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Illuminati - Friend Or Foe? - blighter - 12-06-2006

Have been reading this forum for some time now and I have to say I'm honestly surprised how an ancient christian conspiracy is so popular here. I have read snippets of a few illuminist philosophers and I can see how pertinent their opinions are regarding religion and government, of which I agree.

It is of my opinion that illuminist philosophy is moral, I can't see how the new world order is presented as an illuminati plan for complete control of the planet and population control.

I just wanted to know the general concensus from all members.

@admin, could you please start a poll for this topic? For some reason I can't. Thanks


blighter


Illuminati - Friend Or Foe? - NewTrruthseeker - 12-06-2006

I am wondering about this myself, they seem to have "good morals" in their teachings don't they? I haven't read much though.

The thing is, that the lower grades don't know shit about what the illuminati elitists on top believe in and what their agenda is, and this is the mass majority of the illuminati. I recon the teachings we normal people have access to does not reveal the beliefs of the higher grades.

I think that maybe if we had some of their knowledge, we could do many good things with it, but off course they use this knowledge against us to control us. It's like with money, you can do good or bad things with it.

I think though, that these people are also being manipulated while at the same time gaining true knowledge. Manipulated into becoming sick people with sick minds.

But, I don't know.... it's hard to talk about this on here, because I never know when I might be called a satanist by these fanatic christians on concen, lol


Illuminati - Friend Or Foe? - blighter - 12-06-2006

Quote:I am wondering about this myself, they seem to have "good morals" in their teachings don't they? I haven't read much though.

The thing is, that the lower grades don't know shit about what the illuminati elitists on top believe in and what their agenda is, and this is the mass majority of the illuminati. I recon the teachings we normal people have access to does not reveal the beliefs of the higher grades.

I think that maybe if we had some of their knowledge, we could do many good things with it, but off course they use this knowledge against us to control us. It's like with money, you can do good or bad things with it.

I think though, that these people are also being manipulated while at the same time gaining true knowledge. Manipulated into becoming sick people with sick minds.

But, I don't know.... it's hard to talk about this on here, because I never know when I might be called a satanist by these fanatic christians on concen, lol

From what I've seen, this seems like a false flag operation to keep the christian conspiracy alive. After all, illuminism illustrated the poor management and abuse of religion and government. The church in their infinite wisdom would have to counter this philosophy and heresy by claiming that illuminism is the work of satan, as a means of ingenious damage control and counteraction. I've not seen any direct evidence that points to the illuminati being the monsters that is being portrayed, only hearsay.


Illuminati - Friend Or Foe? - deathstickboy - 12-06-2006

Who are you talking about when you say "Illuminati"?

Its a word that gets thrown around alot but its been warped from its original meaning in the first place.

Are you talking about the "Bavarian Illuminati" started by Adam Wieshaupt?

Historically speaking, if the Jacobin Faction in the French Revolution (the one supported and organized by Freemasons) who eventually put Napoleon in power, turned out just as bad, if not worse than the monarchs they were fighting.

At the very best, they have turned out in every case to be nothing more than just another faction vying for power over peoples hearts and minds, and in no signifigant way different than "christian" tyrants.

But why don't you go back and explain exactly who you mean by "illuminati"?


Illuminati - Friend Or Foe? - SerialExpLain - 12-06-2006

Friend?????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-WyFpkSOVA

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5...tivity+training


Illuminati - Friend Or Foe? - blighter - 12-07-2006

Deathstickboy - foe

SerialExplain - foe

NewTruthSeeker - foe

Anyone else?


Illuminati - Friend Or Foe? - blighter - 12-07-2006

Quote:Who are you talking about when you say "Illuminati"?

Its a word that gets thrown around alot but its been warped from its original meaning in the first place.

Are you talking about the "Bavarian Illuminati" started by Adam Wieshaupt?

Historically speaking, if the Jacobin Faction in the French Revolution (the one supported and organized by Freemasons) who eventually put Napoleon in power, turned out just as bad, if not worse than the monarchs they were fighting.

At the very best, they have turned out in every case to be nothing more than just another faction vying for power over peoples hearts and minds, and in no signifigant way different than "christian" tyrants.

But why don't you go back and explain exactly who you mean by "illuminati"?
Who do you think of when 'illuminati' is repeated time and time again?

Does it not offend you when someone suggests that enlightenment is evil? How do these conspiracies start then mould themselves into the present day propaganda? All I see is fear-mongering at the highest level.


Illuminati - Friend Or Foe? - NewTrruthseeker - 12-07-2006

Well it's obvious, their keeping their knowledge secret so that they can control us with it.

The top elete is illuminati freemasons, and THEY are fear mongering, creating wars, and controlling/manipulating us in endless different ways.

Have you not read anything about this?

Just the fact that they keep their knowledge secret from the public should make you suspicious. They will KILL any whistleblower.


Illuminati - Friend Or Foe? - deathstickboy - 12-07-2006

Quote:
Quote:Who are you talking about when you say "Illuminati"?

Its a word that gets thrown around alot but its been warped from its original meaning in the first place.

Are you talking about the "Bavarian Illuminati" started by Adam Wieshaupt?

Historically speaking, if the Jacobin Faction in the French Revolution (the one supported and organized by Freemasons) who eventually put Napoleon in power, turned out just as bad, if not worse than the monarchs they were fighting.

At the very best, they have turned out in every case to be nothing more than just another faction vying for power over peoples hearts and minds, and in no signifigant way different than "christian" tyrants.

But why don't you go back and explain exactly who you mean by "illuminati"?
Who do you think of when 'illuminati' is repeated time and time again?

Does it not offend you when someone suggests that enlightenment is evil? How do these conspiracies start then mould themselves into the present day propaganda? All I see is fear-mongering at the highest level.
"enlightenment" means different things to different people.
By definition of the word Jesus could be considered "Illuminati".
The "illuminated ones" or ascended masters who claim to know whats best for humanity, are no better than any other group of clergymen. How can you imagine that they are?

I also find it rather annoying that you would choose to simply describe my position as "foe" without addressing any of the questions I raised.


Illuminati - Friend Or Foe? - Rothbardian_Freedom_Lover - 12-07-2006

My position differs depending on WHICH Illuminati you are talking about

The ones of the first French Enlightenment (Frederic Bastiat and the like) were good. They did not refer to themselves as Illuminati (this term didn't come up until I believe the SECOND French Enlightenment), but they created some of the illuminist doctrine that you hear of. These men were intellectual warriors for liberty.

Then the Scottish Enlightenment. Again, a force of good. John Locke and the like. If you consider these men bad, you would have to be insane. John Locke was the father of natural rights theory, and of individual liberty. He would probably fight the modern illuminati to the death.

Then, enter a rat. The second French Enlightenment, directly before the French Revolution. THIS was where the hidden doctrine practice started. These men conned the people, got them all excited for the revolution, and then betrayed their countrymen once they got to power.

The modern Illuminati is most similar to that of the second French Enlightenment.


Illuminati - Friend Or Foe? - blighter - 12-07-2006

Quote:"enlightenment" means different things to different people.
By definition of the word Jesus could be considered "Illuminati".
The "illuminated ones" or ascended masters who claim to know whats best for humanity, are no better than any other group of clergymen. How can you imagine that they are?

I also find it rather annoying that you would choose to simply describe my position as "foe" without addressing any of the questions I raised.
There are a lot of people who claim to know what's best for humanity, I agree. What I find difficult is to label those who would enslave us as enlightened or as the illuminati. Surely those with an enlightened philosophy would behave in a slightly different manner other than commit bloodshed, have pathetic mock sacrifices and enslave mankind? There's absolutely no proof of their involvement, in my opinion. It's just another charade designed to distract and divert blame onto someone else.

I'm sorry if you find it rather annoying, maybe if you commit an answer to the topic title we might commence some sort of constructive dialogue.


Illuminati - Friend Or Foe? - blighter - 12-07-2006

Quote:Then, enter a rat. The second French Enlightenment, directly before the French Revolution. THIS was where the hidden doctrine practice started. These men conned the people, got them all excited for the revolution, and then betrayed their countrymen once they got to power.

The modern Illuminati is most similar to that of the second French Enlightenment.
What sort of evidence is there to support there being a hidden doctrine, RFL? I agree the french got conned, but then again you can say the same of the americans when they got rid of the british.


Illuminati - Friend Or Foe? - deathstickboy - 12-07-2006

Quote:
Quote:"enlightenment" means different things to different people.
By definition of the word Jesus could be considered "Illuminati".
The "illuminated ones" or ascended masters who claim to know whats best for humanity, are no better than any other group of clergymen. How can you imagine that they are?

I also find it rather annoying that you would choose to simply describe my position as "foe" without addressing any of the questions I raised.
There are a lot of people who claim to know what's best for humanity, I agree. What I find difficult is to label those who would enslave us as enlightened or as the illuminati. Surely those with an enlightened philosophy would behave in a slightly different manner other than commit bloodshed, have pathetic mock sacrifices and enslave mankind? There's absolutely no proof of their involvement, in my opinion. It's just another charade designed to distract and divert blame onto someone else.

I'm sorry if you find it rather annoying, maybe if you commit an answer to the topic title we might commence some sort of constructive dialogue.

Well who today are the "true" Illuminati then? I would agreee that:
Quote:Surely those with an enlightened philosophy would behave in a slightly different manner other than commit bloodshed, have pathetic mock sacrifices and enslave mankind
But the people who are doing that, who are running the show, do consider themselves to be "illuminated" compared to the masses. When you say the word "illuminati" most people think about Skull and Bones and other such organizations, because the word its self no longer is used in the original context.

Then again, "enlightenment" means different things to different people. For all you know these people could simply consider themselves the "guardian class" of humanity, and they only do the evil murderous things they do because they think they have to in order to manage our population, and so on, and keep us in check and under control for our own good, because they are "enlightened".

You STILL fail to tell me exactly WHO you are talking about when you say "Illuminati".
Who are you talking about? If you don't mean the current crop of NWO power mongers (which is who most people are talking about when they use the term) then who are you describing?

Maybe if I knew that I could make some judgement as to weather or not they might be considered a foe.


Illuminati - Friend Or Foe? - NewTrruthseeker - 12-08-2006

They are illuminated with knowledge and through knowledge probably how they can manipulate reality. I think they probably know deep astrology and how this affects us on earth and they're taking advantage of it. Just like they use this Knowledge to enslave us, we could use tis Knowledge to do good. But of course, they keep their most precious knowledge hidden from us so we can't do that.

I think maybe that this knowledge gets really bizarre on the highest levels. Maybe about interdimensional enteties, and they worship these enteties, and they let them selves get posessed by these enteties. Because these enteties created the orders to begin with, in ancient ancient times, they've just changed names and form. This theory would make sense of alot of things, like for example why would they, if they were only human, through the ages, just play a tiny part in a game to pull the NWO through if they're not going to live and see it? Well if these enteties live for thousands of years or are even immortal and can decide themselves when they die, they create these orders and these bloodlines (who are more compatible with these enteties because of interbreeding), and the ones that join these orders probably have no idea of these enteties at the bottom level, but as they go through the order, being conditioned and probably also manipulated this knowledge will come to them. The elete is obsessed with interbreeding, since ancient times, you can track back the ruling elete, and they have always been the ruling elete. These bloodlines would have more of these eneties DNA in them and so easier to manipulate and even possess.

Now, this theory is bizarre. But let's say that this WAS the truth and that we KNEW this to be true. How would this affect us? Well, we would have to ask questions like why? Why are we so important? Ah, we are incredibly significant and important, we just don't know.

Sorry if you guys thought I went abit of topic here.


Illuminati - Friend Or Foe? - deathstickboy - 12-08-2006

nah, I think you are right on NTS. :biggrin: