse it, and unfortunately almost none of them are in politics. As we see right now.

And anyway, successful diplomacy, fair trade, and extending freedoms, are what we should have been doing, and that might be achieved by setting a world currency standard to a unit of manual labour, and limiting politicians to a single-term, reducing and abolishing organised religions and monarchies in their entirety. We should have done all this a century ago.

If we had, all this talk about 'defense' would be meaningless.
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02-07-2009, 11:22 PM, (This post was last modified: 02-07-2009, 11:37 PM by ---.)
#6
Project Seal
Quote:But there again, you aren't providing a 'defense' service for anyone.

Yes, that's indeed a shame - I think I'd be rather good at it B)

Quote:Need I remind you that a successful "defense" is deterrence, and the ability to move swiftly and efficiently to "quarantine" and evacuate populations (but especially forces!) in the event of chemical and biological attack would, from the point of view of the attacker, render him open to the very chaos he was intending to inflict, which would be angrier, more spasmodic and unpredictable, and much more vindictively promoted. THAT's deterrence... The end result is PEACE instead of WAR.

A wiser protocol than the one's I assume are those currently implemented - judging from the past record - would be to educate the public and to try and raise the level of general understanding to the necessary concerns, rather than treating them like demented bovian entities at risk of spasmodic and irrational behaviour at any given moment of stress.

From the stories I heard from great grandparents as a child, it seemed that people banded together and kept their wits about them during the bombings of the second world war rather than having fallen to pieces and the attendant social disintergration etc.

You could say the NBC threat is an entirely different kettle of fish and I'd agree but nevertheless distributing information, education, contingencies and providing resources - above ground - seems to me a better rationale than conducting ever secret trials without any public disclosure or interfacing. It's indictative of the deeply rooted class mentality of the UK establishment, essentially - in my opinion.

It's still open to debate as to whether such tests were wholly innocuous too, imo

Porton Down certainly has had it's moments that smack of experimental eugenicism.

Quote:Whether or not Herr Hitler was an economic genius (he certainly wasn't!), the facts stand that he acted as he did because he saw the French, British, Poles, Czechs and Russians as WEAK, and that in my view was a profound failure on our part - to maintain a commensurate and fully-deterrent armed capability. But it was only one of a sad succession of failures.

I didn't miss your point but mine was that it was outside monetary influence that facilitated the NSDAP in being able to adopt this point of view. Dictators seemingly get funded left, right ..and centre and when they get all 'Napoleonic' invariably yet another in direct opposition tends to suddenly appears As the Nazis did in the face of an AWOL Stalin ie it is a game - and we are and always have been pawns within it. Reminds me obscurely enough of the lyrics of a Chumawumba song that was in the 'charts' a few years ago.


Quote:Sadly, once one HAS such an ability, it requires men of 'honor' not to abuse it, and unfortunately almost none of them are in politics. As we see right now.

Couldn't agree more. We're in bad shape.


Quote:And anyway, successful diplomacy, fair trade, and extending freedoms, are what we should have been doing, and that might be achieved by setting a world currency standard to a unit of manual labour, and limiting politicians to a single-term, reducing and abolishing organised religions and monarchies in their entirety. We should have done all this a century ago.

Yes real fair trade not the slogan that is brandished on trendy packets in health food 'boutiques'.

Perhaps we could intergrate the other revolutionary concepts into plasticfan's new thread about anarchism.. potentially a very interesting thread.
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