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chemtrail spraying altitude gradually getting lower ? - icosaface - 05-03-2009

So where did you get the saturated air in the stratosphere from? You think they used LIDAR and you think only the most talented scientists would operate it? Your talented scientists are probably economic prisoners and that had an agenda handed to them.

You claim to know how Bill and Celia Abram arrived at the conclusions they did using your great scientific powers of arbitrary omniscience. Bill was a meteorological observer for the department of transport in Canada in the 1950's, as such he had to identify all the cloud formations in the sky at his post and report them to the home base. He saw none of the phenomena then that he reports seeing in the video , he also states that sundogs do not appear in the summer under natural conditions but since they began spraying chemtrails they do. You dismiss what they say as giberish and claim that they got it all from some "chemtrail trash" that they read. You display real scientific deductive logic there jr. It is what I have come to expect from you.

You should know that real scientists observe events and record their observations. Rosalie Bertell does this and you declare her to be incompetent. You don't address what she says, you just label her observations as unacceptable to you.

Nice photo from Time, not relevant but the best you could do on short notice I guess.

I have to go to work again but I leave you with this.

"Complete Health" Ontario magazine - Fall/Winter 2002

"Mystery in the Sky - Chemtrails over Ontario"
Micky Absil

Stories about suspicious chemical trails in the sky have been floating about for years. I don't know if they're true, but if there is truth to any of them, the implications are, at the least, very disturbing.

I first heard about Chemtrails on a sunny clear day in October 2001 when I was visiting a farm near the small rural community of Marlbank, Ontario. Looking up, I noticed an unusual number of vapour trails in the blue vastness above. The trails formed a criss-cross pattern across the sky, looking as if a group of hotshot jet pilots had been horsing around. My host said that she believed they were chemtrails, that is, chemicals that are sprayed from jets. She had been noticing them for some time, but since September 11, they were appearing far more frequently, often daily. She went on to explain that odd-looking commercial airline vapour trails (contrails) were being reported all over the world since 1998. I had to admit the trails did appear strange and puzzling and so I left, determined to investigate.

I called the Ministry of the Environment in Kingston and explained what I had seen. The man I spoke to suggested it might be crop dusting. "In mid October?" He admitted that it was not likely, but that this sort of thing was not in the jurisdiction of his ministry, so he could not help me. I received a similar response from the ministry office in Toronto." An e-mail to the then Minister of Health, Allan Rock, elicited a two-page letter explaining that his ministry "was not aware of any chemtrail activity in Canada and that contrails, condensation trails, which do not pose health risks to humans, have been a normal effect of jet aviation since its earliest days." He added, "Recently, more people have noticed them because they have become more frequent as a result of the increase in air traffic transport." Some time later I received another two-page letter informing me that The Honourable Allan Rock, former Minister of Health had forwarded my email to The Honourable David M. Collenette, Minister of Transport, and that Minister Collenette wished me to know that what I had seen were "contrails, which are composed of ice particles and are a normal by-product of aircraft flying at high altitudes." The letter went on to say that contrails are becoming more common as a result of the very efficient engines of modern aircraft. I was frankly surprised to see that my short e-mail had elicited such serious responses by the offices of two busy ministers. I also wondered which minister was correct in explaining why contrails were being seen more frequently. The Sierra Club responded to my query about contrails with an e-mail saying, "Unfortunately this is an issue that the Sierra Club is not currently addressing." They recommended that I contact the Institute for Concern for Public Health. I did, but never heard back from them.

I continued to dig. On the Internet I found a barrage of websites on chemtrails, including photographs, scientific data, maps, petitions and even lab reports. It appears that there is a large network of people, including scientists, environmentalists, biomedical researchers, journalists and former members of the military, gathering information and demanding answers for this suspicious phenomenon. Citizen action groups such as Blue Skies International are actively seeking information as well.

What's going on? There are various theories as to the nature and origin of the trails. Many believe there is more than one military project operating simultaneously, but most of the websites agree on the basics: chemtrails look like contrails initially but are thicker and last longer, often hours. (According to National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration meteorologist Thomas Schlattes: "Even in most ideal conditions a jet contrail lasts no more than 30 minutes.") Usually chemtrails form criss-cross patterns of Xs, grids or parallel lines across the sky for miles at a time, often appearing outside of commercial airline routes. The lines widen and spread featherlike, creating a cloud cover of the sprayed substance which then settles to the ground, blanketing the area sprayed. Although the material is difficult and rare to come by in large quantities, some tests show that it contains biological material. In some cases it has been found to include building blocks of a viral nature that would have needed to be generated in a lab. The substance has been described as a 'brown goo' and is considered dangerous.

"Ground fallout [from the chemtrails] analyzed in the United States contained carcinogens and bacteria. Coincidentally in the past decade, most jet fuel was re-engineered to reduce fire hazards by adding a long-banned pesticide, which was reportedly also found in gel samples from chemtrails. Also found were toxic micro-fibers, much finer than asbestos," the Ottawa Citizen wrote. (A fervour over chemtrails, May 16, 2001)

I spoke with Ben McNenly from Espanola Ontario who spearheaded the efforts to stop chemtrail spraying in his small northern community. In the spring of 1999, according to Ben, military aircraft started flying in formation overhead and spraying heavily. "One evening I was photographing the trails when I felt a fine particulate pelting my face and hands. It stung my skin so badly that I had to run inside." Residents over a 50 mile radius started complaining to the provincial Ministry of Environment of severe headaches, chronic joint pain, dizziness, extreme fatigue, acute asthma attacks and feverless flu-like symptoms. They attributed their ailments to the months of spraying by photo identified US Air Force tanker planes. Lab tests on particulate and rainwater samples found quartz and extremely high levels of aluminum, seven times government safe levels and high enough, according to the lab, to kill fish. "I'm convinced people here have died as a result of this spraying, including a close friend," Ben recounted sadly. Another Espanola resident reported that mental confusion and short-term memory loss were so prevalent that forgetting where their cars were parked had become a standing joke in the small town.

On November 18, 1999, the people of Espanola petitioned Parliament. Addressing the Canadian government on their behalf, NDP Defence Critic Gordon Earle explained: "Over 500 residents of the Espanola area have signed a petition raising concern over possible government involvement in what appears to be aircraft emitting visible aerosols. They have found high traces of aluminum and quartz in particulate and rainwater samples." These concerns, combined with associated respiratory ailments, have led these Canadians to take action and seek clear answers from this government. The petitioners call upon Parliament to repeal any law that would permit the dispersal of military chaff or of any cloud-seeding substance whatsoever by domestic or foreign military aircraft without the informed consent of the citizens of Canada thus affected."

The Ministry of Defence eventually replied, denying their involvement in any spraying program over Espanola and added somewhat ambiguously "In addition, the Canadian Forces have confirmed that they are not aware of any visiting foreign military aircraft having requested diplomatic clearance to conduct aerial spraying or to drop chaff in the vicinity of Espanola."

How often is this occurring? The consensus is that since 1998, citizens throughout the world have documented spray patterns on a nearly daily basis, with an average of one "clear" day per week. It's suggested that we have all become accustomed to these changes in our skies, as they've been introduced bit by bit, and have presumed them to be normal.

Government agencies deny the existence of chemtrails but according to reports, intense spraying occurs in some areas of the U.S., Canada, Europe and England, including areas with no commercial flight paths overhead. Recently, Australia, Mexico, South Africa, Bahamas, Puerto Rico and Croatia have reported chemtrail spraying. Sightings have now been reported in fourteen NATO nations and investigative reporter William Thomas notes that Croatian chemtrails began the day after that country joined NATO.

In spite of government denials, some highly placed individuals have come forward to confirm the existence of chemtrails. US Congressman and Ohio Representative Dennis Kucinich introduced Bill HR2977 calling for the peaceful uses of space and a ban on "exotic weapons." Section 7 of the Space Preservation Act of 2001 sought to "proscribe any substance which could be weaponized, including chemtrails." Kucinich recently told the Columbus Alive newspaper (Jan. 24, 2002) that, despite official denials, as head of the Armed Services Oversight Committee, he is well acquainted with chemtrail projects. "The truth is there's a program in the Department of Defence, The U.S. Space Command's 2020 vision that calls for dominance of space, sea and air through multilayered weapons systems", Kucinich told reporter Bob Fitrakis.

What is the purpose behind the trails? This is where the varying reports differ. Secret government mass inoculation against possible bacterial and viral attack (Biowarfare) is one theory. There is evidence in the form of research that the US Department Of Defence has an interest in aerosol mass application of decontaminants. Maxygen, Inc., of Redwood City, Calif., has been awarded a $6,753,064 research and development cost contract to support the Defence Advanced Research Project Agency's Biological Warfare Defence Program. The contractor proposes to use bacillus spores as an aerosol-based delivery vehicle for medicinal purposes, specifically, vaccination and therapeutics.

Another theory relates to government efforts to control global warming. Cited as evidence is a project designed to block and reduce the radiation from the sun to the earth with an aerosol emitted from aircraft. (Source: Edward Teller, Director Emeritus, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, The Planet Needs a Sunscreen, Wall Street Journal, October 17, 1997. Mr. Teller was the father of the H-bomb and an ardent advocate of the Reagan administration's Star Wars program.)

It's been reported that a scientist working at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, who insisted on anonymity, claims that the two most common substances being sprayed into chemtrails are aluminum oxide and barium stearate. When you see planes flying back and forth marking parallel lines, X-patterns and grids in a clear sky, that's aluminum oxide, according to the scientist. The goal is to create an artificial sunscreen which reflects solar radiation back into space to alleviate global warming.

Computer simulations by Ken Caldeira at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory calculated that this method could stop warming over 85 per cent of the planet, despite an anticipated doubling of carbon in the atmosphere within the next 50 years. Lawrence Livermore priced the aerial spray program at US$1 billion dollars a year, a cheap fix to maintain massive petroleum profits in the face of Kyoto's internationally agreed carbon cutbacks. But Ken Caldeira, the climate expert who ran the computer model, has warned that the stratospheric spraying of sunlight-reflecting chemicals could destroy the ozone layer and pose human health risks.

A third theory points to the use of chemtrails in electromagnetic warfare. According to scientists, "In some cases, barium may be sprayed in a similar manner for the purpose of "high-tech 3-D radar imaging. The barium can be used as a 'wire' through which to shoot an electromagnetic beam through in order to take 3-D images of the ground far over the horizon." William Thomas, writing in the November-December 2001 issue of NEXUS New Times magazine, essentially confirmed this assessment. "The barium spread in exercises conducted out of Wright-Patterson Air Force Base acts as an electrolyte, enhancing conductivity of radar and radio waves," Thomas reported. "Wright-Pat has also long been deeply engaged in HAARP's electromagnetic warfare program." (High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program in Alaska)

Another theory proposes a government program to modify and control weather patterns. There is evidence that throughout the Cold War, both the United States and the Soviet Union actively investigated the military use of weather modification. The U.S. Air Force admitted to CNN in July 2001 that it had broken up a storm over the Atlantic using products made by a company called Dyn-O-Mat.

Other reports on Chemtrails present a variety of frightening scenarios. It all sounds too much like an X Files episode to be true, but I do wonder if there is something worrisome about the trails that I saw in the sky above Marlbank and have seen since in other areas. Is there some validity to all the reports and websites? Is there a secret spraying program? I honestly don't know what to make of it all. Much of what I found in the chemtrail websites may be the rantings of a lunatic fringe of Chicken Little conspiracy theorists, but clearly some evidence and first-hand reports do appear rational, compelling and very disturbing.

Update: I have noticed that the skies over the Kingston area during this summer of 2002 have been clearer; with far fewer suspicious looking jet trails. I recently spoke to Ben McNenly in Espanola and he reports that the spraying over his region of northern Ontario seems to have been scaled back, or at least the noticeable low altitude spraying. He added that, although some of the symptoms of joint pain and respiratory problems persist for some Espanola residents, most are feeling better.

chemtrail spraying altitude gradually getting lower ? - JazzRoc - 05-03-2009

icosaface May 3 2009 post 167356 So where did you get the saturated air in the stratosphere from?
"400 NOAA-14 satellite scenes from four months of the year 1998 were analysed. Both regions show sufficient air traffic to produce an observable amount of contrails. Thus we are able to measure for the first time contrail frequencies in the tropics and compare it to a nearby mid latitudinal region. The annual average of the daily mean contrail cloud coverage is 0.13% for the Thailand region and about 0.25% for the Japan region. For both regions the contrail cover is largest during spring. The daily cycle shows surprisingly high contrail coverage during night in spite of lower air traffic densities during night time."

You think they used LIDAR and you think only the most talented scientists would operate it? Your talented scientists are probably economic prisoners and that had an agenda handed to them.

Sneer. Those poor bastards at NASA are just goons... their satellite crap... their hundreds of scientific papers written with dozens of co-workers from all the technical nations on Earth just bullshit - and you have the key to everything. My arse.

You claim to know how Bill and Celia Abram arrived at the conclusions they did using your great scientific powers of arbitrary omniscience.

I know he was less observant than I was. Consistently for fifty years.

he also states that sundogs do not appear in the summer under natural conditions

See - more gibberish.

You display real scientific deductive logic there jr. It is what I have come to expect from you.

Praise indeed from a gullible believer of gibbering idiots.

Rosalie Bertell does this and you declare her to be incompetent.

She has shown no evidence. I said she is insane.

You don't address what she says, you just label her observations as unacceptable to you.

She has shown no evidence. I said she is insane.

Nice photo from Time, not relevant but the best you could do on short notice I guess.

Dated 1945. Way back for a set of chemtrails, eh?

I leave you with this. The substance has been described as a 'brown goo' and is considered dangerous.

Thanks for your shit. Actually it becomes perfectly safe when composted with thermophilic bacteria to 50 degrees C.

Ground fallout [from the chemtrails]

And what miraculous agent separated THAT from natural airborne dust?

most jet fuel was re-engineered to reduce fire hazards by adding a long-banned pesticide

NO IT WASN'T. It merely had the low flash-point distillates removed from it. There is a military standard cooking stove designed to burn JP-8 jet fuel. I reckon there would be no takers for the job of COOK if the erks (sorry - "grunts") learnt they were burning PESTICIDE. REALLY!:laughkick:

They have found high traces of aluminum and quartz in particulate and rainwater samples.

"Kaolinite Al2Si2O5(OH)4 is a common white clay mineral derived from alteration of aluminium silicates, especially feldspars. Illite contains the same constituents as kaolinite, plus potassium, and is the main mineral of clay sediments, mudstones, and shales; it is a weathering product of feldspars and other silicates. Montmorillonite contains the constituents of kaolinite plus sodium and magnesium; along with related magnesium- and iron-bearing clay minerals, it is derived from alteration and weathering of mafic igneous rocks. Kaolinite (the mineral name for kaolin or china clay) is economically important in the ceramic and paper industries. Illite, along with other clay minerals, may also be used in ceramics."

Like, er, deja vu....:icon_idea:

Further vomitus


And following on from the KSLA "I stuck a jar on the bonnet of my car for I'm not sure how long and got myself goo full of barium" DEBACLE:

02 May 2009 post 402 Stars15k

Okay, I finally decided how to really find out about this particular news report. It has been reposted ad nauseum on YouTube, many times in any single week, even attributed to be a "national" news report. And it's held in almost holy regard by ChemBelievers, as the holy grail of truth about our poisoned sky.
I have always believed that the best source of news and information should be the actual source, so I emailed KSLA News12's own reporter, Jeff Ferrell. Here is my original letter (I've substituted my real name with my online one and removed my exact location for privacy):

Hello! My name is Stars15k, from IN. I have an interest in all things science, particularly weather and clouds. While I was casually clicking around on YouTube, I found your piece on Chemtrails. It is reposted often, as much as 3 times this past 7 days. I immediately noticed you had misstated the number on the results as 6.8 instead of the printed 68.8, then recognized that the unit wasn't the same as stated in printing either. I was already on red alert considering the sampling process was a great deal less then optimum; no mention was made how any ground level pollutants would be accounted for at the very least. As I have researched all over the web further, I have found that the mistakes made were numerous. Here's a link to a complete "debunk": So, I was wondering what you as the original reporter thought of all of it. Was a retraction ever made, or a correction? Why or why not? As a science-minded person, I am known on YouTube as a "disinformationalist" (yep, this word isn't in Webster's), disinfo agent, paid shill, and lots of other names and insults for completely speaking out against the report for the reasons I've stated above. It's become something of a hobby for me to try and get people to look at clouds and the atmosphere and how it works, not look to conspiracy theorists for their "science" and news. The debate continues on YouTube with new impetus with the flu outbreak, which is currently suggested as being spread by "chemtrails".
So, as the current leading authority on the reality of chemtrails poisoning our skies everyday, what do you think NOW? And if you do answer back, may I quote you?

Several days later, I got this back:

Thank you for the email. Yes, I did make corrections to my first report, which originally aired almost 2-years ago now, after quickly realizing my very embarrassing mistake. I was not happy with myself. Unfortunately, the first version of my report got out to the internet before I could make the correction(s), and the wrong version is shown repeatedly. There are some salient points in the piece, but your issue about ground level pollutants is a great one, as well.
Stars15k, unlike some who may stubbornly stick to a report even when portions of it turn out to be wrong, I am only interested in the truth. My feeling is, and maybe you'd agree, that if such aerosol mixes were created and loaded into jets with either a separate/independent dispersal method other than the exhaust, or actually in the fuel itself, somewhere, somehow, you'd expect someone to talk. I have not heard that yet.
I also interviewed the scientist who originally patented what some believe was a precursor to so-called chemtrail technology. He's a very kind, helpful man who could not have been more helpful. He says he knows nothing about any such conspiracy. Again, as with the previous graph, that neither proves nor dispels such a conspiracy; I am awaiting more facts.
And ironically, this is not the only investigation that's shed light on everything from Bin Laden's FBI poster to martial law and the role of the clergy in such a scenario. But, for whatever reason, chemtrails has become the most popular. Below is a sample of some of that work.
(He included some links, but they are off CT topic, so I have not shown them)
Thanks again for taking the time to contact me and feel free to pass along any information, if you'd like. Sincerely, Jeff Ferrell

So, this report is officially wrong, the reporter knows it, admits it and told about it. I know some won't believe it, but come on! If the reporter says it's wrong, how can anyone else say it's right?

Thanks, stars15K!

I know why I like doing this - it's fun blowing off loons who never get A SINGLE THING right!