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The West is the best
09-13-2007, 07:28 PM,
#66
The West is the best
I’m sorry I can’t answer all of you today. A year has 365 days so everything what is left out will have to be dealt with later. I’ll take this first.

Quote:
Quote: I feel civilised people have the moral obligation to support others against savages. To me this argument is on its own good enough to defend Israel. So I ask again, do you know a more appropriate word than savages?

you talk like some modern day missionary. what are savages?

If they would wear bearskins we wouldn’t have a hard time identifying them. These days they wear nice suits and drive in nice cars instead of on camels. To me savage means a state of mind, a stage of development. The Islam represents the habits norms and values of a primitive seventh century Arab desert tribe. And nothing more. And of one thing I’m really sure, it has nothing to do with god. I say, if there is a god, Islam is his biggest insult.

You don’t have to wear a bearskin to be a savage. Well dressed in nice western clothes doesn’t stop a savage being a savage. Take a look: http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=vRlypk5OOpc

Quote:like for example the relative tolerance shown to the Jews in Islamic lands by comparison to how they have been treated by Christianity. remember, it was not Islam that supported Hitler, it was Christianity, most specifically Catholicism.
I disagree: Islam, Hitler & the Mufti: http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=QygwC7S2iEY

Quote:i am also not denying that the Quran read in a certain way can be used to legitimate violence - but then show me a holy book that has not been used for that purpose. you cannot. remember also, it was not Islam that invented the concept of 'holy war' but Christianity, most specifically Catholicism.

Muslims invented jihad, holy war, on their own. They love to spread the lie that jihad means inner struggle. It doesn’t. By the way, it’s funny to translate inner struggle into German: Mein Kampf!

Quote:we constantly hear tales of 'suicide bombers', undoubtedly this inspires fear throughout populations, in some with good reason (generally those with US and Israeli fingerprints all over them), but what is never discussed is the feelings of desperation and hopelessness that lead children to blow themselves to pieces.

I can’t disagree more. If the suicide bombers act out of desperation then they must be desperate in the Filipinas, Thailand, Russia, Tjetsenia, India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Kashmir, Bali, London, New York, Madrid and so on. This proofs it's not out of desperation. Killing innocents is just a normal Islamic battle technique. They can’t admit that to the civilised world so they cover up with lies their true savage nature.

5% of the people in Thailand are Muslim. Just as 5% of the Filipinas population is. Why do they get attacked just like Israel who is supposed have taken Islamic land?

You maybe right, maybe Muslims are hopeless and desperate. But is it that someone else’s fault? I don’t think so. If its true that Jews, a mere 0.2% of the world population, has so much more power and influence than the 20% of Muslims then maybe there’s something wrong with the latter. http://www.masada2000.org/nobel.html

In Japan the level of mathematics is for 12 years olds close to European university level. In Pakistan and many other Islamic countries the education at that age are merely koranlessons, if there is education at all. The Koran, the prefect book, has answers for all situations so nothing else is needed. About 75% of the Muslims in the world are still analphabetics. Don’t blame anybody else for their backwardness but themselves.

But get me right, I’m not against Muslims. I’m against Islam. I see Muslims as the first victims of Islam. Muslims are humans, Islam dehumanises them into savages. The more Islamic a state is, the more it resembles Afghanistan. The more Islamic a person is, the more he looks like a Taliban.

Quote:what you need here Manticore is perspective. and to understand there is more than one side to an argument (there are always many sides and many facets to every argument) - and understanding the arguments of the opposition is the only way, ever, (barring genocide) of resolving disputes.

I concentrate on one side of the story, and you do the other side. So the arguments will come together…

Quote:i was going to address you points individually, but really they are all the same question - where was Palestine?

If you run true the list of early Islamic attacks you can see that basically all conflicts today are in area’s of their early conquerings. Israel is just one example. If they don’t have border disputes with non-Muslim-states, they are fighting amongst each other. If Islam is a religion of peace, where exactly has it brought peace?

Quote:it is conveniently lost from history but Jewish communities often took refuge in the Islamic world when Christianity was at its most rampant and vicious.

When Israel was founded in 1948 about half a million Jews were expelled from the Arab and Islamic world. Guess were they went?

Quote:I’m not quite sure of the truth of this (and of course everyone who comes to this debate brings positions and prejudices) but i have heard that something like 90% of Jews do not actually find their origin in Palestine (and surrounding areas) but were actually Khazars, from a region way to the north on the Caspian Sea, who converted along with their king around the 8th century (i might be wrong with that date). if this is actually so, it appears to blow the flimsy ribbons of an excuse for Israel completely out the window - would you not agree?

I don’t know if it’s true what you say. Jews can also be found in Ethiopia. These people are Jews but also blacks. To me they can hardly make a historical claim on the land of Israel. But they can on religious grounds claim Jerusalem as their holy city. After all they are Jews. In America there is a group of black Jew called the Nation of Yahweh. It’s a murderous sect. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh_ben_Yahweh They claim to be the true Jews, the middle east Jews have taken their land they say. I can’t beat every claim people make. And also I don’t want to.

There is hardly in this matter a thing we’re really sure of. There is absolutely no proof that prophet Muhammad even existed. The only sources we have are hadith, oral stories, written down 200 years after his dead. It’s like my great great grandfather heard something about Napoleon and told his son, who told his son, who told his son ect, and now I’m telling you. Neither there is proof of Mozes, Jezus, Adam and Eve, and so on. But for believers this doesn’t seem to be a big obstacle.

Big hugs to you to. Have a nice day.


Messages In This Thread
The West is the best - Manticore - 09-09-2007, 09:21 PM
The West is the best - strawman - 09-09-2007, 09:57 PM
The West is the best - markko - 09-09-2007, 09:58 PM
The West is the best - ephilution - 09-09-2007, 10:02 PM
The West is the best - zion_brother - 09-10-2007, 12:57 AM
The West is the best - Henry - 09-10-2007, 01:19 AM
The West is the best - blove8. - 09-10-2007, 01:30 AM
The West is the best - standvast - 09-10-2007, 07:15 AM
The West is the best - Manticore - 09-10-2007, 10:52 AM
The West is the best - TriWooOx - 09-10-2007, 12:01 PM
The West is the best - Guest - 09-10-2007, 01:06 PM
The West is the best - monkeytribe23 - 09-10-2007, 01:16 PM
The West is the best - strawman - 09-10-2007, 01:47 PM
The West is the best - zatara - 09-10-2007, 04:01 PM
The West is the best - Manticore - 09-10-2007, 05:43 PM
The West is the best - markko - 09-10-2007, 08:20 PM
The West is the best - razorback2000 - 09-10-2007, 08:39 PM
The West is the best - razorback2000 - 09-10-2007, 08:41 PM
The West is the best - Ognir - 09-10-2007, 09:59 PM
The West is the best - TeslaandLyne - 09-10-2007, 10:38 PM
The West is the best - mothandrust - 09-10-2007, 10:47 PM
The West is the best - Manticore - 09-11-2007, 12:41 AM
The West is the best - deathstickboy - 09-11-2007, 01:50 AM
The West is the best - Guest - 09-11-2007, 05:30 AM
The West is the best - MC David - 09-11-2007, 06:22 AM
The West is the best - MC David - 09-11-2007, 06:28 AM
The West is the best - Guest - 09-11-2007, 06:46 AM
The West is the best - MC David - 09-11-2007, 08:20 AM
The West is the best - Manticore - 09-11-2007, 10:10 AM
The West is the best - Manticore - 09-11-2007, 10:28 AM
The West is the best - Guest - 09-11-2007, 01:03 PM
The West is the best - Manticore - 09-12-2007, 02:43 AM
The West is the best - mothandrust - 09-12-2007, 03:12 AM
The West is the best - Manticore - 09-12-2007, 12:03 PM
The West is the best - Ognir - 09-12-2007, 12:45 PM
The West is the best - mothandrust - 09-12-2007, 12:45 PM
The West is the best - Manticore - 09-12-2007, 01:25 PM
The West is the best - ephilution - 09-12-2007, 03:00 PM
The West is the best - Ognir - 09-12-2007, 03:18 PM
The West is the best - Manticore - 09-12-2007, 08:10 PM
The West is the best - Manticore - 09-12-2007, 08:33 PM
The West is the best - Ognir - 09-12-2007, 08:40 PM
The West is the best - humbug - 09-12-2007, 09:16 PM
The West is the best - Manticore - 09-12-2007, 09:21 PM
The West is the best - humbug - 09-12-2007, 09:38 PM
The West is the best - ephilution - 09-12-2007, 09:56 PM
The West is the best - humbug - 09-12-2007, 10:12 PM
The West is the best - mothandrust - 09-12-2007, 10:12 PM
The West is the best - ephilution - 09-12-2007, 10:29 PM
The West is the best - Manticore - 09-12-2007, 10:55 PM
The West is the best - Manticore - 09-12-2007, 11:11 PM
The West is the best - Manticore - 09-12-2007, 11:14 PM
The West is the best - Manticore - 09-12-2007, 11:36 PM
The West is the best - humbug - 09-12-2007, 11:49 PM
The West is the best - Guest - 09-13-2007, 12:49 AM
The West is the best - Manticore - 09-13-2007, 01:11 AM
The West is the best - Guest - 09-13-2007, 01:16 AM
The West is the best - mothandrust - 09-13-2007, 02:06 AM
The West is the best - Guest - 09-13-2007, 03:23 AM
The West is the best - mastermg - 09-13-2007, 05:47 AM
The West is the best - Guest - 09-13-2007, 06:08 AM
The West is the best - shZ - 09-13-2007, 10:27 AM
The West is the best - shZ - 09-13-2007, 10:28 AM
The West is the best - shZ - 09-13-2007, 10:56 AM
The West is the best - Guest - 09-13-2007, 05:46 PM
The West is the best - Manticore - 09-13-2007, 07:28 PM
The West is the best - Ognir - 09-13-2007, 07:32 PM
The West is the best - Ognir - 09-13-2007, 07:37 PM

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