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Life After Death - Printable Version
ConCen
Life After Death - Printable Version

+- ConCen (https://concen.org/oldforum)
+-- Forum: Main (https://concen.org/oldforum/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: Religion, New Age & The Occult (https://concen.org/oldforum/forum-21.html)
+--- Thread: Life After Death (/thread-28529.html)

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8


Life After Death - sivle - 10-22-2006

Quote:people who believe in reincarnation probably believe that the spirits always existed and only decided to mass incarnate now. why ? because they can lol

Sounds just as plausable to me as a soul being "created" the moment the sperm meets the egg. If that bundle of cells got terminated, the soul in no way would have any spiritual understanding or merit to it without a prior existence with experience. It would be inferioir and devoid of anyting, empty. I don't think anyone's answered my question yet about what happens to the souls of unbaptized aborted feutus' and what the state of their spiritual evolution would be as well as their final destination. (keeping in mind limbo no longer esists according to the church)


Life After Death - Seithan - 10-22-2006

Quote:Where are all the souls coming from? Good question. You see, every living thing has some small spark from the source of all consiousness. Experience gained through multiple lifetimes is the means by which "the one consiousness experiences its self subjectively". So a soul begins as some tiny form of life, at the very beginings of consiousness, some beleive mineral, or bacterial life is this begining. After a number of incarnations in that form the spark grows larger, and gains the ability to inhabit a more complex physical form, which leads to a new and more diverse set of experiences, plant life. The continued progression of this should be rather obvious at this point. The Human creature is the "highest" form we are currently aware of, the physical and energy bodies of the human being being perfect micro-cosms of the universe its self. There is no such thing as regression in re-incarnation, once a level of growth is acheived, you cannot "go backwards". Of course, reincarnation is not limited to life on this planet either.;)
At the end of incarnations, the soul re-unites with the source, ceasing to exist for all intents and purposes as it is re-absorbed into the Bodhi Ocean.

OMG! is this new age evolutionary budhism? - this is to crazy for me man! - it would take me probably the rest of my life to debunk all of this nonsence:)
I dont want to be disrespectful (its really non of my bis what anyone belives) but how the heck did you came to that conclusion? Again not to be disrespectful but what have you been reading?:)- could you please elaborate on how you came to that conclusion (in a nuttshell)
I would however like to point that mankind is regresing! and if we get better and better with each incarnation then why the heck are things going worser and worser!:)

Quote:what happens to the souls of unbaptized aborted feutus
Same thing that happens to non baptized africans, indians, chinese, vikings, dinosaurs etc that lived a balanced life - they will be judged acordingly - in the day of judgement (dont confuse the bible teachings with the churches!)


Life After Death - DHammer - 10-22-2006

Quote:I would however like to point that manking is regresing! and if we get better and better with each incarnation then why the heck are things going worser and worser!

hmm all too true but they`d probably say that man is going trough a "dark age" which has about 65000 years cycle. The new age of aquarius will bring forth a golden age, or so they think.


Quote:OMG! is this new age evolutionary budhism?
hahah


Life After Death - deathstickboy - 10-22-2006

Quote:
Quote:Where are all the souls coming from? Good question. You see, every living thing has some small spark from the source of all consiousness. Experience gained through multiple lifetimes is the means by which "the one consiousness experiences its self subjectively". So a soul begins as some tiny form of life, at the very beginings of consiousness, some beleive mineral, or bacterial life is this begining. After a number of incarnations in that form the spark grows larger, and gains the ability to inhabit a more complex physical form, which leads to a new and more diverse set of experiences, plant life. The continued progression of this should be rather obvious at this point. The Human creature is the "highest" form we are currently aware of, the physical and energy bodies of the human being being perfect micro-cosms of the universe its self. There is no such thing as regression in re-incarnation, once a level of growth is acheived, you cannot "go backwards". Of course, reincarnation is not limited to life on this planet either.;)
At the end of incarnations, the soul re-unites with the source, ceasing to exist for all intents and purposes as it is re-absorbed into the Bodhi Ocean.

OMG! is this new age evolutionary budhism? - this is to crazy for me man! - it would take me probably the rest of my life to debunk all of this nonsence:)
I dont want to be disrespectful (its really non of my bis what anyone belives) but how the heck did you came to that conclusion? Again not to be disrespectful but what have you been reading?:)- could you please elaborate on how you came to that conclusion (in a nuttshell)
I would however like to point that mankind is regresing! and if we get better and better with each incarnation then why the heck are things going worser and worser!:)

No its not new age evolutionary buddhism.
How did I come to know this? Unusual Personal Gnosis, and extensive research. The basis of this angle on the concept actually has its roots in the Druidic concepts of reincarnation, at least as far as source material goes.

I meant the idea of regression, as in hinduism where you will reincarnate as an animal or something, relflective of the lifestyle you led. IOW once you acheive the ablity to inhabit a certain form, there is no "going backwards". Its not about "getting better" with each incarnation. That would be ideal of course, but its an individual process.
Its got nothing to do with astrology and the local problems of this planet.

I use buddhist terminology mostly because I find it to be the most effective when it comes to attempting to convey such concepts.

I welcome your attempts to "debunk" the concept, surely it should not take "a lifetime":rolleyes:

DHammer: why don't you just sit this one out, your self imposed ignorance prevents you from even considering anything other than your own pre-concieved notions, so discussing this with you would be waste of time, as have all previous correspondences we have had.


Life After Death - sivle - 10-22-2006

[quote name='Quetzalcoatl' date='Oct 22 2006, 11:45 AM' post='19087']
Quote:Same thing that happens to non baptized africans, indians, chinese, vikings, dinosaurs etc that lived a balanced life - they will be judged acordingly - in the day of judgement (dont confuse the bible teachings with the churches!)

I'm not sure what kind of judgement could be made on a soul that never lived, I wonder what it would be based on. I'm also interested in what the intelecutal state (for lack of a better term) of a soul that has zero experience in terms of language, morals, understanding etc. The christian view of afterlife has it's flaws as well. To me, reincarnation just seems to make more sense compared to the christian view.


Life After Death - DHammer - 10-22-2006

Quote:To me, reincarnation just seems to make more sense compared to the christian view.
exactly. everyone choses what makes sense for them, not that which is true.
deathstickboy Wrote:DHammer: why don't you just sit this one out, your self imposed ignorance prevents you from even considering anything other than your own pre-concieved notions, so discussing this with you would be waste of time, as have all previous correspondences we have had.

I will exercise my freedom on this forum as best as I see fit. If I was ignorant I would have watched the football match on TV right now.


Life After Death - deathstickboy - 10-22-2006

Quote:I will exercise my freedom on this forum as best as I see fit
I know, it was just a suggestion.

Quote:If I was ignorant I would have watched the football match on TV right now.
That statement makes no sense. Especially given that you are ignorant, and not watching the football match on tv.
:LOL:


Life After Death - DHammer - 10-22-2006

if I was ignorant about your views regarding reincarnation, I would have done something else. Does that make sense for you now ? even if I don't agree, i'm still interested to hear them.


Life After Death - deathstickboy - 10-22-2006

Alright, I was just being an asshole. My appolgies.


Life After Death - Seithan - 10-22-2006

I am not going to lie deathstickboy but i was into this stuff a long time ago (i am still interested in the old "religions"). The only sources that say there is no reicarnation are the two holy book's - the Bible and the Al-Quran (and the Torah - but thats the old testament in the bible) - all of the other religion support reicarnation (or are compatible). Now concerning reicarnation the religions of this world can be separated in two - the ones that have a creator god (the major monotheistic ones) dont support reicarnation and the others that have a lot of gods or none support reicarnation! Now we see that it all comes down to the elementary question (like almoust everything else) : Is there a (creator) God!

Now if i would try to "debunk" your theory deathstickboy i would first have to try to convince you there is a inteligent beeing (omnipotent omniscient etc) that created everything - If i would succed that then the rest of your theory would colapse since there is no abiogenesis, no macroevolution, no reicarnation and certanly no druidic teachings above God's! and i cant do that - i could copy paste you a hundred reasons and proofs that God exists but all in vain since only you alone can fiind Him! (this is my philosophy since i was an atheist most of my life and many tried to convince me that there is a God and didnt listen to them i sayid what do they know - i read Nietzsche and science magazine:)- i "know" there is no God ... but later i would "find" Him by myself)

All i can say is that "there are signs for the one who seeks them" and that we are living times of great deceit (but i know you know this) and that Satan (who is very proud that he made ppl not belive he exists) is the master of them!

Sivle the problem is a bit complicated - a child gets the breath of life (the holy spirit that animates a living organism - cell or human) when he is concived - but only gets a soul (a consciousness) later (just before being borned) Now if the child dies at birth - then he (on the day of judgement) will be reborned and live his life in the kingdome of heaven (all children that die at a young age will enter heaven) - this is the biblical view (my personal is a little more complex - but since is my perosonal i dont have anything to back it up but my "personal gnosis" )


Life After Death - deathstickboy - 10-22-2006

I'll start of by saying, that I was raised as a Luthern Christian, went to a christian school at our church from grades 3-6 where I memorized bible verses daily, and I was raised to a full memeber of the church and began teaching Sunday School to younger children at the age of 11.
So I am very familliar with that particular world view.

You can suck that big semetic mono-thesitic dick down your throat all you want, it doesn't matter to me. :LOL:

Quote:The only sources that say there is no reicarnation are the two holy book's - the Bible and the Al-Quran (and the Torah - but thats the old testament in the bible)
Actually it is arguable that the bible does infact support re-incarnation, John the Baptist was the reincarnation of Isaiah.


Quote:Now if i would try to "debunk" your theory deathstickboy i would first have to try to convince you there is a inteligent beeing (omnipotent omniscient etc) that created everything - If i would succed that then the rest of your theory would colapse since there is no abiogenesis, no macroevolution, no reicarnation and certanly no druidic teachings above God's!
That is because you buy the disgusting lie, that those teachings are "Gods Word" when they really are infact NOT. So "drudic teachings" are not above or below any others, however they do indeed reflect a more scientific approach when compared to "This book is the word of the Creator God, now convert or die!!"
:LOL:

I believe that God exists, just in a different way than you do. You see, the source of all consiossness is infact "God" for all intents and purposes. If you think it needs to write a book to make its self known, well you are lost.

My "Personal Gnosis" is actually based on a near death experience, so it is indeed "gnosis" rather than your intellectual acceptance of what amounts to a system of spiritual mind control, invented for the purpose of controlling the masses and keeping them as unaware of their own true nature as possible.


Life After Death - standvast - 10-22-2006

Tsoldrin Wrote:the problem I've always had with reincarnation... is the numbers. There is a ridiculously huge number of people alive today compared to just a few hundred years ago... going back thousands of years, the entire population of the world is less than are currently living in some large cities. So, where are all the 'new' people coming from? And if 'new' people are already being generated, why reincarnate old ones also? ;)

[this is my personal belief]
There is No increase, in the way i percieve it, there is everpresent energy
to inhabit all mass in and beyond our percievable universe. I am not in any
sense convinced that [though argueably supreme in cognitive capacity] humans are at
the pinnacle of evolved species, except in their own mind.
There is no regression, as being a stingray or a chameleon is no "lesser" incarnation than a human or a dolphin,
at least not lesser to any unbiased observer , only lesser to a dominating predator species.
I believe the cycles operate and fluctuate so spirit is casted and reclaimed to a current or
a process of flow with preservation of energy. Not all spirit is casted in matter,
a lot of energy flows freely, and isn't lost. That is why i believe caracters and thought-forms reoccur,
paterns re-emerge ,it is why we sense "development" or "evolution , and why history repeats itself.

Quetzalcoatl Wrote:OMG! is this new age evolutionary budhism? - this is to crazy for me man! - it would take me probably the rest of my life to debunk all of this nonsence smile.gif
I dont want to be disrespectful (its really non of my bis what anyone belives) but how the heck did you came to that conclusion? Again not to be disrespectful but what have you been reading? smile.gif - could you please elaborate on how you came to that conclusion (in a nuttshell)
I would however like to point that mankind is regresing! and if we get better and better with each incarnation then why the heck are things going worser and worser! smile.gif

Who told you we get "better by reincarnation"?
The idea within Buddhism is that if one remains attached to this plane and unfullfilled in a sense
of not willingly and peacably renunciating the realm of mattercasted spirit, one will return to it.
Most people are completely absolved by the material world, many will even fight
you to prove that there is nothing beyond the percieved material plane, how are we getting "better"?
In a Buddhist sense you could say those that got "better" have transcended but choose
to remain in this realm out of the motive of helping others to overcome samsara.
Some Buddhists believe the stages in samsara to be litteral, some believe them to be in the mind
of the man philosophising upon it.

Dhammer Wrote:exactly. everyone choses what makes sense for them, not that which is true.

everyone includes you , whether you "quote God" or not.:)

IMHO matter recycles through forms we can recognize, when we eat something we absorb
matter that was first a fish for instance, and become one with part of it, as our
body digests nutrients, in the same way our "dead" bodies and excrement are absorbed by the soil ,
the water and the air and other creature / plants.
This seems like a logical and understandable process to most people as
long as it deals with physical tangible matter. Energy is present in all the processes of
matter changing and becoming some"thing" else, the energy is everpresent.

quetzalcoatl Wrote:the Bible and the Al-Quran (and the Torah - but thats the old testament in the bible) - all of the other religion support reicarnation (or are compatible). Now concerning reicarnation the religions of this world can be separated in two - the ones that have a creator god (the major monotheistic ones) dont support reicarnation and the others that have a lot of gods or none support reicarnation! Now we see that it all comes down to the elementary question (like almoust everything else) : Is there a (creator) God!

No that is not true, there is no distinctive "split in two".
You see Hindu's generally believe Brahman shaped or is creator / creation.
there are plenty other deities, but one supreme and all pervasive, indistinguishable from creation itself.
Zoroastrianism states that the cosmic creation is the creator Ahura Mazda., the beginning and the end of
creation being consumed in dualism. When Hebrews of old came out of "babylon" , they took a lot
of Old Persian beliefs and symbolism with them.

peace'
standvast.


Life After Death - Seithan - 10-22-2006

Quote:You can suck that big semetic mono-thesitic dick down your throat all you want, it doesn't matter to me

Thats a bit harsh:)my belifes are not "semitic" (since i belive in the bible - and the jews dont -the new testament at least ) and for the monotheistic part well -
Quote:I believe that God exists
- you are monotheistic to:)

It does not matter that you read the bible when you where 11:)- the bible is a "hard" book not for little children since its heavly metaphoric and interpretable (at least it seams interpretable for the (ignorant) churches thats why whe have so many christian churches - when in fact God is very clear)

Quote:Actually it is arguable that the bible does infact support re-incarnation, John the Baptist was the reincarnation of Isaiah.
Ok now this is crazy talk:)- show me where this is sayid! (in the bible! not in some crazy sect doctrine)

Quote:This book is the word of the Creator God, now convert or die

I think this is inquisition doctrine not biblical:)

Quote:If you think it needs to write a book to make its self known, well you are lost.

Well there are many types of ppl (and ofc God knew that) so thats why his laws/actions/and other things that he wanted mantioned was given to ppl so that all types of ppl could know them - now we are build so to "know this" a priori - just like you fell that kiling is wrong - just like you fell the guilt when you do something wrong - But the book is there so that the insensible and ignorant one cant say that they didnt have a clear source about God! (so when God will judges you deathstickboy - you cant say that well how the heck should i supose to know you exist:) )

Quote:My "Personal Gnosis" is actually based on a near death experience

NDE - are a bit more complicated and i dont think you are ready for the answer (you cant handle the truth:))

Quote:system of spiritual mind control

I agree on this one - the church is a system of spiritual mind control:)


Life After Death - DHammer - 10-22-2006

Quote:IMHO matter recycles through forms we can recognize, when we eat something we absorb
matter that was first a fish for instance, and become one with part of it, as our
body digests nutrients, in the same way our "dead" bodies and excrement are absorbed by the soil ,
the water and the air and other creature / plants.

yeah, God says something similar to what you wrote: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. As you said it seems logical as long as we refer only to the material realm.


Quote:everyone includes you
almost everyone :P


Life After Death - Seithan - 10-22-2006

Allways good to hear from you standvast - Well i did specify "major monotheistic ones" - but ahura mazda from what i remember is not a single being like the christian God - its a group of good divinities - but it really dosent matter since most of this philosophies are Satans - the master of lies (this is not an insult to your belives just the christian view of this religions - whitch i curently am part of)

iep checked the info about mazda on wikipedia (for lack of time) and he is a bit more complicated -

Ahura denotes the class of the 'right' divinities (as opposed to the daevas, the 'wrong' divinities)

Scholarly consensus identifies a connection to the prototypical *vouruna and *mitra, but whether Ahura Mazda is one of these two, or both together, or even a superior of the two has not been conclusively established.